Guest guest Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 and group- If I may digress and pick up on another related topic.... I am curious about your daily patient orientation class. We have toyed with this for our rehab patients . One of our patient satisfaction questions is about how well " you were informed about what your stay would be like " . Could you tell me : who attends this ( patient and or family, diagnoses) )? what diagnoses are you seeing? who teaches it? and what time of the day do you offer it? is a " required " activity for families? Do you also do a family conference and is that " mandatory " . Thanks for letting me digress Marcy Stalvey, PT, NCS Edwin Shaw Rehab Akron, OH >>> jweiss@... 01/11/08 03:39PM >>> Agree with Curtis. We also have an established discharge time of 11:00 from our rehab. One thing that helps (but does not completely resolve the issue) is that we inform both the patients upon admission (we have a patient orientation class daily) of the 11:00 discharge. Then we tell their families on the first phone call from our discharge planners when calling with the discharge date (usually within a few days of admission) that 11:00 is our discharge time. That way they aren't surprised later, and hopefully don't feel like we are kicking them out. This is reinforced to the family again when they come in for a family instruction day. That is not to say we still don't have families who refuse to come get their relatives until later due to not wanting to take time off of work, but we do our best and it usually works out. Docs and equipment issues are generally not a problem for us with regards to the time of discharge. Hope this helps- Weiss, PT Inpatient Rehab Coordinator Ingalls Memorial Hospital Harvey, IL ________________________________ From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of Curtis Marti Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 1:58 PM To: PTManager Subject: RE: Medicare question / 11 am discharge Ms. Rehder, We've pushed for a while now to get discharges from our IRF before 11:00 a.m. but several obstacles have prevented doing so. 1) The patient wanting to stay for lunch before leaving, 2) The patient not having the necessary transportation to go home until mid-afternoon, 3) hold ups receiving the necessary d/c orders, adaptive equipment, etc. I see it as a customer service issue. If you " boot " them too early it may put a sour note on an otherwise positive rehab stay. Thanks, Curtis ________________________________ From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Carol Rehder Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 1:24 PM To: ptmanager <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: Medicare question / 11 am discharge Your intermediary is correct. On another note, how many inpatient facilities out there established expected patient discharge times of 11 am (for example) and if so, how is it going over? How did you get the docs all on board? Have you seen a positive impact on LOS and increase in available beds as the research indicates? What problems has it caused? Carol Rehder, PT Manager, Physical Therapy Genesis Medical Center rehder@genesis@...<mailto:genesis%40genesishealth.com> <mailto:genesis%40genesishealth.com> >>> " Jeff LePage " <fcpt@...<mailto:fcpt%40mtaonline.net> <mailto:fcpt%40mtaonline.net> > 1/11/2008 1:01 PM >>> I have this situation: A rural health clinic has an M.D. medical director that is not there every day. Staff is primarily LPN's and PA-C's. Patient comes in to my clinic telling me that their " doctor " is one of the LPN's. 2 months ago the patient went to see the LPN and was referred to PT. For various reasons the patient held on to the script for 2 months and then called to schedule. I told her that too much time had gone by and that she should schedule another appointment with her " doctor " since so much time had gone by. She did; the LPN wasn't available this time around so she was seen by the by the M.D. who filled out a new script with the identical wording as the initial script by the LPN for PT. I send the Eval to the MD and am told that it this isn't their patient and to send it to the LPN. If I send the Plan of Care to the LPN as the referring provider and she signs it do I still need a new script from the LPN...This is a Medicare patient. Another question: Can a " non M.D. " provider refer a Medicare patient for outpatient PT? Just talked with my intermediary and was told that only an M.D. is authorized to refer a Medicare beneficiary for outpatient PT??? Jeff LePage, PT First Choice Physical Therapy Wasilla, Alaska Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Marcy- Our orientation class is scheduled daily M-F with each patient on the day following their admission (or Monday for Fri/Sat/Sun admits). Families are also welcome and encouraged to come, but often they are not there. We only schedule this with cognitively intact (at least relatively) patients, although we do invite families of cognitively-impaired patients to come. We go over everything from what to expect while they are here, what a typical day will be like, what kinds of " extras " are available to them during their stay (i.e. daily newspaper, chapel services, how to order different choices from the menu, etc etc), how and when things will be communicated regarding discharge, who the key members of the team are.... Things like that. Patients are not separated with regards to diagnoses - generally we have therapy or RT groups that are more diagnosis-specific during their stay. We also have a Family Instruction and Conference scheduled with EVERY patient prior to discharge (usually several days prior). It is usually scheduled in the afternoon, and essentially the family member or caregiver goes to each therapy with the patient, where they receive training (or just observe and learn how patient is doing if no specific training is needed) from each different discipline, including a session with nursing and RT, and finally ending last with the discharge planner to go over final details about discharge and follow-up therapy/equipment/transportation needs. You ask if it is mandatory... well, it is scheduled with everyone, but that is not to say we don't have sessions where the families don't show up! We do not allow that to hold up discharge. Hope that helps, and let me know if you have any other questions. Weiss, PT Inpatient Rehab Coordinator Ingalls Memorial Hospital Harvey, IL ________________________________ From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of Marcy Stalvey Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 7:48 AM To: PTManager Subject: RE: RE: Patient orientation class and group- If I may digress and pick up on another related topic.... I am curious about your daily patient orientation class. We have toyed with this for our rehab patients . One of our patient satisfaction questions is about how well " you were informed about what your stay would be like " . Could you tell me : who attends this ( patient and or family, diagnoses) )? what diagnoses are you seeing? who teaches it? and what time of the day do you offer it? is a " required " activity for families? Do you also do a family conference and is that " mandatory " . Thanks for letting me digress Marcy Stalvey, PT, NCS Edwin Shaw Rehab Akron, OH >>> jweiss@...<mailto:jweiss%40ingalls.org> 01/11/08 03:39PM >>> Agree with Curtis. We also have an established discharge time of 11:00 from our rehab. One thing that helps (but does not completely resolve the issue) is that we inform both the patients upon admission (we have a patient orientation class daily) of the 11:00 discharge. Then we tell their families on the first phone call from our discharge planners when calling with the discharge date (usually within a few days of admission) that 11:00 is our discharge time. That way they aren't surprised later, and hopefully don't feel like we are kicking them out. This is reinforced to the family again when they come in for a family instruction day. That is not to say we still don't have families who refuse to come get their relatives until later due to not wanting to take time off of work, but we do our best and it usually works out. Docs and equipment issues are generally not a problem for us with regards to the time of discharge. Hope this helps- Weiss, PT Inpatient Rehab Coordinator Ingalls Memorial Hospital Harvey, IL ________________________________ From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Curtis Marti Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 1:58 PM To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: Medicare question / 11 am discharge Ms. Rehder, We've pushed for a while now to get discharges from our IRF before 11:00 a.m. but several obstacles have prevented doing so. 1) The patient wanting to stay for lunch before leaving, 2) The patient not having the necessary transportation to go home until mid-afternoon, 3) hold ups receiving the necessary d/c orders, adaptive equipment, etc. I see it as a customer service issue. If you " boot " them too early it may put a sour note on an otherwise positive rehab stay. Thanks, Curtis ________________________________ From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:PTManager%4\ 0yahoogroups.com> [mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:PTM\ anager%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Carol Rehder Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 1:24 PM To: ptmanager <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:ptmanager%4\ 0yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: Medicare question / 11 am discharge Your intermediary is correct. On another note, how many inpatient facilities out there established expected patient discharge times of 11 am (for example) and if so, how is it going over? How did you get the docs all on board? Have you seen a positive impact on LOS and increase in available beds as the research indicates? What problems has it caused? Carol Rehder, PT Manager, Physical Therapy Genesis Medical Center rehder@genesis@...<mailto:genesis%40genesishealth.com><mailto:gene\ sis%40genesishealth.com> <mailto:genesis%40genesishealth.com> >>> " Jeff LePage " <fcpt@...<mailto:fcpt%40mtaonline.net><mailto:fcpt%40mtaonline.net> <mailto:fcpt%40mtaonline.net> > 1/11/2008 1:01 PM >>> I have this situation: A rural health clinic has an M.D. medical director that is not there every day. Staff is primarily LPN's and PA-C's. Patient comes in to my clinic telling me that their " doctor " is one of the LPN's. 2 months ago the patient went to see the LPN and was referred to PT. For various reasons the patient held on to the script for 2 months and then called to schedule. I told her that too much time had gone by and that she should schedule another appointment with her " doctor " since so much time had gone by. She did; the LPN wasn't available this time around so she was seen by the by the M.D. who filled out a new script with the identical wording as the initial script by the LPN for PT. I send the Eval to the MD and am told that it this isn't their patient and to send it to the LPN. If I send the Plan of Care to the LPN as the referring provider and she signs it do I still need a new script from the LPN...This is a Medicare patient. Another question: Can a " non M.D. " provider refer a Medicare patient for outpatient PT? Just talked with my intermediary and was told that only an M.D. is authorized to refer a Medicare beneficiary for outpatient PT??? Jeff LePage, PT First Choice Physical Therapy Wasilla, Alaska Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 - Thanks so much for the detailed answer. One more question- who is teaching the orientation class? Therapists? nurses? I am impressed that you are able to not let the families lack of attendance at the Training and D/c conference hold up d/c. We strongly encourage family conferences Early in the stay ( first 5-10 days, after first team conference) but find we are often scrambling at the end with hands on training. Many thanks again. Marcy Stalvey, PT, MS, NCS Edwin Shaw Rehab Akron, Oh 44312 >>> jweiss@... 01/14/08 01:06PM >>> Marcy- Our orientation class is scheduled daily M-F with each patient on the day following their admission (or Monday for Fri/Sat/Sun admits). Families are also welcome and encouraged to come, but often they are not there. We only schedule this with cognitively intact (at least relatively) patients, although we do invite families of cognitively-impaired patients to come. We go over everything from what to expect while they are here, what a typical day will be like, what kinds of " extras " are available to them during their stay (i.e. daily newspaper, chapel services, how to order different choices from the menu, etc etc), how and when things will be communicated regarding discharge, who the key members of the team are.... Things like that. Patients are not separated with regards to diagnoses - generally we have therapy or RT groups that are more diagnosis-specific during their stay. We also have a Family Instruction and Conference scheduled with EVERY patient prior to discharge (usually several days prior). It is usually scheduled in the afternoon, and essentially the family member or caregiver goes to each therapy with the patient, where they receive training (or just observe and learn how patient is doing if no specific training is needed) from each different discipline, including a session with nursing and RT, and finally ending last with the discharge planner to go over final details about discharge and follow-up therapy/equipment/transportation needs. You ask if it is mandatory... well, it is scheduled with everyone, but that is not to say we don't have sessions where the families don't show up! We do not allow that to hold up discharge. Hope that helps, and let me know if you have any other questions. Weiss, PT Inpatient Rehab Coordinator Ingalls Memorial Hospital Harvey, IL ________________________________ From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of Marcy Stalvey Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 7:48 AM To: PTManager Subject: RE: RE: Patient orientation class and group- If I may digress and pick up on another related topic.... I am curious about your daily patient orientation class. We have toyed with this for our rehab patients . One of our patient satisfaction questions is about how well " you were informed about what your stay would be like " . Could you tell me : who attends this ( patient and or family, diagnoses) )? what diagnoses are you seeing? who teaches it? and what time of the day do you offer it? is a " required " activity for families? Do you also do a family conference and is that " mandatory " . Thanks for letting me digress Marcy Stalvey, PT, NCS Edwin Shaw Rehab Akron, OH >>> jweiss@...<mailto:jweiss%40ingalls.org> 01/11/08 03:39PM >>> Agree with Curtis. We also have an established discharge time of 11:00 from our rehab. One thing that helps (but does not completely resolve the issue) is that we inform both the patients upon admission (we have a patient orientation class daily) of the 11:00 discharge. Then we tell their families on the first phone call from our discharge planners when calling with the discharge date (usually within a few days of admission) that 11:00 is our discharge time. That way they aren't surprised later, and hopefully don't feel like we are kicking them out. This is reinforced to the family again when they come in for a family instruction day. That is not to say we still don't have families who refuse to come get their relatives until later due to not wanting to take time off of work, but we do our best and it usually works out. Docs and equipment issues are generally not a problem for us with regards to the time of discharge. Hope this helps- Weiss, PT Inpatient Rehab Coordinator Ingalls Memorial Hospital Harvey, IL ________________________________ From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Curtis Marti Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 1:58 PM To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: Medicare question / 11 am discharge Ms. Rehder, We've pushed for a while now to get discharges from our IRF before 11:00 a.m. but several obstacles have prevented doing so. 1) The patient wanting to stay for lunch before leaving, 2) The patient not having the necessary transportation to go home until mid-afternoon, 3) hold ups receiving the necessary d/c orders, adaptive equipment, etc. I see it as a customer service issue. If you " boot " them too early it may put a sour note on an otherwise positive rehab stay. Thanks, Curtis ________________________________ From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:PTManager%4\ 0yahoogroups.com> [mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:PTM\ anager%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Carol Rehder Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 1:24 PM To: ptmanager <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:ptmanager%4\ 0yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: Medicare question / 11 am discharge Your intermediary is correct. On another note, how many inpatient facilities out there established expected patient discharge times of 11 am (for example) and if so, how is it going over? How did you get the docs all on board? Have you seen a positive impact on LOS and increase in available beds as the research indicates? What problems has it caused? Carol Rehder, PT Manager, Physical Therapy Genesis Medical Center rehder@genesis@...<mailto:genesis%40genesishealth.com><mailto:gene\ sis%40genesishealth.com> <mailto:genesis%40genesishealth.com> >>> " Jeff LePage " <fcpt@...<mailto:fcpt%40mtaonline.net><mailto:fcpt%40mtaonline.net> <mailto:fcpt%40mtaonline.net> > 1/11/2008 1:01 PM >>> I have this situation: A rural health clinic has an M.D. medical director that is not there every day. Staff is primarily LPN's and PA-C's. Patient comes in to my clinic telling me that their " doctor " is one of the LPN's. 2 months ago the patient went to see the LPN and was referred to PT. For various reasons the patient held on to the script for 2 months and then called to schedule. I told her that too much time had gone by and that she should schedule another appointment with her " doctor " since so much time had gone by. She did; the LPN wasn't available this time around so she was seen by the by the M.D. who filled out a new script with the identical wo have a patient orientation class rding as the initial script by the LPN for PT. I send the Eval to the MD and am told that it this isn't their patient and to send it to the LPN. If I send the Plan of Care to the LPN as the referring provider and she signs it do I still need a new script from the LPN...This is a Medicare patient. Another question: Can a " non M.D. " provider refer a Medicare patient for outpatient PT? Just talked with my intermediary and was told that only an M.D. is authorized to refer a Medicare beneficiary for outpatient PT??? Jeff LePage, PT First Choice Physical Therapy Wasilla, Alaska Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 We rotate who leads the class; between myself, the nurse manager, the PPS coordinator, the program assistant, and the ancillary staff supervisor. Also, I don't want to mislead you into thinking that our discharges all go off without a hitch! Sometimes when those families don't show up, we do have problems with discharge, but we make it clear that just because they didn't show up shouldn't change the discharge. In reality, sometimes it does because the families change their minds, etc, but we at least communicate to them that discharge will go on regardless of their attendance in instruction. ________________________________ From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of Marcy Stalvey Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 7:52 AM To: PTManager Subject: RE: RE: Patient orientation class - Thanks so much for the detailed answer. One more question- who is teaching the orientation class? Therapists? nurses? I am impressed that you are able to not let the families lack of attendance at the Training and D/c conference hold up d/c. We strongly encourage family conferences Early in the stay ( first 5-10 days, after first team conference) but find we are often scrambling at the end with hands on training. Many thanks again. Marcy Stalvey, PT, MS, NCS Edwin Shaw Rehab Akron, Oh 44312 >>> jweiss@...<mailto:jweiss%40ingalls.org> 01/14/08 01:06PM >>> Marcy- Our orientation class is scheduled daily M-F with each patient on the day following their admission (or Monday for Fri/Sat/Sun admits). Families are also welcome and encouraged to come, but often they are not there. We only schedule this with cognitively intact (at least relatively) patients, although we do invite families of cognitively-impaired patients to come. We go over everything from what to expect while they are here, what a typical day will be like, what kinds of " extras " are available to them during their stay (i.e. daily newspaper, chapel services, how to order different choices from the menu, etc etc), how and when things will be communicated regarding discharge, who the key members of the team are.... Things like that. Patients are not separated with regards to diagnoses - generally we have therapy or RT groups that are more diagnosis-specific during their stay. We also have a Family Instruction and Conference scheduled with EVERY patient prior to discharge (usually several days prior). It is usually scheduled in the afternoon, and essentially the family member or caregiver goes to each therapy with the patient, where they receive training (or just observe and learn how patient is doing if no specific training is needed) from each different discipline, including a session with nursing and RT, and finally ending last with the discharge planner to go over final details about discharge and follow-up therapy/equipment/transportation needs. You ask if it is mandatory... well, it is scheduled with everyone, but that is not to say we don't have sessions where the families don't show up! We do not allow that to hold up discharge. Hope that helps, and let me know if you have any other questions. Weiss, PT Inpatient Rehab Coordinator Ingalls Memorial Hospital Harvey, IL ________________________________ From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Marcy Stalvey Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 7:48 AM To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: RE: Patient orientation class and group- If I may digress and pick up on another related topic.... I am curious about your daily patient orientation class. We have toyed with this for our rehab patients . One of our patient satisfaction questions is about how well " you were informed about what your stay would be like " . Could you tell me : who attends this ( patient and or family, diagnoses) )? what diagnoses are you seeing? who teaches it? and what time of the day do you offer it? is a " required " activity for families? Do you also do a family conference and is that " mandatory " . Thanks for letting me digress Marcy Stalvey, PT, NCS Edwin Shaw Rehab Akron, OH >>> jweiss@...<mailto:jweiss%40ingalls.org><mailto:jweiss%40ingalls.org> 01/11/08 03:39PM >>> Agree with Curtis. We also have an established discharge time of 11:00 from our rehab. One thing that helps (but does not completely resolve the issue) is that we inform both the patients upon admission (we have a patient orientation class daily) of the 11:00 discharge. Then we tell their families on the first phone call from our discharge planners when calling with the discharge date (usually within a few days of admission) that 11:00 is our discharge time. That way they aren't surprised later, and hopefully don't feel like we are kicking them out. This is reinforced to the family again when they come in for a family instruction day. That is not to say we still don't have families who refuse to come get their relatives until later due to not wanting to take time off of work, but we do our best and it usually works out. Docs and equipment issues are generally not a problem for us with regards to the time of discharge. Hope this helps- Weiss, PT Inpatient Rehab Coordinator Ingalls Memorial Hospital Harvey, IL ________________________________ From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:PTManager%4\ 0yahoogroups.com> [mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:PTM\ anager%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Curtis Marti Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 1:58 PM To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:PTManager%4\ 0yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: Medicare question / 11 am discharge Ms. Rehder, We've pushed for a while now to get discharges from our IRF before 11:00 a.m. but several obstacles have prevented doing so. 1) The patient wanting to stay for lunch before leaving, 2) The patient not having the necessary transportation to go home until mid-afternoon, 3) hold ups receiving the necessary d/c orders, adaptive equipment, etc. I see it as a customer service issue. If you " boot " them too early it may put a sour note on an otherwise positive rehab stay. Thanks, Curtis ________________________________ From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:PTManager%4\ 0yahoogroups.com><mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:PTM\ anager%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Carol Rehder Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 1:24 PM To: ptmanager <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:ptmanager%4\ 0yahoogroups.com><mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: Medicare question / 11 am discharge Your intermediary is correct. On another note, how many inpatient facilities out there established expected patient discharge times of 11 am (for example) and if so, how is it going over? How did you get the docs all on board? Have you seen a positive impact on LOS and increase in available beds as the research indicates? What problems has it caused? Carol Rehder, PT Manager, Physical Therapy Genesis Medical Center rehder@genesis@...<mailto:genesis%40genesishealth.com><mailto:gene\ sis%40genesishealth.com><mailto:genesis%40genesishealth.com> <mailto:genesis%40genesishealth.com> >>> " Jeff LePage " <fcpt@...<mailto:fcpt%40mtaonline.net><mailto:fcpt%40mtaonline.net><ma\ ilto:fcpt%40mtaonline.net> <mailto:fcpt%40mtaonline.net> > 1/11/2008 1:01 PM >>> I have this situation: A rural health clinic has an M.D. medical director that is not there every day. Staff is primarily LPN's and PA-C's. Patient comes in to my clinic telling me that their " doctor " is one of the LPN's. 2 months ago the patient went to see the LPN and was referred to PT. For various reasons the patient held on to the script for 2 months and then called to schedule. I told her that too much time had gone by and that she should schedule another appointment with her " doctor " since so much time had gone by. She did; the LPN wasn't available this time around so she was seen by the by the M.D. who filled out a new script with the identical wo have a patient orientation class rding as the initial script by the LPN for PT. I send the Eval to the MD and am told that it this isn't their patient and to send it to the LPN. If I send the Plan of Care to the LPN as the referring provider and she signs it do I still need a new script from the LPN...This is a Medicare patient. Another question: Can a " non M.D. " provider refer a Medicare patient for outpatient PT? Just talked with my intermediary and was told that only an M.D. is authorized to refer a Medicare beneficiary for outpatient PT??? Jeff LePage, PT First Choice Physical Therapy Wasilla, Alaska Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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