Re: poop consistency - takes time or research?

July 17, 2008

>

> I don't feel I'm being very articulate here so if this is confusing,

please ask questions, etc...

>

> My son, 3.5 yrs, has Celiac Disease. I originally had him on a

default allergen-elimination diet, then moved to SCD.

>

> Last night I reviewed my son's food/poop/sleep journal of the last 7

months. Something in those records confused me. Specifically, while

most things (development, behaviour, mood, sleep, tooth enamel,

stomach pain, height, iron, etc) are resolved on any restricted diet,

the poops tend to be all over the map regardless. This has been true

since his original elimination diet (started Dec 8th, 2007) right

through. ie. Two good days, then a bad day, then five good days, then

three bad ones, two good weeks, etc. I so far have not been able to

find a pattern. Of note, the poop changes rarely seem to correlate to

mood, sleep, etc.

>

> 1. Since the mood/sleep/etc are gut-based issues, why can they be

awesome even while a given day's poop is not?

>

> 2. If all else is going incredibly well, do I just wait for the

poops to become consistently perfect or do I keep restarting intro and

testing early foods over again? In other words, in Celiac Disease, can

poops be inconsistent (good one day, bad another) in the longer term

even if one is ingesting the exact same things every day? ie. Is this

something that has to be waited out or something that has to be

figured out?

>

> I would be grateful to hear from those with UC or Crohn's also,

because the patterns you have seen in yourselves will probably be

quite relevant.

>

> Cheers,

> Baden

>

July 17, 2008

Hit send too soon ARGH!

Just wanted to say that I am so happy that you posted this and any

answers you get off-list, if you can fwd it to me that would be very

much appreciated!

Jodi

SCD 9 months

Crohn's/Colitis

July 18, 2008

If all else is going incredibly well, do I just wait for thepoops to become consistently perfect

Hi Baden,

Is your son overweight? Is he taking any probiotics? The addition of acidophilus often corrects mushy stools. If he is taking probiotics, maybe they should be increased a little.

From Elaine: (don't know if this will help you - but it's a thought)

Take care,

Pat

surely you must know about the subclass of people with intestinal disorders, those who have diarrhea (your baby does not have diarrhea if the stools are mushy but it sure is one of the pointers to celiac.) Do you remember my telling you about those with UC and Crohn's and just chronic diarrhea who have been overweight for years and cannot lose. I used to speak at Weight Watchers, etc. and found out that more than half those overweight have chronic diarrhea. Of course my third Nobel prize will be won for this hypothesis (first for writing BTVC and second for developing the muffin recipe): the volatile organic fatty acids produced by bacteria from unabsorbed (undigested starch and disaccharides) are absorbed and their caloric value is very high (like alcohol) and those obese people with chronic diarrhea are absorbing these small molecules (2,3,4 carbons) and are practicing rumen digestion instead of normal human digestion. If you do not know what rumen digestion is, it is the breakdown in the cow's first stomach of carbs and the production of various fatty acids by bacteria of the rumen. These fatty acids can be manipulated by the farmer depending on which grain starch he feeds them. In certain cases, he can lower the cream in the milk, etc. Then the cow regurgitates what is remaining and then what the bacteria did not complete in the digestion of carbs, proteins and fats, follows somewhat the course of human digestion. In the grainfed cows, they had an oversupply of grain starch which was fermented into the volatile fatty acids in their colons, raised the acidity and turned on genes in E.coli in the colon which caused the harmless E.coli to become the pathological strain 0157 (?) (I always get those numbers mixed up). All I am trying to say is that being chubby is not always a sign of good health. But I do not want to worry you, I do believe the SCD will kick in once you start getting some acidophilus powder in him.Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today.

July 18, 2008

For sure I will, Jodi.While I was posting, I was thinking the question might resonate with you.Cheers,Baden Re: poop consistency - takes time or research?

Hit send too soon ARGH!

Just wanted to say that I am so happy that you posted this and any

answers you get off-list, if you can fwd it to me that would be very

much appreciated!___

July 18, 2008

Baden;

For me different triggers cause different things......

ex propane causes me to rage. mold causes me to rage. tree pollen

and dust mites cause me to cry. Cows cheese , tomatoes, orange cause

me to rage. pumpkin causes " D " as does fragrance. Tree pollen and

dust mites also cause bleeding. Newspapers cause bleeding in stool

too.

I have MCS as well as UC and it impacts my UC. There is a theory out

there that it depends upon which organ of the body is targeted by

the substance which organ would respond......so not all things

impact the brain (mood etc) and the gut at the same time.

Perhaps looking into pollen trends might help give insight. They go

down after a rain. And mark the pollen levels in your log as well

and then see if that explains any trends.

Michele

July 18, 2008

Hi Baden,

Your post made me think at things that set my gut off that are like

not as obvious to me and it takes some time for me to think about it

and review (not nearly as organized as you keeping logs and journals-

I started one and I don't even know where I put it! LOL).

These things over the course of at least 18 years have consistently

changed the consistency of my BM; pre-SCD too!

1) if I don't eat on time

2) get the slightest bit over hungry and don't eat (because I am busy

or tired or whatever)

3) I eat too many of the same foods all the time and don't rotate what

I am eating (which this is a huge problem for me as I am not one of

those people who has 7 different cooked things in fridge although I am

trying to get to that place, it is just a lot of work for me) but

there needs to be some coherence and not just " mixing it up " or else

#4 happens.

4) If I don't have some consistent items and same foods in my

rotation. So like getting a balance between 3 & 4 really is quite

difficult!

5) The environment plays a part in how my BM's look as well.

Pollution and allergies are big ones that set it off.

6) Water quality. Over the years this has become more and more of a

problem for me.

7) Menstrual issues.

Recently, I remember reading that we shouldn't only gauge how the BM's

look to see how we are doing. We should look at the whole over-all

picture. I understand this in theory but putting it into practice is

a bit more difficult for me. What do I mean? Well, obviously if I am

not experiencing all these other horrible things (like now this 9

month flare thing I am going through.. well, I am not experiencing

-any- intestinal spasms or whimpering in pain hallucinating. I

consider this a massive step. Meanwhile running to the bathroom 15-20

times a day with extreme urgency or fecal incontinence is not fun at

all) I understand that this healing process is as lin always

points out 1 step forward 2 steps back and so on. But knowing when to

add foods or what foods are aggravating when the BM's are mess is just

difficult and very confusing in knowing what to do or how to proceed.

I usually try to see if there is any type of

pain/tiredness/exhaustion associated with foods besides the BM barometer.

I am now doing stool testing from Genova diagnostics (1st test got

lost in the mail!!!) So, now I am doing a second test. I am a patient

at the Hoffman Institute and my doctor there said if this kind of D

and crazy BM's have been going on usually other pathogens/bacteria are

involved. at Healing Crow has posted about this over and over

again. Perhaps you should look into this as well? Also, there is the

Colitis panel test from ImmunoScience which is supposed to be very

good as well. If they are looking for pathogens in the Upper GI than

the patient should take a purgative with the testing. Although from

what I have read that it's usually better to use a purgative anyway as

that makes certain bacteria shed so it will show up in stool. Very

important to use stool that is not completely water as it is hard for

the labs to check that. That is why I could not redo the test yesterday.

Anyway,

Just a suggestion.

Jodi

SCD 9 months

Crohn's/Colitis

If you have done this testing after starting SCD did you find it

valuable at all?

July 18, 2008

2. If all else is going incredibly well, do I just wait for the poops to become consistently perfect or do I keep restarting intro and testing early foods over again? In other words, in Celiac Disease, can poops be inconsistent (good one day, bad another) in the longer term even if one is ingesting the exact same things every day? ie. Is this something that has to be waited out or something that has to be figured out?I would be grateful to hear from those with UC or Crohn's also, because the patterns you have seen in yourselves will probably be quite relevant.Well I have UC, been on 13.5 months and am not at all consistent currently, though I've hadperiods of greater consistency. I don't eat the same thing every day though. Others symptomskeep alleviating, so I figure, in time, that will, too. I'd say move on and see how he does onmore advanced items. If he does the same as now that's one thing, but if he gets worsethen put him back. Has his BM been cultured - the Geneva Diagnostics test? Things like c. dif. can't be treatedby diet alone - the little buggers have claws which they hook into the mucosal lining of theintestine tract. That needs antibiotics. Which, in fact, I need to do for myself as well. But that requires me getting a new doc - my current doc is notreally interested in the kind of data the Geneva Diagnostics panels has - and I've been lazy about it. Mara

July 18, 2008

Mara,

Can I still have issues from C. Diff I had a few years ago? Besides

other pathogens but could it still be like an underlying issue??

Jodi

SCD 9 months

Crohn's/Colitis

> Has his BM been cultured - the Geneva Diagnostics test? Things like

> c. dif. can't be treated

> by diet alone - the little buggers have claws which they hook into the

> mucosal lining of the

> intestine tract. That needs antibiotics.