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For a long time everytime I looked at the fat Canadian Geese, I felt

like poaching one (everybody here hates them because there are so

many but they are beautiful to me - but fat and obviously very meaty!)

I was the kid who made my Dad stop hunting by telling him if he

killed Bambi, I'd stop loving him! (I think I was 4 at the time).

I've kind of got this thing, if we eat meat, we need to be involved

in the death at least once so we really " get " where it comes from.

But even thinking that would give me nightmares of putting my

daughter in the oven as if she were a turkey!

We took our overgrown turkey to the butchers this week because she

was annoying everyone by sneaking up behind you and then pecking you,

walking up and threatening you whenever you go outside, and blocking

the doorways so nobody can get in or out (and attacking the hens over

food - they all bear scars). The kids had stopped playing outside

because of her.

The carcass was impressive. So much meat on such a small frame! We

don't have batteries in the scale just now, but I think it weighed

around 40 lb when we got it back, but maybe more. I wound up cutting

each breast into two portions and they still look like too much for a

meal and leftovers. The fat is bright yellow and the broth I made

looked like someone had thrown in a pound of butter, very unnatural

compared to what we're used to where even the " Pastured turkeys " we

get at the farmer's market had close to white fat.

But so far nobody wants to eat it. We're going to freeze it all and

wait for the memories to fade a little, but I'm really struggling to

make enough room in the chest freezer! And we have to get used to

the yellowness of it. I know it's good, but it's just unexpected to

see a meat you expect to be white have so much yellow.

Maybe she was so grumpy because her bones were stressed. The

skeleton was rather small for a turkey and the meat was rather a LOT!

>

> Recently several ladies posted that they were becoming interested

in hunting for food that is more natively fed. I seen this article

and found it interesting. Are any of you posters following up on your

hunting?

> http://www.star-telegram.com/news/story/1013089.html

>

>  

>

>

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I, too, have been eyeballing those fat geese out there.  But what stops me

(besides not being able to shoot in the city limits) is that they are an example

of what little " wild " is left around me.  I can understand raising animals for

food, but to go out and blow away something wild in this day and age?  It

doesn't feel right.  We are already taking away their water, their wild spaces,

their food supplies....to take their lives is perhaps the final blow? 

 

I can understand the self-reliant urge to do so, but unless you are a poor weary

traveller with only a pack on your back and a gun on your side, then I can't

come up with any reasons to kill wild things anymore.  You wanna kill

something?  Then raise them on your own land, protect them, nourish them...and

then, provide for your family.  Anything else is simply sport.

 

Deb in NC

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well, depends on the quarry. here in western pennsylvania we don't have too

many wolves and consequently the deer population is through the roof to the

enormous detriment of the remaining forests. plant / tree diversity is way

down and a trip to fenced enclosures which keep the deer out is a real eye

opener. so, until the wolves and mountain lions regain some semblance of

parity with the deer, hunters are sorely needed to get back to a more

natural balance.

as to the geese, i'd question their meat value to folks looking for healthy

chow. all those manicured lawns they chomp on are likely to be reasonably

well pesticided...

oliver...

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Debra <purple66moon@...> wrote:

> I, too, have been eyeballing those fat geese out there. But what stops

> me (besides not being able to shoot in the city limits) is that they are an

> example of what little " wild " is left around me. I can understand raising

> animals for food, but to go out and blow away something wild in this day and

> age? It doesn't feel right. We are already taking away their water, their

> wild spaces, their food supplies....to take their lives is perhaps the final

> blow?

>

> I can understand the self-reliant urge to do so, but unless you are a poor

> weary traveller with only a pack on your back and a gun on your side, then I

> can't come up with any reasons to kill wild things anymore. You wanna kill

> something? Then raise them on your own land, protect them, nourish

> them...and then, provide for your family. Anything else is simply sport.

>

> Deb in NC

>

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I agree with just about everything you've said, and I'm not a hunter,

but at the same time, wild animals are about the only ones anymore

who are able to range enough to meet their mineral needs because

domestic animals are confined to a smaller areas as property gets

divided up and are stuck with the mineral make-up of wherever they

land, for good or ill. Of course we can use companies like Fertrell

to do soil analyses and tell us what to add, but I know I don't

actually do that (yet).

Certain wild animals have benefitted from the changes we bring, like

deer, squirrels, foxes, Canadian geese, pigeons and doves. Their

populations are actually higher than before we took over the land and

settled it. I've read there is no need to get a license to kill

doves because they aren't in any danger whatsoever of being killed

out, probably because they can hatch two eggs every two weeks for as

long as the weather is decent. But they're a little on the small

side to justify taking a life, to me.

Audubon did an article awhile back on the white-tailed deer problem

in the Northeast. There is such a huge population of the deer that

they are wiping out native plants by eating them before they get tall

enough to survive the browsing. This creates problems for the birds

who need the fruit, seeds, etc. of the plants because the species

left in many areas are only the ones that are very unpalatable to the

deer, and not enough diversity to supply year-round food for birds.

So killing deer, at least around here, is a huge favor to the

wildlife that is burdened by our presence. In my area, nobody has

normal looking cedars because the deer prune them as high as they can

reach. They eat elderberries to the ground too and also are wiping

out the wild strawberries.

--- In , Debra <purple66moon@...>

wrote:

>

> I, too, have been eyeballing those fat geese out there.  But what

stops me (besides not being able to shoot in the city limits) is that

they are an example of what little " wild " is left around me.  I can

understand raising animals for food, but to go out and blow away

something wild in this day and age?  It doesn't feel right.  We are

already taking away their water, their wild spaces, their food

supplies....to take their lives is perhaps the final blow? 

>  

> I can understand the self-reliant urge to do so, but unless you are

a poor weary traveller with only a pack on your back and a gun on

your side, then I can't come up with any reasons to kill wild things

anymore.  You wanna kill something?  Then raise them on your own

land, protect them, nourish them...and then, provide for your

family.  Anything else is simply sport.

>  

> Deb in NC

>

>

>

>

>

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On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 4:41 AM, haecklers <haecklers@...> wrote:

> For a long time everytime I looked at the fat Canadian Geese, I felt

> like poaching one (everybody here hates them because there are so

> many but they are beautiful to me - but fat and obviously very meaty!)

The ones around here are fat, but their diets suck, since they are fed

junk food scraps by so many people. However if it meant the difference

between eating and going hungry, I certainly wouldn't hesitate to

bring one home.

--

Buffalo too, has beautiful summers but not this year. Cool and rainy.

For the first time in ten years, we never installed the air

conditioners. My line on all this is, somebody better do something

about global warming before I freeze to death. - Ostrowski

" If you're not on somebody's watch list, you're not doing your job " -

Dave Von Kleist

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I knew some farm worker immigrants who couldn't work b/c of cancer

and the wife used to feed the pigeons until they got close enough

that she could grab one, and that was their dinner when they were

homeless. I imagine the pigeon's diets were pretty scary too with

the poison people put out to get rid of them but it helped the family

get by until they found some help.

> > For a long time everytime I looked at the fat Canadian Geese, I

felt

> > like poaching one (everybody here hates them because there are so

> > many but they are beautiful to me - but fat and obviously very

meaty!)

>

> The ones around here are fat, but their diets suck, since they are

fed

> junk food scraps by so many people. However if it meant the

difference

> between eating and going hungry, I certainly wouldn't hesitate to

> bring one home.

>

>

> --

> Buffalo too, has beautiful summers but not this year. Cool and

rainy.

> For the first time in ten years, we never installed the air

> conditioners. My line on all this is, somebody better do something

> about global warming before I freeze to death. - Ostrowski

>

> " If you're not on somebody's watch list, you're not doing your

job " -

> Dave Von Kleist

>

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>

> I understand where you're coming from, but properly managed, hunting

> can actually help maintain wild spaces by creating demand for them --

> and hunters can also help manage populations that would ordinarily

> tend to be generally self-correcting due to other predators which have

> been squeezed out by human activity.

>

> -

>

>

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It's interesting that the deer are overpopulating because we have been hunting

down their predators, the wolves.  So now we have to kill the deer.  Seems like

we're chasing our collective tails about all this?...

I know I must be out of the natural loop when I can't fathom eating a squirrel,

a pigeon, or a...dove?  At some point, its akin to killing wild cats and dogs. 

Yeah, they have meat on them, but hellooo.  

Besides, you are correct about the pesticides these little guys are consuming. 

If we're having health problems from our food supplies, I can just imagine what

the animals are ingesting.  I see highway and business lawn people spraying

allll sorts of chemicals on the lawns, roadsides (where I see quite a few

nibblers), flowers, bushes, and my favorite is where they spray mushrooms who

spring from the ground after the rains because " they aren't pretty enough " ....

Dang, this is a depressing thread....forget I brought this up...ack.

Deb in NC

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i agree. from what i understand as well, the natives used to hunt until their

population would significantly decrease (to a point that today's people may be

concerned), but it would actually cause them to repopulate to even greater

numbers.

sabine.

>>I understand where you're coming from, but properly managed, hunting

can actually help maintain wild spaces by creating demand for them --

and hunters can also help manage populations that would ordinarily

tend to be generally self-correcting due to other predators which have

been squeezed out by human activity.<<

-

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Yeah, they claim that the deer have one fawn a year when crowded and

twins when there is less density.

'Course I've seen plenty with twins in this overcrowded area.

>

> i agree. from what i understand as well, the natives used to hunt

until their population would significantly decrease (to a point that

today's people may be concerned), but it would actually cause them to

repopulate to even greater numbers.

>

> sabine.

>

> >>I understand where you're coming from, but properly managed, hunting

> can actually help maintain wild spaces by creating demand for them --

> and hunters can also help manage populations that would ordinarily

> tend to be generally self-correcting due to other predators which have

> been squeezed out by human activity.<<

>

> -

>

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The more there is to eat the more likely they are to have twins. Folks

will sometimes " over feed " their goats to produce more young.

Belinda

> >

> > i agree. from what i understand as well, the natives used to hunt

> until their population would significantly decrease (to a point that

> today's people may be concerned), but it would actually cause them to

> repopulate to even greater numbers.

> >

> > sabine.

> >

> > >>I understand where you're coming from, but properly managed, hunting

> > can actually help maintain wild spaces by creating demand for them --

> > and hunters can also help manage populations that would ordinarily

> > tend to be generally self-correcting due to other predators which have

> > been squeezed out by human activity.<<

> >

> > -

> >

>

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you've hit it on the head. here in the northeast it is quite non-pc to bring

back wolves so the deer run unchecked for the most part due to a declining

hunter population. interestingly, the deer are more overpopulated in the

suburbs than in the large game and state forest areas because they've

overgrazed those to the point that there isn't enough vegetation left to

sustain large populations. in the suburbs and agricultural areas though, we

keep planting more and more stuff for them to eat so they explode population

wise and you see many more roadkill.

oliver...

On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Debra <purple66moon@...> wrote:

> It's interesting that the deer are overpopulating because we have been

> hunting down their predators, the wolves. So now we have to kill the deer.

> Seems like we're chasing our collective tails about all this?...

>

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Yeah, you wouldn't believe it if you didn't live here. I can count

right now 5 deer I know of lying on the side of the roads in a 3 mile

radius of my house, and that's just the roads I frequent! Every

house on my street has someone in it who has wrecked a car by

hitting a deer - except us, so I'm getting nervous. In the last

month, two have jumped right in front of me when I was driving but I

stopped in time.

I've heard there is about a fox per acre or something ridiculous like

that, but you rarely see them. I'd bet they can get by almost

without hunting just from eating roadkill. We also have an abundant

squirrel population and I'd guess I could count around 15-20 dead

squirrels on the roads in the same area. We also have huge skunk and

raccoon populations - it's pretty surprising how well they adapt to

living in our backyards! If it weren't illegal to fire weapons in

the suburbs, I'd guess a homeowner with an acre could supply a lot of

their meat needs from the backyard without making a serious dent in

the wildlife population.

>

> > It's interesting that the deer are overpopulating because we

have been

> > hunting down their predators, the wolves. So now we have to kill

the deer.

> > Seems like we're chasing our collective tails about all this?...

> >

>

>

>

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