Re: Sports Nutrition / Electrolytes / Etc.

[Guest guest]

>I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas on what I might eat or drink

>before, during and after exercise to try to effectively rehydrate and

>replace electrolytes without resorting to toxic sugar-water crap like

>Gatorade, which obviously I'm just not going to drink.

what about coconut water? or on the NT baby list this electrolyte drink always

comes up: ACV, molasses and sea salt to a quart of water. i don't remember the

exact amounts, but something like 1T, 1T, 1t respectively.

amanda

.

[Guest guest]

-

> what about coconut water? or on the NT baby list this electrolyte

> drink always comes up: ACV, molasses and sea salt to a quart of

> water. i don't remember the exact amounts, but something like 1T,

> 1T, 1t respectively.

People have suggested variations of that to me before, but it seems

awfully sugary for a low-carber. 1T of molasses has 15g of carb. If

I drank, say, 6 quarts of water over the course of a day, that'd be

90g of carb -- more than twice as much as much as the total daily carb

intake I try to stick to.

-

[Guest guest]

Can you imagine hunter-gatherers having to drink Gatorade?

The need for that stuff means the system is insufficiently fat

adapted and/or not fueled right and will crash if not fed sugar

regularly.

The Performance Menu forum has lots of expertise of people eating

whole foods (paleo) and high level athletics. There's also the Paleo

Diet for Athletes (basically carb-ups with starch and fruit only

after high intense long exertion)

Real food and water should do it. Old-fashioned Southern sweet tea

or lemonade functions the same as Gatorade, no wonder it was invented

in the South!

Connie

> More generally, I thought the larger subject of sports nutrition

might

> be interesting. I've noticed that regular consumption of raw

liver

> improves my reflexes fairly substantially, and now that more

serious

> players are coming back to the courts, I'm finally getting

motivated

> to go back to eating liver a few times a week. Does anyone have

> similar or different or related experiences or observations? What

> does the available scientific literature tell us about athletic

> performance and genuinely healthy eating?

>

> -

[Guest guest]

--- Idol <paul.idol@...> wrote:

What

> does the available scientific literature tell us

> about athletic

> performance and genuinely healthy eating?

Good topic and one that interests me greatly. I do

Olympic style weightlifting.

Well, for one, it tells us that post-exercise we

should restore glycogen levels. Now most exercise

circles will say to drink a Post-workout whey product.

Most whey products have a lot of junk in it.

I have on occasion given in and drunk one of these,

usually when I don't have time for anything else.

Nowadays, I generally don't drink the Post-workout

drinks. I just eat a couple of slices of sprouted

bread with raw honey. A glass of raw milk (if you

can drink it...I can't) might be good to add to the

mix.

Fish oil is HIGHLY recommended in exercise circles,

for its anti-inflammatory, as well as other benefits.

BTW, people on here might be interested to know that I

actually first heard of Sally Fallon and her book from

Poliquin who coaches a lot of Olympians. He

characterised her as a " national treasure " .

The other thing that is highly recommded in

exerices circles is Branched Chain Amino Acids. Now

Whey has a pretty good dose of this, but usually extra

supplementation is advised. They can get expensive in

their tablet form...but Bulk Nutrition sells the

powder pretty cheap. Warning....it tastes like ass.

Post workout, a gram or two of Vitamin C is usually

advised as well to reduce cortisol. A lot of people

advocate phosphatidyl serine, but that's REALLY

expensive.

I am a big believer in short intense workouts. When I

run, I sprint. I am not a believer in long-distance

running. All this to say that since a lot of what I

do is anaerobic, I might not be speaking to your

question, though it occurs to me if you do a LOT of

sweating, some type of multi-mineral might be in

order.

Things fall apart; the center cannot hold;

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity.

-WB Yeats

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Be a better friend, newshound, and

know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

[Guest guest]

-

> Well, for one, it tells us that post-exercise we

> should restore glycogen levels. Now most exercise

> circles will say to drink a Post-workout whey product.

> Most whey products have a lot of junk in it.

> I have on occasion given in and drunk one of these,

> usually when I don't have time for anything else.

> Nowadays, I generally don't drink the Post-workout

> drinks. I just eat a couple of slices of sprouted

> bread with raw honey. A glass of raw milk (if you

> can drink it...I can't) might be good to add to the

> mix.

I was thinking about taking a thermos of kefir to the courts to drink

after and maybe during tennis. That wouldn't have all that much

protein, but I suppose the carbs would take care of

replenishing glycogen. Bread with honey would definitely be out of

the question for me, though I'm sure it's very tasty.

> Fish oil is HIGHLY recommended in exercise circles,

> for its anti-inflammatory, as well as other benefits.

Seems to me that's a bad idea all around. A certain amount of

inflammatory signaling is necessary to build muscle and otherwise

adapt to the stress of exercise, but if anti-inflammatory nutrients

are genuinely needed, taking lots of PUFA seems like a really bad way

to get them.

> BTW, people on here might be interested to know that I

> actually first heard of Sally Fallon and her book from

> Poliquin who coaches a lot of Olympians. He

> characterised her as a " national treasure " .

Wow, interesting!

> The other thing that is highly recommded in

> exerices circles is Branched Chain Amino Acids. Now

> Whey has a pretty good dose of this, but usually extra

> supplementation is advised. They can get expensive in

> their tablet form...but Bulk Nutrition sells the

> powder pretty cheap. Warning....it tastes like ass.

Yeah, I've taken BCAA powder before. Blech! Do you just swallow some

powder and then chase it with something? It doesn't really mix well

with anything in my experience.

> I am a big believer in short intense workouts. When I

> run, I sprint. I am not a believer in long-distance

> running. All this to say that since a lot of what I

> do is anaerobic, I might not be speaking to your

> question, though it occurs to me if you do a LOT of

> sweating, some type of multi-mineral might be in

> order.

Yeah, I sweat pretty ridiculously. Last summer I was going through

200+ ounces of water in a day on the court -- really absurd. Tennis

isn't really a long-distance type of sport, though. It's lots and

lots of short bursts of sprinting around the court and other short,

intense bursts of effort punctuated with rests and intervals of

dramatically lower intensity, so IMO it's pretty excellent as exercise

even discounting the appeal (to me, anyway) of the sport itself.

One problem I always have with mineral supplementation is digestive

tolerance. Another is finding potassium in any kind of useful form

since it's illegal in doses of more than 99mg, meaning that nobody

carries bulk potassium chelates.

Thanks for the response! I'm definitely looking forward to further

discussion of the subject.

-

[Guest guest]

, here is something that works well for me working in the hot So

Cal sun.

I take pure water, add some concentrace liquid mineral drops (The

best place to get it is swansonvitamins.com). It has a lot of

magnesium and other dissolved ions from a clean part of the salt lake

in utah with only the sodium removed. 1/4 teaspoon has almost 67%

magnesium, plus a plethora of other minerals and trace minerals. Then

I add a bit of Potassium Gluconate that I buy in a bulk powder from

now foods. Finally, and the last part is just personal preference, I

add 1 drop of organic raspberry flavor extract and carbonate it using

a soda club carbonator.

Iherb.com sells both bulk powders of potassium gluconate and potassium

chloride.

Some pure malic acid added to the mix really helps my muscles as well.

Its incredibly good at helping me not get sore from over-exertion. I

react badly to pure citric acid (must be msg or something) but I get a

great reaction from malic acid.

On a side note, I always cover up my skin in intense sun. Too much

sun and my muscles tighten up real fast. I tried working in shorts

and long sleeves and my calves that night felt like rocks, and my

thyroids will feel tight if I overexpose my skin to the sun.

-

>

> So woe is me, it's getting uncomfortably warm... and for me, that

> means lots and lots and lots of sweating, particularly when I'm

> playing ultimate frisbee or tennis. In the warmer months, a day of

> tennis is often followed by a night of very unpleasant cramping, so

> I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas on what I might eat or drink

> before, during and after exercise to try to effectively rehydrate and

> replace electrolytes without resorting to toxic sugar-water crap like

> Gatorade, which obviously I'm just not going to drink.

>

> More generally, I thought the larger subject of sports nutrition might

> be interesting. I've noticed that regular consumption of raw liver

> improves my reflexes fairly substantially, and now that more serious

> players are coming back to the courts, I'm finally getting motivated

> to go back to eating liver a few times a week. Does anyone have

> similar or different or related experiences or observations? What

> does the available scientific literature tell us about athletic

> performance and genuinely healthy eating?

>

> -

>

[Guest guest]

> Well, for one, it tells us that post-exercise we

> should restore glycogen levels.

Old School Me asks, why not eat and let the restoration begin. One

needs recovery time after exercise just for this sort of thing.

Oops, I am ranting! whole sports nutrition thing comes from

bodybuilding and elite athletics, whose goals might not be health first

but rather, performance/fame/riches first and selling concoctions

second to make up for the damage to the body from the performance-first

ethic.

[Guest guest]

--- cbrown2008 <cbrown2008@...> wrote:

>> Oops, I am ranting! whole sports nutrition thing

> comes from

> bodybuilding and elite athletics, whose goals might

> not be health first

Actually, you will find that a lot of athletes are

interested in more than just performance. If for no

other reason, they are interested in not getting ill,

because you can't train when you are ill. A large

percentage of athletes (I am talking about strength

athletes...not marathon runners or something like

that) follow something akin to the Native Nutrition

diet. I already mentioned in the previous post how

top Olympic coach/trainer Poliquin was the

source of how I came to know about Sally Fallon and

this way of eating.

-

Things fall apart; the center cannot hold;

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity.

-WB Yeats

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Be a better friend, newshound, and

know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

[Guest guest]

,

> So woe is me, it's getting uncomfortably warm... and for me, that

> means lots and lots and lots of sweating, particularly when I'm

> playing ultimate frisbee or tennis. In the warmer months, a day of

> tennis is often followed by a night of very unpleasant cramping, so

> I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas on what I might eat or drink

> before, during and after exercise to try to effectively rehydrate and

> replace electrolytes without resorting to toxic sugar-water crap like

> Gatorade, which obviously I'm just not going to drink.

I know you don't like coconut water because of its sugar content, but

it is great for hydrating and replenishing electrolytes. You might do

like once did and kefirize it.

I have found that cream after workouts is pretty nice. For that matter

I would think that kefir would work as well.

> More generally, I thought the larger subject of sports nutrition might

> be interesting. I've noticed that regular consumption of raw liver

> improves my reflexes fairly substantially, and now that more serious

> players are coming back to the courts, I'm finally getting motivated

> to go back to eating liver a few times a week.

Did you initally drop it because of personal issues or you simply got

away from it or its not your favorite food item to begin with?

> Does anyone have

> similar or different or related experiences or observations? What

> does the available scientific literature tell us about athletic

> performance and genuinely healthy eating?

Do those two go together, at least in the literature? :-)

--

" A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents

and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents

eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with

it. " Max Planck

[Guest guest]

,

> BTW, people on here might be interested to know that I

> actually first heard of Sally Fallon and her book from

> Poliquin who coaches a lot of Olympians. He

> characterised her as a " national treasure " .

I turned my Olympic lifting trainer on to Weston Price/Sally Fallon a

few years back. He had a client who was vegetarian and asked me what I

thought about it. My response was that she better start eating some

meat and I pointed him in the direction of the WAPF website. He turned

her on to it and IIRC she gave up her vegetarianism.

--

" A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents

and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents

eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with

it. " Max Planck

[Guest guest]

> Actually, you will find that a lot of athletes are

> interested in more than just performance. If for no

> other reason, they are interested in not getting ill,

> because you can't train when you are ill. A large

> percentage of athletes (I am talking about strength

> athletes...not marathon runners or something like

> that) follow something akin to the Native Nutrition

> diet. I already mentioned in the previous post how

> top Olympic coach/trainer Poliquin was the

> source of how I came to know about Sally Fallon and

> this way of eating.

>

> -

Well that is true. I guess I was knee-jerk reacting to the idea

of " special food " for athletics.

It is athletes who are coming up with " sports nutrition. "

I ask myself, why industrially manufacture food into micronutrients and

then recombine them? Blast whole dairy into isolated whey protein so

it absorbs faster and then micromanage the ingestion and amounts? For

a competitive edge? To speed things up?

It's that tweaking to get the competitive edge that sets up my spidey

sense that getting the edge is more important than respecting our

bodies' need for traditional fuel.

But I know not everyone agrees with my assumptions that our bodies

perform best on clean fuel, that how do we know we magically sluff off

manufactured molecules, that eating proportions never found in nature

has a risk, that we can get away with it as long as we're not literally

sick, etc etc

Connie

[Guest guest]

-

> I know you don't like coconut water because of its sugar content, but

> it is great for hydrating and replenishing electrolytes. You might do

> like once did and kefirize it.

I actually have a couple bottles of kefired coconut water in the

fridge from an experiment a long, long time ago. (Three years,

perhaps, though I'm really not sure.) I drink a small amount every

now and then on the assumption that it's beneficial, but I find the

taste to be pretty profoundly unpleasant. I suppose I could dry

adding a little to the water I bring to the courts, but at that level

of dilution, I'm not sure it'd do any good.

> I have found that cream after workouts is pretty nice. For that matter

> I would think that kefir would work as well.

I usually have cream after tennis in the form of (homemade) ice cream

after dinner. It's very satiating, but it doesn't seem to help at all

with cramping.

> Did you initally drop it because of personal issues or you simply got

> away from it or its not your favorite food item to begin with?

A combination of things. I was short on funds, I don't enjoy

liver... I guess that's about it. Fundage-wise I'm still not in the

world's greatest shape, but I've concluded it was stupid to stop

eating liver and it would be stupider yet not to start eating it again

posthaste. (Every now and then, ego -- this time in the form of the

desire to win more matches and play better tennis -- can be

constructive. <g>)

> > Does anyone have

> > similar or different or related experiences or observations? What

> > does the available scientific literature tell us about athletic

> > performance and genuinely healthy eating?

>

> Do those two go together, at least in the literature? :-)

LOL! I have no idea.

-

[Guest guest]

Connie-

> Well that is true. I guess I was knee-jerk reacting to the idea

> of " special food " for athletics.

Inasmuch as any kind of extended physical demands placed on the body,

including athletics, cause the body to require more of certain

families of nutrients, I think even within a traditional WAP/paleo

paradigm, there are likely to be different considerations and emphases

involved in choosing foods -- which is exactly what I was getting at

by soliciting opinions on what to eat and drink and use to support

extended periods of tennis and other sports over the summer.

> Blast whole dairy into isolated whey protein so

> it absorbs faster and then micromanage the ingestion and amounts? For

> a competitive edge? To speed things up?

I think the point of whey protein is less absorption speed and more

maximizing the amount, though speed of absorption certainly is a

consideration for many people. Unfortunately, body builders and even

many fitness buffs believe in maximizing insulin secretion, so to

them, speed is important.

> But I know not everyone agrees with my assumptions that our bodies

> perform best on clean fuel, that how do we know we magically sluff off

> manufactured molecules, that eating proportions never found in nature

> has a risk, that we can get away with it as long as we're not

> literally

> sick, etc etc

This is great if you can magically acquire nutrient-super-dense foods

grown on super-fertile soil, but I'd wager that virtually nobody can

nowadays, which is why I don't think supplementation is inherently

unwise even if it would be unwise to consume most supplements on the

market.

-

[Guest guest]

,

> People have suggested variations of that to me before, but it seems

> awfully sugary for a low-carber. 1T of molasses has 15g of carb. If

> I drank, say, 6 quarts of water over the course of a day, that'd be

> 90g of carb -- more than twice as much as much as the total daily carb

> intake I try to stick to.

Wow! If your daily carb intake is that low, why don't you lower it a

little more to drop some weight quickly?

Personally, I can sit on around all day and do much of nothing and if

my carb intake is at 70 grams or so I won't gain any weight. With

exercise I can increase it quite a bit (more than double) without any

weight gain effects.

--

" A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents

and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents

eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with

it. " Max Planck

[Guest guest]

Hi and ,

I'm experimenting with a potassium broth:

http://ezinearticles.com/?Potassium-Broth & id=418109

Gatorade contains bromated vegetable oils.

Bromine blocks the absorption of iodine that is needed by every cell

in the body.

Bromine has a weight that is very similar to iodine and this causes

it to compete for binding in the body. Bromine and iodine are both

halogens and they have a similar atomic weight. Bromine is added to

flour because it is used as a dough conditioner. It's also found in

carbonated drinks such as Mountain Dew, AMP Energy Drink and some

Gatorade products. Bromine intoxication (i.e. bromism) has been shown

to cause delirium, psychomotor retardation, schizophrenia, and

hallucination. People with bromine intoxication feel dull and

apathetic and have difficulty concentrating. Bromine can also cause

severe depression, headaches, and irritability.

Jo

Re: Sports Nutrition / Electrolytes / Etc.

Posted by: " " slethnobotanist@... slethnobotanist

Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:37 pm (PDT)

,

> So woe is me, it's getting uncomfortably warm... and for me, that

> means lots and lots and lots of sweating, particularly when I'm

> playing ultimate frisbee or tennis. In the warmer months, a day of

> tennis is often followed by a night of very unpleasant cramping, so

> I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas on what I might eat or drink

> before, during and after exercise to try to effectively rehydrate and

> replace electrolytes without resorting to toxic sugar-water crap like

> Gatorade, which obviously I'm just not going to drink.

I know you don't like coconut water because of its sugar content, but

it is great for hydrating and replenishing electrolytes. You might do

like once did and kefirize it.

I have found that cream after workouts is pretty nice. For that matter

I would think that kefir would work as well.

> More generally, I thought the larger subject of sports nutrition

might

> be interesting. I've noticed that regular consumption of raw liver

> improves my reflexes fairly substantially, and now that more serious

> players are coming back to the courts, I'm finally getting motivated

> to go back to eating liver a few times a week.

Did you initally drop it because of personal issues or you simply got

away from it or its not your favorite food item to begin with?

> Does anyone have

> similar or different or related experiences or observations? What

> does the available scientific literature tell us about athletic

> performance and genuinely healthy eating?

Do those two go together, at least in the literature? :-)

--

" A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents

and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents

eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with

it. " Max Planck

[Guest guest]

This is from the candida group....it is nice an simple and you can

sweeten it if you like it... I thought that the AVC/SeaSalt/molasses

one would also be fine and you could cut the molasses to 1 tsp and

add stevia to sweeten if needed...

Bee's Electrolyte Drink

© Copyright Bee Wilder

6 ounces of water.

The juice of 1/2 lemon (freshly squeezed).

1/4 teaspoon ocean sea salt, like Celtic or Himalayan.

Stevia sweetener to taste (optional).

Mix all ingredients together in a 6 ounce glass.

--- In , Idol <paul.idol@...>

wrote:

>

> So woe is me, it's getting uncomfortably warm... and for me, that

> means lots and lots and lots of sweating, particularly when I'm

> playing ultimate frisbee or tennis. In the warmer months, a day

of

> tennis is often followed by a night of very unpleasant cramping,

so

> I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas on what I might eat or drink

> before, during and after exercise to try to effectively rehydrate

and

> replace electrolytes without resorting to toxic sugar-water crap

like

> Gatorade, which obviously I'm just not going to drink.

>

> More generally, I thought the larger subject of sports nutrition

might

> be interesting. I've noticed that regular consumption of raw

liver

> improves my reflexes fairly substantially, and now that more

serious

> players are coming back to the courts, I'm finally getting

motivated

> to go back to eating liver a few times a week. Does anyone have

> similar or different or related experiences or observations? What

> does the available scientific literature tell us about athletic

> performance and genuinely healthy eating?

>

> -

>

[Guest guest]

Jo,

have you tried the Potassium Broth in NT on p. 609?

>

> Hi and ,

>

> I'm experimenting with a potassium broth:

> http://ezinearticles.com/?Potassium-Broth & id=418109

>

> Gatorade contains bromated vegetable oils.

> Bromine blocks the absorption of iodine that is needed by every cell

> in the body.

> Bromine has a weight that is very similar to iodine and this causes

> it to compete for binding in the body. Bromine and iodine are both

> halogens and they have a similar atomic weight. Bromine is added to

> flour because it is used as a dough conditioner. It's also found in

> carbonated drinks such as Mountain Dew, AMP Energy Drink and some

> Gatorade products. Bromine intoxication (i.e. bromism) has been shown

> to cause delirium, psychomotor retardation, schizophrenia, and

> hallucination. People with bromine intoxication feel dull and

> apathetic and have difficulty concentrating. Bromine can also cause

> severe depression, headaches, and irritability.

>

[Guest guest]

hi paul,

that's interesting about the raw liver. i haven't tried that myself

yet. what i have tried though, which seems to be working well, is the

water cure (based on dr. batmanghelid's findings): adding salt to

water to hydrate the cells and keep electrolyte balance.

http://www.watercure2.org/. the site mentions that if you get cramps,

you may want to include more calcium since it can lower potassium

(calcium supposedly keeps it in check).

i've also been reading that adding chia seeds to water can help

sustain hydration. the chumash (among others) used it like pinole and

it is said that one tablespoon a day can sustain a person on a trek

for one day. i just got back from a camping trip and adding salt and

whole chia seeds to my water definitely seemed to hydrate me better.

cheers,

sabine.

>

In the warmer months, a day of

> tennis is often followed by a night of very unpleasant cramping, so

> I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas on what I might eat or drink

> before, during and after exercise to try to effectively rehydrate and

> replace electrolytes