Re: Too much B12

[Guest guest]

Never listen to anyone who tells you anything is harmless. Be careful

with drastic changes in supplements, drugs, foods, anything. Not

paranoid, just careful.

I would hit up the FailsafeNT list and ask Emma about this. She'll

probably recommend the Yakso protocol if you can recommend it, and

probably have lots of anecdotes and/or other information that might be

relevant to who should and shouldn't take B12, symptoms, etc.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Hi, Cray Fish

First, I found your post refreshing. I love your line about " getting

attached to having answers is not unique to the holistic or allopathic

world.....'....... So true, so true. When my son was first DX'd with

Autism, I was warned to beware of snake oil, and I was shocked to find how

many ways that could be packaged. Not only in " answers " , but in

one-size-fits-all disorders. I've had to spend copious amounts of energy

dodging the chelation, high-dose protocal, GF, ad nauseum crowd for years,

just keeping my head down and plowing through my own research while

carefully monitoring my son's progress. But enough of that....just wanted

to say " Thanks " for what you wrote. There were a couple of interesting B12

articles I saved awhile ago, when looking into B12 As Savior for a myriad of

conditions, including Autism....... Weston Price published an article back

in 2005 in their quarterly publication which listed a wide range of

disorders which were due to B12 " deficiency " . They did differentiate

between different forms of B12, and I think that is key. I'm unable to

access the article, however, getting a message that there's a " certificate "

problem with the server (whatever that is):

Vitamin B12: Vital Nutrient for Good

Health<https://westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/vitaminb12.html>The

most commonly used form of B12 for treatment in the US is *cyanocobalamin*.

Only two forms are active in the body, however, methylcobalamin and *...*

https://westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/vitaminb12.html

Yet, when I've studied vegetarian sites (NO, I'm not vegetarian, but am

bi-partisan in my studies LOL), a common theme is that B12 deficiency is

extremely rare. Here's an article from a pediatrician stating that:

http://www.vegsource.com/attwood/vitB-12.htm

And yet another.........

http://www.roylretreat.com/articles/b12.html - Focuses on cyanocobalamin

which is the primary form of B12 in the majority of vitamins/supplements, no

matter their quality. The writer says:

" I have studied the Vitamin B12 issue thoroughly, and have learned that

biochemists, neutraceutical scientists, and many writers mistakenly use the

term Vitamin B12 for cyanocobalamin, THAT IS NOT USABLE BY THE BODY BUT

which is in all vitamin B12 supplements. When speaking of Vitamin B12 they

are referring to the semisynthetic Vitamin B12 (cyanocobalamin) that

initially was contaminated with poisonous cyanide during its chemical

extraction from animal tissues. Carbon columns are used during the

extraction process and the carbon combines with nitrogen from the medium

forming the poisonous cyanocobalamin, that scientists insist on calling

Vitamin B12.

Cyanocobalamin is in every vitamin B12 supplement known because it is stable

and less costly to manufacture. But it is not usable in the body. If the

body has sufficient energy it may be able to offload the cyanide and benefit

from the useful component.* Mainly, what people experience after taking

cyanocobalamin supplements is stimulation. The toxic effect of the cyanide

triggers a rush of energy as the body works hard to excrete the poison, and

this fools people into believing that the supplement has " worked " to heal

them*. Meanwhile, if their blood tests show an increase in B12, it mainly

reflects the amount of the CYANOCOBALAMIN in the blood stream. The usable

forms are carried into the cells and can't be discovered by testing the

blood as is the current practice. Blood tests are often inaccurate and, as

previously stated, in the case of cyanocobalamin supplementation and B12

injections, about 90% of it has been eliminated from the body in 24 hours. "

The names of cobalamins formed by the body or in a laboratory are: l.

hydroxocobalamin if it combines with a hydroxyl ion (OH), and 2.

aquocobalamin, when it combines with water. Cobalamin also combines with

anions such as nitrite a form of nitrogen, chloride, and sulfur. These are

not usable by the body. The two active coenzymes that can be formed in the

body after stripping off the cyanide are 5'deoxyadenosylcobalamin, or

adenosylcobalamin for short, and methylcobalamin. The problem is that the

cyanide is toxic and makes many people sicker than they were before taking

the supplement.

Cyanocobalamin is in every vitamin B12 supplement known because it is stable

and less costly to manufacture.....

Looking at it Hygienically, no Vitamin B12 therapy can cause a recovery from

any so-called deficiency disease. It may only hide the symptoms and cannot

give an individual health. When people report that their apparent B12

deficiency symptoms have been relieved by cyanocobalamin supplementation,

they are mistaken. They are not getting usable Vitamin B12 coenzymes, and

their bodies are forced to convert the cyanide form into the active forms,

methylcobalamin, and adenosylcobalamin. This extra function stimulates but

wastes nerve energy, and they are are actually getting worse, not better.

They have not addressed the cause of their troubles.

In summary, vegans and raw fooders all have sufficient amounts of coenzyme

B12 in their diets, and FROM THAT produced in their bodies. The most common

basic cause of a natural cobalamin deficiency is a failure to digest, absorb

and utilize the various cobalamins from food and from the intestinal tract

as in the case of gastritis or gastroenteritis. The cause of malabsorption

is commonly a gastrointestinal disorder and this was known by pathologists

way back in the l800s. In this case, one's lifestyle must be assessed and

brought into unison with the needs of the living organism.

Furthermore, absorption of the natural B12 coenzymes can take place in the

mouth, throat, esophagus, bronchial tubes and even in the upper small

intestines, as well as all along the intestinal tract. THIS DOES NOT INVOLVE

THE COMPLEX ENZYME MECHANISM FOR ABSORPTION (INTRINSIC FACTOR) IN THE SMALL

INTESTINE AS REQUIRED BY CYANOCOBALAMIN. THE COENZYMES ARE ABSORBED BY

DIFFUSION FROM MUCOUS MEMBRANES.

So, no answers here other than you weren't specific on the type of B12 you

were taking, and I think it is important to consider methylcobalamin vs.

cyanocobalamin....

And if you knew this and were taking the proper form, just delete this

message.

My rule-of-thumb in nutritional approaches is that I start from the baseline

of nutritional blood panels. I've found the majority of people don't go

that extra measure, and IMO, taking supplements, and especially not

considering their form/composition, turns it all into a game of Russian

roulette..........

Sharon

On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 9:17 PM, Cray Fish <crayfishfeed@...> wrote:

> When I first came on this chat group, I was grateful to have the

> opportunity to do a search and read back, even years sometimes, and

> find some insight on a particular question so I am posting this for

> the same reasons. One thing I have noticed from being chronically sick

> for 3 years (and being too sick to work and at times too sick to even

> go to the store to get my food and not being able to have a normal

> social life and being completely broke) is that it's really easy to

> get burned trying to treat yourself holistically. The burned part

> comes in when I have mistakenly listened to someone who has had a

> strong attachment (for whatever reason) to a particular treatment or

> supplement. Of course getting attached to having answers is not unique

> to the holistic or allopathic world and one would be wise to consider

> it a human condition rather than unique to area of study or religion

> for that matter.

>

[Guest guest]

Emma no longer posts on FailsafeNT. check out her blog instead

http://blog.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.info/

>

> Never listen to anyone who tells you anything is harmless. Be careful

> with drastic changes in supplements, drugs, foods, anything. Not

> paranoid, just careful.

>

> I would hit up the FailsafeNT list and ask Emma about this. She'll

> probably recommend the Yakso protocol if you can recommend it, and

> probably have lots of anecdotes and/or other information that might be

> relevant to who should and shouldn't take B12, symptoms, etc.

>

> Chris

>