Re: Great Quote!

[Guest guest]

> > This is why, though I love the whole

> > college environment, and the vast world that opens up there -- well,

> > the *idea*, the *possibility* of the vast world opening up... -- I'm

> > afraid I might not ever get very far in that academic world (even at

> > my age, I want to go back-to-school). I'm not a game-player, I won't

> > just go along with things just because the teacher is already invested

> > in certain ideas and their ego can't bear to question those ideas.

> > That is human nature, though; it will always be a struggle to

> > overcome it.

>

> In general, middle school and high school are much more doctrinaire

> and closed to debate than the university system, though there are

> exceptions, of course, like religious institutions and departments

> with strong ties to industry.

>

>

> -

Really?

That certainly wasn't my experience in academia. I would highly

suggest _The Shadow University_ by Harvey Silvergate to get a

different take on the " openness " of the modern university.

--

" Don't let anybody make you think that God chose America as his divine

messianic force, to be a sort of policeman of the whole world... "

- Luther King Jr.

" The individual who can do something that the world wants will, in the

end, make his way regardless of race. "

- Booker T. Washington (1856–1915)

[Guest guest]

On Apr 8, 2008, at 11:49 AM, haecklers wrote:

> But you see, it's all related to the topic of the book! Those with

> the highest grades, and who survive the rigorous elimination process

> of the universities are the most dedicated to university-brand

> science, where they've been praised into giving up their own

> curiosity to play the party line and instead of questionning the

> things that don't make sense to them they've learned to accept that

> any idiot would see that's true - perhaps a defense of the faculty

> who also have been forced to stop questionning even though the

> answers may not be readily apparent. So they are experiencing either

> a wounding of their natural selves or a great deal of cognitive

> dissonance over that bit of themselves they're suppressing

> (curiosity, doubts) and their venomous answers are a result. This

> hit me like a lightbulb today as I realized this " punished by

> rewards " idea is the answer to why scientists are some of the most

> awful, venomous, and difficult to talk with when it comes to

> alternative views. IN " The Underground History of American

> Education " author Gatto mentions that those who are singled out

> (falsly) as the " best and brightest " are the ones most likely to be

> co-opted into the system.

Ouch. You don't describe any of my scientific colleagues with your

words below. Their approach is to follow where the results of

experimentation lead them, adding new tools/methods of exploration as

such techniques become available.

If there are academics who don't pursue or entertain alternative

views, blame that on the nature of the beast (research in academia)

entirely. Peer review and public taxpayer funding impose some pre-

thought before one undertakes an expensive research program.

Increasingly, private funding (through foundations mostly) is becoming

as restrictive as public funding, with fewer funds for risky projects

that pursue " alternative " hypotheses. If you can't pay the workers or

pay for the supplies, how can you build the bridge?

Venomous? Probably only about the nature of academia - these days,

faculty are being saddled with committee upon committee, to the point

that they rarely get a chance to ask those pertinent research questions.

>

>

> By the way, have you heard of the new film coming out, Ben

> Stein's " Expelled " ?

The producer interviewed PZ Myers under false pretenses, selectively

used interview material - completely out of context - and then didn't

even let him into the prescreening (though ironically, the producer

did let Dawkins in, unchallenged). http://tinyurl.com/2az7ll

and http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/03/expelled.php

-jennifer

(lovin' that soft-funded, non-faculty science job)