Re: Okay, one of the newbies HAS to ask a question...

[Guest guest]

ASL is American Sign Language and is not based on English. It is the

language of the Deaf in the United States and Canada and the easiest to

learn for babies who are deaf assuming their parents will also use it

because it is not based on being able to hear. ESL is English as a second

language and is not related to deafness. SEE is Signed Exact English and

attempts to convert ASL signs into grammatically correct English word order.

(There are several variations of this) Total Communication is a method of

using anything to get language into a child's brain. It can be a

combination of signing, lip reading, gesturing, amplification etc. Cued

Speech is not a sign language but a method of giving visual cues to what a

word or sound is. One you have left out is PSE which is Pidgeon Signed

English. It is the one that is probably most in use by Deaf adults. Sort

of a combination of ASL and SEE. If a deaf child has language in their

brains at an early age they will generally be able to do something called

code switching. They can quickly switch back and forth depending on the

language they are being presented with at the moment. I would suggest that

you find some deaf adults to interact with soon. Took me awhile to do this

but finally did so when my first deaf child was about 10 years old. These

people truly became my mentors and are still some of my best friends.

DeLores

Hillsboro, OR

dhag@...

to the newbie mother and her 160db question

> >Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:33:09 -0800 (PST)

> >

> >I'm sure you are quite anxious about your child's loss. This is quite

> >normal

> >and feel free to grieve. Be thankful though that the loss has been caught

> >so

> >early with newborn screening. Many of us with older kids had to wait

until

> >our kids were toddlers or older to be diagnosed. You will now be on a

sharp

> >learning curve. The amount of information to be learned about hearing

loss

> >is incredible. I do hope your audiologist will take the time out to

explain

> >the audiogram with you. You will notice it ends at a 120db loss. Even the

> >most powerful aid have a hard time making up for such a profound loss.

The

> >aids you get will probably be very powerful ones but will be set

> >conservatively (as much gain as your audiologist feels comfortable with)

> >until your child can give more reliable responses in testing. A 160 db

loss

> >would never be corrected with aids. Give the aids a shot and see how much

> >your child gains from wearing them. Meanwhile, you should read all you

can

> >about the communication options available for your child. You should be

> >considering them no matter what the actual hearing loss of your child is

> >anyway. If there is little to no gain form hearing aids then you might

> >want

> >to consider either ASL, signed exact English (SEE), Total Communication,

> >Cued Speach or a cochlear implant to aid an oral method of communication.

> >The more you know about your options, the better the decision you can

make

> >regarding what you feel most comfortable with. There is a good

> >cross-section

> >of parents using different methods on this board who would be willing to

> >support you in whatever route you choose. Good luck in your journey and

try

> >to keep in mind that your child is a child first.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >_______________________________________________________

> >Send a cool gift with your E-Card

> >http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/

> >

> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

>

>

>

> All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post

is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to

copyright restrictions.

>

[Guest guest]

At 12:11 PM 12/22/00 -0800, you wrote:

>Okay, I've gotta ask. I'm going to be showing my naievete' (and inability to

>spell) but in this e-mail there were 4 terms that are kind of loosing me. I

>know ASL is American Sign Language

Right.

>(Is this also ESL?

ESL is English as a Second Language. Not usually an issue with our kids,

but some kids who grow up with ASL as their first language DO have English

as a second language.

> Or are there

>variations like there in American English and Brittish English?)

Yes, there are. There's BSL, and there's even Nicaraguan Sign Language... :-)

> SEE (Never

>heard of this one....)

Signing Exact English. ASL is not only signs for English words, it's in a

different grammatical framework, too. SEE is using ASL in English work order.

>Total Communication (also a blank)

This is using sign and oral communication in conjunction with one another.

>and Cues Speech (I

>have a vague understanding that this is a more phonetic type of sign. Yes?

>No?)

Sort of, yeah. There are handshapes that correspond with phonemes. But it's

based on the English language, it's a way to represent the English

language...it's not a language of its own.

[Guest guest]

>ESL is English as a Second Language. Not usually an issue with our kids,

>but some kids who grow up with ASL as their first language DO have English

>as a second language.

>

" Our " kids? Definition, please.

There may be more ASL families on this list than one might imagine.

They are just a tad too intimidated to speak up. My daughter grew up

using ASL, uses it now and will probably use it for the rest of her

life. She learned English as a second language. Her English is better

than most hearing persons'. For many Deaf students ESL *is* an issue.

There is an entire philosophy of education, Bi-lingual/Bi-cultural,

that uses ASL for through the air communication, and teaches English as

a second language. This is the approach I used with my daughter, and

her reading and writing has always been well above her hearing peers.

On the other hand, I have plenty of clients for whom ESL *should* have

been an issue.

Celeste

[Guest guest]

I agree.

DeLores

Hillsboro, OR

dhag@...

----- Original Message -----

> There may be more ASL families on this list than one might imagine.

> They are just a tad too intimidated to speak up.

[Guest guest]

Liz,

> Is there

> a place I can visit on-line to " see " the difference

> in them?

There are sites that will demonstrate individual

signs, but I don't know one that will do what you

suggest. It would be cool to see the same phrase

different ways. This one will demonstrate cueing:

http://web7.mit.edu/CuedSpeech/demo.html

mom to Jeff(8)hoh, (5)hoh, and (3).

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Me...intimidated? Just really busy getting ready for the big day...put

everything off until this weekend - had been very involved with the election

activities, and finishing up my second semester of actual ASL.

In all seriousness, however, I agree with Celeste and Delores. English also

must be a priority for my daughter. I would call it her " other language " but

I would never classify " some of us " ... as there is no choice - one must

learn to read and write English to get along in this world. While I think

speaking it verbally is important, I do not think that speaking should

override the importance of communication - which is why we go with the Total

Communication option. SEE/ASL is her first language, and ASL will overtake

the SEE, and simultaneously, she is learning to speak, write and read

English.

regards

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Liz...

ASL is American Sign Language. Approx 60% of ASL is from French.

It is a true language and not signs in English word order.

SEE is Signing Exact English, but most of the SEE I am familiar with is

Signed English, because the exact English would make you sign for every

word. Esther Solokow, I believe is her name, does SEE workshops.

Total Communication (TC)...combination of signs, oral, and gestures.

Cued Speech: handshapes for phonemes. There are several on the list who are

cuers.

Good Luck!

>

>Reply-To: Listen-Upegroups

>To: Listen-Upegroups

>Subject: Okay, one of the newbies HAS to ask a question...

>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 12:11:10 -0800

>

>Okay, I've gotta ask. I'm going to be showing my naievete' (and inability

>to

>spell) but in this e-mail there were 4 terms that are kind of loosing me. I

>know ASL is American Sign Language (Is this also ESL? Or are there

>variations like there in American English and Brittish English?) SEE (Never

>heard of this one....) Total Communication (also a blank) and Cues Speech

>(I

>have a vague understanding that this is a more phonetic type of sign. Yes?

>No?) Is there a simple way to describe the differences? Can people who sign

>one communicate with one who signs another? Are they inter related? Is

>there

>a place I can visit on-line to " see " the difference in them? I know I'm

>probably asking for too simplistic an answer to a complex question. So,

>thanks for your patience with me

>Huggos

>Liz Garman

>Mother to (moderate to severe bi-lateral.... still waiting on

>aids.) and I'm in information overload.... ARGH, LOL!

>

> >

> >Reply-To: Listen-Upegroups

> >To: Listen-Upegroups

> >Subject: to the newbie mother and her 160db question

> >Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:33:09 -0800 (PST)

> >

> >I'm sure you are quite anxious about your child's loss. This is quite

> >normal

> >and feel free to grieve. Be thankful though that the loss has been caught

> >so

> >early with newborn screening. Many of us with older kids had to wait

>until

> >our kids were toddlers or older to be diagnosed. You will now be on a

>sharp

> >learning curve. The amount of information to be learned about hearing

>loss

> >is incredible. I do hope your audiologist will take the time out to

>explain

> >the audiogram with you. You will notice it ends at a 120db loss. Even the

> >most powerful aid have a hard time making up for such a profound loss.

>The

> >aids you get will probably be very powerful ones but will be set

> >conservatively (as much gain as your audiologist feels comfortable with)

> >until your child can give more reliable responses in testing. A 160 db

>loss

> >would never be corrected with aids. Give the aids a shot and see how much

> >your child gains from wearing them. Meanwhile, you should read all you

>can

> >about the communication options available for your child. You should be

> >considering them no matter what the actual hearing loss of your child is

> >anyway. If there is little to no gain form hearing aids then you might

> >want

> >to consider either ASL, signed exact English (SEE), Total Communication,

> >Cued Speach or a cochlear implant to aid an oral method of communication.

> >The more you know about your options, the better the decision you can

>make

> >regarding what you feel most comfortable with. There is a good

> >cross-section

> >of parents using different methods on this board who would be willing to

> >support you in whatever route you choose. Good luck in your journey and

>try

> >to keep in mind that your child is a child first.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >_______________________________________________________

> >Send a cool gift with your E-Card

> >http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/

> >

> >

>

>_________________________________________________________________

>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

>

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

At 12:00 AM 12/24/00 -0500, you wrote:

> " Our " kids? Definition, please.

Sorry for that ambiguity, Celeste. My family is oral.

[Guest guest]

<<They are just a tad too intimidated to speak up. >>

Intimidated, no. Busy, yes.

, severe-profound, TC at home, AV at school

--- Celeste wrote:

> On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 21:28:22 -0500, Kerri Hicks

> wrote:

>

> >ESL is English as a Second Language. Not usually an

> issue with our kids,

> >but some kids who grow up with ASL as their first

> language DO have English

> >as a second language.

> >

>

> " Our " kids? Definition, please.

>

> There may be more ASL families on this list than one

> might imagine.

> They are just a tad too intimidated to speak up. My

> daughter grew up

> using ASL, uses it now and will probably use it for

> the rest of her

> life. She learned English as a second language.

> Her English is better

> than most hearing persons'. For many Deaf students

> ESL *is* an issue.

> There is an entire philosophy of education,

> Bi-lingual/Bi-cultural,

> that uses ASL for through the air communication, and

> teaches English as

> a second language. This is the approach I used with

> my daughter, and

> her reading and writing has always been well above

> her hearing peers.

>

> On the other hand, I have plenty of clients for whom

> ESL *should* have

> been an issue.

>

> Celeste

>

>

=====

Our Family Page:

http://johansenfamily.homestead.com/

**********************************************************

As of today 92 firefighters have died in the line of duty since Jan.1,2000. May

they watch over those of us who continue to fight the dragon, and may they be

waiting at the gates for those brothers and sisters that are also called home.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Thanks all for the replys... sorry it's been a while to get back to the

discussion... this Christmas thing is going to wipe me out. I'm still

wondering about ESL... I've heard the term as English as a Second Language

but I've got a book that refers to 'English Signing' It's a very beginning,

very basic text book that my audiologist lent me. (I was asking a lot of

technical questions and she though it would help answer some questions that

I had. If not, it would give me a better foundation for everything I was

learning) The book was written in the early 80s and it's about the hearing

impaired in schools and in " normal hearing " families, the interaction in

technology and school systems and what is most commonly used, etc. I had

been asking about the ABR, the PureTone test and some other test they had

done on Jonny both at school and in her office. The numbers were not adding

up and I'm not a person who accepts that ABRs show higher thresholds than

Puretone. I need to understand why. In any event, I ran across this phrase a

number of times. I've also read it as 'English Exact Sign' From what you are

all explaining I'm wondering if this is SEE. ARGH! I wish they'd get

consistent with termanology! It took me about 10 minutes to get the fact

that Ear Level Aids and Behind The Ear Aids are interchangable in phrase

use. Well, hope all of you have a good weekend. Thanks for all the info too!

Since Jonny dosen't have his aids yet I can't add to the mold/feedback line

of questions that have been out but I'm sure I'll be in the boat soon. I

have been reading all of the posts, however, in the hopes that with a better

understanding of the difficulties others are having, I won't be as shocked

if it happens to us.

Thanks and HUGGOS

>

>Reply-To: Listen-Upegroups

>To: <Listen-Upegroups>

>Subject: Re: Okay, one of the newbies HAS to ask a question...

>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:16:24 -0800

>

>ASL is American Sign Language and is not based on English. It is the

>language of the Deaf in the United States and Canada and the easiest to

>learn for babies who are deaf assuming their parents will also use it

>because it is not based on being able to hear. ESL is English as a second

>language and is not related to deafness. SEE is Signed Exact English and

>attempts to convert ASL signs into grammatically correct English word

>order.

>(There are several variations of this) Total Communication is a method of

>using anything to get language into a child's brain. It can be a

>combination of signing, lip reading, gesturing, amplification etc. Cued

>Speech is not a sign language but a method of giving visual cues to what a

>word or sound is. One you have left out is PSE which is Pidgeon Signed

>English. It is the one that is probably most in use by Deaf adults. Sort

>of a combination of ASL and SEE. If a deaf child has language in their

>brains at an early age they will generally be able to do something called

>code switching. They can quickly switch back and forth depending on the

>language they are being presented with at the moment. I would suggest that

>you find some deaf adults to interact with soon. Took me awhile to do this

>but finally did so when my first deaf child was about 10 years old. These

>people truly became my mentors and are still some of my best friends.

>

>DeLores

>Hillsboro, OR

>dhag@...

>

> to the newbie mother and her 160db question

> > >Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:33:09 -0800 (PST)

> > >

> > >I'm sure you are quite anxious about your child's loss. This is quite

> > >normal

> > >and feel free to grieve. Be thankful though that the loss has been

>caught

> > >so

> > >early with newborn screening. Many of us with older kids had to wait

>until

> > >our kids were toddlers or older to be diagnosed. You will now be on a

>sharp

> > >learning curve. The amount of information to be learned about hearing

>loss

> > >is incredible. I do hope your audiologist will take the time out to

>explain

> > >the audiogram with you. You will notice it ends at a 120db loss. Even

>the

> > >most powerful aid have a hard time making up for such a profound loss.

>The

> > >aids you get will probably be very powerful ones but will be set

> > >conservatively (as much gain as your audiologist feels comfortable

>with)

> > >until your child can give more reliable responses in testing. A 160 db

>loss

> > >would never be corrected with aids. Give the aids a shot and see how

>much

> > >your child gains from wearing them. Meanwhile, you should read all you

>can

> > >about the communication options available for your child. You should be

> > >considering them no matter what the actual hearing loss of your child

>is

> > >anyway. If there is little to no gain form hearing aids then you might

> > >want

> > >to consider either ASL, signed exact English (SEE), Total

>Communication,

> > >Cued Speach or a cochlear implant to aid an oral method of

>communication.

> > >The more you know about your options, the better the decision you can

>make

> > >regarding what you feel most comfortable with. There is a good

> > >cross-section

> > >of parents using different methods on this board who would be willing

>to

> > >support you in whatever route you choose. Good luck in your journey and

>try

> > >to keep in mind that your child is a child first.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >_______________________________________________________

> > >Send a cool gift with your E-Card

> > >http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/

> > >

> > >

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

> >

> >

> >

> > All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each

>post

>is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to

>copyright restrictions.

> >

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Okay, now I'm really confused... as you all can tell, I'm still reading

replys and such... Sorry I'm behind! Now I'm wondering if the ESL

abreviation is being used as it's English as a Second Language abreviation.

(They do refer to schools and curriculum and technology.) If English Sign is

an editor's phrasing. And if English Exact Sign in SEE. I'm going to have to

dig out the book (If I can dig my way through the mound of wrapping paper in

my living room. I'm convinved my dining table has been eaten!) and get some

exact quotes to list. I'm also going to quiz my audologist before she lends

these books out to anyone else. Okay, maybe it's just be, but I'm

vocabularaly-confused. I'm getting better but I'm going to be taking notes

for years on out! Maybe if glossary's were mandatory I'd be better off. I

also feel a bit silly about this. I'm not a slow person. I am generally a

quick study.

Oops, the ham's smelling like it's getting ready to give up and burn

HUGGOS

>

>Reply-To: Listen-Upegroups

>To: " Listen-Upegroups " <Listen-Upegroups>

>Subject: Re: Okay, one of the newbies HAS to ask a question...

>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 00:00:11 -0500

>

>

>

> >ESL is English as a Second Language. Not usually an issue with our kids,

> >but some kids who grow up with ASL as their first language DO have

>English

> >as a second language.

> >

>

> " Our " kids? Definition, please.

>

>There may be more ASL families on this list than one might imagine.

>They are just a tad too intimidated to speak up. My daughter grew up

>using ASL, uses it now and will probably use it for the rest of her

>life. She learned English as a second language. Her English is better

>than most hearing persons'. For many Deaf students ESL *is* an issue.

>There is an entire philosophy of education, Bi-lingual/Bi-cultural,

>that uses ASL for through the air communication, and teaches English as

>a second language. This is the approach I used with my daughter, and

>her reading and writing has always been well above her hearing peers.

>

>On the other hand, I have plenty of clients for whom ESL *should* have

>been an issue.

>

>Celeste

>

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Liz.....

Merry Christmas. Mine is quiet so far. What state are you in? Telling us

could help point you to some resources.

This will just take a little time; don't worry - we've all been in your

shoes. To confuse you a little more - with manual communication - here are

some common phrases.

The common phrases are:

CS - Cued Speech

ASL - American Sign Language

SEE - Signing Exact English

MCE - Manual Coded English

TC - Total Communication

Sim - Com (Simultaneous Communication)

Bi-Bi - Bilingual/Bicultural (this is where the children are taught in ASL

and to read and write in English. They are also exposed to and mentored by

Deaf adults.

ESL is English as a Second Language.

Not to be rude about your audiologist but I'd recommend you, on your own,

see what resources there are in your community for Deaf/Hard of hearing

people. There are resources out there audiologists don't even know about.

You'll always be taking notes; you'll be in constant communication with your

child's teachers. Get used to dragging a pad and pen around. Even out

shopping, I meet people who I can use as a resource...or meet interpreters

in training (even at the Pokemon store). I've been at this eight years and

am still learning.

Best wishes,

mary

>

>Reply-To: Listen-Upegroups

>To: Listen-Upegroups

>Subject: Re: Okay, one of the newbies HAS to ask a question...

>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 05:48:41 -0800

>

>Okay, now I'm really confused... as you all can tell, I'm still reading

>replys and such... Sorry I'm behind! Now I'm wondering if the ESL

>abreviation is being used as it's English as a Second Language abreviation.

>(They do refer to schools and curriculum and technology.) If English Sign

>is

>an editor's phrasing. And if English Exact Sign in SEE. I'm going to have

>to

>dig out the book (If I can dig my way through the mound of wrapping paper

>in

>my living room. I'm convinved my dining table has been eaten!) and get some

>exact quotes to list. I'm also going to quiz my audologist before she lends

>these books out to anyone else. Okay, maybe it's just be, but I'm

>vocabularaly-confused. I'm getting better but I'm going to be taking notes

>for years on out! Maybe if glossary's were mandatory I'd be better off. I

>also feel a bit silly about this. I'm not a slow person. I am generally a

>quick study.

>Oops, the ham's smelling like it's getting ready to give up and burn

>HUGGOS

>

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/24/00 1:27:53 AM Central Standard Time,

maryemapa@... writes:

> I do not think that speaking should

> override the importance of communication - which is why we go with the

> Total

> Communication option. SEE/ASL is her first language, and ASL will overtake

> the SEE, and simultaneously, she is learning to speak, write and read

> English.

>

> regards

>

>

>

>

>

That's me too! We use a mixed version of SEE2 and ASL that I have heard

called CASE (Conceptually Accurate Signed English). My daughters loss is

profound, so her speech may never be intelligible, and the world will not

learn to sign for her, so she MUST be able to read and write well.

kelli

Mom to Mysti, 10 y/o, deaf mainstreamed with an interpreter

Oklahoma

[Guest guest]

I hope all went well with every one's Christmas.

Thanks all for the " translation " of the vocabulary. I'm actually in a wierd

situation for meeting people in the hearing impaired community. We are

living in Germany on a Ramstein air force base (Abour 45 mintues from

furt) This base is one of the larger over-seas installations. The draw

back is that there are still only about 50,000 americans (including family

members) in Germany. The hearing impaired community is VERY small and we're

all kind of on our own. I've been trying to find a support group, interest

group, whatever-the-PC-name-they'll-take-on group. I'm thinking I just may

have to start one.

>

>Reply-To: Listen-Upegroups

>To: Listen-Upegroups

>Subject: Re: Okay, one of the newbies HAS to ask a question...

>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 09:30:40 -0800

>

>

>Liz.....

>Merry Christmas. Mine is quiet so far. What state are you in? Telling us

>could help point you to some resources.

>This will just take a little time; don't worry - we've all been in your

>shoes. To confuse you a little more - with manual communication - here are

>some common phrases.

>

>The common phrases are:

>CS - Cued Speech

>ASL - American Sign Language

>SEE - Signing Exact English

>MCE - Manual Coded English

>TC - Total Communication

>Sim - Com (Simultaneous Communication)

>Bi-Bi - Bilingual/Bicultural (this is where the children are taught in ASL

>and to read and write in English. They are also exposed to and mentored by

>Deaf adults.

>ESL is English as a Second Language.

>

>Not to be rude about your audiologist but I'd recommend you, on your own,

>see what resources there are in your community for Deaf/Hard of hearing

>people. There are resources out there audiologists don't even know about.

>

>You'll always be taking notes; you'll be in constant communication with

>your

>child's teachers. Get used to dragging a pad and pen around. Even out

>shopping, I meet people who I can use as a resource...or meet interpreters

>in training (even at the Pokemon store). I've been at this eight years and

>am still learning.

>

>Best wishes,

>mary

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> >Reply-To: Listen-Upegroups

> >To: Listen-Upegroups

> >Subject: Re: Okay, one of the newbies HAS to ask a

>question...

> >Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 05:48:41 -0800

> >

> >Okay, now I'm really confused... as you all can tell, I'm still reading

> >replys and such... Sorry I'm behind! Now I'm wondering if the ESL

> >abreviation is being used as it's English as a Second Language

>abreviation.

> >(They do refer to schools and curriculum and technology.) If English Sign

> >is

> >an editor's phrasing. And if English Exact Sign in SEE. I'm going to have

> >to

> >dig out the book (If I can dig my way through the mound of wrapping paper

> >in

> >my living room. I'm convinved my dining table has been eaten!) and get

>some

> >exact quotes to list. I'm also going to quiz my audologist before she

>lends

> >these books out to anyone else. Okay, maybe it's just be, but I'm

> >vocabularaly-confused. I'm getting better but I'm going to be taking

>notes

> >for years on out! Maybe if glossary's were mandatory I'd be better off. I

> >also feel a bit silly about this. I'm not a slow person. I am generally a

> >quick study.

> >Oops, the ham's smelling like it's getting ready to give up and burn

> >HUGGOS

> >

> >

> >

>

>_________________________________________________________________

>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

>

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[Guest guest]

Have you had a good look around Kays site? (It gets bigger all the time) If you

go to the web map it really breaks down every topic...the part about

Interpreting Info

and Resources would probably be a big help and I believe there is also a list of

all the acronyms (sp) Don;t worry about not grasping it all I am nearly two

years in now

and I still find myself asking a ton of questions....it does get easier though!

:-)

Take Care!

~ and 's Mom

Garman wrote:

> Thanks all for the replys... sorry it's been a while to get back to the

> discussion... this Christmas thing is going to wipe me out. I'm still

> wondering about ESL... I've heard the term as English as a Second Language

> but I've got a book that refers to 'English Signing' It's a very beginning,

> very basic text book that my audiologist lent me. (I was asking a lot of

> technical questions and she though it would help answer some questions that

> I had. If not, it would give me a better foundation for everything I was

> learning) The book was written in the early 80s and it's about the hearing

> impaired in schools and in " normal hearing " families, the interaction in

> technology and school systems and what is most commonly used, etc. I had

> been asking about the ABR, the PureTone test and some other test they had

> done on Jonny both at school and in her office. The numbers were not adding

> up and I'm not a person who accepts that ABRs show higher thresholds than

> Puretone. I need to understand why. In any event, I ran across this phrase a

> number of times. I've also read it as 'English Exact Sign' From what you are

> all explaining I'm wondering if this is SEE. ARGH! I wish they'd get

> consistent with termanology! It took me about 10 minutes to get the fact

> that Ear Level Aids and Behind The Ear Aids are interchangable in phrase

> use. Well, hope all of you have a good weekend. Thanks for all the info too!

> Since Jonny dosen't have his aids yet I can't add to the mold/feedback line

> of questions that have been out but I'm sure I'll be in the boat soon. I

> have been reading all of the posts, however, in the hopes that with a better

> understanding of the difficulties others are having, I won't be as shocked

> if it happens to us.

> Thanks and HUGGOS

>

>

> >

> >Reply-To: Listen-Upegroups

> >To: <Listen-Upegroups>

> >Subject: Re: Okay, one of the newbies HAS to ask a question...

> >Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:16:24 -0800

> >

> >ASL is American Sign Language and is not based on English. It is the

> >language of the Deaf in the United States and Canada and the easiest to

> >learn for babies who are deaf assuming their parents will also use it

> >because it is not based on being able to hear. ESL is English as a second

> >language and is not related to deafness. SEE is Signed Exact English and

> >attempts to convert ASL signs into grammatically correct English word

> >order.

> >(There are several variations of this) Total Communication is a method of

> >using anything to get language into a child's brain. It can be a

> >combination of signing, lip reading, gesturing, amplification etc. Cued

> >Speech is not a sign language but a method of giving visual cues to what a

> >word or sound is. One you have left out is PSE which is Pidgeon Signed

> >English. It is the one that is probably most in use by Deaf adults. Sort

> >of a combination of ASL and SEE. If a deaf child has language in their

> >brains at an early age they will generally be able to do something called

> >code switching. They can quickly switch back and forth depending on the

> >language they are being presented with at the moment. I would suggest that

> >you find some deaf adults to interact with soon. Took me awhile to do this

> >but finally did so when my first deaf child was about 10 years old. These

> >people truly became my mentors and are still some of my best friends.

> >

> >DeLores

> >Hillsboro, OR

> >dhag@...

> >

> > to the newbie mother and her 160db question

> > > >Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:33:09 -0800 (PST)

> > > >

> > > >I'm sure you are quite anxious about your child's loss. This is quite

> > > >normal

> > > >and feel free to grieve. Be thankful though that the loss has been

> >caught

> > > >so

> > > >early with newborn screening. Many of us with older kids had to wait

> >until

> > > >our kids were toddlers or older to be diagnosed. You will now be on a

> >sharp

> > > >learning curve. The amount of information to be learned about hearing

> >loss

> > > >is incredible. I do hope your audiologist will take the time out to

> >explain

> > > >the audiogram with you. You will notice it ends at a 120db loss. Even

> >the

> > > >most powerful aid have a hard time making up for such a profound loss.

> >The

> > > >aids you get will probably be very powerful ones but will be set

> > > >conservatively (as much gain as your audiologist feels comfortable

> >with)

> > > >until your child can give more reliable responses in testing. A 160 db

> >loss

> > > >would never be corrected with aids. Give the aids a shot and see how

> >much

> > > >your child gains from wearing them. Meanwhile, you should read all you

> >can

> > > >about the communication options available for your child. You should be

> > > >considering them no matter what the actual hearing loss of your child

> >is

> > > >anyway. If there is little to no gain form hearing aids then you might

> > > >want

> > > >to consider either ASL, signed exact English (SEE), Total

> >Communication,

> > > >Cued Speach or a cochlear implant to aid an oral method of

> >communication.

> > > >The more you know about your options, the better the decision you can

> >make

> > > >regarding what you feel most comfortable with. There is a good

> > > >cross-section

> > > >of parents using different methods on this board who would be willing

> >to

> > > >support you in whatever route you choose. Good luck in your journey and

> >try

> > > >to keep in mind that your child is a child first.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >_______________________________________________________

> > > >Send a cool gift with your E-Card

> > > >http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > _________________________________________________________________

> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each

> >post

> >is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to

> >copyright restrictions.

> > >

> >

> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

>

>

> All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post is

the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to copyright

restrictions.

[Guest guest]

We are a family that uses ASL. We have one deaf parent, who came into the

family as a step-parent after a deaf child was adopted. Our deaf child uses

ASL as her primary language and is learning English in a sort of ESL

approach. All the people in our immediate family and many in our extended

family have learned to sign, some well, some minimally, but with good

intentions and heart. The signing by hearing and HOH people in our family

extends along a continuum from pretty close to ASL to PSE to sign-supported

English. We have had a Total Communication philosophy in our communication,

which is not a communication method in itself, but an attitude toward

communication, that uses whatever method works to make it meaningful. For

us, it has included not only ASL and other forms of sign language, but also

mime, drawing, demonstrating, and various uses of written and spoken

English.

Having deaf friends, both adult and child, is an important part of our

lives and language usage. I began to learn ASL before I adopted my daughter,

and continued taking classes after she came to me. Having fluent adult

language models is really important in improving my own language skills. The

other parent in our family learned ASL in a different part of the country,

and the regional differences show up. We need to have good resources to sort

out what is " wrong " from what is " just different " .

I would also like to point out something about ESL and deaf children. We

live in Los Angeles, where Spanish is prevalent. In the eight years my

daughter has been in public school deaf programs, she has had only one or

two classmates whose parents spoke English. Finding communication methods

when the family speaks Spanish and the school uses English and/or ASL is a

real challenge. I don't know where those families go for support, but if

anyone knows of good resources, I would love to be able to pass them along.

(I work with newborn hearing screening, and see many Spanish-speaking

families with few sources of support for their deaf children.)

Judith Longman, HOH

mom of Pearl, 10 y.o., severe to profound hearing loss

and ph, HOH

and 5 others with normal hearing, whatever that means

[Guest guest]

<<. I'm actually in a wierd

situation for meeting people in the hearing impaired

community. We are

living in Germany on a Ramstein air force base (Abour

45 mintues from

furt) This base is one of the larger over-seas

installations. The draw

back is that there are still only about 50,000

americans (including family

members) in Germany. The hearing impaired community is

VERY small >>

Hi Liz,

I am a Navy wife so I can understand where you are

coming from. We are lucky to be stationed at a great

base in CT and our son gets great care and the schools

are great. However, hubby may have to transfer next

year and we're praying that he can get on a sub here

in CT. We have only met 1 other military family in the

area that has a deaf child and I dont think they live

around here anymore--it certainly does get lonely.

Take care,

--7 on Jan.7, severe-profound, Siemens MUSIC

bicross aids, TC, mainstreamed in first grade

-5 and ph-2

--- Garman wrote:

> I hope all went well with every one's Christmas.

> Thanks all for the " translation " of the vocabulary.

> I'm actually in a wierd

> situation for meeting people in the hearing impaired

> community. We are

> living in Germany on a Ramstein air force base

> (Abour 45 mintues from

> furt) This base is one of the larger over-seas

> installations. The draw

> back is that there are still only about 50,000

> americans (including family

> members) in Germany. The hearing impaired community

> is VERY small and we're

> all kind of on our own. I've been trying to find a

> support group, interest

> group, whatever-the-PC-name-they'll-take-on group.

> I'm thinking I just may

> have to start one.

>

>

> >

> >Reply-To: Listen-Upegroups

> >To: Listen-Upegroups

> >Subject: Re: Okay, one of the newbies

> HAS to ask a question...

> >Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 09:30:40 -0800

> >

> >

> >Liz.....

> >Merry Christmas. Mine is quiet so far. What state

> are you in? Telling us

> >could help point you to some resources.

> >This will just take a little time; don't worry -

> we've all been in your

> >shoes. To confuse you a little more - with manual

> communication - here are

> >some common phrases.

> >

> >The common phrases are:

> >CS - Cued Speech

> >ASL - American Sign Language

> >SEE - Signing Exact English

> >MCE - Manual Coded English

> >TC - Total Communication

> >Sim - Com (Simultaneous Communication)

> >Bi-Bi - Bilingual/Bicultural (this is where the

> children are taught in ASL

> >and to read and write in English. They are also

> exposed to and mentored by

> >Deaf adults.

> >ESL is English as a Second Language.

> >

> >Not to be rude about your audiologist but I'd

> recommend you, on your own,

> >see what resources there are in your community for

> Deaf/Hard of hearing

> >people. There are resources out there audiologists

> don't even know about.

> >

> >You'll always be taking notes; you'll be in

> constant communication with

> >your

> >child's teachers. Get used to dragging a pad and

> pen around. Even out

> >shopping, I meet people who I can use as a

> resource...or meet interpreters

> >in training (even at the Pokemon store). I've been

> at this eight years and

> >am still learning.

> >

> >Best wishes,

> >mary

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > >Reply-To: Listen-Upegroups

> > >To: Listen-Upegroups

> > >Subject: Re: Okay, one of the newbies

> HAS to ask a

> >question...

> > >Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 05:48:41 -0800

> > >

> > >Okay, now I'm really confused... as you all can

> tell, I'm still reading

> > >replys and such... Sorry I'm behind! Now I'm

> wondering if the ESL

> > >abreviation is being used as it's English as a

> Second Language

> >abreviation.

> > >(They do refer to schools and curriculum and

> technology.) If English Sign

> > >is

> > >an editor's phrasing. And if English Exact Sign

> in SEE. I'm going to have

> > >to

> > >dig out the book (If I can dig my way through the

> mound of wrapping paper

> > >in

> > >my living room. I'm convinved my dining table has

> been eaten!) and get

> >some

> > >exact quotes to list. I'm also going to quiz my

> audologist before she

> >lends

> > >these books out to anyone else. Okay, maybe it's

> just be, but I'm

> > >vocabularaly-confused. I'm getting better but I'm

> going to be taking

> >notes

> > >for years on out! Maybe if glossary's were

> mandatory I'd be better off. I

> > >also feel a bit silly about this. I'm not a slow

> person. I am generally a

> > >quick study.

> > >Oops, the ham's smelling like it's getting ready

> to give up and burn

> > >HUGGOS

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>_________________________________________________________________

> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at

> http://explorer.msn.com

> >

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at

> http://explorer.msn.com

>

>

=====

Our Family Page:

http://johansenfamily.homestead.com/

**********************************************************

As of today 92 firefighters have died in the line of duty since Jan.1,2000. May

they watch over those of us who continue to fight the dragon, and may they be

waiting at the gates for those brothers and sisters that are also called home.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> We are

> living in Germany on a Ramstein air force base

Here is a thought: Contact the EFMP office on your base and see if they won't

agree to

either start up a support group, or perhaps give you some info about starting

one. When we

arrived here at Lackland AFB (TX) and visited the folks there, after we had

chatted a

while, the advisor there asked us if we minded if we would act as a point of

contact for

anyone who PCSs in with a deaf child. We've had a couple families to our home so

far. If

nothing else, you could at least see if EFMP will do this for you folks - that

way folks

coming in won't feel like they're the only ones there.

Kay

PS - For the non-military folks among us, EFMP stands for Exceptional Family

Member

Program. They're supposed to see that dependents with special needs are getting

those

needs met. Generally this consists of them calling us once a year to see if JD's

still

deaf (no kidding - I can't tell you how many smart-ass answers they almost got).

BUT, they

were the ones who we managed to convince that JD's needs were not being met and

they got

us transferred somewhere that could meet his needs.

[Guest guest]

That's a really good idea! Thanks!

I have to ROFLMAO about the EFMP office. The military has seemed to only

gotten more ridiculous as the years have gone on. I was born an AF brat. My

Great-grandfather was Navy. My Grandfather was Navy then USMC. My dad was

Air Force. My husband is AF. My father-in-law was Navy. I have 1 uncle who

was Air Force, one who was Army.... Shall I go on? I secretly think our

family bleeds camoflague. LOL. I think I've heard most of the jokes out

there but I can definately say... the truth is stranger then fiction. I

doubt I will ever understand the military or their rationale. I think the

next time the EFMP office calls you should start sobbing and say that you

were abducted my Agents Mulder and Scully, FBI. (They're the characters in

the X-Files TV show for those of you who are wondering what I'm talking

about) They took you and your son to an alien ship and gave you the power to

heal everybody, to make the blind see, etc. Ask if they'd like to join you

on your next visit to the ship... LOL.... No, better not... You might find

the police at your door wtih a " new, white jacket. " I can definately some of

the responses that you've given.

Huggos

Liz

>

>Reply-To: Listen-Upegroups

>To: <Listen-Upegroups>

>Subject: Re: Okay, one of the newbies HAS to ask a question...

>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:30:14 -0600

>

> > We are

> > living in Germany on a Ramstein air force base

>

>Here is a thought: Contact the EFMP office on your base and see if they

>won't agree to

>either start up a support group, or perhaps give you some info about

>starting one. When we

>arrived here at Lackland AFB (TX) and visited the folks there, after we had

>chatted a

>while, the advisor there asked us if we minded if we would act as a point

>of contact for

>anyone who PCSs in with a deaf child. We've had a couple families to our

>home so far. If

>nothing else, you could at least see if EFMP will do this for you folks -

>that way folks

>coming in won't feel like they're the only ones there.

>

>Kay

>PS - For the non-military folks among us, EFMP stands for Exceptional

>Family Member

>Program. They're supposed to see that dependents with special needs are

>getting those

>needs met. Generally this consists of them calling us once a year to see if

>JD's still

>deaf (no kidding - I can't tell you how many smart-ass answers they almost

>got). BUT, they

>were the ones who we managed to convince that JD's needs were not being met

>and they got

>us transferred somewhere that could meet his needs.

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com