Re: Yogurt Starter Temps [revived re: use of Yogourmet]

[Guest guest]

Dear Marilyn,

Betty's post triggered me to find the discussion she referred to. I

was curious because (a) I use a Yogourmet, ( the internal lid pops

itself off regularly and I've wondered how that might be affecting the

yogurt, and © I have been unable to determine the cause of my

child's inconsistent responses to the diet and this post made me think

perhaps it's in the yogurt maker.

Your post here was pretty amazing, and I'm just wondering if there've

been any updates to this issue? (If anyone else is interested in

reviewing the thread, it ran before and after October 10, 2007.)

Any thoughts of what I should be doing to ensure my child is getting

lactose-free yogurt out of the machine?

Baden

> beth,

>

> I know you're not intending to be inflammatory. I

> confess that times like this make me wish I had a

> hot line to heaven so I could ASK Elaine exactly what she meant.

>

> First -- we know that Lactobacillus bulgaricus

> and Streptococcus thermophilus like a higher side

> temperature, and they are the two strains which define " yogurt " .

>

> Second, we know that both Lactobacillus

> acidophilus and Lactobacillus casei like lower temperatures.

>

> Clearly, even if the yogurt is fermented at a

> higher temperature, we're getting YOGURT.

>

> But, as you determined, because of your husband's

> flare, it may not be quite lactose free, which is

> what Elaine's method is intended to produce.

>

> I have letters in to several people who are

> knowledgeable about these things, and am hoping

> to pull up the optimum temperatures for each bacteria.

>

> In addition, I have written to the Yogourmet

> folks, and they are continuing to research the

> issue. I approached it from the point that I have

> two of their machines, and I've been quite happy

> with both, but expressing my concern about the

> issues so many SCDers have had, and that there

> are quite a few of us out here. So far, we've

> exchanged a couple of emails, and I have to say

> they're honestly perplexed. The fact that we're

> not duplicating their results in the field, and

> they're not duplicating our results in the lab

> makes it hard to find a solution reasonable for all of us.

>

> Yogourmet may ignore me, but I've offered the

> suggestion to them of building a thermostatically

> controlled yogurt maker, since there are so many

> thousands of us SCDers out here.

>

> What makes this even more difficult is that two

> people I know who were very, very ill, and who

> recovered completely, used the Yogourmet yogurt

> makers, and did not baby sit them the way so many

> people describe having to do. I believe Elaine herself used the

Yogourmet.

>

> I'm cudgeling around in my brain, and I dimly

> recall, back around 2002, or 2003, someone who

> had a problem with the yogurt taking, and after

> chilling her yogurt, stirring an appropriate

> amount of Lacteeze drops into it and stirring,

> and then chilling for 24 hours to be sure that

> any lactose not completely eaten by the bacteria

> was eliminated by the Lacteeze. This might be a

> possibility for people who have otherwise perfect SCD yogurt.

>

> As is often the case, each question we ask raises

> a dozen more. I'm attempting to gather data, so

> that our discussions can be based on BTVC and the

> science Elaine studied for so many decades.

>

> YOGURT is an incontrovertible part of SCD, in my view.

>

> But I think Elaine would be appalled at the idea

> of us shutting off our brains and not researching

> a question. Even if she would also probably be

> tempted to smack us all upside the head for worrying about minutia.

>

> What I suggest is that we get on with making our

> yogurt the best way we can. I like my Yogourmet;

> you have not found it as useful without the

> widget your father and husband rigged. For a

> thermostatically controlled yogurt maker, I use

> my Excalibur dehydrator, set the temperature and

> let 'er rip. (I did test the temps in the box as

> being what the control said they were before making the yogurt.)

>

> I intend to continue researching, as well, and I

> can assure you that as soon as I have any data

> that might help us, you'll have it.

>

>

>

> — Marilyn

> New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

> Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

> Darn Good SCD Cook

> No Human Children

> Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

Wow you got me thinking !!- when I'm off and don't know why - maybe

it is that ???- my lid pops off too lately??? I'm going to try and be

more aware of my temps -

thanks eileen 4 months scd

>

> Dear Marilyn,

>

> Betty's post triggered me to find the discussion she referred to. I

> was curious because (a) I use a Yogourmet, ( the internal lid pops

> itself off regularly and I've wondered how that might be affecting

the

> yogurt, and © I have been unable to determine the cause of my

> child's inconsistent responses to the diet and this post made me

think

> perhaps it's in the yogurt maker.

>

> Your post here was pretty amazing, and I'm just wondering if

there've

> been any updates to this issue? (If anyone else is interested in

> reviewing the thread, it ran before and after October 10, 2007.)

>

> Any thoughts of what I should be doing to ensure my child is getting

> lactose-free yogurt out of the machine?

>

> Baden

>

>

>

>

>

> > beth,

> >

> > I know you're not intending to be inflammatory. I

> > confess that times like this make me wish I had a

> > hot line to heaven so I could ASK Elaine exactly what she meant.

> >

> > First -- we know that Lactobacillus bulgaricus

> > and Streptococcus thermophilus like a higher side

> > temperature, and they are the two strains which define " yogurt " .

> >

> > Second, we know that both Lactobacillus

> > acidophilus and Lactobacillus casei like lower temperatures.

> >

> > Clearly, even if the yogurt is fermented at a

> > higher temperature, we're getting YOGURT.

> >

> > But, as you determined, because of your husband's

> > flare, it may not be quite lactose free, which is

> > what Elaine's method is intended to produce.

> >

> > I have letters in to several people who are

> > knowledgeable about these things, and am hoping

> > to pull up the optimum temperatures for each bacteria.

> >

> > In addition, I have written to the Yogourmet

> > folks, and they are continuing to research the

> > issue. I approached it from the point that I have

> > two of their machines, and I've been quite happy

> > with both, but expressing my concern about the

> > issues so many SCDers have had, and that there

> > are quite a few of us out here. So far, we've

> > exchanged a couple of emails, and I have to say

> > they're honestly perplexed. The fact that we're

> > not duplicating their results in the field, and

> > they're not duplicating our results in the lab

> > makes it hard to find a solution reasonable for all of us.

> >

> > Yogourmet may ignore me, but I've offered the

> > suggestion to them of building a thermostatically

> > controlled yogurt maker, since there are so many

> > thousands of us SCDers out here.

> >

> > What makes this even more difficult is that two

> > people I know who were very, very ill, and who

> > recovered completely, used the Yogourmet yogurt

> > makers, and did not baby sit them the way so many

> > people describe having to do. I believe Elaine herself used the

> Yogourmet.

> >

> > I'm cudgeling around in my brain, and I dimly

> > recall, back around 2002, or 2003, someone who

> > had a problem with the yogurt taking, and after

> > chilling her yogurt, stirring an appropriate

> > amount of Lacteeze drops into it and stirring,

> > and then chilling for 24 hours to be sure that

> > any lactose not completely eaten by the bacteria

> > was eliminated by the Lacteeze. This might be a

> > possibility for people who have otherwise perfect SCD yogurt.

> >

> > As is often the case, each question we ask raises

> > a dozen more. I'm attempting to gather data, so

> > that our discussions can be based on BTVC and the

> > science Elaine studied for so many decades.

> >

> > YOGURT is an incontrovertible part of SCD, in my view.

> >

> > But I think Elaine would be appalled at the idea

> > of us shutting off our brains and not researching

> > a question. Even if she would also probably be

> > tempted to smack us all upside the head for worrying about

minutia.

> >

> > What I suggest is that we get on with making our

> > yogurt the best way we can. I like my Yogourmet;

> > you have not found it as useful without the

> > widget your father and husband rigged. For a

> > thermostatically controlled yogurt maker, I use

> > my Excalibur dehydrator, set the temperature and

> > let 'er rip. (I did test the temps in the box as

> > being what the control said they were before making the yogurt.)

> >

> > I intend to continue researching, as well, and I

> > can assure you that as soon as I have any data

> > that might help us, you'll have it.

> >

> >

> >

> > — Marilyn

> > New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

> > Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

> > Darn Good SCD Cook

> > No Human Children

> > Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Baden,

I just mentioned this in my previous post to Betty, but if you're

concerned about how your yogurt maker is doing the only way to know

for sure is to set up a reliable digital thermometer that can take

the temp of the yogurt throughout the entire fermentation process.

If it's above 110 degrees, you may be having problems with bacteria

getting killed before they can eat all the lactose.

beth

(husband UC 5.5 yrs, scd 11 mo)

>

> Any thoughts of what I should be doing to ensure my child is

getting

> lactose-free yogurt out of the machine?

>

> Baden

>

>

>

>

>

> > beth,

> >

> > I know you're not intending to be inflammatory. I

> > confess that times like this make me wish I had a

> > hot line to heaven so I could ASK Elaine exactly what she meant.

> >

> > First -- we know that Lactobacillus bulgaricus

> > and Streptococcus thermophilus like a higher side

> > temperature, and they are the two strains which define " yogurt " .

> >

> > Second, we know that both Lactobacillus

> > acidophilus and Lactobacillus casei like lower temperatures.

> >

> > Clearly, even if the yogurt is fermented at a

> > higher temperature, we're getting YOGURT.

> >

> > But, as you determined, because of your husband's

> > flare, it may not be quite lactose free, which is

> > what Elaine's method is intended to produce.

> >

> > I have letters in to several people who are

> > knowledgeable about these things, and am hoping

> > to pull up the optimum temperatures for each bacteria.

> >

> > In addition, I have written to the Yogourmet

> > folks, and they are continuing to research the

> > issue. I approached it from the point that I have

> > two of their machines, and I've been quite happy

> > with both, but expressing my concern about the

> > issues so many SCDers have had, and that there

> > are quite a few of us out here. So far, we've

> > exchanged a couple of emails, and I have to say

> > they're honestly perplexed. The fact that we're

> > not duplicating their results in the field, and

> > they're not duplicating our results in the lab

> > makes it hard to find a solution reasonable for all of us.

> >

> > Yogourmet may ignore me, but I've offered the

> > suggestion to them of building a thermostatically

> > controlled yogurt maker, since there are so many

> > thousands of us SCDers out here.

> >

> > What makes this even more difficult is that two

> > people I know who were very, very ill, and who

> > recovered completely, used the Yogourmet yogurt

> > makers, and did not baby sit them the way so many

> > people describe having to do. I believe Elaine herself used the

> Yogourmet.

> >

> > I'm cudgeling around in my brain, and I dimly

> > recall, back around 2002, or 2003, someone who

> > had a problem with the yogurt taking, and after

> > chilling her yogurt, stirring an appropriate

> > amount of Lacteeze drops into it and stirring,

> > and then chilling for 24 hours to be sure that

> > any lactose not completely eaten by the bacteria

> > was eliminated by the Lacteeze. This might be a

> > possibility for people who have otherwise perfect SCD yogurt.

> >

> > As is often the case, each question we ask raises

> > a dozen more. I'm attempting to gather data, so

> > that our discussions can be based on BTVC and the

> > science Elaine studied for so many decades.

> >

> > YOGURT is an incontrovertible part of SCD, in my view.

> >

> > But I think Elaine would be appalled at the idea

> > of us shutting off our brains and not researching

> > a question. Even if she would also probably be

> > tempted to smack us all upside the head for worrying about

minutia.

> >

> > What I suggest is that we get on with making our

> > yogurt the best way we can. I like my Yogourmet;

> > you have not found it as useful without the

> > widget your father and husband rigged. For a

> > thermostatically controlled yogurt maker, I use

> > my Excalibur dehydrator, set the temperature and

> > let 'er rip. (I did test the temps in the box as

> > being what the control said they were before making the yogurt.)

> >

> > I intend to continue researching, as well, and I

> > can assure you that as soon as I have any data

> > that might help us, you'll have it.

> >

> >

> >

> > — Marilyn

> > New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

> > Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

> > Darn Good SCD Cook

> > No Human Children

> > Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

>

[Guest guest]

Baden,

I can tell you that I have used the Yogourmet with no trouble. However,

Both my Yogourmets are around 7 years old, and although the Lyo-San

people say they haven't changed their manufacturing process, it's

possible that something has changed.

I did correspond with them, and they insisted that they were

investigating the problem. I'd suggest you correspond with them, because

the lid, if securely placed on the inner container, should not pop

off.

For a thermostatically controlled device, I can recommend the Excalibur

dehydrator, which is expensive, but lets you make as much as 8 quarts

(liters) of yogurt at one fell swoop. Not to mention making all sorts of

wonderful dried goodies.

Uhm, which post was pretty amazing? <g> I always worry when someone

says that, because so much of what I say is very off the cuff, based on

these years of being SCD. Makes me wonder what I said, and how people

interpret it!

—

Marilyn

New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

Hi. I also use the Yogourmet yogurt maker, which I purchased in March this

year. The lid has never popped off mine.

However, and this might be the difference, I am not the person who fastens

the lid before fermenting the yogurt. My hands are weak, and I have a lot of

difficulty getting the lid to fasten securely onto the container after I

have mixed the milk and yogurt starter. So I get my very strong husband to

put the lid on and make sure that it is securely snapped into place.

I only have this problem with the lid when the contents are liquid. Once the

yogurt has fermented and chilled, it makes the container more rigid, and the

lid snaps on and off easily.

I am going to order some glass jars from Lucy's Kitchen and hope that those

lids are easier to use.

I do leave the yogurt fermenting for about 26 hours after it reaches 100 F

in the machine, so I assume that all the lactose is converted by the

bacteria. But I would be interested in any simple tests for the absence of

lactose.

I think a thermostatically-controlled version of the Yogourmet would be a

major improvement. The sliding dimmer switch I use to limit the maximum

temperature of my Yogourmet is fairly reliable. The one time that proved not

to be sufficient was the day that I started slow-cooking lamb in my Crockpot

on the same counter as the Yogourmet machine was sitting on. I had forgotten

that the ambient temperature, which the slow-cooker raised, could also

affect the Yogourmet machine. When I realized that the Yogourmet water bath

had reached 120 F, I moved it away from the Crockpot.

I usually check the water bath temperature every few hours once it is in the

fermenting range (I try for 105 F), and I adjust the sliding switch if

required. I still maintain that if the water bath temperature stays

constant, then the yogurt temperature matches the water bath, and there is

no need to measure the temperature inside the inner container. I write this

as a once-upon-a-time engineer (before chronic illness turned my brains to

mush) who is happily married to a still-brilliant engineer (and former

classmate).

Hope this helps.

Ellen 2 months on SCD

" blackguitarmaker " wrote:

Wow you got me thinking !!- when I'm off and don't know why - maybe

it is that ???- my lid pops off too lately??? I'm going to try and be

more aware of my temps -

thanks eileen 4 months scd

>

> Dear Marilyn,

>

> Betty's post triggered me to find the discussion she referred to. I

> was curious because (a) I use a Yogourmet, ( the internal lid pops

> itself off regularly and I've wondered how that might be affecting

the

> yogurt, and © I have been unable to determine the cause of my

> child's inconsistent responses to the diet and this post made me

think

> perhaps it's in the yogurt maker.

>

> Your post here was pretty amazing, and I'm just wondering if

there've

> been any updates to this issue? (If anyone else is interested in

> reviewing the thread, it ran before and after October 10, 2007.)

>

> Any thoughts of what I should be doing to ensure my child is getting

> lactose-free yogurt out of the machine?

>

> Baden

[Guest guest]

As a new person trying to start this diet I find this continual debate

about the yogurt frustrating and discouraging. I bought a Yogourmet a

few weeks ago on the suggestion of several people and have been using

it. I did flare last week, but I have no idea is it's related to the

yogurt or not.

Anyway, I was reading here a few weeks ago that the bacteria should be

fine up to 130 degrees. Is this a fact or not? I have lactaid pills

and I suppose I can start taking a couple before I have my yogurt, but

now this has me wondering if I'm eating the supposed 700 billion

bacteria that are supped to be in the yogurt.

Desperately hoping for clarity,

Mike

>

> >

> > Any thoughts of what I should be doing to ensure my child is

> getting

> > lactose-free yogurt out of the machine?

> >

> > Baden

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > > beth,

> > >

> > > I know you're not intending to be inflammatory. I

> > > confess that times like this make me wish I had a

> > > hot line to heaven so I could ASK Elaine exactly what she meant.

> > >

> > > First -- we know that Lactobacillus bulgaricus

> > > and Streptococcus thermophilus like a higher side

> > > temperature, and they are the two strains which define " yogurt " .

> > >

> > > Second, we know that both Lactobacillus

> > > acidophilus and Lactobacillus casei like lower temperatures.

> > >

> > > Clearly, even if the yogurt is fermented at a

> > > higher temperature, we're getting YOGURT.

> > >

> > > But, as you determined, because of your husband's

> > > flare, it may not be quite lactose free, which is

> > > what Elaine's method is intended to produce.

> > >

> > > I have letters in to several people who are

> > > knowledgeable about these things, and am hoping

> > > to pull up the optimum temperatures for each bacteria.

> > >

> > > In addition, I have written to the Yogourmet

> > > folks, and they are continuing to research the

> > > issue. I approached it from the point that I have

> > > two of their machines, and I've been quite happy

> > > with both, but expressing my concern about the

> > > issues so many SCDers have had, and that there

> > > are quite a few of us out here. So far, we've

> > > exchanged a couple of emails, and I have to say

> > > they're honestly perplexed. The fact that we're

> > > not duplicating their results in the field, and

> > > they're not duplicating our results in the lab

> > > makes it hard to find a solution reasonable for all of us.

> > >

> > > Yogourmet may ignore me, but I've offered the

> > > suggestion to them of building a thermostatically

> > > controlled yogurt maker, since there are so many

> > > thousands of us SCDers out here.

> > >

> > > What makes this even more difficult is that two

> > > people I know who were very, very ill, and who

> > > recovered completely, used the Yogourmet yogurt

> > > makers, and did not baby sit them the way so many

> > > people describe having to do. I believe Elaine herself used the

> > Yogourmet.

> > >

> > > I'm cudgeling around in my brain, and I dimly

> > > recall, back around 2002, or 2003, someone who

> > > had a problem with the yogurt taking, and after

> > > chilling her yogurt, stirring an appropriate

> > > amount of Lacteeze drops into it and stirring,

> > > and then chilling for 24 hours to be sure that

> > > any lactose not completely eaten by the bacteria

> > > was eliminated by the Lacteeze. This might be a

> > > possibility for people who have otherwise perfect SCD yogurt.

> > >

> > > As is often the case, each question we ask raises

> > > a dozen more. I'm attempting to gather data, so

> > > that our discussions can be based on BTVC and the

> > > science Elaine studied for so many decades.

> > >

> > > YOGURT is an incontrovertible part of SCD, in my view.

> > >

> > > But I think Elaine would be appalled at the idea

> > > of us shutting off our brains and not researching

> > > a question. Even if she would also probably be

> > > tempted to smack us all upside the head for worrying about

> minutia.

> > >

> > > What I suggest is that we get on with making our

> > > yogurt the best way we can. I like my Yogourmet;

> > > you have not found it as useful without the

> > > widget your father and husband rigged. For a

> > > thermostatically controlled yogurt maker, I use

> > > my Excalibur dehydrator, set the temperature and

> > > let 'er rip. (I did test the temps in the box as

> > > being what the control said they were before making the yogurt.)

> > >

> > > I intend to continue researching, as well, and I

> > > can assure you that as soon as I have any data

> > > that might help us, you'll have it.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > — Marilyn

> > > New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

> > > Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

> > > Darn Good SCD Cook

> > > No Human Children

> > > Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I replied like you did to this debate and called Lucy from Lucy's kitchen she has been doing this for over 15 yrs ...she explains things that make you understand things better. I too use the yogourmet and it runs a little hot so I watch it and sometimes take the top off and my yogurt comes out fine ...certainly much healthier than anything else out there...considering years ago people are and were getting resulting using a light bulb...so all of this talk is just that talk...take what you like and discard the rest! It works better not to stress over the little stuff!

Suzanne Re: Yogurt Starter Temps [revived re: use of Yogourmet]To: BTVC-SCD > As a new person trying to start this diet I find this continual debate> about the yogurt frustrating and discouraging. I bought a > Yogourmet a> few weeks ago on the suggestion of several people and have been using> it. I did flare last week, but I have no idea is it's related > to the> yogurt or not.> > Anyway, I was reading here a few weeks ago that the bacteria > should be> fine up to 130 degrees. Is this a fact or not? I have lactaid pills> and I suppose I can start taking a couple before I have my > yogurt, but> now this has me wondering if I'm eating the supposed 700 billion> bacteria that are supped to be in the yogurt.> > Desperately hoping for clarity,> Mike> > > > > > > > > > Any thoughts of what I should be doing to ensure my child is > > getting> > > lactose-free yogurt out of the machine?> > > > > > Baden> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > beth,> > > > > > > > I know you're not intending to be inflammatory. I > > > > confess that times like this make me wish I had a > > > > hot line to heaven so I could ASK Elaine exactly what she meant.> > > > > > > > First -- we know that Lactobacillus bulgaricus > > > > and Streptococcus thermophilus like a higher side > > > > temperature, and they are the two strains which define "yogurt".> > > > > > > > Second, we know that both Lactobacillus > > > > acidophilus and Lactobacillus casei like lower temperatures.> > > > > > > > Clearly, even if the yogurt is fermented at a > > > > higher temperature, we're getting YOGURT.> > > > > > > > But, as you determined, because of your husband's > > > > flare, it may not be quite lactose free, which is > > > > what Elaine's method is intended to produce.> > > > > > > > I have letters in to several people who are > > > > knowledgeable about these things, and am hoping > > > > to pull up the optimum temperatures for each bacteria.> > > > > > > > In addition, I have written to the Yogourmet > > > > folks, and they are continuing to research the > > > > issue. I approached it from the point that I have > > > > two of their machines, and I've been quite happy > > > > with both, but expressing my concern about the > > > > issues so many SCDers have had, and that there > > > > are quite a few of us out here. So far, we've > > > > exchanged a couple of emails, and I have to say > > > > they're honestly perplexed. The fact that we're > > > > not duplicating their results in the field, and > > > > they're not duplicating our results in the lab > > > > makes it hard to find a solution reasonable for all of us.> > > > > > > > Yogourmet may ignore me, but I've offered the > > > > suggestion to them of building a thermostatically > > > > controlled yogurt maker, since there are so many > > > > thousands of us SCDers out here.> > > > > > > > What makes this even more difficult is that two > > > > people I know who were very, very ill, and who > > > > recovered completely, used the Yogourmet yogurt > > > > makers, and did not baby sit them the way so many > > > > people describe having to do. I believe Elaine herself > used the> > > Yogourmet.> > > > > > > > I'm cudgeling around in my brain, and I dimly > > > > recall, back around 2002, or 2003, someone who > > > > had a problem with the yogurt taking, and after > > > > chilling her yogurt, stirring an appropriate > > > > amount of Lacteeze drops into it and stirring, > > > > and then chilling for 24 hours to be sure that > > > > any lactose not completely eaten by the bacteria > > > > was eliminated by the Lacteeze. This might be a > > > > possibility for people who have otherwise perfect SCD yogurt.> > > > > > > > As is often the case, each question we ask raises > > > > a dozen more. I'm attempting to gather data, so > > > > that our discussions can be based on BTVC and the > > > > science Elaine studied for so many decades.> > > > > > > > YOGURT is an incontrovertible part of SCD, in my view.> > > > > > > > But I think Elaine would be appalled at the idea > > > > of us shutting off our brains and not researching > > > > a question. Even if she would also probably be > > > > tempted to smack us all upside the head for worrying about > > minutia.> > > > > > > > What I suggest is that we get on with making our > > > > yogurt the best way we can. I like my Yogourmet; > > > > you have not found it as useful without the > > > > widget your father and husband rigged. For a > > > > thermostatically controlled yogurt maker, I use > > > > my Excalibur dehydrator, set the temperature and > > > > let 'er rip. (I did test the temps in the box as > > > > being what the control said they were before making the yogurt.)> > > > > > > > I intend to continue researching, as well, and I > > > > can assure you that as soon as I have any data > > > > that might help us, you'll have it.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > — Marilyn> > > > New Orleans, Louisiana, USA> > > > Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001> > > > Darn Good SCD Cook> > > > No Human Children> > > > Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund> > >> >> > >

[Guest guest]

BTVC, pages 156 to 157:

" It is very important to get the temperature correct at 100 to 110

degrees F before you proceed with the fermentation. Too high a

temperature will kill the bacterial culture and will prevent the

proper " digestion " (conversion) of the lactose. Too low a temperature

will prevent activation of bacterial enzymes and will result in

incomplete " digestion " of lactose. "

Wasn't online a few weeks ago to see the posts about 130 degrees so I

don't know what was discussed or its context, but Elaine was very

clear about what she defined as SCD yogurt. Anecdotally, temperatures

higher than 110 (ours was getting up to 120) were causing my husband's

persistant flare last summer. Others on this list seem not to be as

sensitive. Given my husband's experience, we follow to the T Elaine's

directive re the temperatures.

beth

(husband, UC 5.5 yrs, scd 11 mo)

> > Anyway, I was reading here a few weeks ago that the bacteria

> > should be

> > fine up to 130 degrees. Is this a fact or not?

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the reply. Here is the posting I was referring to. So is

the only concern with temperatures above 110 degrees the fact that

lactose will remain in the yogurt (ie. the bacteria are not dead until

130)? And if this is the case, could lactaid could be used as a

precautionary measure in order to digest any remaining lactose?

>

> > > Anyway, I was reading here a few weeks ago that the bacteria

> > > should be

> > > fine up to 130 degrees. Is this a fact or not?

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry, here is the posting.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/BTVC-SCD/message/5276

> >

> > > > Anyway, I was reading here a few weeks ago that the bacteria

> > > > should be

> > > > fine up to 130 degrees. Is this a fact or not?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> > >

> > > > > Anyway, I was reading here a few weeks ago that the bacteria

> > > > > should be

> > > > > fine up to 130 degrees. Is this a fact or not?

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Mike,Thank you for posting that! That was posted before I joined this list and am grateful to be reading it now.Baden Re: Yogurt Starter Temps [revived re: use of Yogourmet]

Sorry, here is the posting.

http://health. groups.yahoo. com/group/ BTVC-SCD/ message/5276

[Guest guest]

Thanks Mara. Well, I was eating about a cup a day, with some honey.

So my next batch which I will make tonight, I will consume more slowly.

From what I understand the problems with the yogurt can be:

1) Consuming too much too quickly can introduce too many bacteria into

the intestines. This can be resolved by starting with a tablespoon a

day and increasing.

2) The lactose is not fully broken down and can cause problems. I

don't think this was the case for me since cheeses and cream soups and

the like never seemed to cause me many problems, just maybe some

excess gas certainly not days of pain and loose stools.

Mara when you say some people need to be more strict do you mean that

they need to make sure the temperature is under 110 degrees to ensure

that the lactose is broken down or that some other problem occurs when

the temp goes to 120?

thanks

Mike

> > > >

> > > > > > Anyway, I was reading here a few weeks ago that the bacteria

> > > > > > should be

> > > > > > fine up to 130 degrees. Is this a fact or not?

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Thanks Mara. Well, I was eating about a cup a day, with some honey.

> So my next batch which I will make tonight, I will consume more slowly.

>

> From what I understand the problems with the yogurt can be:

> 1) Consuming too much too quickly can introduce too many bacteria into

> the intestines. This can be resolved by starting with a tablespoon a

> day and increasing.

>

> 2) The lactose is not fully broken down and can cause problems. I

> don't think this was the case for me since cheeses and cream soups and

> the like never seemed to cause me many problems, just maybe some

> excess gas certainly not days of pain and loose stools.

You have to keep in mind that this diet re-sensitizes people

to things like lactose; its absence means the body's built up

immunity to it no longer avails. Though that doesn't necessarily

mean, either, you will be sensitive to 24+hour yogurt cooked

at a slightly higher temperature.

> Mara when you say some people need to be more strict do you mean that

> they need to make sure the temperature is under 110 degrees to ensure

> that the lactose is broken down or that some other problem occurs when

> the temp goes to 120?

There, I meant that some people have to follow the instructions

precisely to tolerate the yogurt in terms of the lactose being

broken down. For others, more variability in

the temperature is tolerable.

Mara

[Guest guest]

Hi Mike,

We just use a crockpot or slowcooker to make our yoghurt. I just measure the temp with a normal thermometre and try to keep it in between 38 and 43 degrees. At times it goes higher, it's never worried us. Our girls have all thrived on it.

Kindest Regards,

Tracey

Re: Yogurt Starter Temps [revived re: use of Yogourmet]

As a new person trying to start this diet I find this continual debateabout the yogurt frustrating and discouraging. I bought a Yogourmet afew weeks ago on the suggestion of several people and have been usingit. I did flare last week, but I have no idea is it's related to theyogurt or not.Anyway, I was reading here a few weeks ago that the bacteria should befine up to 130 degrees. Is this a fact or not? I have lactaid pillsand I suppose I can start taking a couple before I have my yogurt, butnow this has me wondering if I'm eating the supposed 700 billionbacteria that are supped to be in the yogurt.Desperately hoping for clarity,Mike> > > > > Any thoughts of what I should be doing to ensure my child is > getting> > lactose-free yogurt out of the machine?> > > > Baden> > > > > > > > > > > > > beth,> > > > > > I know you're not intending to be inflammatory. I > > > confess that times like this make me wish I had a > > > hot line to heaven so I could ASK Elaine exactly what she meant.> > > > > > First -- we know that Lactobacillus bulgaricus > > > and Streptococcus thermophilus like a higher side > > > temperature, and they are the two strains which define "yogurt".> > > > > > Second, we know that both Lactobacillus > > > acidophilus and Lactobacillus casei like lower temperatures.> > > > > > Clearly, even if the yogurt is fermented at a > > > higher temperature, we're getting YOGURT.> > > > > > But, as you determined, because of your husband's > > > flare, it may not be quite lactose free, which is > > > what Elaine's method is intended to produce.> > > > > > I have letters in to several people who are > > > knowledgeable about these things, and am hoping > > > to pull up the optimum temperatures for each bacteria.> > > > > > In addition, I have written to the Yogourmet > > > folks, and they are continuing to research the > > > issue. I approached it from the point that I have > > > two of their machines, and I've been quite happy > > > with both, but expressing my concern about the > > > issues so many SCDers have had, and that there > > > are quite a few of us out here. So far, we've > > > exchanged a couple of emails, and I have to say > > > they're honestly perplexed. The fact that we're > > > not duplicating their results in the field, and > > > they're not duplicating our results in the lab > > > makes it hard to find a solution reasonable for all of us.> > > > > > Yogourmet may ignore me, but I've offered the > > > suggestion to them of building a thermostatically > > > controlled yogurt maker, since there are so many > > > thousands of us SCDers out here.> > > > > > What makes this even more difficult is that two > > > people I know who were very, very ill, and who > > > recovered completely, used the Yogourmet yogurt > > > makers, and did not baby sit them the way so many > > > people describe having to do. I believe Elaine herself used the> > Yogourmet.> > > > > > I'm cudgeling around in my brain, and I dimly > > > recall, back around 2002, or 2003, someone who > > > had a problem with the yogurt taking, and after > > > chilling her yogurt, stirring an appropriate > > > amount of Lacteeze drops into it and stirring, > > > and then chilling for 24 hours to be sure that > > > any lactose not completely eaten by the bacteria > > > was eliminated by the Lacteeze. This might be a > > > possibility for people who have otherwise perfect SCD yogurt.> > > > > > As is often the case, each question we ask raises > > > a dozen more. I'm attempting to gather data, so > > > that our discussions can be based on BTVC and the > > > science Elaine studied for so many decades.> > > > > > YOGURT is an incontrovertible part of SCD, in my view.> > > > > > But I think Elaine would be appalled at the idea > > > of us shutting off our brains and not researching > > > a question. Even if she would also probably be > > > tempted to smack us all upside the head for worrying about > minutia.> > > > > > What I suggest is that we get on with making our > > > yogurt the best way we can. I like my Yogourmet; > > > you have not found it as useful without the > > > widget your father and husband rigged. For a > > > thermostatically controlled yogurt maker, I use > > > my Excalibur dehydrator, set the temperature and > > > let 'er rip. (I did test the temps in the box as > > > being what the control said they were before making the yogurt.)> > > > > > I intend to continue researching, as well, and I > > > can assure you that as soon as I have any data > > > that might help us, you'll have it.> > > > > > > > > > > > — Marilyn> > > New Orleans, Louisiana, USA> > > Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001> > > Darn Good SCD Cook> > > No Human Children> > > Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund> >>

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.21/1455 - Release Date: 19/05/2008 5:04 PM

[Guest guest]

I’m wondering if the issue with stable temps is because most of these yogurt makers are made to make yogurt within 12 hours? Maybe the heat builds up after that time? At the same time, reading through the archives, I see that the air temp will be higher than the actual yogurt temp, because it takes more to heat yogurt. I’m still shopping around. I’m hoping on our trip I’ll walk into a thrift store and find an Excalibur 9 or yogurt maker there waiting for me to purchase for $15!! It can happen!

I am looking forward to getting back home and beginning my yogurt making and to feeling normal in my tummy again.

Thanks for this discussion, I’m learning so much from you all.

Blessings,

Betty

[Guest guest]

I have a slowcooker but it only has 2 settings, low and high. How do

you regulate the temperature when you sleep?

> >

> > >

> > > Any thoughts of what I should be doing to ensure my child is

> > getting

> > > lactose-free yogurt out of the machine?

> > >

> > > Baden

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > > beth,

> > > >

> > > > I know you're not intending to be inflammatory. I

> > > > confess that times like this make me wish I had a

> > > > hot line to heaven so I could ASK Elaine exactly what she meant.

> > > >

> > > > First -- we know that Lactobacillus bulgaricus

> > > > and Streptococcus thermophilus like a higher side

> > > > temperature, and they are the two strains which define " yogurt " .

> > > >

> > > > Second, we know that both Lactobacillus

> > > > acidophilus and Lactobacillus casei like lower temperatures.

> > > >

> > > > Clearly, even if the yogurt is fermented at a

> > > > higher temperature, we're getting YOGURT.

> > > >

> > > > But, as you determined, because of your husband's

> > > > flare, it may not be quite lactose free, which is

> > > > what Elaine's method is intended to produce.

> > > >

> > > > I have letters in to several people who are

> > > > knowledgeable about these things, and am hoping

> > > > to pull up the optimum temperatures for each bacteria.

> > > >

> > > > In addition, I have written to the Yogourmet

> > > > folks, and they are continuing to research the

> > > > issue. I approached it from the point that I have

> > > > two of their machines, and I've been quite happy

> > > > with both, but expressing my concern about the

> > > > issues so many SCDers have had, and that there

> > > > are quite a few of us out here. So far, we've

> > > > exchanged a couple of emails, and I have to say

> > > > they're honestly perplexed. The fact that we're

> > > > not duplicating their results in the field, and

> > > > they're not duplicating our results in the lab

> > > > makes it hard to find a solution reasonable for all of us.

> > > >

> > > > Yogourmet may ignore me, but I've offered the

> > > > suggestion to them of building a thermostatically

> > > > controlled yogurt maker, since there are so many

> > > > thousands of us SCDers out here.

> > > >

> > > > What makes this even more difficult is that two

> > > > people I know who were very, very ill, and who

> > > > recovered completely, used the Yogourmet yogurt

> > > > makers, and did not baby sit them the way so many

> > > > people describe having to do. I believe Elaine herself used the

> > > Yogourmet.

> > > >

> > > > I'm cudgeling around in my brain, and I dimly

> > > > recall, back around 2002, or 2003, someone who

> > > > had a problem with the yogurt taking, and after

> > > > chilling her yogurt, stirring an appropriate

> > > > amount of Lacteeze drops into it and stirring,

> > > > and then chilling for 24 hours to be sure that

> > > > any lactose not completely eaten by the bacteria

> > > > was eliminated by the Lacteeze. This might be a

> > > > possibility for people who have otherwise perfect SCD yogurt.

> > > >

> > > > As is often the case, each question we ask raises

> > > > a dozen more. I'm attempting to gather data, so

> > > > that our discussions can be based on BTVC and the

> > > > science Elaine studied for so many decades.

> > > >

> > > > YOGURT is an incontrovertible part of SCD, in my view.

> > > >

> > > > But I think Elaine would be appalled at the idea

> > > > of us shutting off our brains and not researching

> > > > a question. Even if she would also probably be

> > > > tempted to smack us all upside the head for worrying about

> > minutia.

> > > >

> > > > What I suggest is that we get on with making our

> > > > yogurt the best way we can. I like my Yogourmet;

> > > > you have not found it as useful without the

> > > > widget your father and husband rigged. For a

> > > > thermostatically controlled yogurt maker, I use

> > > > my Excalibur dehydrator, set the temperature and

> > > > let 'er rip. (I did test the temps in the box as

> > > > being what the control said they were before making the yogurt.)

> > > >

> > > > I intend to continue researching, as well, and I

> > > > can assure you that as soon as I have any data

> > > > that might help us, you'll have it.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > - Marilyn

> > > > New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

> > > > Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

> > > > Darn Good SCD Cook

> > > > No Human Children

> > > > Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG.

> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.21/1455 - Release Date:

19/05/2008 5:04 PM

>

[Guest guest]

Mike try dripping your yogurt... it helps remove most of the whey and makes it easier to digest ..I have to do it that way for myself. Suzanne Re: Yogurt Starter Temps [revived re: use of Yogourmet]To: BTVC-SCD > Thanks Mara. Well, I was eating about a cup a day, with some > honey. > So my next batch which I will make tonight, I will consume more > slowly.> From what I understand the problems with the yogurt can be:> 1) Consuming too much too quickly can introduce too many > bacteria into> the intestines. This can be resolved by starting with a > tablespoon a> day and increasing.> > 2) The lactose is not fully broken down and can cause problems. I> don't think this was the case for me since cheeses and cream > soups and> the like never seemed to cause me many problems, just maybe some> excess gas certainly not days of pain and loose stools.> > Mara when you say some people need to be more strict do you mean that> they need to make sure the temperature is under 110 degrees to ensure> that the lactose is broken down or that some other problem > occurs when> the temp goes to 120?> > thanks> Mike> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I was reading here a few weeks ago that the > bacteria > > > > > > > should be> > > > > > > fine up to 130 degrees. Is this a fact or not?> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> > >

[Guest guest]

How do you sterilize the cloth that you use for dripping?

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/beginners_guide/yoghurt/dripping_yoghurt\

..htm

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Anyway, I was reading here a few weeks ago that the

> > bacteria

> > > > > > > > should be

> > > > > > > > fine up to 130 degrees. Is this a fact or not?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I use coffee filters the brown ones and I only drip one portion at a time for myself the night before so its ready in the morning.suzanne Re: Yogurt Starter Temps [revived re: use of Yogourmet]To: BTVC-SCD > How do you sterilize the cloth that you use for dripping?> > http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/beginners_guide/yoghurt/dripping_yoghurt.htm> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I was reading here a few weeks ago that > the > > > bacteria > > > > > > > > > should be> > > > > > > > > fine up to 130 degrees. Is this a fact or not?> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >

[Guest guest]

At 02:54 PM 5/19/2008, you wrote:

I think a

thermostatically-controlled version of the Yogourmet would be a major

improvement. The sliding dimmer switch I use to limit the maximum

temperature of my Yogourmet is fairly reliable.

Absolutely -- a thermostatically controlled Yogourmet would be very nice.

I have suggested it to them -- and strongly suggest that anyone else

interested in it should write to the Lyo-San company to recommend it. If

they get enough suggestions (especially if they are actual physical

letters and not just e-mails), they may take our concerns

seriously.

>> I usually check the water bath temperature every few hours once

it is in the fermenting range (I try for 105 F), and I adjust the sliding

switch if required. I still maintain that if the water bath temperature

stays constant, then the yogurt temperature matches the water bath, and

there is no need to measure the temperature inside the inner container. I

write this as a once-upon-a-time engineer (before chronic illness turned

my brains to mush) who is happily married to a still-brilliant engineer

(and former classmate). <<

Yes! My engineer husband agrees with you and your engineer husband! I do

not like all these recommendations to keep opening the yogurt container

and testing the temperature because every time you do so, you risk

introducing wild bacteria or molds to the container. This may not be a

problem for some people, but New Orleans is mold and wild bacteria city,

and I don't want to incubate any of that junk in MY yogurt!

—

Marilyn

New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

Mike,

I can sincerely appreciate your frustration -- I find it extremely

frustrating, too, having seen this debate at least twice a year in the

almost seven years I have been on SCD.

Actually, it's the s. thermophilus (heat-loving) bacteria which are fine

up to 130F... the others have somewhat lower temperatures that they are

fond of. I am still researching, trying to find out what those

temperatures are. None of the webmasters whose sites have information on

yogurt making have elected to write me back when I have queried them. I'm

afraid I got side-tracked on the research by a cancer diagnosis and the

following surgery from which I am still recovering.

DO NOT use lactaid pills. If you're very concerned, get some lacteeze

drops and stir them into your yogurt AFTER it is fermented and chilled,

and then stir once or twice over the following 24 hours.

I can tell you that MY two Yogourmets have always worked perfectly, and

have always produced perfect SCD yogurt -- and I have tested the

temperature of the water bath.

If yours runs hot, there's always a dimmer switch.

—

Marilyn

New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

At 09:53 AM 5/20/2008, you wrote:

How do you sterilize the cloth

that you use for dripping?

Wash it with soap and water, then, when fully rinsed (no soap suds!), dip

it in some bleach water. Your bleach bottle will mention how much to use

to sterilize things. Squeeze out and air-dry.

—

Marilyn

New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

Hey Suzanne,

I haven't read the whole thread so that is why I may be missing out..

Why do you drip it like this? This seems a lot easier to me to do it

this way. Which is a good enough reason for me but I thought maybe

you have some other reasoning?

Jodi

SCD 7 months

Crohn's/Colitis

>

> I use coffee filters the brown ones and I only drip one portion at a

time for myself the night before so its ready in the morning.

> suzanne

[Guest guest]

Marilyn,

Is there something instead of bleach?

Jodi

SCD 7 months

Crohn's/Colitis

> >How do you sterilize the cloth that you use for dripping?

>

> Wash it with soap and water, then, when fully

> rinsed (no soap suds!), dip it in some bleach

> water. Your bleach bottle will mention how much

> to use to sterilize things. Squeeze out and air-dry.