Use of athletic trainers...

[Guest guest]

I am in Florida and I am constructively arguing with a colleague (fellow PT)

that athletic trainers cannot be used in the clinic for billable treatment. Can

anyone help me find some literature supporting this. I unfortunately have found

nothing to support my argument in our practice act of the Florida laws and

rules. Can trainers be used to treat non-medicare patients?

Bisesi MPT COMT

Winter Haven, FL

[Guest guest]

Depending on the state practice act Licensed Athletic Trainers can treat

patients in the clinic. The state of Illinois and Wisconsin allows this, but

remember not all insurance companies will reimburse.

Morrow, MS, ATC

Practice Manager

Rehab Services & Sports Medicine,

Occupational Health Services,

Employee Health Services, and

Cardiac Rehab Services

Monroe Clinic

515 22nd Avenue

Monroe, WI 53566

Office

Pager

Cell

>>> kbisesi@... 08/15/08 01:43PM >>>

I am in Florida and I am constructively arguing with a colleague (fellow PT)

that athletic trainers cannot be used in the clinic for billable treatment. Can

anyone help me find some literature supporting this. I unfortunately have found

nothing to support my argument in our practice act of the Florida laws and

rules. Can trainers be used to treat non-medicare patients?

Bisesi MPT COMT

Winter Haven, FL

[Guest guest]

: ATC's can treat non government funded patients under the direct

supervision of a PT. They are not listed explicitly as ATC's in the PT practice

act but as support or aides. Hope that makes sense.

Larry

Larry Benz PT

PT Development

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of

Morrow

Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 11:01 AM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Use of athletic trainers...

Depending on the state practice act Licensed Athletic Trainers can treat

patients in the clinic. The state of Illinois and Wisconsin allows this, but

remember not all insurance companies will reimburse.

Morrow, MS, ATC

Practice Manager

Rehab Services & Sports Medicine,

Occupational Health Services,

Employee Health Services, and

Cardiac Rehab Services

Monroe Clinic

515 22nd Avenue

Monroe, WI 53566

Office

Pager

Cell

>>> kbisesi@...<mailto:kbisesi%40yahoo.com> 08/15/08 01:43PM >>>

I am in Florida and I am constructively arguing with a colleague (fellow PT)

that athletic trainers cannot be used in the clinic for billable treatment. Can

anyone help me find some literature supporting this. I unfortunately have found

nothing to support my argument in our practice act of the Florida laws and

rules. Can trainers be used to treat non-medicare patients?

Bisesi MPT COMT

Winter Haven, FL

[Guest guest]

But can they be utilized any more than an aide? Also I did some research

and some of the larger private insurances in Florida such as BCBS, UHC, and

Aetna directly specify that only licensed physical therapists/assistants can

provide physical therapy services, just as Medicare/CMS specifies.

 

Bisesi MPT COMT

Winter Haven, Fl

Subject: RE: Use of athletic trainers...

To: " PTManager " <PTManager >

Date: Sunday, August 17, 2008, 8:47 PM

: ATC's can treat non government funded patients under the direct

supervision of a PT. They are not listed explicitly as ATC's in the PT practice

act but as support or aides. Hope that makes sense.

Larry

Larry Benz PT

PT Development

From: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf

Of Morrow

Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 11:01 AM

To: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com

Subject: Re: Use of athletic trainers...

Depending on the state practice act Licensed Athletic Trainers can treat

patients in the clinic. The state of Illinois and Wisconsin allows this, but

remember not all insurance companies will reimburse.

Morrow, MS, ATC

Practice Manager

Rehab Services & Sports Medicine,

Occupational Health Services,

Employee Health Services, and

Cardiac Rehab Services

Monroe Clinic

515 22nd Avenue

Monroe, WI 53566

Office

Pager

Cell

>>> kbisesiyahoo (DOT) com<mailto:kbisesi% 40yahoo.com> 08/15/08 01:43PM >>>

I am in Florida and I am constructively arguing with a colleague (fellow PT)

that athletic trainers cannot be used in the clinic for billable treatment. Can

anyone help me find some literature supporting this. I unfortunately have found

nothing to support my argument in our practice act of the Florida laws and

rules. Can trainers be used to treat non-medicare patients?

Bisesi MPT COMT

Winter Haven, FL

[Guest guest]

No, an aid is an aid.

__________________________________________

Larry

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of

keith bisesi

Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 10:24 AM

To: PTManager

Subject: RE: Use of athletic trainers...

But can they be utilized any more than an aide? Also I did some research and

some of the larger private insurances in Florida such as BCBS, UHC, and Aetna

directly specify that only licensed physical therapists/assistants can provide

physical therapy services, just as Medicare/CMS specifies.

Bisesi MPT COMT

Winter Haven, Fl

From: Larry Benz

<larry@...<mailto:larry%40physicaltherapist.com>>

Subject: RE: Use of athletic trainers...

To: " PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> "

<PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>>

Date: Sunday, August 17, 2008, 8:47 PM

: ATC's can treat non government funded patients under the direct

supervision of a PT. They are not listed explicitly as ATC's in the PT practice

act but as support or aides. Hope that makes sense.

Larry

Larry Benz PT

PT Development

From: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf

Of Morrow

Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 11:01 AM

To: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com

Subject: Re: Use of athletic trainers...

Depending on the state practice act Licensed Athletic Trainers can treat

patients in the clinic. The state of Illinois and Wisconsin allows this, but

remember not all insurance companies will reimburse.

Morrow, MS, ATC

Practice Manager

Rehab Services & Sports Medicine,

Occupational Health Services,

Employee Health Services, and

Cardiac Rehab Services

Monroe Clinic

515 22nd Avenue

Monroe, WI 53566

Office

Pager

Cell

>>> kbisesiyahoo (DOT) com<mailto:kbisesi% 40yahoo.com> 08/15/08 01:43PM >>>

I am in Florida and I am constructively arguing with a colleague (fellow PT)

that athletic trainers cannot be used in the clinic for billable treatment. Can

anyone help me find some literature supporting this. I unfortunately have found

nothing to support my argument in our practice act of the Florida laws and

rules. Can trainers be used to treat non-medicare patients?

Bisesi MPT COMT

Winter Haven, FL

[Guest guest]

and Larry-

My understanding is that only PT's and PTA's can provide physical

therapy services. Only AT's can provide athletic training services.

However, here in Wisconsin, both PT's and AT's can provide

rehabilitation services, and most of the insurance companies are

reimbursing athletic trainers for rehabilitation services that fall

within their practice and educational preparation. CMS does not

recognize rehabilitation services provided by AT's and therefore the

services rendered by an AT are not reimbursed by Medicare.

Mark Gibson, LAT, PT

Univ. of Wisconsin - La Crosse

>

>

> Subject: RE: Use of athletic trainers...

> To: " PTManager " <PTManager >

> Date: Sunday, August 17, 2008, 8:47 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

> : ATC's can treat non government funded patients under the

direct supervision of a PT. They are not listed explicitly as ATC's

in the PT practice act but as support or aides. Hope that makes sense.

>

> Larry

>

> Larry Benz PT

> PT Development

>

> From: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:PTManager@yahoogrou

ps.com] On Behalf Of Morrow

> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 11:01 AM

> To: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com

> Subject: Re: Use of athletic trainers...

>

> Depending on the state practice act Licensed Athletic Trainers can

treat patients in the clinic. The state of Illinois and Wisconsin

allows this, but remember not all insurance companies will reimburse.

>

> Morrow, MS, ATC

> Practice Manager

> Rehab Services & Sports Medicine,

> Occupational Health Services,

> Employee Health Services, and

> Cardiac Rehab Services

> Monroe Clinic

> 515 22nd Avenue

> Monroe, WI 53566

>

> Office

> Pager

> Cell

>

> >>> kbisesiyahoo (DOT) com<mailto:kbisesi% 40yahoo.com> 08/15/08

01:43PM >>>

> I am in Florida and I am constructively arguing with a colleague

(fellow PT) that athletic trainers cannot be used in the clinic for

billable treatment. Can anyone help me find some literature

supporting this. I unfortunately have found nothing to support my

argument in our practice act of the Florida laws and rules. Can

trainers be used to treat non-medicare patients?

>

> Bisesi MPT COMT

> Winter Haven, FL

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mark:

You are correct about medicare. ATC's within a particular PT practice act,

would be " aids " or " support personnel " not explicitly named within a PT practice

act and therefore fall under the direct supervision of a PT to whatever they are

allowed to do under that state's respective practice act. Perhaps there are a

few states where this is not the case. Other than government funded patients

and a few other payors, I have not personally seen many that have their own

explicit provider list that restrict PT's beyond their scope of practice. In

fact, I think it is a shame that CMS does this as it restricts the PT by

negating any judgment on their part. It is my belief that a payor should only

be concerned that the PT is practicing within their own scope of practice.

Internally, our profession has defined additional standards that as PT's we

should oblige.

Larry

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of

Mark

Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 1:00 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Use of athletic trainers...

and Larry-

My understanding is that only PT's and PTA's can provide physical

therapy services. Only AT's can provide athletic training services.

However, here in Wisconsin, both PT's and AT's can provide

rehabilitation services, and most of the insurance companies are

reimbursing athletic trainers for rehabilitation services that fall

within their practice and educational preparation. CMS does not

recognize rehabilitation services provided by AT's and therefore the

services rendered by an AT are not reimbursed by Medicare.

Mark Gibson, LAT, PT

Univ. of Wisconsin - La Crosse

>

>

> Subject: RE: Use of athletic trainers...

> To: " PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> "

<PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>>

> Date: Sunday, August 17, 2008, 8:47 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

> : ATC's can treat non government funded patients under the

direct supervision of a PT. They are not listed explicitly as ATC's

in the PT practice act but as support or aides. Hope that makes sense.

>

> Larry

>

> Larry Benz PT

> PT Development

>

> From: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:PTManager@yahoogrou

ps.com] On Behalf Of Morrow

> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 11:01 AM

> To: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com

> Subject: Re: Use of athletic trainers...

>

> Depending on the state practice act Licensed Athletic Trainers can

treat patients in the clinic. The state of Illinois and Wisconsin

allows this, but remember not all insurance companies will reimburse.

>

> Morrow, MS, ATC

> Practice Manager

> Rehab Services & Sports Medicine,

> Occupational Health Services,

> Employee Health Services, and

> Cardiac Rehab Services

> Monroe Clinic

> 515 22nd Avenue

> Monroe, WI 53566

>

> Office

> Pager

> Cell

>

> >>> kbisesiyahoo (DOT) com<mailto:kbisesi% 40yahoo.com> 08/15/08

01:43PM >>>

> I am in Florida and I am constructively arguing with a colleague

(fellow PT) that athletic trainers cannot be used in the clinic for

billable treatment. Can anyone help me find some literature

supporting this. I unfortunately have found nothing to support my

argument in our practice act of the Florida laws and rules. Can

trainers be used to treat non-medicare patients?

>

> Bisesi MPT COMT

> Winter Haven, FL

>

>