Re:Juicing - yeast? was Re:Candida, Kefir, Kombucha, diets.

[Guest guest]

>So would GAPS then be no fruit no nuts, just meat and veggies for the

first several weeks, if so what about detox? She is quite adamant that

detox needs to take place to relieve the gut of distress.

>

Maybe! I'm struggling with trying to figure out the bottom line for us...

I'm studying Bee's information, listening for feedback on the GAPS lists,

then there's SCD and BED. I mean, if you cross all the programs an take only

what's universally allowed, I guess it would be just broth, meat and certain

veggies? I tried to do pretty much that with some juicing for a week with my

daughter and myself, and it was an awful time. Sigh. Are you on the leaky

gut list?

Take care,

Alice - HSing mom to Alice (w/DS) born Thanksgiving Day 1995 :-)

Hopewell Junction, NY http://www.frontiernet.net/~castella/

[Guest guest]

>

> >So would GAPS then be no fruit no nuts, just meat and veggies for the

> first several weeks, if so what about detox? She is quite adamant that

> detox needs to take place to relieve the gut of distress.

> >

> Maybe! I'm struggling with trying to figure out the bottom line for us...

> I'm studying Bee's information, listening for feedback on the GAPS lists,

> then there's SCD and BED. I mean, if you cross all the programs an take only

> what's universally allowed, I guess it would be just broth, meat and certain

> veggies? I tried to do pretty much that with some juicing for a week with my

> daughter and myself, and it was an awful time. Sigh. Are you on the leaky

> gut list?

> Take care,

> Alice - HSing mom to Alice (w/DS) born Thanksgiving Day 1995 :-)

> Hopewell Junction, NY http://www.frontiernet.net/~castella/

>

I'm on the GAPS diet (intro phase) right now and I had a lengthy phone

consultation with

Dr. -McBride. She suspects yeast may be an issue for me, so she

suggested that

I do the intro diet (bone broth, veggies and meat) for about a week, then add

egg yolks,

avocados, slow-cooker stews, roasted & grilled meats, pancakes made with nut

butter &

cooked or grated winter squash in that order. Next would be juice, starting

with carrot

and then adding green juices.

It's important to understand that the GAPS and SCD philosophies about what

candida feeds

on are different than the *traditional* anti-candida diets. In GAPS/SCD, the

theory is that

yeast & bacteria feed on disaccharides, and therefore sweet vegetables like

carrots and

fruits are not a problem. The anti-candida folks believe that candida feeds on

all sugars,

so of course fruits and sweet veggies would be an issue.

The GAPS/SCD theory actually makes more sense to me, and fits with some of the

available

scientific research out there on the subject. For example, in hospital based

elemental diet

formulas glucose is always used as the carbohydrate source. This is because it

is

absorbed high up in the intestine with the least amount of digestion necessary.

Although

they aren't trying to starve yeast with that diet, there have been studies that

have shown

that elemental formulas with glucose as the carb source do indeed dramatically

reduce the

concentration of intestinal flora in the gut. Dr. Mark Pimentel at UCLA did

some

interesting work in this area - but I don't have the references on hand.

Nevertheless, as someone else suggested earlier in the thread, theories are

useful but

they're still simply theories. Plenty of very alternatively-minded doctors I

know believe

that yeast and candida is overdiagnosed, and they are adamant that none of the

current

tests for candida are conclusive in any way. Therefore the only reliable course

of action is

to try the various diets (for at least three weeks each) and see what works.

Not easy though!

Chris

[Guest guest]

Hi Alice,

I know your still trying to figure it out but we seem to kind of be

on the same wave length at times in questions (thyroid list) so i

figure asking you may be helpful incase you already did it or thought

it etc.Yes i am on all of them too. Like you, i am trying to take in

what i can and make sense of it. It confuses me more i think! LOL!

I am trying to make sense out of her book as i think some things are

unclear like how to exactly implement the diet. I am still trying to

figure out if the foods list is what we start eating from the

beginning or not. As i recall everyone on LG group talking about

phases/stages to eat from but i do not see that in her book.

Yeah it looks like that is what we would get if crossed them all.

Thanks

>

> Maybe! I'm struggling with trying to figure out the bottom line for

us...

> I'm studying Bee's information, listening for feedback on the GAPS

lists,

> then there's SCD and BED. I mean, if you cross all the programs an

take only

> what's universally allowed, I guess it would be just broth, meat

and certain

> veggies? I tried to do pretty much that with some juicing for a

week with my

> daughter and myself, and it was an awful time. Sigh. Are you on the

leaky

> gut list?

[Guest guest]

Hi - see below

>

> I'm on the GAPS diet (intro phase) right now and I had a lengthy

phone consultation with

> Dr. -McBride. She suspects yeast may be an issue for me,

so she suggested that

> I do the intro diet (bone broth, veggies and meat) for about a

week, then add egg yolks,

> avocados, slow-cooker stews, roasted & grilled meats, pancakes made

with nut butter &

> cooked or grated winter squash in that order. Next would be juice,

starting with carrot

> and then adding green juices.

Good, this is info i was looking for in feedback. I have read your

other posts on this but do not recall the extra food info. I only

recall the info on Kefir and that her ideas have seemed to change

since she wrote the book.

How long is a phase as i do not recall seeing that defined in her

book. This is another confusing thing for me as i have not seen a

time frame other than maybe months to yrs for dairy and grains to be

reintroduced. I have been flipping back through reading sections

over trying to find the info on how long a phase is, what foods are

first and for how long before i move to the next foods, or a list of

foods to try 1st, 2nd, and so forth. All i have found is the all

legal food lists and the overall idea of the diet. Not specific

rules on implementing and how long and which foods during each phase.

> It's important to understand that the GAPS and SCD philosophies

about what candida feeds

> on are different than the *traditional* anti-candida diets. In

GAPS/SCD, the theory is that

> yeast & bacteria feed on disaccharides, and therefore sweet

vegetables like carrots and

> fruits are not a problem. The anti-candida folks believe that

candida feeds on all sugars,

> so of course fruits and sweet veggies would be an issue.

This is what i thought she was getting at when she got into the sugar

molecules etc. breaking them down and comparing diets. But i felt it

was still unclear.

> The GAPS/SCD theory actually makes more sense to me, and fits with

some of the available

> scientific research out there on the subject. For example, in

hospital based elemental diet

> formulas glucose is always used as the carbohydrate source. This

is because it is

> absorbed high up in the intestine with the least amount of

digestion necessary. Although

> they aren't trying to starve yeast with that diet, there have been

studies that have shown

> that elemental formulas with glucose as the carb source do indeed

dramatically reduce the

> concentration of intestinal flora in the gut. Dr. Mark Pimentel at

UCLA did some

> interesting work in this area - but I don't have the references on

hand.

I agree it makes more sense, except i have not read the research you

mention. Makes more sense when comparing books on health and diets.

More info on the above diets w/ glucose reducing concentration of the

gut flora.

> Nevertheless, as someone else suggested earlier in the thread,

theories are useful but

> they're still simply theories. Plenty of very alternatively-minded

doctors I know believe

> that yeast and candida is overdiagnosed, and they are adamant that

none of the current

> tests for candida are conclusive in any way. Therefore the only

reliable course of action is

> to try the various diets (for at least three weeks each) and see

what works.

>

I have heard the same.

> Not easy though!

Yeah, one reason i have not done it yet!

Thanks for your input,

[Guest guest]

--- In , " " <beauty4ashesisaiah61@...>

wrote:

>

> Hi - see below

>

> --- In , " chriskjezp "

> Good, this is info i was looking for in feedback. I have read your

> other posts on this but do not recall the extra food info. I only

> recall the info on Kefir and that her ideas have seemed to change

> since she wrote the book.

>

> How long is a phase as i do not recall seeing that defined in her

> book. This is another confusing thing for me as i have not seen a

> time frame other than maybe months to yrs for dairy and grains to be

> reintroduced. I have been flipping back through reading sections

> over trying to find the info on how long a phase is, what foods are

> first and for how long before i move to the next foods, or a list of

> foods to try 1st, 2nd, and so forth. All i have found is the all

> legal food lists and the overall idea of the diet. Not specific

> rules on implementing and how long and which foods during each phase.

There is no standard length of a phase. That's determined by one's symptoms.

When the

symptoms stabilize on a particular phase, then it's time to move on to the next.

Grains are never permitted on the GAPS diet. But the idea is to do the GAPS

diet for as

long as necessary, and then it's possible to go off it if desired once the gut

is healed. Dr.

CMB suggests that people with very compromised guts try to stay on it (for the

most part)

indefinitely. She says that in her family's case, for example, they eat the

GAPS diet while at

home but permit themselves more freedom when traveling.

Dairy also depends on the person. In my case she recommended starting with

butter,

kefir and yogurt right away (in small, increasing amounts) and trying cheese

within a

month or two. Nothing is set in stone.

Chris

[Guest guest]

On Apr 7, 2008, at 4:03 PM, chriskjezp wrote:

>

> It's important to understand that the GAPS and SCD philosophies

> about what candida feeds

> on are different than the *traditional* anti-candida diets. In GAPS/

> SCD, the theory is that

> yeast & bacteria feed on disaccharides, and therefore sweet

> vegetables like carrots and

> fruits are not a problem. The anti-candida folks believe that

> candida feeds on all sugars,

> so of course fruits and sweet veggies would be an issue.

This makes sense to me. I reversed a very bad candida overgrowth

almost 15 years ago. I did eat fruit, in moderation. That and honey

were the only forms of sugar I was allowed -- in moderation of course.

That said, I did not eat fruit for the first 3 weeks -- I was on a

strict elimination diet that consisted only of meats, fish and non-

starchy vegetables. Then after those first 3 weeks, I slowly started

reintroducing foods, one at a time to see if I had any allergic

reactions. I ended up having a gluten intolerance and had to avoid

gluten for 1-2 years. After my gut healed, I could eat it again with

no flare ups. Same thing with sugar and all other foods. It did take

1-2 years, though.

I think the important thing is to start taking steps in the right

direction. The body does heal in time -- but it does take time! Avoid

the foods you know are bad and try to incorporate the good foods as

much as possible. Get on a strong probiotic or if you can't afford

that, eat fermented foods as much as humanly possible. :-)

I was just listening to Dr. Kaayla speak (from the 2007 WAPF

conference) and she said that most of us have a hard time eating

enough fermented foods like sauerkraut and kefir -- especially kids

who may not like the taste. So she advocates a probiotic for most

people. I think a probiotic is good too because you can be very

precise about how much you are consuming and decrease the dose if your

signs of die off are severe. But if money is tight, the fermented

foods work too.

Another thing that is important is that GAPS/SCD are really more

focused on healing the leaky gut in addition to candida overgrowth. So

bone broths are heavily incorporated to rebuild the gut wall.

Also the juicing is important to help build immmunity and also to help

the body detoxify more effectively. When the probiotics are added to

the gut, they go around packaging up the toxins, and ejecting them

into the blood stream. This is why so many people experience symptoms

of " die off " .

What we need to do to make it easier on ourselves is to open up more

pathways for elimination of toxins -- including through the urine,

stool, and the pores of the skin. Another thing I think that helps is

sweating -- either taking hot baths, sitting under a towel under steam

from very hot water, sitting in a sauna, or foot baths. I have found

using a combination of juicing and sweating to be very effective.

I think all these diets are just different pieces of one big puzzle.

Remember that old story about the blind men and the elephant? They are

all walking around the elephant trying to figure out what it is,

announcing their findings to each other. One is holding the tail,

saying, " It's long and thin! " One has a hand on the side of the

elephant and he says, " No, it is not! It's wide and flat! " The point

is, we can't always see the whole picture at first -- but if you put

the pieces together, you can make sense of it.

Ann Marie