Re: high fructose ads & about LA - PUFA and Mercury

[Guest guest]

There is a lot more to how dangerous PUFA are than just the amount

included in our diet. I think focusing on a number (4%) doesn't

always make much sense when other factors can play a bigger role.

For instance people who have any amount of mercury in their system

will have higher rates of lipid peroxides because mercury is so

reactive and will snatch the electrons right from the EFA's located in

the cell membranes. This will result obviously in more lipid

peroxides and less EFA's in our body and less formation of

prostaglandins. The damaged lipids obviously then need to be replaced

for the cells to work properly and you will need higher than 4% PUFA

but if you don't get rid of the mercury the cycle of destruction will

just continue.

There is an incredible amount of PUFA in the brain and once mercury

gets in, it doesn't seem to get out easily. Based on autopsy studies

where people had known mercury exposures earlier in life then no

exposure for quite some time (including fillings) the half-life of

mercury in the brain is incredibly long...estimated by some to be

14-25 years...sometimes longer. Inorganic mercury doesn't cross the

blood brain barrier, and unlike fish we cannot methylate mercury to

assist the process. Yet organic mercury (such as methylmercury) and

mercury vapor can cross the blood brain barrier and convert into

inorganic mercury in the brain, causing it to build up in higher

levels found elsewhere in the body. Of course it does a lot more than

just oxidize PUFA in the brain...it blocks a wide range of enzymes

involved in hormone production and really throws everything out of

balance. Here is a diagram that shows some of the hormones it blocks

- http://tinyurl.com/65g7qy .

The only thing that I'm aware that can actually cross the blood brain

barrier and pull mercury out is Alpha Lipoic Acid...and there has been

many studies regarding this...but its very dangerous to use in certain

circumstances and if not used properly you can end up with more

mercury in your brain. Andy Cutler wrote extensively on the proper

use of ALA, and after chelating with it properly for 5 weeks so far I

can definitely say that my brain feels quite different in a very

positive way...though it can take a year or more to really get rid of

all the mercury in the brain.

Of course mercury isn't the only cause of lipid peroxides but I do

think its one of the bigger ones.

-

>

> -

>

> I agree, but it's basically impossible to keep PUFA meaningfully below

> 4% on a high-fat, whole-foodsy sort of diet. I get most of my fat

> from dairy, for example, and butter fat is unfortunately almost 4% PUFA.

>

> -

>

> > I'm certainly not arguing that PUFA should be higher, in fact I have

> > believed for quite awhile that it should be lower than 4% as a general

> > rule, and Chris's Special Report on the topic seems to confirm that in

> > a pretty rigorous fashion.

> >

> > http://www.wolfrivernaturals.com/chris-masterjohn-special-reports.htm

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> ,

>

> It seems to me that this is just an additional issue. It doesn't

> change the importance of PUFA, but just means that mercury is also

> important.

>

> > This will result obviously in more lipid

> > peroxides and less EFA's in our body and less formation of

> > prostaglandins. The damaged lipids obviously then need to be replaced

> > for the cells to work properly and you will need higher than 4% PUFA

> > but if you don't get rid of the mercury the cycle of destruction will

> > just continue.

>

> I seriously doubt that mercury will cause you to need anywhere NEAR 4%

> of your calories from PUFA. The critical thing here is that what you

> need are DHA and AA. You need these at microgram levels, similar to

> vitamins. If you do not have factors causing oxidative stress such as

> mercury and you are not in a state of growth, pregnancy, or lactation,

> your needs are probably infinitesimal. Will they go up if you enter a

> state of oxidative stress? Yes. A lot? Probably. But you can go

> from infinitesimal and near zero up a very, very, very large degree

> and still not get anywhere near 4% of your calories.

>

> The second thing to remember is that total PUFA suppresses

> desaturation of PUFA. The estimate in my nutrition textbook is that

> linoleic acid up to 1 or 2% or so will increase arachidonic acid

> levels, and thereafter it makes no difference until you get up to 12%

> or so, when it actually starts depressing levels of arachidonate. So

> if you need more AA and DHA, you want high levels of those two fatty

> acids, maybe in gram levels for a period of time, but you don't want

> high total PUFA because you will suppress desaturation. Even if you

> are getting enough AA, your source of DHA will probably also include

> EPA. If you have lots of linoleic acid shutting down desaturation,

> you won't be able to turn the EPA into DHA, which according to my

> working hypothesis expressed in my PUFA report is exactly what you

> want to do.

>

> Moreover, oxidative stress hurts desaturation, lowering the level at

> which total PUFA intake becomes useless and then counterproductive.

>

> Chris

>

I guess you would have to know how much lipid peroxides really go up

in mercury toxic people to have an idea of how much more EFA's are

needed. Its really hard to say because unlike a lot of free radicals

mercury can keep on oxidizing repeatedly so one molecule of mercury

can potentially do quite a bit of damage.

Part of it was also from many subjective reports that a lot of people

detoxifying mercury feel a lot better if they get plenty of EFA's,

preferably from fish oils.

I do agree that you want high levels of ready to use PUFA such as DHA

and AA, partially because lots of the mercury in the body comes out in

the bile and if you have a lot of PUFA's I'm sure you could see what

would happen.

-

[Guest guest]

--- <gdawson6@...> wrote:

> I guess you would have to know how much lipid peroxides really go up

> in mercury toxic people to have an idea of how much more EFA's are

> needed. Its really hard to say because unlike a lot of free

> radicals mercury can keep on oxidizing repeatedly so one molecule

> of mercury can potentially do quite a bit of damage.

, another factor in the mercury toxicity equation may be dietary

selenium. As was discussed on this list recently, selenium binds very

strongly to mercury and greatly reduces it's toxicity. I remember

checking into it a bit and read elsewhere that a high selenium to

mercury ratio in some seafoods may protect against mercury toxicity -

although it will not prevent the mercury from be absorbed during

digestion. I'm guessing that ensuring adequate dietary selenium may

be a good way to limit mercury harm.

I still have some amalgam fillings and I'm sure I have some mercury

toxicity and have had it ever since I was a child and was given

vaccines with thimerosal and a bunch of amalgam fillings. I also

remember playing with some mercury from a thermometer on time as a

child. I suspect it might be less harmful to sequester it away with

selenium than to provoke it's discharge in an effort to eliminate it.

My dad is almost 81 yo and recently I mentioned to him the possible

connection between mercury in amalgams and Alzheimer's. He said he

didn't believe it because he has lots of amalgam fillings and no signs

of dementia. I'm not familiar with his diet, but maybe he gets plenty

of selenium.

> Part of it was also from many subjective reports that a lot of

> people detoxifying mercury feel a lot better if they get plenty of

> EFA's, preferably from fish oils.

That might be because most people get way too much omega-6 PUFA.

[Guest guest]

,

I've read up quite a bit on the interaction of Mercury and Selenium

and there is no doubt that when consumed together...the mercury has

less toxic effects. On the downside, you actually retain mercury

better when it is ingested with selenium...whereas if you had a

healthy digestive system very little mercury is actually absorbed.

I tried supplementing with various forms of selenium and all made me

feel really terrible...and I tried waiting out the bad symptoms

thinking it would help but I don't know if it did...but using alpha

lipoic acid as a chelating agent, which also binds very tightly to

mercury, actually makes me feel a lot better and it is actually

removed from the body for the most part.

As for your dad, some people apparently certainly seem less affected

by mercury...and I don't know if it could be attributed to just

selenium levels. I'm pretty sure genetics plays a big role in how we

tolerate mercury and some of us just appear to be more susceptible to

'amalgam illness'. I've read that people of northern European descent

appear to be more sensitive to mercury, but who knows.

There have been plenty of studies on autopsied bodies where they

measure the amount of mercury in the brain and it is strongly

correlated with how many fillings are in your mouth. If you have some

of the symptoms of mercury poisoning then it would definitely be worth

getting the fillings safely removed. I tried for two years to rely on

diet alone to control my mercury symptoms and it just got worse so I

knew I had to get my fillings replaced...

-

> > I guess you would have to know how much lipid peroxides really go up

> > in mercury toxic people to have an idea of how much more EFA's are

> > needed. Its really hard to say because unlike a lot of free

> > radicals mercury can keep on oxidizing repeatedly so one molecule

> > of mercury can potentially do quite a bit of damage.

>

> , another factor in the mercury toxicity equation may be dietary

> selenium. As was discussed on this list recently, selenium binds very

> strongly to mercury and greatly reduces it's toxicity. I remember

> checking into it a bit and read elsewhere that a high selenium to

> mercury ratio in some seafoods may protect against mercury toxicity -

> although it will not prevent the mercury from be absorbed during

> digestion. I'm guessing that ensuring adequate dietary selenium may

> be a good way to limit mercury harm.

>

> I still have some amalgam fillings and I'm sure I have some mercury

> toxicity and have had it ever since I was a child and was given

> vaccines with thimerosal and a bunch of amalgam fillings. I also

> remember playing with some mercury from a thermometer on time as a

> child. I suspect it might be less harmful to sequester it away with

> selenium than to provoke it's discharge in an effort to eliminate it.

>

> My dad is almost 81 yo and recently I mentioned to him the possible

> connection between mercury in amalgams and Alzheimer's. He said he

> didn't believe it because he has lots of amalgam fillings and no signs

> of dementia. I'm not familiar with his diet, but maybe he gets plenty

> of selenium.

>

> > Part of it was also from many subjective reports that a lot of

> > people detoxifying mercury feel a lot better if they get plenty of

> > EFA's, preferably from fish oils.

>

> That might be because most people get way too much omega-6 PUFA.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Rather than take selenium supplements you might try eating two Brazil

nuts each day (buy them in the shell).

-Patty

--- In , " gdawson6 " <gdawson6@...>

wrote:

>

> I tried supplementing with various forms of selenium and all made me

> feel really terrible...

[Guest guest]

I was eating 7 freshly shelled and soaked brazil nuts every other day

for more than a whole summer 2 years ago...and really didn't see much

improvement from that. It had a very similar effect that the

supplemented selenium's had...it actually felt like they increased my

mercury symptoms. Doesn't seem to make much sense if selenium does

tightly bind to selenium but who knows what was actually going

on...its so hard to say.

I am having excellent results lately using alpha lipoic acid to

chelate the mercury via Andy Cutler's protocol. I would rather have

it out than just pacified in my body but that could just be a mental

preference.

-

> >

> > I tried supplementing with various forms of selenium and all made me

> > feel really terrible...

>

[Guest guest]

--- <gdawson6@...> wrote:

> I was eating 7 freshly shelled and soaked brazil nuts every other day

> for more than a whole summer 2 years ago...and really didn't see much

> improvement from that. It had a very similar effect that the

> supplemented selenium's had...it actually felt like they increased my

> mercury symptoms.

, I remember reading not long ago that selenium in brazil nuts is

not very bio-available compared to selenium in animal foods. That

might also be the problem with the supplements, depending on the form

of the selenium.

[Guest guest]

That goes to show that everyone is different and individual in how

their bodies respond to things.

Are you diabetic? I've considered ALA for my husband who is type 2.

-Patty

--- In , " gdawson6 " <gdawson6@...>

wrote:

>

> I was eating 7 freshly shelled and soaked brazil nuts every other day

for more than a whole summer 2 years ago...and really didn't see much

improvement from that...

> I am having excellent results lately using alpha lipoic acid...

[Guest guest]

Well I did eat lots of raw grassfed beef (maybe like 1/2 lb a day) for

a long time and lots of egg yolks so I was certainly getting some

selenium, just not very large amounts. I always heard butter contained

selenium but was never able to find any figures for that but I also

ate incredible amounts of grassfed butter over the years (around a

pound a day for a while).

I just don't think its as simple as just taking selenium...at least

for me. Selenium is certainly necessary because a number of enzymes

use it, but it just didn't seem to alleviate my symptoms associated

with mercury in any way, whereas chelating it does.

-

> > I was eating 7 freshly shelled and soaked brazil nuts every other day

> > for more than a whole summer 2 years ago...and really didn't see much

> > improvement from that. It had a very similar effect that the

> > supplemented selenium's had...it actually felt like they increased my

> > mercury symptoms.

>

> , I remember reading not long ago that selenium in brazil nuts is

> not very bio-available compared to selenium in animal foods. That

> might also be the problem with the supplements, depending on the form

> of the selenium.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

this page says that 1 cup of butter contains 2.3 mcg of selenium

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/133/2

> > > I was eating 7 freshly shelled and soaked brazil nuts every other day

> > > for more than a whole summer 2 years ago...and really didn't see much

> > > improvement from that. It had a very similar effect that the

> > > supplemented selenium's had...it actually felt like they increased my

> > > mercury symptoms.

> >

> > , I remember reading not long ago that selenium in brazil nuts is

> > not very bio-available compared to selenium in animal foods. That

> > might also be the problem with the supplements, depending on the form

> > of the selenium.

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

gary, if you don't mind my asking, how did you consume a whole pound of butter

in a day? also, i occasionally input my foods into fitday and from yesterday it

said i got something like 150% of RDA for selinium. (for whatever that's worth)

i eat raw cream/milk, egg yolks (at least 6-8), bacon, sour cream, cheese, beef,

white potatoes, butter. don't know if that helps...

amanda

>Well I did eat lots of raw grassfed beef (maybe like 1/2 lb a day) for

a long time and lots of egg yolks so I was certainly getting some

selenium, just not very large amounts. I always heard butter contained

selenium but was never able to find any figures for that but I also

ate incredible amounts of grassfed butter over the years (around a

pound a day for a while). <

.

[Guest guest]

I wish I had a $100,000,000 light spectrum that would tell me what's in

each food. They can claim all they want but if it's not in the soil

it's not there.

On Nov 3, 2008, at 11:43 AM, carolyn_graff wrote:

this page says that 1 cup of butter contains 2.3 mcg of selenium

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/133/2

Parashis

artpages@...

artpagesonline.com

[Guest guest]

selenium and cysteine are necessary for the enzyme glutathione

peroxidase, which as its name suggests reduces lipid hydroperoxides. . .

..as for diet and mercury toxicity, recognize also that sulphur binds

freely with mercury (in nature it's mostly HgS), so sulphur in the diet

is important as well.

as a lactating woman with metal toxicity who can't afford perfect meat, i

seem to do much better with tons of fish oil, unfortunately.

desh

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