A great book! on liver cleansing

[Guest guest]

Just my two cents, but from looking at the size of those stones in

comparison to the size of our bile ducts is what makes me doubt very much

that those came from the liver in that size and form. Certainly they came

and were formed from somewhere, but how is it verified that it came from the

liver? Gravel sized stones would make more sense to me than those huge

boulder-like things that look like they would just bust the bile ducts

trying to squeeze through. Or even if they were that size in the liver, it

would seem that they would have to breakdown so that they could be passed

through the ducts safely. So it's not completely what the stones are made

of (saponified or crystalline) that convince me that they come from the

liver or not, but just the sizes and mechanics of it doesn't seem right that

they could even pass through the bile ducts like that without damage. Also

one stone in there not causing any major blockage seems amazing enough (I

know that tumor growths often cause bleeding as they grow rupturing blood

vessels as their size increases), thus I just can't imagine having dozens of

stones as some claim (many in those large sizes) and not causing any

discomfort or pain or other major blockages in the liver. Some claim that

organs (such as the liver) don't feel pain, but others do claim liver pain,

which has been attributed in part to swelling or stretching in diseased

livers, which I would think would have to happen if a huge stone were to

push it's way through a smaller sized tube. But we do know that stool can

easily pass in those sizes and they aren't formed in the liver. Leads me to

feel that those stones also were not formed or lodged in the liver.

As an aside, I've had three babies and believe you me, they were all painful

to pass even through an orifice that was meant (designed) to pass babies.

Women have commonly ripped passing babies vaginally, which ordinarily could

accommodate passing babies. I don't think the bile ducts were designed to

pass stones that large and to do it painlessly without tearing? It's like

trying to squeeze a walnut out of your nostril. Would be painful and

difficult even with a bottle of vaseline.

Just my two cents.

Marla

-- Re: A great book! on liver cleansing

Well, I beg to differ because a fella I know passed many stones and

he was so proud he collected them; his wife, who is a nurse, brought

them over to show me. They were not saponified oil but crystalline

like the ones in the photos on Curezone. This observation is nothing

like a leap of faith, and I could not predict that a person " would "

be in agony while passing them because he indicated he had no pain.

Believe what you will, sol, but this generally follows the experience

of many people, some of whom are on this very list.

Duncan

> >

> >> Yes, the lumps are " soapstones " or saponified/crystallized matter

> >> created by the ingredients of the cleanse. Most of the research

that

> >>

> > I

> >

> >> have read indicates that stones above 1cm in size can not be

passed

> >>

> > at

> >

> >> home.

> >>

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

People

I do the cleanses and stones come out...I can feel them a bit bit it

does not hurt.

I have had stones come out just a few days ago that I thought could

not get out but they did...that is even without the oil.

Remember the body is a fine machine and what we think is often times a

bit different then what is real!

Just look at a baby's size and what avenue they come from. I could

not believe it until I had two children.

The stones are real and they do come out. The most important thing is

they come out whatever they are. The way's that make them come out

are all listed, make YOUR choice.

Personally, I will do the apple juice to soften the stones/stuff a bit

It works every time.

NieeMA

> > >

> > >> Yes, the lumps are " soapstones " or saponified/crystallized matter

> > >> created by the ingredients of the cleanse. Most of the research

> that

> > >>

> > > I

> > >

> > >> have read indicates that stones above 1cm in size can not be

> passed

> > >>

> > > at

> > >

> > >> home.

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Curezone is a wonderful place to do your research. Not all things

posted there are true, but it will make you think and look into things.

Curezone kills less people then Dr.'s do each year...as a matter of

fact, I have not heard of one person dying for the information given

there.

On Curezone, people do not go quietly into that good night, they kick

and shake the tree to see if what falls out can help them heal!!!

So, for those of you that do not trust...do you own research there

like you should do here.

Get well!

> >

> >> Yes, the lumps are " soapstones " or saponified/crystallized matter

> >> created by the ingredients of the cleanse. Most of the research that

> >>

> > I

> >

> >> have read indicates that stones above 1cm in size can not be passed

> >>

> > at

> >

> >> home.

> >>

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hello Nieema:

With all due respect, I don't think anyone is doubting that stones are

formed and come out. We all know that kidney stones are real, and we all

know how painful they can be as them move around and are passed. Gallstones

are also real, but generally have to be surgically removed, or as in the

case described in Norman 's book, IIRC, was very painful to pass after

being broken down with lemon juice and all so that what passed as more of a

gravelly sludge. I've heard guys claim that the pain associated with kidney

stones and their passing was probably worse than childbirth. However, with

regards to these liver stones, I think the issue is whether those particular

types of stones shown on curezone are formed by the ingredients used for the

liver flush itself, and thus would not be stones like that at all had not

those ingredients been ingested. What I think some of us are wondering is

if those stones were just formed as a combination of those ingested

ingredients and not at all anything that was lodged or formed in the liver

originally. Certainly, I would rather have them out than in no matter what

they are, but if we didn't put them in there with those liver flush

ingredients in the first place, then they might not ever have been in there

to start with. This is not to say that I know for sure that those

ingredients cause those stones, but only that from the given specifics from

the stories we hear and sites like curezone, it sounds very dubious that

those are actual liver stones, although stones nonetheless. I hope that

helps to share this point of view.

Respectfully,

Marla

-- Re: A great book! on liver cleansing

People

I do the cleanses and stones come out...I can feel them a bit bit it

does not hurt.

I have had stones come out just a few days ago that I thought could

not get out but they did...that is even without the oil.

Remember the body is a fine machine and what we think is often times a

bit different then what is real!

Just look at a baby's size and what avenue they come from. I could

not believe it until I had two children.

The stones are real and they do come out. The most important thing is

they come out whatever they are. The way's that make them come out

are all listed, make YOUR choice.

Personally, I will do the apple juice to soften the stones/stuff a bit

It works every time.

NieeMA

> > >

> > >> Yes, the lumps are " soapstones " or saponified/crystallized matter

> > >> created by the ingredients of the cleanse. Most of the research

> that

> > >>

> > > I

> > >

> > >> have read indicates that stones above 1cm in size can not be

> passed

> > >>

> > > at

> > >

> > >> home.

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I'm wondering though, since several different flushes exist with different

ingredients, why would they be created the same way with different or missing

ingredients? The main thing here is that magnesium is a laxative, so it's

definitely going to make something come out.

Luv,

Debby in San , CA

147 pounds lost! 100% of health issues reversed!

Currently studying for Nutrition license and PhD in Psychology

Group: curingcandida/

Website: http://www.naturallythriving.com

----- Original Message ----

> From: marla

> if those stones were just formed as a combination of those ingested

> ingredients and not at all anything that was lodged or formed in the liver

> originally. Certainly, I would rather have them out than in no matter what

> they are, but if we didn't put them in there with those liver flush

> ingredients in the first place, then they might not ever have been in there

> to start with. This is not to say that I know for sure that those

> ingredients cause those stones, but only that from the given specifics from

[Guest guest]

Since I also am not at all convinced that the stones are anything other

than artifacts formed from what is ingested during the cleanse there is

no way I want to try any one of them.

YMMV of course, but these deals are way too harsh for me even if they

were really removing actual calcified/crystalline stones, of which I'm

still not convinced. Perhaps some crystallization of the flush

ingredients takes place and the saponification takes place around those

" seeds " . At any rate, I have a family member who had actual gallstones

in his actual gallbladder, so that is one point of reference I have, as

well as having known another person with gallstones. Both required

surgery. I just cannot believe this type of stone is being passed with

little to no pain.

sorry, I remain a total skeptic,

sol

> ----- Original Message ----

>

>> From: marla: if those stones were just formed as a combination of those

ingested

>> ingredients and not at all anything that was lodged or formed in the liver

>> originally. Certainly, I would rather have them out than in no matter what

>> they are, but if we didn't put them in there with those liver flush

>> ingredients in the first place, then they might not ever have been in there

>> to start with.

[Guest guest]

I am also a skeptic, but a person I trust who is a naturopath claims they

are real. Still--to me this type of flush is far too harsh. I much prefer

the simple, easy 5 day Dr. Schulze flush. Yes, it costs more money, but it

cleans the liver and gallbladder in a much healthier way. For people that

know they have stones there is another herb that can be added to his herbal

mix that is suppose to dissolve stones rather than just force you to pass

them.

It's amazing to me all the " stones " these people get with that over night

flush. Many years ago my Mom had to have her gallbladder taken out. The

doctor presented her with almost 100 stones, of various sizes ranging from

tiny, tiny pieces to ones about pea size. They were jade green. He said

the reason he gave her the stones is because this was the MOST he had ever

seen in all his years of surgeries on gallbladders. So when these people go

on and on about the hundreds of stones they get out, I'm thinking it must be

something else besides real gall stones.

Samala,

-------Original Message-------

Since I also am not at all convinced that the stones are anything other

than artifacts formed from what is ingested during the cleanse there is

no way I want to try any one of them.