Re: Yogurt making problem

[Guest guest]

Chris-

> Picked up a Yogourmet Thursday. Poured a quart of raw milk without

> heating it first into the

> container, and then mixed it with a bit of commercial (local,

> organic) yogurt as a starter. Let

> it go for 24 hours.

>

> It came out quite lumpy. Certain parts are still milk-like in

> consistency, and then there are

> " chunks " of yogurt-like consistency in there. Perhaps it will be

> better if I stir it up a bit and

> refrigerate it for a while.

On a few occasions I've tried using commercial yoghurt as a starter,

and it's been a disaster every time. Commercial yoghurts aren't

fermented long enough to develop a really high bacteria count, and

they often have undesirable extra ingredients put in to recreate a

proper yoghurt texture which wouldn't otherwise be present because of

questionable fermentation.

Personally, I use Natren's yoghurt starter, but I'm sure there are

other good ones out there.

-

[Guest guest]

> On a few occasions I've tried using commercial yoghurt as a starter,

> and it's been a disaster every time. Commercial yoghurts aren't

> fermented long enough to develop a really high bacteria count, and

> they often have undesirable extra ingredients put in to recreate a

> proper yoghurt texture which wouldn't otherwise be present because of

> questionable fermentation.

>

> Personally, I use Natren's yoghurt starter, but I'm sure there are

> other good ones out there.

>

> -

Thanks for all of your help with this, . There's certainly a lot of

conflicting information

out there. I have Prentice's " Full Moon Feast " and Sandor Katz's " Wild

Fermentation " , and both of them suggest using commercial yogurt as a starter.

In any

event, what you say makes perfect sense to me and I know Natren is a reputable

company

with a long family history in fermentation. I'm sure their starter is great.

Best,

Chris

[Guest guest]

I decided to try making yogurt without heating the milk first and using cold raw

milk. I

don't have a yogurt maker so I tried it with a small jar of milk plus starter in

my electric

oven with the light on for 30 hours. The jar was quite warm when I took it out.

It tasted

like yogurt vs. clabbered milk. I used 1 T. of yogurt and 1 cup of milk. It

worked great but I

don't know how a larger jar, say a quart jar, would work. The yogurt I used for

my starter

was from a jar of raw yogurt from my local farmer. He gets his cultures from

dairyconnection.com/

> > On a few occasions I've tried using commercial yoghurt as a starter,

> > and it's been a disaster every time. Commercial yoghurts aren't

> > fermented long enough to develop a really high bacteria count, and

> > they often have undesirable extra ingredients put in to recreate a

> > proper yoghurt texture which wouldn't otherwise be present because of

> > questionable fermentation.

> >

> > Personally, I use Natren's yoghurt starter, but I'm sure there are

> > other good ones out there.

> >

> > -

>

> Thanks for all of your help with this, . There's certainly a lot of

conflicting

information

> out there. I have Prentice's " Full Moon Feast " and Sandor Katz's

" Wild

> Fermentation " , and both of them suggest using commercial yogurt as a starter.

In any

> event, what you say makes perfect sense to me and I know Natren is a reputable

company

> with a long family history in fermentation. I'm sure their starter is great.

>

> Best,

> Chris

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I decided to try making yogurt without heating the milk first and using cold

raw milk. I

> don't have a yogurt maker so I tried it with a small jar of milk plus starter

in my electric

> oven with the light on for 30 hours. The jar was quite warm when I took it

out. It tasted

> like yogurt vs. clabbered milk. I used 1 T. of yogurt and 1 cup of milk. It

worked great

but I

> don't know how a larger jar, say a quart jar, would work. The yogurt I used

for my

starter

> was from a jar of raw yogurt from my local farmer. He gets his cultures from

> dairyconnection.com/

I've now tried making yogurt three times without heating it up past 105

beforehand. Each

time I've used the Yogourmet and raw milk. Once I used a commercial yogurt as a

starter,

once I used the Natren starter, and once I used the Yogourmet starter. I left

it on for 24+

hours. In each case the yogurt came out somewhat lumpy/runny. It was sour

enough, but

it wasn't creamy and thick.

In his " Wild Fermentation " book, Sandor Katz says the only way to get creamy

yogurt is to

heat the milk to 180 and allow it to cool back to 110 before adding the culture.

Is it true?

Are those of you making yogurt without heating it getting THICK yogurt?

Chris

[Guest guest]

Chris-

> Once I used a commercial yogurt as a starter,

> once I used the Natren starter, and once I used the Yogourmet

> starter. I left it on for 24+

> hours. In each case the yogurt came out somewhat lumpy/runny. It was

> sour enough, but

> it wasn't creamy and thick.

>

> In his " Wild Fermentation " book, Sandor Katz says the only way to

> get creamy yogurt is to

> heat the milk to 180 and allow it to cool back to 110 before adding

> the culture. Is it true?

> Are those of you making yogurt without heating it getting THICK

> yogurt?

I think there's a difference between " thick " and " firm " . I regularly

get thick yoghurt, though that's probably partly because I make mine

with half cream and half milk or colostrum, so the fat content is much

higher than that of regular yoghurt, but it's not firm. IOW, when I

take a spoonful out, it doesn't hold its shape particularly well.

Firmness is in fact a function of heating, which denatures some of the

proteins and changes the structure of the dairy.

The lumpiness, though, makes me wonder about (a) how fresh the milk

you're using is, and ( whether you're adequately mixing the starter

into the milk before incubation. Do you soften it like you would

gelatin before mixing and incubating?

-

[Guest guest]

> I think there's a difference between " thick " and " firm " . I regularly

> get thick yoghurt, though that's probably partly because I make mine

> with half cream and half milk or colostrum, so the fat content is much

> higher than that of regular yoghurt, but it's not firm. IOW, when I

> take a spoonful out, it doesn't hold its shape particularly well.

> Firmness is in fact a function of heating, which denatures some of the

> proteins and changes the structure of the dairy.

>

> The lumpiness, though, makes me wonder about (a) how fresh the milk

> you're using is, and ( whether you're adequately mixing the starter

> into the milk before incubation. Do you soften it like you would

> gelatin before mixing and incubating?

,

I think we're probably talking about the same thing. The yogurt we've gotten

from raw

milk without heating isn't exactly thin, but it isn't really thick and doesn't

hold together

very well as you describe.

We are mixing the starter into a paste with a few TBS of milk, then adding a few

more TBS

and mixing more thoroughly, then adding the rest of the milk. This is how I've

always

done it. The milk is very fresh from a milk co-op we belong to.

I guess it boils down to form vs. function. I don't mind the consistency of the

unheated

stuff, but my wife really hankers after the super-thick, creamy yogurt. I do

believe that

the unheated variety must be easier to digest and more beneficial to health

because of the

intact proteins and enzymes.

How long are you fermenting it? Perhaps I can allow it to go for a bit longer

next time.

Chris