Guest guest Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 we give our pts 1 hour lunch half, 30 minutes of doc time and 30 min of lunch, we only pay them for 30 min. that is in Iowa not sure what Pa laws state? To: PTManager@...: thorter@...: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 08:56:31 -0500Subject: paid lunch? Group,How much lunch/break time is everyone giving to a PT employee for lunch and break time in an 8 hr day? Are you paying for lunch time? I am told that legally break time must be 15 min for every 4 hrs worked in Pa which must be paid I believe but I am not hearing that PTs are actually getting that downtime. So, can that translate to a 1/2 hr paid lunch at least if the time is lumped together? Are you expecting PTs to do paperwork while eating their lunch in order to get paid for the time but not pay them if they leave the premises?I would appreciate others solutions and the rationale behind it. Thanks, Horter, PT Horter Physical TherapyRosemont, Pa 19010[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _________________________________________________________________ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_122007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 > > >A few questions. Are they salary? Are they professionals? If they are salary, and professionals, and take their job of delivering patient care seriously then they have a responsibility to do what it takes to get the job done and documented. Yes a 1 hour lunch is a nice thing to have, but it is a nice perk, but not necessary in a busy facilty. Do you believe that your referral sources ask these questions of their employer? If we PT's, continue to ask these types of questions, I have to ask, are we really the professionals we really think we are? Professionals are professional more than 40 hours per week with 1 hour lunches. Professionals do what it takes, when necessary, to get the job done. Patient care and documentation included. Thank you for your time Roll PT, OCS, FAAOMPT Ocean Springs, MS. clinic owner/therapist we give our pts 1 hour lunch half, 30 minutes of doc time and 30 min of lunch, we only pay them for 30 min. that is in Iowa not sure what Pa laws state? > > > To: PTManager@...: thorter@...: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 08:56:31 - 0500Subject: paid lunch? > > > > > Group,How much lunch/break time is everyone giving to a PT employee for lunch and break time in an 8 hr day? Are you paying for lunch time? I am told that legally break time must be 15 min for every 4 hrs worked in Pa which must be paid I believe but I am not hearing that PTs are actually getting that downtime. So, can that translate to a 1/2 hr paid lunch at least if the time is lumped together? Are you expecting PTs to do paperwork while eating their lunch in order to get paid for the time but not pay them if they leave the premises? I would appreciate others solutions and the rationale behind it. Thanks, Horter, PT Horter Physical TherapyRosemont, Pa 19010[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. > http://www.windowslive.com/share.html? ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_122007 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 My understanding is that it is dependent on their job classification as exempt or non-exempt. If they are exempt they are paid a set amount regardless of the number of hours worked and lunch/breaks taken. If they are non-exempt, and they have less than 20 minutes uninterrupted with work duties then you must pay them the 30 minute lunch. However, I don't believe break time is mandatory by wage and labor law - it is optional. Tomazich, PT Physical Therapy Director UPMC Passavant /UPMC Passavant Cranberry <http://passavant.upmc.com/> FAX: " Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. " Any unauthorized or improper disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this e-mail or attached documents is prohibited. The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete the original message. _____ From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of jeff nolder Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:26 PM To: ptmanager Subject: RE: paid lunch? we give our pts 1 hour lunch half, 30 minutes of doc time and 30 min of lunch, we only pay them for 30 min. that is in Iowa not sure what Pa laws state? To: PTManager@... <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.comFrom> : thorter@... <mailto:thorter%40mindspring.comDate> : Thu, 3 Jan 2008 08:56:31 -0500Subject: paid lunch? Group,How much lunch/break time is everyone giving to a PT employee for lunch and break time in an 8 hr day? Are you paying for lunch time? I am told that legally break time must be 15 min for every 4 hrs worked in Pa which must be paid I believe but I am not hearing that PTs are actually getting that downtime. So, can that translate to a 1/2 hr paid lunch at least if the time is lumped together? Are you expecting PTs to do paperwork while eating their lunch in order to get paid for the time but not pay them if they leave the premises?I would appreciate others solutions and the rationale behind it. Thanks, Horter, PT Horter Physical TherapyRosemont, Pa 19010[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________________ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_122 007 <http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_12 2007> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Thank you for your answers about this. I forgot to say that I also have a PT who works 32 hrs a week so is hourly. Is she considered non-exempt now because of the hourly status or still exempt as full-time PTs are? Is a PT always exempt no matter what the hours are worked? If non-exempt then based on someone else's PA law response I need to pay her the 30 min lunch because she has no other uninterrupted time during the day. If exempt then it is my choice? Horter, PT Horter Physical Therapy Rosemont, Pa thorter@... paid lunch? Group,How much lunch/break time is everyone giving to a PT employee for lunch and break time in an 8 hr day? Are you paying for lunch time? I am told that legally break time must be 15 min for every 4 hrs worked in Pa which must be paid I believe but I am not hearing that PTs are actually getting that downtime. So, can that translate to a 1/2 hr paid lunch at least if the time is lumped together? Are you expecting PTs to do paperwork while eating their lunch in order to get paid for the time but not pay them if they leave the premises?I would appreciate others solutions and the rationale behind it. Thanks, Horter, PT Horter Physical TherapyRosemont, Pa 19010[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________________ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_122 007 <http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_12 2007> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 , There have been many replies to your original email. I would refer you first to this web site about the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) as that is the federal law that deals directly with your question --> http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/hrg.htm. This site is a good tool to learn more about this act, as it covers classifying staff as exempt or non-exempt, when overtime pay is required, etc. Another good thing to know is what is NOT required by the FLSA. Below is copied/pasted from the Department of Labor website: " For example, FLSA does not require: - vacation, holiday, severance, or sick pay; - meal or rest periods, holidays off, or vacations; - premium pay for weekend or holiday work; - pay raises or fringe benefits; or - a discharge notice, reason for discharge, or immediate payment of final wages to terminated employees. " As you can see, lunch breaks and other breaks during the day are NOT required by federal law. There is a common misperception that the FLSA requires us to provide breaks. It does not. However, if your staff are hourly and if they work over their breaks, then we must pay them for their time. Essentially, the FLSA requires us to pay people when they are engaged in work activities if they are hourly. If staff are exempt (salaried), then the set period is what they are paid for (e.g., 40 hours per week) no matter whether they work 20 hours or they work 60 hours. PT's can be classified as either exempt or non-exempt (salaried or hourly) and each has its advantages and disadvantages. If you need help with that I suggest you contact your legal counsel as they should be able to assist you as you want to be sure you doing everything correctly in how you are classifying your staff.. Lastly, the info above applies to the federal labor law (FLSA). Pennsylvania may have more restrictive laws (I don't know) so I suggest that you contact your legal counsel and seek their advice about whether FLSA is the standard you need to follow or if you have other state laws that have other restrictions. Mark Dwyer, PT, MHA Olathe, Kansas markdwyer87@... > > Group, > > How much lunch/break time is everyone giving to a PT employee for lunch and break time in an 8 hr day? Are you paying for lunch time? I am told that legally break time must be 15 min for every 4 hrs worked in Pa which must be paid I believe but I am not hearing that PTs are actually getting that downtime. So, can that translate to a 1/2 hr paid lunch at least if the time is lumped together? Are you expecting PTs to do paperwork while eating their lunch in order to get paid for the time but not pay them if they leave the premises?I would appreciate others solutions and the rationale behind it. > > Thanks, > Horter, PT > Horter Physical Therapy > Rosemont, Pa 19010 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 , Just a few thoughts. Since your full timers are salaried/exempt (I assume from your second post) your are generally correct that the lunch is " up to you " . State Wage and Hour laws typically apply only to hourly/non exempt employees. And while I agree with many of the other posters, I assert that the manner in which a person is paid (salaried vs. hourly) is not what makes him/her a professional. No offense to (I agree with your position overall), but I respectfully disagree that " asking these types of questions " implies PTs are not professional - finding the right answers to these types of questions is what makes one a professional. On another note, I believe you will find that you can legally make your 32-hour-per-week employee salaried at that level (i.e. pay him/her 75% of what a 40-hour-per-week person would make with his/her experience etc.) and handle the lunch the same for everyone - please check with the State of PA and your HR person . To expand on another of ' points that I strongly agree with - " Professionals do what it takes, when necessary, to get the job done. Patient care and documentation included. " - I might suggest that you give the salaried PTs a productivity target per day (not tied to hours because they are salaried) that they are all expected to meet and let them figure out how much time they get for lunch and everything else that goes along with that type of model ... (when they get get lunch or other breaks, when their patients are scheduled and for how long, how their patients are covered when they are off ....). My 2 cents. Trumbull, PT, MBA Bloomington, IL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Roll, you rock! que the orthopedic surgeon, " I am sorry sir, we have to stop your surgery now so that I can have my regularly scheduled lunch and paperwork time " As I have said many, many times, we as a profession can not have things both ways. If we are going to come out of school as Doctor's of Physical Therapy and request salaries upwards of 60k/year we are going to have to earn it. We need to end the employee/employer mentality now! We need to accept the professional responsiblity to meet the needs of our clients, if we do this consistently and make the companies we work with a profit than we should have the expectation that we will be allowed a share of that profit, if we continue to do this successfully and we so desire than we should have the expectation that some form of partnership will follow. We cannot expect partnership opportunities and profit sharing without also expecting to share in the work and the risk and in the upward mobility of the profession through work with our professional association. E. s, PT, DPT, OCS, FAAOMPT www.douglasspt.com > > > > > >A few questions. > Are they salary? > Are they professionals? > > If they are salary, and professionals, and take their job of > delivering patient care seriously then they have a responsibility to > do what it takes to get the job done and documented. Yes a 1 hour > lunch is a nice thing to have, but it is a nice perk, but not > necessary in a busy facilty. > > Do you believe that your referral sources ask these questions of > their employer? > > If we PT's, continue to ask these types of questions, I have to ask, > are we really the professionals we really think we are? Professionals > are professional more than 40 hours per week with 1 hour lunches. > > Professionals do what it takes, when necessary, to get the job done. > Patient care and documentation included. > > Thank you for your time > > Roll PT, OCS, FAAOMPT > Ocean Springs, MS. > clinic owner/therapist > > we give our pts 1 hour lunch half, 30 minutes of doc time and 30 min > of lunch, we only pay them for 30 min. that is in Iowa not sure what > Pa laws state? > > > > > > To: PTManager@: thorter@: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 08:56:31 - > 0500Subject: paid lunch? > > > > > > > > > > Group,How much lunch/break time is everyone giving to a PT employee > for lunch and break time in an 8 hr day? Are you paying for lunch > time? I am told that legally break time must be 15 min for every 4 > hrs worked in Pa which must be paid I believe but I am not hearing > that PTs are actually getting that downtime. So, can that translate > to a 1/2 hr paid lunch at least if the time is lumped together? Are > you expecting PTs to do paperwork while eating their lunch in order > to get paid for the time but not pay them if they leave the premises? > I would appreciate others solutions and the rationale behind it. > Thanks, Horter, PT Horter Physical TherapyRosemont, Pa > 19010[Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. > > http://www.windowslive.com/share.html? > ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_122007 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Hello Group, I really do not see much that is appropriate in this response. I specifically have difficulty with the following: 1- I don't understand how mixing metaphors to rationalize your argument is of any benefit. The surgeon gets paid for that procedure, the procedures are scheduled with in advance and the surgeon can (and does)adjust his/her schedule for such events., 2- Why would anyone have such expectations as you put forth unless that was in prior agreement with mutual stipulations as what requirements need to be met to become a partner or have profit sharing. I think that is why some places do these things and others do not., and 3- The overall demeanor sounds to me more like a sweat shop than a professional setting. It makes me wonder when you would start saying that bath room breaks are taken out of the paycheck as well. Mmm, maybe you already have. 4- Well there are other things that could be commented, but I’m stopping at this point. The original question seems to be just to determine a norm for lunch and work breaks within the outpatient setting. Some responses have made it interesting reading though. I actuality, these things can and are used by many as recruitment and retention incentives and not points of diversion into self serving diatribe. It really has nothing to do with whether someone is “professional” or not. So, if it makes good business sense to offer these benefits to employment at your facility Ms Horter, then by all means do so. To me it doesn’t seem to unrealistic for someone that is an income generator with your practice. Respectfully, Don, PT Michigan s wrote: Roll, you rock! que the orthopedic surgeon, " I am sorry sir, we have to stop your surgery now so that I can have my regularly scheduled lunch and paperwork time " . As I have said many, many times, we as a profession can not have things both ways. If we are going to come out of school as Doctor's of Physical Therapy and request salaries upwards of 60k/year we are going to have to earn it. We need to end the employee/employer mentality now! We need to accept the professional responsiblity to meet the needs of our clients, if we do this consistently and make the companies we work with a profit than we should have the expectation that we will be allowed a share of that profit, if we continue to do this successfully and we so desire than we should have the expectation that some form of partnership will follow. We cannot expect partnership opportunities and profit sharing without also expecting to share in the work and the risk and in the upward mobility of the profession through work with our professional association. E. s, PT, DPT, OCS, FAAOMPT www.douglasspt.com A few questions. Are they salary? Are they professionals? If they are salary, and professionals, and take their job of delivering patient care seriously then they have a responsibility to do what it takes to get the job done and documented. Yes a 1 hour lunch is a nice thing to have, but it is a nice perk, but not necessary in a busy facilty. Do you believe that your referral sources ask these questions of their employer? If we PT's, continue to ask these types of questions, I have to ask, are we really the professionals we really think we are? Professionals are professional more than 40 hours per week with 1 hour lunches. Professionals do what it takes, when necessary, to get the job done. Patient care and documentation included. Thank you for your time Roll PT, OCS, FAAOMPT Ocean Springs, MS. clinic owner/therapist we give our pts 1 hour lunch half, 30 minutes of doc time and 30 min of lunch, we only pay them for 30 min. that is in Iowa not sure what Pa laws state? ----Original Message---- To: PTManager@... Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 08:56:31 Subject: paid lunch? Group, How much lunch/break time is everyone giving to a PT employee for lunch and break time in an 8 hr day? Are you paying for lunch time? I am told that legally break time must be 15 min for every 4 hrs worked in Pa which must be paid I believe but I am not hearing that PTs are actually getting that downtime. So, can that translate to a 1/2 hr paid lunch at least if the time is lumped together? Are you expecting PTs to do paperwork while eating their lunch in order to get paid for the time but not pay them if they leave the premises? I would appreciate others solutions and the rationale behind it. Thanks, Horter, PT Horter Physical Therapy Rosemont, Pa --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Don, Don, Don, Check out my web site, call me personally, at least have the professional responsibility to identify yourself by more than your first name if you are also going to insinuate that I run a sweat shop. I have worked in PT " sweat shops " , I have allowed others to attempt to determine how many patients I see at a time and to whom I need to delegate services. I have watched salaried professionals who generate less revenue than they cost the people who sign their paychecks complain about not having enough time to eat their lunch. I have been there done that and have seen the need for change in our profession. We simply will not be able to sustain the current rate of PT salary increase that is necessary for our new grads to be able to pay their student loans coming out of DPT programs if we do not significantly change the old school " employee/employer " paradigm that has held back the growth of our profession for far too long. We need to start comparing ourselves to other doctoring professions if we wish to be seen as equals in their eyes. My point regarding the Orthopedic surgeon was that, yes, the surgeon establishes a schedule and determines when and if he is going to eat lunch but he certainly doesnt do it within the confines of an eight hour day, neither do lawyers, dentists or others who hope to be able to meet the needs of their clients while still generating a profit for the people who sign their paychecks, the very same people who return that profit to the profession through political action contributions and public relations strategies and utilize it to promote equity growth in the company that is necessary for the company to survive and that the salaried employee should have aspirations to eventually have a share of. These changes are not just my idea, these are the ideas and concepts utilized by successful business and professons throughout the world. Pick up a book or simply read the writing on the wall. Things need to change and we need to be the ones to change them or we will all be punching clocks and hoping that the boss gives us enough time to eat lunch. E. s, PT, DPT, OCS, FAAOMPT s Orthopedic & Spine Rehabilitation, Inc Bonita Springs, Florida > > A few questions. Are they salary? Are they professionals? If they are salary, and professionals, and take their job of delivering patient care seriously then they have a responsibility to do what it takes to get the job done and documented. Yes a 1 hour lunch is a nice thing to have, but it is a nice perk, but not necessary in a busy facilty. Do you believe that your referral sources ask these questions of their employer? If we PT's, continue to ask these types of questions, I have to ask, are we really the professionals we really think we are? Professionals are professional more than 40 hours per week with 1 hour lunches. Professionals do what it takes, when necessary, to get the job > done. > > Patient care and documentation included. Thank you for your time > > Roll PT, OCS, FAAOMPT > Ocean Springs, MS. > clinic owner/therapist > we give our pts 1 hour lunch half, 30 minutes of doc time and 30 min of lunch, we only pay them for 30 min. that is in Iowa not sure what Pa laws state? > > ----Original Message---- > To: PTManager@... > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 08:56:31 > Subject: paid lunch? > Group, > How much lunch/break time is everyone giving to a PT employee for lunch and break time in an 8 hr day? Are you paying for lunch time? I am told that legally break time must be 15 min for every 4 hrs worked in Pa which must be paid I believe but I am not hearing that PTs are actually getting that downtime. So, can that translate to a 1/2 hr paid lunch at least if the time is lumped together? Are you expecting PTs to do paperwork while eating their lunch in order to get paid for the time but not pay them if they leave the premises? > I would appreciate others solutions and the rationale behind it. > > Thanks, Horter, PT > Horter Physical Therapy > Rosemont, Pa > > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Mr. s, Thank you for your reply. It appears that you have become more than a little defensive to my comments. That’s too bad! Perhaps, you might benefit from a reread of my email. As for the numerous topics which you most recently set forth, I can only say that you are again bringing forth many topics which are approached in such a way as to imply some logic to your argument. It really doesn’t. One topic in particular which should be brought to the fore is that of the DPT. If you believe that the DPT will allow an MD or DO to look at you as an equal, then I can only say that doesn’t seem to be supported by historical evidence. Actually, it is not my personal goal to make myself into a from of a MD or DO. I see some who have embraced this approach for their practice of Physical Therapy and it is my opinion that the profession and patients have suffered because of it. Perhaps, if one day we write our own equivalent to CPT codes which actually reflect our profession. Perhaps, one day when we are considered as staff. Perhaps, one day when only Physical Therapists can own and operate a rehabilitation clinic. Perhaps, when we don’t look to a physician to approve our decisions and treatment plans. Perhaps, when people come to Physical Therapy directly for assistance, opinion and treatment. Perhaps, when Physical Therapists are considered a primary health care provider and an entry point for medical care and the subsequent referrals to other specialists. Perhaps … Perhaps… Perhaps… Then, Physical Therapists will be viewed as equals. If you believe that DPT is going to do any of that, well, I don’t think so. If you believe that is going to happen with out a lot of solidarity and through the isolated performance of a few, well, I don’t think so. If you think that is going to happen through the current professional organization, well, I don’t think so… If you think it is going to happen from sniping at others about how they choose to market their practice or incentive they provide to their employees or the way another PT signs his name, well I don’t think so. I’ve been to your website, Mr. s. I render no opinion of it. It is your choice to present the way you wish. As for calling you, I can see that serving no real purpose. Respectfully, Don, PT Michigan ----Last Reply---- s wrote: Don, Don, Don, Check out my web site, call me personally, at least have the professional responsibility to identify yourself by more than your first name if you are also going to insinuate that I run a sweat shop. I have worked in PT " sweat shops " , I have allowed others to attempt to determine how many patients I see at a time and to whom I need to delegate services. I have watched salaried professionals who generate less revenue than they cost the people who sign their paychecks complain about not having enough time to eat their lunch. I have been there done that and have seen the need for change in our profession. We simply will not be able to sustain the current rate of PT salary increase that is necessary for our new grads to be able to pay their student loans coming out of DPT programs if we do not significantly change the old school " employee/employer " paradigm that has held back the growth of our profession for far too long. We need to start comparing ourselves to other doctoring professions if we wish to be seen as equals in their eyes. My point regarding the Orthopedic surgeon was that, yes, the surgeon establishes a schedule and determines when and if he is going to eat lunch but he certainly doesnt do it within the confines of an eight hour day, neither do lawyers, dentists or others who hope to be able to meet the needs of their clients while still generating a profit for the people who sign their paychecks, the very same people who return that profit to the profession through political action contributions and public relations strategies and utilize it to promote equity growth in the company that is necessary for the company to survive and that the salaried employee should have aspirations to eventually have a share of. These changes are not just my idea, these are the ideas and concepts utilized by successful business and professons throughout the world. Pick up a book or simply read the writing on the wall. Things need to change and we need to be the ones to change them or we will all be punching clocks and hoping that the boss gives us enough time to eat lunch. E. s, PT, DPT, OCS, FAAOMPT s Orthopedic & Spine Rehabilitation, Inc Bonita Springs, Florida A few questions. Are they salary? Are they professionals? If they are salary, and professionals, and take their job of delivering patient care seriously then they have a responsibility to do what it takes to get the job done and documented. Yes a 1 hour lunch is a nice thing to have, but it is a nice perk, but not necessary in a busy facilty. Do you believe that your referral sources ask these questions of their employer? If we PT's, continue to ask these types of questions, I have to ask, are we really the professionals we really think we are? Professionals are professional more than 40 hours per week with 1 hour lunches. Professionals do what it takes, when necessary, to get the job done. Patient care and documentation included. Thank you for your time Roll PT, OCS, FAAOMPT Ocean Springs, MS. clinic owner/therapist we give our pts 1 hour lunch half, 30 minutes of doc time and 30 min of lunch, we only pay them for 30 min. that is in Iowa not sure what Pa laws state? ----Original Message---- To: PTManager@... Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 08:56:31 Subject: paid lunch? Group, How much lunch/break time is everyone giving to a PT employee for lunch and break time in an 8 hr day? Are you paying for lunch time? I am told that legally break time must be 15 min for every 4 hrs worked in Pa which must be paid I believe but I am not hearing that PTs are actually getting that downtime. So, can that translate to a 1/2 hr paid lunch at least if the time is lumped together? Are you expecting PTs to do paperwork while eating their lunch in order to get paid for the time but not pay them if they leave the premises? I would appreciate others solutions and the rationale behind it. Thanks, Horter, PT Horter Physical Therapy Rosemont, Pa --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Hi Everyone, I've been reading all the emails going back and forth on this subject, and finally decided to put in my two cents. I work in an op hospital setting which includes 3 off-sites. Lunches are non-paid (for both exempt and non-exempt staff). Breaks are at manager discretion, but honestly its never been a big issue if someone took a few minutes to run down to the café for a coffee or snack. The same goes for the off-site offices, each has a break room and there has never been any issue with taking a break here and there between patients. I think you need to look at how you want to treat employees. I can't imagine anyone can say that there haven't also been times when patients have no-showed/cancelled that therapists haven't taken 'breaks' during this time as well - unless you have a site with 0% cancellations/no-shows. Everyone should be able to take a lunch during the day (if more than 6 hours worked) and breaks seem to come even if there are not planned. I honestly didn't think there would be so much discussion on what I would think is a pretty simple issue (compared to everything else we deal with in our business), until I began seeing all these emails. Thanks for listening... Kimberley R. Palma Office Manager - ECHN Rehabilitation Services Tel: x5579 Fax: Pager: _____ From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of Gobble Gobble Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 6:05 PM To: PTManager Subject: Re: Re: paid lunch? Hello Group, I really do not see much that is appropriate in this response. I specifically have difficulty with the following: 1- I don't understand how mixing metaphors to rationalize your argument is of any benefit. The surgeon gets paid for that procedure, the procedures are scheduled with in advance and the surgeon can (and does)adjust his/her schedule for such events., 2- Why would anyone have such expectations as you put forth unless that was in prior agreement with mutual stipulations as what requirements need to be met to become a partner or have profit sharing. I think that is why some places do these things and others do not., and 3- The overall demeanor sounds to me more like a sweat shop than a professional setting. It makes me wonder when you would start saying that bath room breaks are taken out of the paycheck as well. Mmm, maybe you already have. 4- Well there are other things that could be commented, but I'm stopping at this point. The original question seems to be just to determine a norm for lunch and work breaks within the outpatient setting. Some responses have made it interesting reading though. I actuality, these things can and are used by many as recruitment and retention incentives and not points of diversion into self serving diatribe. It really has nothing to do with whether someone is " professional " or not. So, if it makes good business sense to offer these benefits to employment at your facility Ms Horter, then by all means do so. To me it doesn't seem to unrealistic for someone that is an income generator with your practice. Respectfully, Don, PT Michigan s <dosrinc@... <mailto:dosrinc%40att.net> > wrote: Roll, you rock! que the orthopedic surgeon, " I am sorry sir, we have to stop your surgery now so that I can have my regularly scheduled lunch and paperwork time " . As I have said many, many times, we as a profession can not have things both ways. If we are going to come out of school as Doctor's of Physical Therapy and request salaries upwards of 60k/year we are going to have to earn it. We need to end the employee/employer mentality now! We need to accept the professional responsiblity to meet the needs of our clients, if we do this consistently and make the companies we work with a profit than we should have the expectation that we will be allowed a share of that profit, if we continue to do this successfully and we so desire than we should have the expectation that some form of partnership will follow. We cannot expect partnership opportunities and profit sharing without also expecting to share in the work and the risk and in the upward mobility of the profession through work with our professional association. E. s, PT, DPT, OCS, FAAOMPT www.douglasspt.com A few questions. Are they salary? Are they professionals? If they are salary, and professionals, and take their job of delivering patient care seriously then they have a responsibility to do what it takes to get the job done and documented. Yes a 1 hour lunch is a nice thing to have, but it is a nice perk, but not necessary in a busy facilty. Do you believe that your referral sources ask these questions of their employer? If we PT's, continue to ask these types of questions, I have to ask, are we really the professionals we really think we are? Professionals are professional more than 40 hours per week with 1 hour lunches. Professionals do what it takes, when necessary, to get the job done. Patient care and documentation included. Thank you for your time Roll PT, OCS, FAAOMPT Ocean Springs, MS. clinic owner/therapist we give our pts 1 hour lunch half, 30 minutes of doc time and 30 min of lunch, we only pay them for 30 min. that is in Iowa not sure what Pa laws state? ----Original Message---- To: PTManager@... <mailto:PTManager%40Yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 08:56:31 Subject: paid lunch? Group, How much lunch/break time is everyone giving to a PT employee for lunch and break time in an 8 hr day? Are you paying for lunch time? I am told that legally break time must be 15 min for every 4 hrs worked in Pa which must be paid I believe but I am not hearing that PTs are actually getting that downtime. So, can that translate to a 1/2 hr paid lunch at least if the time is lumped together? Are you expecting PTs to do paperwork while eating their lunch in order to get paid for the time but not pay them if they leave the premises? I would appreciate others solutions and the rationale behind it. Thanks, Horter, PT Horter Physical Therapy Rosemont, Pa --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Dear Mr. , I understand your analogy regarding the orthopedic surgeon not working an 8-hour day and did not interpret this as " mixing metaphors to rationalize your argument " as Don of Michigan suggested in his e-mail response. I did not read into your e-mail that you were looking for a way out of giving your employees lunch breaks, bathroom breaks or coffee breaks. What I did read into your e-mail, and please correct me if I am wrong, is that you are interested in designating work hour breaks that will ensure adequate clinic coverage and will meet with your state labor and wage laws. If you are able to accomplish this task in a manner that is both fair and equitable to you and your employees, then GREAT! First and foremost, check with the Florida Department of Labor to determine rules regarding breaks for exempt and non exempt employees as well as full-time and part-time employees. Secondly, create a break time policy for all employees and have all employees sign off on this policy. You may want to include verbiage that states " breaks will be staggered to ensure proper clinic and telephone coverage at all times. " You may also consider having therapists (if your state labor law allows) take an early or late lunch break when they have advance notice of a patient cancellation. Have your receptionist communicate all patient cancellations promptly with the treating therapist. If an employee is required to work during his/her designated break time due to staffing shortages and/or an increased patient load due to a shortened workweek, that employee should be remunerated for their time. Consider adopting a flextime policy for exempt employees and have non exempt employees notify you or an administrator if they are required to work through their lunch break in order that you may properly manage overtime. Thirdly, if you have a large staff you may want to consider adopting a break schedule that allows employees from different departments to share the same break time versus the same employees, from the same departments, taking the same breaks at the same time on a daily basis. It has been my experience, over the past 19 years of providing medical and health care practice and AR management services to physicians and therapists, that employees who smoke are twice as likely to extend their break time if they go on break with another smoker, and employees who are prone to gossip are twice as likely to extend their break time if they are on break with another employee prone to gossip. In closing, I wish you the best of luck in the future and applaud your passion, commitment and drive. You are on the right track and while Don in Michigan may not understand or appreciate your concerns or value your ideas and concepts, there's a reader in Southwest Louisiana that is convinced you are right on the money. D. Cavitt, President Medical Legal Alliance, L.L.C. Lafayette, LA 70508 **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 paid lunch? Group, How much lunch/break time is everyone giving to a PT employee for lunch and break time in an 8 hr day? Are you paying for lunch time? I am told that legally break time must be 15 min for every 4 hrs worked in Pa which must be paid I believe but I am not hearing that PTs are actually getting that downtime. So, can that translate to a 1/2 hr paid lunch at least if the time is lumped together? Are you expecting PTs to do paperwork while eating their lunch in order to get paid for the time but not pay them if they leave the premises? I would appreciate others solutions and the rationale behind it. Thanks, Horter, PT Horter Physical Therapy Rosemont, Pa --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Dear Kim, Please consider the cost to an employer to providing each employee with paid breaks. In order to calculate this cost, take the employees hourly rate (if salaried, take the total annual salary and divide this figure by 2080 to come up with their hourly rate).  Now calculate the hourly rate for benefits, i.e., PTO, paid vacation, paid holidays, paid sick time, group health insurance, CEU or professional development allowance, uniform allowance, employer payroll tax, employer workers' compensation--percentage of total annual salary, professional liability insurance per PT/OT/SLP/PTA/COTA/Technician or Aid, and incidental perks/bonuses. A simply calculation is to add 25% to the employees hourly rate. Therefore, an employee who earns $10 per hour actually cost the employer $12.50 per hour.  If this employee takes two (2) ten (10) bathroom or coffee breaks per day, which is customarily paid by the employer that comes to fifty (50) minutes per week in paid breaks and/or a cost of $541.67 per year. This does not begin to take into account the time employees spend on personal telephone calls while on the clock; checking personal e-mails or surfing the Internet or non business related matters while on the clock; time spent at the water cooler discussing LSU's last game win or loss or the struggles they are having potty training little Tommy unforeseeable and unplanned downtime due to electricity outages, telephone outages, computers problems, etc.; and times when employees make mistake and have to redo their work--overhead cost employers must absorb. Most PTs earn 2 to 3 times this hourly rate and and such, the cost to the employer to allow these PTs to take a 10 minute a.m. and 10 minute p.m. break cost employers between $1,083 and $1,685 per year.  Medicare's therapy cap for outpatient combined PT and SLP services for 2007 was only $1,780.  When you consider the cost for proving paid morning and afternoon breaks, the concept of paying a PT for an additional 30 to 60 minute lunch break each day is not so trite or insignificant. It can actually mean the difference between a clinic owner being able to cover overhead cost and keeping their practice open, and a clinic owner having to downsize staff and reduce his/her patient load. PTs must learn to manage their practice as a business and given the fact that employee salaries and benefits account for the majority of practice overhead cost, it is not unreasonable to look at how you can reduce practice overhead cost by reducing break time versus reducing wages and benefits.  Sighing off my soap box. Have a great evening and weekend. D. Cavitt, President Medical Legal Alliance, L.L.C. paid lunch? Group, How much lunch/break time is everyone giving to a PT employee for lunch and break time in an 8 hr day? Are you paying for lunch time? I am told that legally break time must be 15 min for every 4 hrs worked in Pa which must be paid I believe but I am not hearing that PTs are actually getting that downtime. So, can that translate to a 1/2 hr paid lunch at least if the time is lumped together? Are you expecting PTs to do paperwork while eating their lunch in order to get paid for the time but not pay them if they leave the premises? I would appreciate others solutions and the rationale behind it. Thanks, Horter, PT Horter Physical Therapy Rosemont, Pa --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Ms. Cavitt, I did not read the same thing you did in Mr. ' comment. No where did he say anything about meeting state and labor wage laws, and no where did he mention " ensuring adequate clinic coverage " . In particular, I did not read in his small comment anything that could be construed as to say " If you are able to accomplish this task in a manner that is both fair and equitable to you and your employees, then GREAT! " I am assuming you are not a therapist. Is he your client? I am just wondering because it seems you are giving him a lot of praise for a small blurb about his thoughts toward our profession that seem to me to be more hurtful than helpful. I quote from your message " In closing, I wish you the best of luck in the future and applaud your passion, commitment and drive.. " Your intrepretation of what he wrote is completely different than what he wrote - it seems that you are helping him rephrase it. From what you wrote and your company name, I am assuming you are a lawyer and giving legal advice to/for him as an employer. Your advice is good advice and should be the only answer needed for this topic of conversation. Follow the law, meet the law, KEEP YOUR EMPLOYEES HAPPY so that they will want to work for you, and KEEP YOUR PATIENTS HAPPY. In the end, the patient is the person being served. A happy patient has more marketing effect than any employee will ever provide. If only Mr. had said this then Don may not have felt obligated to write what he wrote. And also Mr. ' analogy to this topic of the orthopedic surgeon quitting surgery because staff has to go to lunch is not even rational. You can't rationalize anything with irrational comments. That surgeon is not making $60K per year (which Mr. seems to think is a lot of money for a grad coming out with a DPT). His metaphor is comparing apples to oranges. Although PT's are professionals, we are and always have been treated as employees. Lunches are built into the schedule at every place I have ever worked - outpatient, inpatient, IRF, LTC, Skilled, etc... Are they paid lunches - NO. Should they be paid - if you want to incentivize an employee to work for you or to keep an employee or whatever the market dictates, YES. You have to if your margins allow it. Otherwise, you as the clinic OWNER take up the slack yourself and do the work - it is your clinic. What lunch time does Mr. provide to his therapists? What profit sharing does he provide? What incentives does he provide to assure he keeps good employees? Does he pay the therapist extra if they stay through lunch to treat a patient that was late? There are many questions I have for him because of his comments. But that topic is not for this question that was asked. In the end, if you want to keep good employees, you keep them happy. If they are not good employees, then why are they still working for you. Terry Stegman, PT, MS, BS Eng-Phy Dear Mr. , I understand your analogy regarding the orthopedic surgeon not working an 8-hour day and did not interpret this as " mixing metaphors to rationalize your argument " as Don of Michigan suggested in his e-mail response. I did not read into your e-mail that you were looking for a way out of giving your employees lunch breaks, bathroom breaks or coffee breaks. What I did read into your e-mail, and please correct me if I am wrong, is that you are interested in designating work hour breaks that will ensure adequate clinic coverage and will meet with your state labor and wage laws. If you are able to accomplish this task in a manner that is both fair and equitable to you and your employees, then GREAT! First and foremost, check with the Florida Department of Labor to determine rules regarding breaks for exempt and non exempt employees as well as full-time and part-time employees. Secondly, create a break time policy for all employees and have all employees sign off on this policy. You may want to include verbiage that states " breaks will be staggered to ensure proper clinic and telephone coverage at all times. " You may also consider having therapists (if your state labor law allows) take an early or late lunch break when they have advance notice of a patient cancellation. Have your receptionist communicate all patient cancellations promptly with the treating therapist. If an employee is required to work during his/her designated break time due to staffing shortages and/or an increased patient load due to a shortened workweek, that employee should be remunerated for their time. Consider adopting a flextime policy for exempt employees and have non exempt employees notify you or an administrator if they are required to work through their lunch break in order that you may properly manage overtime. Thirdly, if you have a large staff you may want to consider adopting a break schedule that allows employees from different departments to share the same break time versus the same employees, from the same departments, taking the same breaks at the same time on a daily basis. It has been my experience, over the past 19 years of providing medical and health care practice and AR management services to physicians and therapists, that employees who smoke are twice as likely to extend their break time if they go on break with another smoker, and employees who are prone to gossip are twice as likely to extend their break time if they are on break with another employee prone to gossip. In closing, I wish you the best of luck in the future and applaud your passion, commitment and drive. You are on the right track and while Don in Michigan may not understand or appreciate your concerns or value your ideas and concepts, there's a reader in Southwest Louisiana that is convinced you are right on the money. D. Cavitt, President Medical Legal Alliance, L.L.C. Lafayette, LA 70508 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 > > A few questions. Are they salary? Are they professionals? If they are salary, and professionals, and take their job of delivering patient care seriously then they have a responsibility to do what it takes to get the job done and documented. Yes a 1 hour lunch is a nice thing to have, but it is a nice perk, but not necessary in a busy facilty. Do you believe that your referral sources ask these questions of their employer? If we PT's, continue to ask these types of questions, I have to ask, are we really the professionals we really think we are? Professionals are professional more than 40 hours per week with 1 hour lunches. Professionals do what it takes, when necessary, to get the job > done. > > Patient care and documentation included. Thank you for your time > > Roll PT, OCS, FAAOMPT > Ocean Springs, MS. > clinic owner/therapist > we give our pts 1 hour lunch half, 30 minutes of doc time and 30 min of lunch, we only pay them for 30 min. that is in Iowa not sure what Pa laws state? > > ----Original Message---- > To: PTManager@... <mailto:PTManager%40Yahoo.com> > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 08:56:31 > Subject: paid lunch? > Group, > How much lunch/break time is everyone giving to a PT employee for lunch and break time in an 8 hr day? Are you paying for lunch time? I am told that legally break time must be 15 min for every 4 hrs worked in Pa which must be paid I believe but I am not hearing that PTs are actually getting that downtime. So, can that translate to a 1/2 hr paid lunch at least if the time is lumped together? Are you expecting PTs to do paperwork while eating their lunch in order to get paid for the time but not pay them if they leave the premises? > I would appreciate others solutions and the rationale behind it. > > Thanks, Horter, PT > Horter Physical Therapy > Rosemont, Pa > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Dear list serve, thank you all for your communications. I just saw an email from evidence in motion that contained the qoute " spirited debate (even heated at times) is foundational to positive action " . I thought it very appropriate. The reason I post and regularly read this listserve is to learn from others and in the hopes that i might somehow spur some postivie action, not to judge or condem others who do not see the world as I do. In response to a couple of specifics: Thank you, Mrs. Cavitt, for some excellent advice. It is much appreciated and I hope you will continue to share your expertise with the list serve. Mr./Mrs. Stegman, Your post was interesting. No, I am not a client of Mrs. Cavitt's, though given her response I sure know who to look for if I ever need legal adivce. I would also like you to expand on your view that what I posted might actually be hurtful. How so and what parts? As to the part about my feeling of 60k being " a lot of money " for a grad coming out with a DPT. I would say that 60k + benefits is about all a private practice PT can afford to pay a new grad coming out of school based soley on the reality of what that new grad can hope to generate revenue wise in his/her first year. You do the math. I have and I know that my company will lose money from a strictly cost vs. revenue generated on a new grad making 60k + benefits in his/her first year out of school. They may break even the second year and if they continue to work hard, they may generate a small profit by year three. The math is easy, (# of visits/ year x avg.reimbursement per = revenue generated, entire clinic cost/# of treating therapists = cost per therapist). The more you work, the more you make, the higher the percantage of your cost that you are able to cover, when you cover over 100% you have made a profit for the clinic. As for your statement " we (PT's) are and always have been, treated as employees " I say speak for yourself. The private practice session is the fastest growing section of the APTA. More and more PT's are breaking the mold of " always have been. " We are changing the paradigm and I believe it is changing in the only direction possible if we are to survive. Oh, and its Dr. s (sorry, couldn't resist) Taking up the slack in Bonita Springs, Florida E. s, PT, DPT, OCS, FAAOMPT www.douglasspt.com > Dear Mr. , > > I understand your analogy regarding the orthopedic surgeon not > working an 8-hour day and did not interpret this as " mixing > metaphors to rationalize your argument " as Don of Michigan suggested > in his e-mail response. > > I did not read into your e-mail that you were looking for a way out > of giving your employees lunch breaks, bathroom breaks or coffee > breaks. What I did read into your e-mail, and please correct me if > I am wrong, is that you are interested in designating work hour > breaks that will ensure adequate clinic coverage and will meet with > your state labor and wage laws. If you are able to accomplish this > task in a manner that is both fair and equitable to you and your > employees, then GREAT! > > First and foremost, check with the Florida Department of Labor to > determine rules regarding breaks for exempt and non exempt employees > as well as full-time and part-time employees. > > Secondly, create a break time policy for all employees and have all > employees sign off on this policy. You may want to include verbiage > that states " breaks will be staggered to ensure proper clinic and > telephone coverage at all times. " You may also consider having > therapists (if your state labor law allows) take an early or late > lunch break when they have advance notice of a patient > cancellation. Have your receptionist communicate all patient > cancellations promptly with the treating therapist. > > If an employee is required to work during his/her designated break > time due to staffing shortages and/or an increased patient load due > to a shortened workweek, that employee should be remunerated for > their time. Consider adopting a flextime policy for exempt > employees and have non exempt employees notify you or an > administrator if they are required to work through their lunch break > in order that you may properly manage overtime. > > Thirdly, if you have a large staff you may want to consider adopting > a break schedule that allows employees from different departments to > share the same break time versus the same employees, from the same > departments, taking the same breaks at the same time on a daily > basis. It has been my experience, over the past 19 years of > providing medical and health care practice and AR management > services to physicians and therapists, that employees who smoke are > twice as likely to extend their break time if they go on break with > another smoker, and employees who are prone to gossip are twice as > likely to extend their break time if they are on break with another > employee prone to gossip. > > In closing, I wish you the best of luck in the future and applaud > your passion, commitment and drive. You are on the right track and > while Don in Michigan may not understand or appreciate your > concerns or value your ideas and concepts, there's a reader in > Southwest Louisiana that is convinced you are right on the money. > > D. Cavitt, President Medical Legal Alliance, L.L.C. > Lafayette, LA 70508 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 Dr. s. I hope with this debate some of the readers will be enlightened to move to private practice. Competition makes us all better, and will move our profession forward faster than any hospital based or APTA marketing campaign ever could. We are here for the patient. Check your mission statements. My motto has always has been, if the patients are well cared for the rewards will follow. That means that one may have to work through lunch hour, or see a patient when it may not fit into their schedule of events for that day. " only in the dictionary does succcess come before work " A quote for the Fathers book of Wisdom. Roll PT OCS FAAOMPT www.ptcos.com owner/clinician Ocean Springs, MS > > Dear Mr. , > > > > I understand your analogy regarding the orthopedic surgeon not > > working an 8-hour day and did not interpret this as " mixing > > metaphors to rationalize your argument " as Don of Michigan > suggested > > in his e-mail response. > > > > I did not read into your e-mail that you were looking for a way > out > > of giving your employees lunch breaks, bathroom breaks or coffee > > breaks. What I did read into your e-mail, and please correct me > if > > I am wrong, is that you are interested in designating work hour > > breaks that will ensure adequate clinic coverage and will meet > with > > your state labor and wage laws. If you are able to accomplish this > > task in a manner that is both fair and equitable to you and your > > employees, then GREAT! > > > > First and foremost, check with the Florida Department of Labor to > > determine rules regarding breaks for exempt and non exempt > employees > > as well as full-time and part-time employees. > > > > Secondly, create a break time policy for all employees and have all > > employees sign off on this policy. You may want to include > verbiage > > that states " breaks will be staggered to ensure proper clinic and > > telephone coverage at all times. " You may also consider having > > therapists (if your state labor law allows) take an early or late > > lunch break when they have advance notice of a patient > > cancellation. Have your receptionist communicate all patient > > cancellations promptly with the treating therapist. > > > > If an employee is required to work during his/her designated break > > time due to staffing shortages and/or an increased patient load > due > > to a shortened workweek, that employee should be remunerated for > > their time. Consider adopting a flextime policy for exempt > > employees and have non exempt employees notify you or an > > administrator if they are required to work through their lunch > break > > in order that you may properly manage overtime. > > > > Thirdly, if you have a large staff you may want to consider > adopting > > a break schedule that allows employees from different departments > to > > share the same break time versus the same employees, from the same > > departments, taking the same breaks at the same time on a daily > > basis. It has been my experience, over the past 19 years of > > providing medical and health care practice and AR management > > services to physicians and therapists, that employees who smoke > are > > twice as likely to extend their break time if they go on break > with > > another smoker, and employees who are prone to gossip are twice as > > likely to extend their break time if they are on break with > another > > employee prone to gossip. > > > > In closing, I wish you the best of luck in the future and applaud > > your passion, commitment and drive. You are on the right track and > > while Don in Michigan may not understand or appreciate your > > concerns or value your ideas and concepts, there's a reader in > > Southwest Louisiana that is convinced you are right on the money. > > > > D. Cavitt, President Medical Legal Alliance, L.L.C. > > Lafayette, LA 70508 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Dear Dr. , My sincerest apologies for referring to you as " Mr. " versus " Dr. " in my previous list serve missive. You are very welcome for the practice management advice. I am not a therapist, nor am I an attorney. I am a medical practice management consultant and the following is not a solicitation. My company, Medical Legal Alliance, LLC (MLA) was incepted in March 1999 and is an " alliance " of health care attorneys, estate planning attorneys, corporate/business attorneys, financial advisors/asset protection advisors, CPAs, certified medical coding specialists, certified medical insurance specialists and IT networking specialists. We even have an alliance member who publishes a statewide medical newspaper (pro-provider of course)! The " alliance " concept was born from the need for medical and health care providers to have access to cohesive professional services and/or turn key business solutions. I have provided medical practice management, accounts receivable management, chart auditing and creation of corporate compliance policies and procedures to over 75 medical and health care providers in Louisiana and Texas over the past nine years, 50+ have been private practice PTs, OTs and SLPs. Prior to incepting MLA in March 1999, I served as the CEO of a medical group practice comprised of seven neurosurgeons, five neurologists and 60+ clinical and clerical staff members for four years. Prior to that, I served as the business manager for a neurosurgery practice five years. I have extensive experience and knowledge in practice start-ups, e.g., developing practice policies and procedures, developing accounts receivable policies and procedures, and developing corporate compliance programs for small group practices. However, my passion is auditing and teaching medical and health care providers how to manage their practices as a for-profit business. In my 18+ years of providing medical and AR management services to physicians and therapists, I have done so in the role of an employee, the role of an employer, and the role of a consultant. I understand employees want to be paid competitive wages and benefits. I understand employers want to pay employees competitive wages and benefits. I also understand that in a fully managed care environment, where reimbursement rates continue to decrease and overhead practice costs continue increase, that solo private practice employers are struggling to attract and retain competent skilled labor as larger group practices and hospitals are able to offer higher startup salaries and benefits along with signup bonuses. At the risk of further inciting Mr./Mrs./Ms. Stegman, $60K per year for a new PT grad--at least down here in South Louisiana--is a very competitive starting salary. Don't take my word, go to the Bureau of Labor Statistics website at _www.dol.gov/dol/stats.htm_ (http://www.dol.gov/dol/stats.htm) and enter your state and professional designation you are interested in obtaining wage statistics. This website will provide you with median wages and percentiles to assist you in determining where your employee wages " fall " compared to other employers in your same geographical local and industry. In closing, I am not of the personal or professional opinion that it is our responsibility as employers to " KEEP YOUR EMPLOYEES HAPPY so that they will want to work for you, and KEEP YOUR PATIENTS HAPPY " as was stated in Mr./Mrs./Ms. Stegman's list serve missive to me. Happiness is a state of mind and is not something we as employers or health care professionals have control over and/or should be made responsible for ensuring our employees and patients must sustain at all times. As an employer, you choose to provide employees who smoke the same paid morning and afternoon break as you provide employees who do not smoke yet take coffee breaks. The employee who smokes is happy. The non smoking employee resents the fact that employees are allowed to smoke at work and feels your decision " only promotes " this nasty habit. As an employer, you can choose to provide employees with paid lunch during and paid time during mandatory monthly staff meetings on compliance, coding, billing and patient care. The employee who realizes the necessity of these staff meetings and is happy to have both a paid lunch and payment professional development. The employee who had a previous engagement on this day is unhappy, hates staff meetings, and would have preferred pizza over grilled chicken salad. As a therapist, you can choose to work through your lunch hour to treat a patient who works from 8-5 and cannot come at any other time. That patient is appreciative and happy you made this sacrifice. Conversely, another patient is bothered and unhappy because they had to skip lunch in order to come to therapy and must now rush back to work in lunch hour traffic in order not to avoid yet another confrontation with their employer. As a therapist, you can choose to waive a patient's co-pay or financial responsibility due to financial hardship. One patient can sing your praises and light three candles for you at church the following Sunday, while another patient may feel entitled to free health care services and refuse to comply with your POC and home exercise program, further prolonging their discharge. In my personal or professional opinion, we are not responsible as employers and health care professionals for KEEPING OUR EMPLOYEES AND PATIENTS HAPPY. We are responsible as employers and health care professionals to support, educate, empower, care for, and professionally and responsibly treat our employees, patients and clients. D. Cavitt, President Medical Legal Alliance, LLC Lafayette, LA 70808 (cell) **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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