Guest guest Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 I ran this idea over with my department head today and he thought it made sense. " Ketone breath " occurs when the main ketone that you use for energy spontaneously dissociates into acetone and carbon dioxide in the blood. Acetone is useless so it is expired -- this makes your breath smell/taste like paint thinner. Since carbon dioxide is a product of the reaction, higher blood levels of CO2 should suppress the reaction. When energy utilization is efficient -- that is, when oxygen supply is good, B vitamins are sufficient, CoQ10 is sufficient, heme iron is sufficient, and dietary PUFAs are low -- then ketones and glucose are fully broken down into ATP, yielding water and CO2. However, when energy utilization is inefficient because any of the above conditions are not present, less CO2 is made and more lactic acid is made. Lactic acid will be secreted into the blood (and less CO2 will be secreted) and the pH will drop. The body will neutralize the pH drop by expiring more CO2, which itself is acidic. Blood levels of CO2 will drop. This will hasten the breakdown of useful ketones into acetone and CO2. Ketone breath will develop. So, if you get ketone breath when you low-carb, consider normalizing any of the above conditions, or any others you can think of that may lead to compromised energy processing. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 Interesting, do you think that would account for the bad breath that can happen during a fast as well? I don't think it smells like paint thinner, tho. Would that be poisonous?? > > I ran this idea over with my department head today and he thought it made sense. > > " Ketone breath " occurs when the main ketone that you use for energy > spontaneously dissociates into acetone and carbon dioxide in the > blood. Acetone is useless so it is expired -- this makes your breath > smell/taste like paint thinner. > > Since carbon dioxide is a product of the reaction, higher blood levels > of CO2 should suppress the reaction. > > When energy utilization is efficient -- that is, when oxygen supply is > good, B vitamins are sufficient, CoQ10 is sufficient, heme iron is > sufficient, and dietary PUFAs are low -- then ketones and glucose are > fully broken down into ATP, yielding water and CO2. However, when > energy utilization is inefficient because any of the above conditions > are not present, less CO2 is made and more lactic acid is made. > > Lactic acid will be secreted into the blood (and less CO2 will be > secreted) and the pH will drop. The body will neutralize the pH drop > by expiring more CO2, which itself is acidic. > > Blood levels of CO2 will drop. This will hasten the breakdown of > useful ketones into acetone and CO2. Ketone breath will develop. > > So, if you get ketone breath when you low-carb, consider normalizing > any of the above conditions, or any others you can think of that may > lead to compromised energy processing. > > Chris > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2008 Report Share Posted November 14, 2008 Maybe, but there could be other factors. You definitely go into ketosis when you fast. What's being released is acetone. I don't know if all paint thinner is made from acetone, but some is as far as I know. It would be poisonous if it weren't for the fact that you expire most of it (so would most other things you excrete if you didn't excrete them). Chris On 11/13/08, haecklers <haecklers@...> wrote: > Interesting, do you think that would account for the bad breath that > can happen during a fast as well? I don't think it smells like paint > thinner, tho. Would that be poisonous?? > > >> >> I ran this idea over with my department head today and he thought > it made sense. >> >> " Ketone breath " occurs when the main ketone that you use for energy >> spontaneously dissociates into acetone and carbon dioxide in the >> blood. Acetone is useless so it is expired -- this makes your > breath >> smell/taste like paint thinner. >> >> Since carbon dioxide is a product of the reaction, higher blood > levels >> of CO2 should suppress the reaction. >> >> When energy utilization is efficient -- that is, when oxygen supply > is >> good, B vitamins are sufficient, CoQ10 is sufficient, heme iron is >> sufficient, and dietary PUFAs are low -- then ketones and glucose > are >> fully broken down into ATP, yielding water and CO2. However, when >> energy utilization is inefficient because any of the above > conditions >> are not present, less CO2 is made and more lactic acid is made. >> >> Lactic acid will be secreted into the blood (and less CO2 will be >> secreted) and the pH will drop. The body will neutralize the pH > drop >> by expiring more CO2, which itself is acidic. >> >> Blood levels of CO2 will drop. This will hasten the breakdown of >> useful ketones into acetone and CO2. Ketone breath will develop. >> >> So, if you get ketone breath when you low-carb, consider normalizing >> any of the above conditions, or any others you can think of that may >> lead to compromised energy processing. >> >> Chris >> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 Renate, > Interesting, do you think that would account for the bad breath that > can happen during a fast as well? I don't think it smells like paint > thinner, tho. Would that be poisonous?? I've noticed that when I do not eat for a while, I get bad breath. Eating is the best solution, but drinking water also helps substantially, though I would have to drink more water than normal. I wonder, then, if this could be ammonia. During fasting ketogenesis increases, but so does protein breakdown. So maybe when water is insufficient to allow the urination of the ammonia that is formed as a byproduct, some ammonia is excreted in the breath. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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