Re:He's Back In Jail

[Guest guest]

Dear Group

Well it is over for the moment. I consulted an attorney yesterday who deals

in family law. In RI Grandparents have NO rights for visitation or anything

else. After giving the lawyer my daughter's history from when she started all

this 13 yrs ago, and with what she is allowing her husband to do to the kids,

she said I should call DCYF and to keep on them for as long as it takes and she

will assist me in that capacity as she said sometimes lawyers get further

with them.

But while I as at the lawyer's office, my daughter was at court trying to get

the No Contact Order removed. We found out later in the day , it had been

DENIED. (the beginning of his end).

Also, while I sat with the lawyer, my younger grandson had been telling the

director of his daycare that " Mommy goes out at night, leaves them alone with

Will and doesn't come back until the sun is out " and that he had no dinner

" last night " and " only a yogurt for breakfast " . She called the police chief

with

whom she is friends (she's a member of our town council so that helped). The

police in turn called me and took another report from me. They had been in

touch with dirt bag's parole officer. My daughter told her that Will lived in

her house and SHE was living at my house at my address, therefore not

violating the No Contact Order. The police needed my statement to show she has

not

lived at my house in years and that I have seen them BOTH living at her house as

late as Wednesday night when dirt bag was giving her orders to have me bring

back home.

After they took the report, they needed the judge 's order to pick him up.

He was picked up at 7:00 last night. She wasn't there at the time, bit my

grandson were at the house with the dirt bag. The police called me and asked if

I

could pick up the boys, but when I got there my daughter was back, came down

the driveway SCREAMING at me at the top of her lungs that I would NEVER see

the kids again, ever. The cop grabbed her by the arm and told her to get back

in the house---NOW or else. She went. I asked him not to leave the boys

alone with her until he was sure she wasn't going to be self or otherwise

destructive, becuse I just took the dirt bag away from her and that Is how she

sees

it. And she has told me she cannot live without him.

I remembered all the past outbursts thru the years, they always resulted from

when I wouldn't give her something she wanted or do something she wanted.

Like when she was in college and her boyfriend who lived out of state wanted to

live at my house for the summer in her room with the one bed, but she swore up

and down they wouldn't be sleeping toether. I told her absolutely not and

that was one of her worst outbursts with her threatening to kill me, breaking a

glass picture frame over her head etc.

I just cannot do this anymore. I don't know what is going to become of my

grandsons. My daughter has now adopted HIS mother and his drug addict sister as

her best friends. They are now the wondeful ones. A month ago, they were the

worst trash on the face of the earth and now my grandsons are being exposed to

them ! They are white trash bigots and my grandsons are inter racial. I did

manage to see (the little one) yesterday when I went to the

daycare. My daughter will probably pull Nicolas out of that daycare now because

the

director will be considered an ENEMY.

Any suggestions as to what I shpuld do now. I have been considering a

restraining order against my daughter because I don't want my or my sons new

cars

vandalized. I am wondering too, if I can go to court Monday when he is

arraigned and contribute anything that will keep him in the can longer.

Any imput will be appreciated.

Thanks

Jean

[Guest guest]

What do you think she will do next? Do these people have a pattern or is it

always a big surprise? Do I need a restraining order. In the past, years

ago, once the dust settled she held a grudge for a while but never did any

physical while she was OUT of my house. I am concerned about the post partum

de[ression in conjunction with her normal insanity. The director of 's

daycare said when she picked him up yesterday, she said she was leaving there to

check herself into ( a private mental facility here) and that

would be going to school with a police escort on Monday. That made no sense

!!!!!

Do BPs bet really psychotic type crazy?

Jean

[Guest guest]

sounds like a step in the right direction. I myself would go to court,

just to insert your two cents for what its worth, like protecting your

grandsons. Make sure you have any documentation or recordings with you to back

up what you have to say. Hopefully their mother won't be there with the kids,

not good for them to be a part of this. I would do whatever I could to try and

protect them. At least the police have her number. Keep the youth division

involved also. That's an ace in the hole for you. It's ridiculous the RI has

no grandparent's rights. I would think the government would have something that

could override the state rules on that issue. Something to look into. With all

this history of neglect on her part, is there a chance you could petition the

court for custody or gaurdianship? Might be worth questioning. Hope this

helps.

Hugs,

Debbie

Re: Re:He's Back In Jail

Dear Group

Well it is over for the moment. I consulted an attorney yesterday who deals

in family law. In RI Grandparents have NO rights for visitation or anything

else. After giving the lawyer my daughter's history from when she started all

this 13 yrs ago, and with what she is allowing her husband to do to the kids,

she said I should call DCYF and to keep on them for as long as it takes and she

will assist me in that capacity as she said sometimes lawyers get further

with them.

But while I as at the lawyer's office, my daughter was at court trying to get

the No Contact Order removed. We found out later in the day , it had been

DENIED. (the beginning of his end).

Also, while I sat with the lawyer, my younger grandson had been telling the

director of his daycare that " Mommy goes out at night, leaves them alone with

Will and doesn't come back until the sun is out " and that he had no dinner

" last night " and " only a yogurt for breakfast " . She called the police chief

with

whom she is friends (she's a member of our town council so that helped). The

police in turn called me and took another report from me. They had been in

touch with dirt bag's parole officer. My daughter told her that Will lived in

her house and SHE was living at my house at my address, therefore not

violating the No Contact Order. The police needed my statement to show she has

not

lived at my house in years and that I have seen them BOTH living at her house as

late as Wednesday night when dirt bag was giving her orders to have me bring

back home.

After they took the report, they needed the judge 's order to pick him up.

He was picked up at 7:00 last night. She wasn't there at the time, bit my

grandson were at the house with the dirt bag. The police called me and asked if

I

could pick up the boys, but when I got there my daughter was back, came down

the driveway SCREAMING at me at the top of her lungs that I would NEVER see

the kids again, ever. The cop grabbed her by the arm and told her to get back

in the house---NOW or else. She went. I asked him not to leave the boys

alone with her until he was sure she wasn't going to be self or otherwise

destructive, becuse I just took the dirt bag away from her and that Is how she

sees

it. And she has told me she cannot live without him.

I remembered all the past outbursts thru the years, they always resulted from

when I wouldn't give her something she wanted or do something she wanted.

Like when she was in college and her boyfriend who lived out of state wanted to

live at my house for the summer in her room with the one bed, but she swore up

and down they wouldn't be sleeping toether. I told her absolutely not and

that was one of her worst outbursts with her threatening to kill me, breaking a

glass picture frame over her head etc.

I just cannot do this anymore. I don't know what is going to become of my

grandsons. My daughter has now adopted HIS mother and his drug addict sister as

her best friends. They are now the wondeful ones. A month ago, they were the

worst trash on the face of the earth and now my grandsons are being exposed to

them ! They are white trash bigots and my grandsons are inter racial. I did

manage to see (the little one) yesterday when I went to the

daycare. My daughter will probably pull Nicolas out of that daycare now because

the

director will be considered an ENEMY.

Any suggestions as to what I shpuld do now. I have been considering a

restraining order against my daughter because I don't want my or my sons new

cars

vandalized. I am wondering too, if I can go to court Monday when he is

arraigned and contribute anything that will keep him in the can longer.

Any imput will be appreciated.

Thanks

Jean

[Guest guest]

Wow Jean

See they had enough rope and they hung themselves. That is awesome, its even

bettr that the judge denied rescinding the no contact order! I think your

grandson will continue to tell people whne he is mistreated. Sounds lke he is

getting help any way he can!

Hugs

Kelley

Re: Re:He's Back In Jail

Dear Group

Well it is over for the moment. I consulted an attorney yesterday who deals

in family law. In RI Grandparents have NO rights for visitation or anything

else. After giving the lawyer my daughter's history from when she started all

this 13 yrs ago, and with what she is allowing her husband to do to the kids,

she said I should call DCYF and to keep on them for as long as it takes and

she

will assist me in that capacity as she said sometimes lawyers get further

with them.

But while I as at the lawyer's office, my daughter was at court trying to get

the No Contact Order removed. We found out later in the day , it had been

DENIED. (the beginning of his end).

Also, while I sat with the lawyer, my younger grandson had been telling the

director of his daycare that " Mommy goes out at night, leaves them alone with

Will and doesn't come back until the sun is out " and that he had no dinner

" last night " and " only a yogurt for breakfast " . She called the police chief

with

whom she is friends (she's a member of our town council so that helped). The

police in turn called me and took another report from me. They had been in

touch with dirt bag's parole officer. My daughter told her that Will lived in

her house and SHE was living at my house at my address, therefore not

violating the No Contact Order. The police needed my statement to show she

has not

lived at my house in years and that I have seen them BOTH living at her house

as

late as Wednesday night when dirt bag was giving her orders to have me bring

back home.

After they took the report, they needed the judge 's order to pick him up.

He was picked up at 7:00 last night. She wasn't there at the time, bit my

grandson were at the house with the dirt bag. The police called me and asked

if I

could pick up the boys, but when I got there my daughter was back, came down

the driveway SCREAMING at me at the top of her lungs that I would NEVER see

the kids again, ever. The cop grabbed her by the arm and told her to get back

in the house---NOW or else. She went. I asked him not to leave the boys

alone with her until he was sure she wasn't going to be self or otherwise

destructive, becuse I just took the dirt bag away from her and that Is how she

sees

it. And she has told me she cannot live without him.

I remembered all the past outbursts thru the years, they always resulted from

when I wouldn't give her something she wanted or do something she wanted.

Like when she was in college and her boyfriend who lived out of state wanted

to

live at my house for the summer in her room with the one bed, but she swore up

and down they wouldn't be sleeping toether. I told her absolutely not and

that was one of her worst outbursts with her threatening to kill me, breaking

a

glass picture frame over her head etc.

I just cannot do this anymore. I don't know what is going to become of my

grandsons. My daughter has now adopted HIS mother and his drug addict sister

as

her best friends. They are now the wondeful ones. A month ago, they were the

worst trash on the face of the earth and now my grandsons are being exposed to

them ! They are white trash bigots and my grandsons are inter racial. I did

manage to see (the little one) yesterday when I went to the

daycare. My daughter will probably pull Nicolas out of that daycare now

because the

director will be considered an ENEMY.

Any suggestions as to what I shpuld do now. I have been considering a

restraining order against my daughter because I don't want my or my sons new

cars

vandalized. I am wondering too, if I can go to court Monday when he is

arraigned and contribute anything that will keep him in the can longer.

Any imput will be appreciated.

Thanks

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jean

Yes they can be really spychotic type crazy but they beleive they are doing

things for a reason. Please keep relaying all this to the child protective

services. If she is going to check herself into a hospital where is she

leaving her children? And why on earth would the child need a police escort?

Geesh.

Hugs

Kelley

Re: Re:He's Back In Jail

What do you think she will do next? Do these people have a pattern or is it

always a big surprise? Do I need a restraining order. In the past, years

ago, once the dust settled she held a grudge for a while but never did any

physical while she was OUT of my house. I am concerned about the post partum

de[ression in conjunction with her normal insanity. The director of 's

daycare said when she picked him up yesterday, she said she was leaving there

to

check herself into ( a private mental facility here) and that

would be going to school with a police escort on Monday. That made no sense

!!!!!

Do BPs bet really psychotic type crazy?

Jean

[Guest guest]

I'm glad he's back in jail. Sounds like you're being very

proactive, rather than just reactive.

Hopefully, with more than one person in contact with police/DCYF

something can be done to help these poor grandchildren.

Glad you've got a lawyer. It must make you feel even a little bit

better to know that someone who knows how the legal system works is

helping out.

Your dtr sounds so out-of-control I am amazed she can even

function. But, if she's out all hours and the kids don't have food

and are left alone at night, I guess that speaks volumes for

how " well " she's functioning, doesn't it?

I don't know that I'd give her outburst a lot of credence, no matter

how spectacular. Bps change so quickly in who they consider

wonderful that, who knows, perhaps tomorrow the boyfriend's mother

will mortally offend her, and you'll be back in her good graces

again.

My suggestion, as you feel you " cannot do this anymore " is to go

ahead and cut her loose. Be involved with the judge, the police,

the teacher, DCYF--whatever, for your grandchildren's sake and don't

have anything to do with her.

If you find yourself in a position where you HAVE to go to her house

about the grandkids, make sure you take someone with you as a

witness to what is said and what happens. That single action may

pay off huge dividends in the future.

Can you even get a restraining order on your dtr? Here in SC, there

has to be three threats within the past six weeks before the

magistrate's office will issue a restraining order. And even then,

although a temporary one might be issued, you still have to go to

court and face them with the charges. I would think that could be

very traumatic. You might want to check with your attorney about

the requirements in your state.

As far as showing up in court when the boyfriend goes, again, I

would think your attorney would be the best one to ask about that.

Good luck to you,

[Guest guest]

Finally got back to work today, then had lunch with my cousin who said she

thinks she has my daughter figured out. Here goes: At 18 her father (my ex)

came back into her life after not interacting with my children for about 8 yrs.

At this time, she maintained a good relationship with him. He bought her a

car, paid for her apt her 2nd yr in college, she became a " part " of his new

family, she would visit him in Md 4 or 5 times a yr. He spoiled her materially.

At this same exact time, I was having huge financial problems. I had owned a

jewelry business that had just gone bad. It was at this time that my

daughter started acting up, telling me what a loser I was every time I didn't

let

her have her own way.

It was like she HATED the sight of me. She basically no longer needed me.

What good was I ? I couldn't provide her with anything and Daddy could, so I

was expendable.

And this goes on in a continuos pattern. She is my best buddy whenever she

needs me for money, or whatever ( even not wanting to spend Christmas alone).

One yr she hadn't spoken to me in months when she had a relationship with her

father (befor the kids). He was taking his other family skiing for the

holidays and didn't invite her, so back into my life she comes in time for

Christmas

presents. I had completley fforgotten about that incident until my cousin

reminded me.

Then the 1st relationship with the boys' father. Only wanted something to do

with me when she got evicted from her apt and needed me to find her another

one, and other assorted things she needed when she was pregnant with my 1st

grandson. As soon as the baby was born, I was out of the picture again, she

never called me, if I called her she made it short and hung up until she started

having problems in that relationship and then I was her buddy again. And it

went on and on this way until the present.

My cousin says (and this is an accurate assessment) when she doesn't need me

she doesn't just severe the realtionship a little, she wants to get rid of me

COMPLETELY like I am something very distatseful. This explains, why she

doesn't want me having a relationship with my grandsons, it's like I make her

sick

to see or have around AT ALL. She wants to pretend I don't exist as long as

she doesn't NEED me.

What do you call that kind of behavior?

Jean

[Guest guest]

Who can guess what she'll do next? So much depends on what is

happening deep inside of herself, and how desperate she feels about

her situation.

See previous post re: my thoughts about a restraining order.

I'd be concerned about the post partum depression, too, but really,

what can you actually do about it? Unfortunately, unless she is

willing to admit she's suicidal or about to harm someone else, she

cannot be institutionalized.

Now, her saying she's going to check herself into a psych hospital

makes very much sense to me. In thinking back on those awful years

of my life, when things were especially out-of-control, I would

search for stability wherever (and in whatever guise) I could find

it.

I think that is what is doing with her statement about .

Remember, though, that she will probably NOT call on you for help in

that regard, because so much of a bp is about separating from their

families, establishing their own identity while congruently trying

to establish an adult relationship with the same.

Talk about chaos! That can really cause a bunch as the bp struggles

with her feelings and thoughts.

The whole thing with the police escort for your grandson I view as a

bunch of posturing . . . I'm going crazy, I must protect my son from

those who made me crazy, hence the police escort.

It's also another way of her telling people that she feels very out-

of-control without having to actually say the words. It may be the

closest thing to her saying that that you'll ever hear.

Good luck,

katie

[Guest guest]

Edith

What need do her children fulfill? Will she discard them too?

Jean

[Guest guest]

You have to look at how realistic her claims are. I think she may be

grandstanding. Making outlandish statements for the effect they have on other

people, especially you.

If she is an N, she will be far more predictable than a BP would. Ns are

obsessive about their supply. Will is part of her supply. She would feel

" crazy " because she has lost the object of her obsession and has no one waiting

in the wings to replace him, something Ns like to do. Being without a sexual

object to use, to idolize, and later to devalue (a behavior similar to

splitting) drives Ns nuts.

If she tries to check herself into a mental hospital, they may not keep her for

very long unless she becomes psychotic. (Ns can do that just as much as BPs

can.) There's also the question of what she'd do with the kids while she's in

the hospital. If she hands them over to Will's relatives, you have a custody

case in the making. Not that you don't already, but it would be easier to

question her fitness as a parent if she hands them over to people like that.

Even leaving them with Will--if he's currently using--is suspect.

The fable of a police escort would be almost laughable if it weren't so sad. The

RO she applied for has been denied. She doesn't have anything on you. I doubt

the police would cooperate.

Don't worry about what she'll do next. You can't do anything about it until it

happens, so there's no sense in anticipating her every move. Just take good

care of yourself, try not to get caught up in the drama and chaos she's

creating, and keep documenting everything that happens.

Meredith

[Guest guest]

Kelley

If I am to understand Edith. People, even people my daughter has had a

history with are useless to her if she no longer needs them for anything. So,

basically they are nothing more than 2 bit users. And if she cannot USE the

boys

to gain anything from anyone, what happens to them? She is worse than her

husband. She's their biological mother, she should have some love for them,

some

emotional need.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Edith

Guess that's food for thought!

Thanks

Jean

[Guest guest]

Edith

My older grandson, is probably the all bad one in my daughter's eyes.

He never listens to her and , the younger has actually been his Mama's

boy since he was born. But now that the baby is here; my daughter has

allowed the husband to punish and isolate both boys and the baby is the golden

girl.

I really believe my daughter has deep down resented the boys all along.

They are inter racial. The baby is blonde, blue eyed. I'm really afraid they

are being punished JUST because they exist. I have never seen my little grandson

look as sad as he did yesterday when I saw him at daycare. He asked if I was

coming to take him home with me and I told him his Mommy wouldn't allow me

to, but as soon as she said it was okay, I would let him stay with me. He was

very sad. I told him I was very sorry that Will had been punishing him and he

sadly said (almost despondently), " It's OK " . He broke my heart.

Jean

Jean

[Guest guest]

Kelley

Not at all. But my son told me she is not at home; her car is not in her

driveway. I know last night from what the police told me she was staying at her

mother-in-law's house. The woman who taught her children to steal movies and

CDs because she couldn't give them money for them. always refered to

her as " white trash " . Now they're best friends.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Kelley

I think (and I hope I'm right) that she will definitely blame me alone. She

told me a few days ago that she doesn't want me around the boys because I

would screw them up, the way I screwed her up, that she knows there's something

wrong with her and it must be my fault. So, I don't have a chance.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Edith

That must have been horrible to have had to be with her ALL the time. But,

you are normal and that gives me hope for my grandsons. Maybe it is more

genetic than environmental. Is your sister okay or does she have problems?

Jean

[Guest guest]

Kelley

I don't see her talking to me any time soon. I did tell that day that if she

felt she was " screwed " up, why didn't she go to see someone; she changed the

subject.

Jean

[Guest guest]

So, does that mean the husband will also be discarded at some point? (That

is if and when he gets out of jail this time).

Jean

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Edith. I will definitely get that book. What is it that they say,

" Knowledge is power " .

Jean

[Guest guest]

Kelley

I think she is staying at his mother's because she hates being alone. And,

she doesn't see

the kids as company.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Kelley

I have found with , as long as she is getting attention from someone,

she'll like them. As long as they don't find fault with her or anything she

does, she's o k with them. And, they have so much in common now. I just had

her husband, his mother's son and sister's brother put back in jail. They must

be having the time of their lives comiserating about what a B____ I am.

I think they'll all get a lot of miles out of this!

Jean

[Guest guest]

I don't see any love from her toward her boys right now. When she dumped

them last summer to go to Las Vegas, she didn't give a _amn about them. When

hubby goes to the can, then she gave them tons of attention for these previous 9

months just like she was with me, As soon as dirt bag came back, the kids

were once again a big inconvenience, She uses the boys exactly the same as she

uses me. That's NOT LOVE!!!!!!!

Jean

[Guest guest]

cascorsam@... wrote:

> My cousin says (and this is an accurate assessment) when she doesn't need me

> she doesn't just severe the realtionship a little, she wants to get rid of me

> COMPLETELY like I am something very distatseful. This explains, why she

> doesn't want me having a relationship with my grandsons, it's like I make her

sick

> to see or have around AT ALL. She wants to pretend I don't exist as long as

> she doesn't NEED me.

>

> What do you call that kind of behavior?

>

> Jean

Hi

Its called 'splitting'. Its one of the main defense mechanisms that BPs

use. Other defense mechanisms BPs use include denial, rationalization,

and projection. See chapter 3 of SWOE.

Following is a definition of *splitting* from the book _I Hate You,

Don't Leave Me_ by Jerry Kreisman, M.D. From page 10:

" The world of a BP, like that of a child, is split into heroes and

villains. A child emotionally, the BP cannot tolerate human

inconsistencies and ambiguities; he cannot reconcile another's good and

bad qualities into a constant coherent understanding of another person.

At any particular moment, one is either Good or EVIL. There is no

in-between; no gray area....people are idolized one day; totally

devalued and dismissed the next.

" Normal people are ambivalent and can experience two contradictory

states at one time; BPs shift back and forth, entirely unaware of one

feeling state while in the other.

" When the idealized person finally disappoints (as we all do, sooner

or later) the borderline must drastically restructure his

one-dimensional conceptionalization. Either the idol is banished to the

dungeon, or the borderline banishes himself in order to preserve the

all-good image of the other person.

" Splitting is intended to shield the BP from a barrage of

contradictory feelings and images and from the anxiety of trying to

reconcile those images. But splitting often achieves the opposite

effect. The frays in the BP's personality become rips, and the sense of

his own identity and the identity of others shifts even more

dramatically and frequently. "

- Edith

Gal Friday / WelcomeToOz Family of NonBP Email Support Groups

[Guest guest]

Jean

I am sure Edith will answer that one as well, but I am going to take a stab at

it being that I live with BPH, have to tolerate his Mother who is also most

likely BPD and and have to deal withBPH's son's mother, who is UBPD, she

pareticulary uses her children for her needs. The child is pawn for her. So no

as long as she can hang onto the children they are worth something to her.

Hugs

Kelley

Re: Re:He's Back In Jail

Edith

What need do her children fulfill? Will she discard them too?

Jean

[Guest guest]

Hi

She needs them to be able to keep the pot stirred. As long as you're

interested in them, she'll hold them hostage.

- Edith

My mother was a BP

cascorsam@... wrote:

> Edith

>

> What need do her children fulfill? Will she discard them too?

>

> Jean