Vital Stimulation

[Guest guest]

,

Vital Stim would be happy to share with you information that indicates that the

signal deteriorates significantly when electrodes are re-used (isn't that a

surprise!). Our local sales rep supplied this to us--actually, it might be the

same one, ours covers parts of VA, NC, and SC (Chuck Voyles).

I'm curious about any substitute electrodes you've heard about, which I can

only assume are cheaper, as VS supplies are extremely expensive.

Regarding the original question in this string, we've also had patients attend

3x per week with good results, but as others have noted it has to be for the

full 60 minutes to make it worthwhile.

Dan Gaskell, Rehab Therapy Manager

Carilion Rehabilitation

Roanoke, VA

Re: Vital Stimulation Posted by:

" Agan, " bjagan@... Tue Jan

22, 2008 2:08 pm (PST) Is everyone using the Vital

stim brand electrodes, or a substitute

electrode? We are using vital stim brand, but have received information

on comparable replacements

Is anyone reusing the electrodes on the same patient, if so how many

uses do you get out of an electrode on average?

We are only billing the swallow code per session and do not at this

point charge the patients for the electrodes, but are debating charging

for them as vital stim is considered a non-covered service from CMS.

Agan. PT

Nash Health Care

Rocky Mount, NC

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

For those offering Vital Stimulation in their Speech Therapy areas, how

are you scheduling the patients: 1 on 1 per hour, every 30 min

dovetailing patients, etc. Additionally are your programs absorbing the

cost of the electrodes or are you using an ABN and having the patients

pay out of pocket for the electrode as it technically is not reimbursed

by CMS.

I would appreciate any insight.

Agan, PT Cert. MDT

Nash Health Care Systems

Outpatient Program Manager

Rocky Mount, NC 27804

- Phone

- Fax

bjagan@...

..

<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1100781/grpspId=1705061347/m

sgId=42952/stime=1207777099/nc1=5191949/nc2=5191951/nc3=5191954>

[Guest guest]

We just started this program and we are scheduling the patients one on one for

an hour. As the load develops, we will plan on decreasing these times or even

group therapy. We do not bill the patients separate for the electrodes. Our

listed charge for vital stim was increased to take into consideration for the

electrodes cost but as you know, we get paid a set rate in most cases.

M. Trevor Huffman, P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.C.

Director of Rehabilitation Services

Passavant Area Hospital

ville, IL

trevor.huffman@...<mailto:trevor.huffman@...\

>

________________________________

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of

Agan,

Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 7:03 AM

To: PTManager

Subject: Vital Stimulation

For those offering Vital Stimulation in their Speech Therapy areas, how

are you scheduling the patients: 1 on 1 per hour, every 30 min

dovetailing patients, etc. Additionally are your programs absorbing the

cost of the electrodes or are you using an ABN and having the patients

pay out of pocket for the electrode as it technically is not reimbursed

by CMS.

I would appreciate any insight.

Agan, PT Cert. MDT

Nash Health Care Systems

Outpatient Program Manager

Rocky Mount, NC 27804

- Phone

- Fax

bjagan@...<mailto:bjagan%40nhcs.org>

..

<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1100781/grpspId=1705061347/m

sgId=42952/stime=1207777099/nc1=5191949/nc2=5191951/nc3=5191954>

[Guest guest]

We are scheduling these patients 1:1 for the entire hour both on inpatient and

outpatient. We have not tried dovetailing these folks but I might propose that

to the speech staff (and duck for cover when they laugh at me...)

We absorb the cost of the electrodes which is very problematic because of the

cost. We have explored other manufacturer's electrodes and trying to extend the

use of the " single use " electrode but have come back to single time with Vital

Stim's electrodes.

It's a challenge.

Marcy Stalvey, PT, NCS

Edwin Shaw Rehab

>>> bjagan@... 04/10/08 08:03AM >>>

For those offering Vital Stimulation in their Speech Therapy areas, how

are you scheduling the patients: 1 on 1 per hour, every 30 min

dovetailing patients, etc. Additionally are your programs absorbing the

cost of the electrodes or are you using an ABN and having the patients

pay out of pocket for the electrode as it technically is not reimbursed

by CMS.

I would appreciate any insight.

Agan, PT Cert. MDT

Nash Health Care Systems

Outpatient Program Manager

Rocky Mount, NC 27804

- Phone

- Fax

bjagan@...

..

<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1100781/grpspId=1705061347/m

sgId=42952/stime=1207777099/nc1=5191949/nc2=5191951/nc3=5191954>

[Guest guest]

Yes- Our Speech staff did try other electrodes ( can' t tell you which but they

did the research). They even tried using them for a second treatment. However,

they really did find that single use of the Vital Stim electrodes got the best

results. Not terribly evidenced based research -Purely anecdotal and a small

sample size - but at least they tried.

electrodes. Personally it eludes me how an company so experienced with

electrical stimulation as Empi cannot make a electrode for Vital Stim

comparable to the reusable electrodes that we use for other body parts in PT and

OT. Perhaps someday the electrode price will come down so that the

intervention can be more widely used....

Marcy Stalvey, PT, NCS

Akron, OH

..

>>> catodc2000@... 04/10/08 11:35PM >>>

When you say you have explored other electrodes does that mean you have tried

other electrodes? I am having a difficult time getting my Speech staff to even

consider trying alternative electrodes. Vital Stim (Empi/Chatanooga) has really

got them brain washed on the electrodes.

We provide the service in three of our OP clinics. One of the clinics our SLP

schedules these patients on a staggered schedule to allow her to dove tail and

see all patients for 1 hour. She sees them 1:1 for 30 minutes, then in a group

of 2 patients for 30 minutes. The second patient in that started in group then

gets 30 minutes of 1:1. We have 2 vital stim machines at this clinic that makes

this possible. The rest of our clinics only have 1 machine and are providing 1

hour 1:1 treatments.

We currently do not ask the patients to pay the cost of the electrodes, but we

are exploring this possibility. I have also gathered some literature on

alternative electrodes to potentially try out that I am going to have our SLP's

review.

Cato, PT, MBA

System Director Rehab Services

Lee Memorial Health System

Marcy Stalvey wrote:

We are scheduling these patients 1:1 for the entire hour both on

inpatient and outpatient. We have not tried dovetailing these folks but I might

propose that to the speech staff (and duck for cover when they laugh at me...)

We absorb the cost of the electrodes which is very problematic because of the

cost. We have explored other manufacturer's electrodes and trying to extend the

use of the " single use " electrode but have come back to single time with Vital

Stim's electrodes.

It's a challenge.

Marcy Stalvey, PT, NCS

Edwin Shaw Rehab

>>> bjagan@... 04/10/08 08:03AM >>>

For those offering Vital Stimulation in their Speech Therapy areas, how

are you scheduling the patients: 1 on 1 per hour, every 30 min

dovetailing patients, etc. Additionally are your programs absorbing the

cost of the electrodes or are you using an ABN and having the patients

pay out of pocket for the electrode as it technically is not reimbursed

by CMS.

I would appreciate any insight.

Agan, PT Cert. MDT

Nash Health Care Systems

Outpatient Program Manager

Rocky Mount, NC 27804

- Phone

- Fax

bjagan@...

..

<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1100781/grpspId=1705061347/m

sgId=42952/stime=1207777099/nc1=5191949/nc2=5191951/nc3=5191954>