evidence for US gov't complicity in 9/11 attacks? (was: Conspiracy theories - evidence-based vs. non evidence-based)

[Guest guest]

> I watched about 30 minutes of Fabled Enemies. A total piece of crap,

> and wasn't convincing in the least.

I get the feeling that if I told you there was a nose in the middle of your

face you wouldn't be convinced in the least and would dismiss it as a

paranoid conspiracy theory.

Who said that the first 30 minutes of any documentary would *convince*

anyone that there was gov't complicity in the 9/11 attacks? As I've been

saying all along it is the *totality* of the evidence that I and many others

find convincing - not *one* documentary or *one* lecture or *one* book. And

certainly not just the first 30 minutes of one documentary.

>

> Thus far, I believe that all of the news sources have been from Fox

> News. Fox news is simply not a trustworthy source. One example of an

> extremely irresponsible bit of news/documentary from Fox - the recent

> hour long Obama expose using Andy as a source.

Obviously, you were not paying close attention then. In the first 15 minutes

of Fabled Enemies the NY Times was cited twice, Newsweek was cited twice,

ABC news once, The Guardian once, and Judicial Watch once among others, but

more importantly, first_person_testimony was given on several important

subjects.

I agree that Fox News is, on the whole, not a trustworthy source, and I'll

raise you one and charge that they serve as a propaganda machine for the Neo

Cons. Because of this, whenever they report on something that sheds a

*negative* light on the Neo Cons, I find them more credible than the other

99% of the time they spend bashing liberals.

Secondly, the first Fox News report mentioned in the film was also reported

by the NY Times - this is the issue of several of the hijackers being

trained at US military bases in the US. The NY Times reported that the

Defense Dept. said that the lead hijacker, Mohammed Atta, had gone to the

International Officers School at Maxwell Air Force Base in AL., and that two

of the others were at other military installations.

But far more important than these news reports is the first person

testimonial of Springmann which started about 7 mins into the video.

Springmann was the chief of the visa department at the US Consulate in

Jeddah, Saudi Arabia and he testified that the consulate was essentially run

by the CIA and was used to funnel in and protect Islamic terrorists.

Springmann explains that his superiors overrode his decision to deny visas

to over 100 applicants including several of the 9/11 hijackers. In one

example he describes an unemployed refugee from the Sudan who's application

he denied but his superiors overrode telling him it was for " national

security purposes: "

Springmann goes on to explain that he believes these folks were being

recruited as CIA assets. And then explains the role that bin Laden played as

a CIA asset during the Afghan war against the Soviets.

Springmann's testimony is one piece in the large body of evidence strongly

suggesting US gov't complicity in the attacks on 9/11.

A few more things worth noting in the first 15 mins of the documentary:

Ten minutes into the documentary it discusses the NY Times report that 2 of

the hijackers lived with an FBI informant.

FBI investigator O'Neil was the FBI's counter terrorism chief in charge

of investigating bin Laden and he testified that as he got close his

investigation was shut down. On Aug 22, 2001, after he repeatedly claimed

that his investigation into bin Laden was obstructed, he left the FBI. He

then took on the job of head of security at the WTC and was killed in the

attacks.

This is very interesting in light of the fact that the head of the FBI

claims the agency doesn't have sufficient evidence against bin Laden to

charge him with the 9/11 attacks. So the agency is charging him with several

other previous terrorist attacks, but it doesn't list 9/11 as one of bin

Laden's crimes.

Also interesting that W. Bush's brother and cousin are principles in

the company that provided security for the WTC...

Next, Fabled Enemies shows testimony from Judicial Watch members who are

trying to help FBI agent who came forward to say that his

investigation into bin Laden had been blocked by the FBI and he went so far

as to *sue* the FBI to allow him to tell the public the truth.

Everything I've mentioned above was covered in the first *15* mins of the

documentatry. I don't have time to go over the other 15 mins that you were

so gracious to watch.

Had you followed through and watched more of it you would've seen Barry

Jennings' unedited testimony. Jennings was the deputy director of emergency

management services and was with city counsel Hess in building 7

before any of the towers fell. He testifies on camera that there were

explosions below them while they were on the 8th floor and that, in fact,

the floor had blown out from underneath them and he found himself hanging

from a beam. This happened *before* either of the Twin Towers fell. Then, as

he was being led out by fireman he was told not to look down, he says,

because they were stepping over bodies in the *lobby* of building 7.

Where did those bodies come from? Building 7 only had a few sporadic fires

as it was a football field length away from the Twin Towers. Why did so many

people testify that they heard explosions in all three buildings? Why are

squibs visible on video footage in floors below those falling? (Squibs are

the characteristic puffs of smoke coming out windows when each floor is

exploded in a controlled demolition). There are so many " whys " surrounding

the collapses of these three buildings, but especially building 7. What do

*you* think caused its collapse?

And why did Barry Jennings ask the producers of Loose Change (the first

documentary showing his interview) to edit out key portions of the interview

because he was afraid to lose his job? And why did Barry Jennings die two

months ago today -less than two weeks before Fabled Enemies was released?

Why isn't his cause of death being released? If he died of respiratory

complications from 9/11 why not just release that info and put a rest to the

speculation about the cause of death of a key witness of 9/11?

> If Fabled Enemies is the best you've got, I just have to laugh.

In and of itself it is not the *best* source of evidence supporting the

claim that there was US gov't complicity in 9/11, but as I've repeatedly

stated it (as well as other lectures, documentaries and books I've

mentioned) offers pieces of evidence, that when looked at within the context

of the larger body of evidence, is certainly a valuable asset.

Suze