Re: Did your BPD parent...

[Guest guest]

I remember once, when I was shopping with mom, she held up a super

age-inappropriate shirt for me to try on. I think it was a pink ruffly shirt

with puff-paint kittens on it, and I was 16 or so. I said something like, " You

must be kidding! " , and then my mother got the most tragic look on her face, and

started to cry.

I ended up having to buy that damn shirt and having to wear it to keep her from

having a meltdown. This situation is so ridiculous that it's almost funny now.

> > >...ever spend time with you?

> > >

> > >I think beyond all else in this entire world, all I ever wanted

> > >was for my

> > >mother to spend time with me and make me feel special and for

> > >once, make a

> > >moment about me and not about herself. I wanted her to take my

> > >shopping,

> > >go out to eat, go to a movie, have a girls day out like I do

> > >with my own

> > >daughter. And the older I got, the more I started seeking this

> > >from outside

> > >people. I became close with a friend's mother and then that

> > >friend and I

> > >had a falling out, which meant I could no longer be friends

> > >with her mother.

> > >It was devastating for me.

> > >

> > >I feel like I kind of do this " I need a mommy " thing with

> > >my therapist. I

> > >hate her daughter, lol. Her daughter doesn't even know I

> > >exist, but I

> > >have seen her pictures in my therapist's office and I

> > >can't help but feel that

> > >jealously rise up in me...like why couldn't she have been

> > >MY mother and

> > >then I wouldn't be struggling with all of these issues.....

> > >

> > >One of the ways I get some healing is being close with my own

> > >daughter.

> > >She's only 8 now, but I can't wait for the day she is older and

> > >we become best

> > > friends. I so much want to be close with her and having a

> > > loving, good

> > >relationship. I mean, I want the same with my two boys too.

> > >

> > >My daughter and I did a little online " interview your child "

> > >thing the

> > >other day and one of the questions was " what do you enjoy doing

> > >with your

> > >mom? " My daughter said she liked when I paint fingernails and

> > >she gets to help

> > >with laundry.

> > >

> > >Such simple things that are special to her. Things I never had

> > >with my

> > >mother.

> >

> > --

> > Katrina

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My mother didn't do anything for my birthday or graduation.

Oh, wait. She made me a coconut cake one year after I whined about hating

coconut cake. Then she told me I was an ungrateful brat because I wouldn't

eat it.

I was trying to remember some of the other inappropriate things she did.

For instance, I lived there way too long as a young adult. When I was about

20, I was working full-time and going to school part-time at night. I had

health insurance. I was struggling with an eating disorder (which she claimed

I did for attention) and was seeing a psychologist. She kept telling me

she was going to have a judge order my records released to her so she can see

what I was saying about her. She was a paralegal, so I wasn't sure if it

was true. My doctor assured me she was a liar.

I felt so incredibly controlled by her. I had imapporpriate curfews for my

age and I was given limited freedom. I remember once showing her a water

bed in a magazine I was saving for. I don't think it was 2 days later I

came home from work and she had gone through my room and had a brand new

bedroom suit delivered that was nothing compared to what I wanted. She told me

a

water bed would " ruin her floors. " Once again, I was the ungrateful brat

for not liking it and she got on the phone and LAUGHED about it and told

other relatives how she spent all of this money on me and I didn't want it

and what a spoiled brat I was.

(

She'd do things like take my aunt into her bedroom and shut the door to

talk to her about all of the horrid things I was doing. She once told my

aunt that I was " worse than a kid on drugs " because I had joined an Assembly of

God church and was trying to live a Christian life.

In a message dated 5/10/2009 11:17:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

astridz00@... writes:

I always wanted to spend less time with my mother, because she was too

needy and inappropriate with me. But, my sister had the experience of having

my mother ignore her. (My mother is very different with different people.) It

was almost as if my sister did not exist to my mother. My mother even

forgot my sister's birthday, graduation, etc.

I read in that Understanding the Borderline Mother book that in addition

to the " all-good " and " all-bad " children, there is a category called " lost "

children, where the BPD parent ignores the child and almost forgets that

he/she exists. The lost child is irrelevant to the BPD parent.

My cousin's mother is a BPD queen type, and he's also a " lost " child, and

my aunt left him with relatives so she could gamble and chase men, and

suchlike.

I think that every role you play with a BPD mother sucks in its own

special way. I have wondered whether my sister's situation was better or worse

than mine, and I think they both were pretty awful.

--- In _WTOAdultChildren1@WTOAdultChilWTO_

(mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ) , Hummingbird1298@, Humm

>

> ...ever spend time with you?

>

> I think beyond all else in this entire world, all I ever wanted was for

my

> mother to spend time with me and make me feel special and for once, make

a

> moment about me and not about herself. I wanted her to take my shopping,

> go out to eat, go to a movie, have a girls day out like I do with my own

> daughter. And the older I got, the more I started seeking this from

outside

> people. I became close with a friend's mother and then that friend and I

> had a falling out, which meant I could no longer be friends with her

mother.

> It was devastating for me.

>

> I feel like I kind of do this " I need a mommy " thing with my therapist.

I

> hate her daughter, lol. Her daughter doesn't even know I exist, but I

> have seen her pictures in my therapist's office and I can't help but

feel that

> jealously rise up in me...like why couldn't she have been MY mother and

> then I wouldn't be struggling with all of these issues.....

>

> One of the ways I get some healing is being close with my own daughter.

> She's only 8 now, but I can't wait for the day she is older and we

become best

> friends. I so much want to be close with her and having a loving, good

> relationship. I mean, I want the same with my two boys too.

>

> My daughter and I did a little online " interview your child " thing the

> other day and one of the questions was " what do you enjoy doing with

your

> mom? " My daughter said she liked when I paint fingernails and she gets

to help

> with laundry.

>

> Such simple things that are special to her. Things I never had with my

> mother.

>

>

> ************ ************<WBR>**The Average US Credit Score is 692. See

You

> Steps!

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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Guest guest]

I third this experience of being painted 'white' as an only child with 80%

waif/hermit nada...

All available time was spent with me, confiding inappropriate information

regarding sexual relationships, crying and telling me how she would like to die

(and what I should do with her after she dies).

Lynette, I also really understand not knowing how to be a kid. Then and now, the

only thing nada says about me is " you're so wise " . Maybe because I was taught to

give advice as soon as I could speak?

Regarding our escape from being monsters... I choose to think of myself as

lucky, because as awful and in some ways powerful as it seems being nada, I also

know she is trapped in her own personal hell, and isn't strong enough to get

out... we're lucky because we're strong enough. Obviously it's a whole lot more

than luck - it's guts and hard work and determination and intelligence and self

reflection and a bunch of other things- but I also feel lucky. Somehow, I am ok.

> > >

> > > ...ever spend time with you?

> > >

> > > I think beyond all else in this entire world, all I ever wanted was for my

> > > mother to spend time with me and make me feel special and for once, make a

> > > moment about me and not about herself. I wanted her to take my shopping,

> > > go out to eat, go to a movie, have a girls day out like I do with my own

> > > daughter. And the older I got, the more I started seeking this from

outside

> > > people. I became close with a friend's mother and then that friend and I

> > > had a falling out, which meant I could no longer be friends with her

mother.

> > > It was devastating for me.

> > >

> > > I feel like I kind of do this " I need a mommy " thing with my therapist.

I

> > > hate her daughter, lol. Her daughter doesn't even know I exist, but I

> > > have seen her pictures in my therapist's office and I can't help but feel

that

> > > jealously rise up in me...like why couldn't she have been MY mother and

> > > then I wouldn't be struggling with all of these issues.....

> > >

> > > One of the ways I get some healing is being close with my own daughter.

> > > She's only 8 now, but I can't wait for the day she is older and we become

best

> > > friends. I so much want to be close with her and having a loving, good

> > > relationship. I mean, I want the same with my two boys too.

> > >

> > > My daughter and I did a little online " interview your child " thing the

> > > other day and one of the questions was " what do you enjoy doing with your

> > > mom? " My daughter said she liked when I paint fingernails and she gets to

help

> > > with laundry.

> > >

> > > Such simple things that are special to her. Things I never had with my

> > > mother.

> > >

> > >

> > > **************The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy

> > > Steps!

> > >

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www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072 & hmpgID=62 & bcd=M

> > > ay51009AvgfooterNO62)

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Lynette - The difference is that you are not crazy and Nada is. However, as has

been said here before, BPD (or any other impairment) may be a reason, but it's

not an excuse. Anybody who can function well enough to appear " normal " to the

outside world should be able to be held accountable for the kind of neglect you

and (and others here) went through. I am so sorry that the children you

were had to go through so much. It wasn't right. The fact that you're NOT

using it as an excuse to act like a monster speaks volumes about your resiliency

and character. - - P.S. Lynette, I hope you're resting well and feeling

better.

> > >

> > > ...ever spend time with you?

> > >

> > > I think beyond all else in this entire world, all I ever wanted was for my

> > > mother to spend time with me and make me feel special and for once, make a

> > > moment about me and not about herself. I wanted her to take my shopping,

> > > go out to eat, go to a movie, have a girls day out like I do with my own

> > > daughter. And the older I got, the more I started seeking this from

outside

> > > people. I became close with a friend's mother and then that friend and I

> > > had a falling out, which meant I could no longer be friends with her

mother.

> > > It was devastating for me.

> > >

> > > I feel like I kind of do this " I need a mommy " thing with my therapist.

I

> > > hate her daughter, lol. Her daughter doesn't even know I exist, but I

> > > have seen her pictures in my therapist's office and I can't help but feel

that

> > > jealously rise up in me...like why couldn't she have been MY mother and

> > > then I wouldn't be struggling with all of these issues.....

> > >

> > > One of the ways I get some healing is being close with my own daughter.

> > > She's only 8 now, but I can't wait for the day she is older and we become

best

> > > friends. I so much want to be close with her and having a loving, good

> > > relationship. I mean, I want the same with my two boys too.

> > >

> > > My daughter and I did a little online " interview your child " thing the

> > > other day and one of the questions was " what do you enjoy doing with your

> > > mom? " My daughter said she liked when I paint fingernails and she gets to

help

> > > with laundry.

> > >

> > > Such simple things that are special to her. Things I never had with my

> > > mother.

> > >

> > >

> > > **************The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy

> > > Steps!

> > >

(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222376999x1201454299/aol?redir=http://\

www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072 & hmpgID=62 & bcd=M

> > > ay51009AvgfooterNO62)

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Lynette - The difference is that you are not crazy and Nada is. However, as has

been said here before, BPD (or any other impairment) may be a reason, but it's

not an excuse. Anybody who can function well enough to appear " normal " to the

outside world should be able to be held accountable for the kind of neglect you

and (and others here) went through. I am so sorry that the children you

were had to go through so much. It wasn't right. The fact that you're NOT

using it as an excuse to act like a monster speaks volumes about your resiliency

and character. - - P.S. Lynette, I hope you're resting well and feeling

better.

> > >

> > > ...ever spend time with you?

> > >

> > > I think beyond all else in this entire world, all I ever wanted was for my

> > > mother to spend time with me and make me feel special and for once, make a

> > > moment about me and not about herself. I wanted her to take my shopping,

> > > go out to eat, go to a movie, have a girls day out like I do with my own

> > > daughter. And the older I got, the more I started seeking this from

outside

> > > people. I became close with a friend's mother and then that friend and I

> > > had a falling out, which meant I could no longer be friends with her

mother.

> > > It was devastating for me.

> > >

> > > I feel like I kind of do this " I need a mommy " thing with my therapist.

I

> > > hate her daughter, lol. Her daughter doesn't even know I exist, but I

> > > have seen her pictures in my therapist's office and I can't help but feel

that

> > > jealously rise up in me...like why couldn't she have been MY mother and

> > > then I wouldn't be struggling with all of these issues.....

> > >

> > > One of the ways I get some healing is being close with my own daughter.

> > > She's only 8 now, but I can't wait for the day she is older and we become

best

> > > friends. I so much want to be close with her and having a loving, good

> > > relationship. I mean, I want the same with my two boys too.

> > >

> > > My daughter and I did a little online " interview your child " thing the

> > > other day and one of the questions was " what do you enjoy doing with your

> > > mom? " My daughter said she liked when I paint fingernails and she gets to

help

> > > with laundry.

> > >

> > > Such simple things that are special to her. Things I never had with my

> > > mother.

> > >

> > >

> > > **************The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy

> > > Steps!

> > >

(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222376999x1201454299/aol?redir=http://\

www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072 & hmpgID=62 & bcd=M

> > > ay51009AvgfooterNO62)

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I'm not jealous, I guess I gave up on that a long time ago..I just think

they're weird !!! LOL Who in their right mind would WANT to hang out with

their mother ???

Jackie

Yes, I agree with you. I have friends who have normal mothers (granted

we're in our 30's) and consider their mothers their best friends. It's hard

for

me to accept it if I am honest. I really feel so much jealousy there.

I'd never tell them that, but it's hard for me sometimes. I just have

to look the other way when I see mothers and daughters off together.

[Guest guest]

I agree..myself, I think who'd WANT to hang out with their mother ?? :-)

Jackie

Well, it's because we have nothing functional to compare it to. I think

it's normal and healthy when the relationship is normal and healthy.

[Guest guest]

abuse comes in many forms...not just physical

Jackie

I had a very hard time saying my mother abused me. There are no marks and

the first time my therapist said she was abusive, I stuck up for my mother

and told my therapist she was wrong.

I was sexually abused by an uncle too. And sometimes I think the emotional

abuse from my mother was worse. Although, comparing it seems a little

silly. I think about my mother's actions a lot more than I think about my

uncle's and her actions seem to be what have affected my life so much.

[Guest guest]

oh, Sara Jo, with the exception of eating out ( when we went shopping, she'd

never spring to feed us too) your story is just like mine..when I got older,

I quit going with her...it would be a huge fight, but I'd refuse to go, and

she'd stop off without me...

Jackie

Katrina,

This is how my experiences were spending time with my nada. She took us

shopping and out to eat, etc. However, shopping was THE WORST! She would

make me try on all these clothes, and most of the time i didn't like them

because they weren't comfy, or they didn't fit right. Mainly they were

clothes that she would have liked. And when I told her I didn't like them

and didn't want them she would get angry at me. It would make me miserable.

It was an ordeal. In fact, she would talk to people all the time about how

bad I am to take shopping, that I got so miserable. When I got older and was

better at controlling my emotions, she would say things like " you are much

better than you used to be, I used to HATE taking you shopping, you were so

miserable " . The facts were that I was just as miserable as ever, and that it

was her fault. She never stopped to think that she might be the reason for

my misery. I actually enjoy shopping for myself these days, but I prefer to

do it alone.

Also, when we went to the grocery store, she would tell me to find some

items on the shelf, and when I came back to find her and put the items in

the cart, she would be gone. I would spend almost an hour sometimes trying

to find her in the huge store. I hated it. After a while, I told her that I

didn't want to help her get things because i hated so much to try to find

her again. I can't help but to think now that she enjoyed knowing that I

would be searching desperately for her. Maybe it boosted her ego.

Spending time with nada was usually a nightmare, but when things ended badly

she would always blame it on us kids. She would say things like " i can't

even enjoy a nice time out with my daughters because you guys don't know how

to act!!! " . I know now it wasn't our fault.

~Sara Jo

[Guest guest]

Dear Climberkayak, I could have signed my name to your post. I am an only-child

with a needy nada. She used me as an extension of herself-literally living her

unmet needs through me. She picked my clothes, foods, friends, toys and

emotions. A few years ago, she told me that she thought when she had moved from

our hometown to my city that we would go back to being " close " like we were when

I was in high school. I was blown away-I could barely restrain myself enough not

to blurt out " .....and do you think I had a choice in us being " close " ???? I

NEVER would have chosen that closeness!!! When my dad passed away in 2002 she

converted her codependency to me. I am married and live about 30 minutes away.

She calls me with every reason in the world for me to drop what I am doing and

run over to assist her. My husband (a very patient man) is fed up with her

manipulation. I have oftenexpressed that if it wern't for her being my mother, I

would not even be friends with her. I guess you would say " the love is gone " . I

go through the otions, since she is elderly.

> > > >

> > > > ...ever spend time with you?

> > > >

> > > > I think beyond all else in this entire world, all I ever wanted was for

my

> > > > mother to spend time with me and make me feel special and for once, make

a

> > > > moment about me and not about herself. I wanted her to take my

shopping,

> > > > go out to eat, go to a movie, have a girls day out like I do with my own

> > > > daughter. And the older I got, the more I started seeking this from

outside

> > > > people. I became close with a friend's mother and then that friend and

I

> > > > had a falling out, which meant I could no longer be friends with her

mother.

> > > > It was devastating for me.

> > > >

> > > > I feel like I kind of do this " I need a mommy " thing with my therapist.

I

> > > > hate her daughter, lol. Her daughter doesn't even know I exist, but I

> > > > have seen her pictures in my therapist's office and I can't help but

feel that

> > > > jealously rise up in me...like why couldn't she have been MY mother and

> > > > then I wouldn't be struggling with all of these issues.....

> > > >

> > > > One of the ways I get some healing is being close with my own daughter.

> > > > She's only 8 now, but I can't wait for the day she is older and we

become best

> > > > friends. I so much want to be close with her and having a loving, good

> > > > relationship. I mean, I want the same with my two boys too.

> > > >

> > > > My daughter and I did a little online " interview your child " thing the

> > > > other day and one of the questions was " what do you enjoy doing with

your

> > > > mom? " My daughter said she liked when I paint fingernails and she gets

to help

> > > > with laundry.

> > > >

> > > > Such simple things that are special to her. Things I never had with my

> > > > mother.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > **************The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2

Easy

> > > > Steps!

> > > >

(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222376999x1201454299/aol?redir=http://\

www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072 & hmpgID=62 & bcd=M

> > > > ay51009AvgfooterNO62)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

KaraJo and Astrid - God, yes. Me too. I know it doesn't equate to the horrific

abuse others have described, but shopping with Nada was a total nightmare. I

got to see what was available on the racks as I walked into the department

store's clothing section on the way to the fitting rooms. At that point, Nada

would have collected a huge armload of outfits she selected (and this made the

salesladies' eyes light up) - she would corral me in the fitting room, bring

several outfits at a time, and I had to try them all on and " model " them for

her. These clothes were very rarely anything that I would have liked to wear,

and they were usually too tight. Rather than just take my word that something

didn't fit, she insisted that I come to the door of the fitting room area and

show her that the buttons didn't meet, etc. She would stand there at the

entrance of the fitting rooms, giving orders to the saleslady and going into

great detail about how ungainly and fat I was, and how she couldn't understand

why I gave her such a hard time about shopping for clothes. The day I started

wearing a school uniform was one of the happiest days of my life, because it

meant no more shopping. -

> > > >...ever spend time with you?

> > > >

> > > >I think beyond all else in this entire world, all I ever wanted

> > > >was for my

> > > >mother to spend time with me and make me feel special and for

> > > >once, make a

> > > >moment about me and not about herself. I wanted her to take my

> > > >shopping,

> > > >go out to eat, go to a movie, have a girls day out like I do

> > > >with my own

> > > >daughter. And the older I got, the more I started seeking this

> > > >from outside

> > > >people. I became close with a friend's mother and then that

> > > >friend and I

> > > >had a falling out, which meant I could no longer be friends

> > > >with her mother.

> > > >It was devastating for me.

> > > >

> > > >I feel like I kind of do this " I need a mommy " thing with

> > > >my therapist. I

> > > >hate her daughter, lol. Her daughter doesn't even know I

> > > >exist, but I

> > > >have seen her pictures in my therapist's office and I

> > > >can't help but feel that

> > > >jealously rise up in me...like why couldn't she have been

> > > >MY mother and

> > > >then I wouldn't be struggling with all of these issues.....

> > > >

> > > >One of the ways I get some healing is being close with my own

> > > >daughter.

> > > >She's only 8 now, but I can't wait for the day she is older and

> > > >we become best

> > > > friends. I so much want to be close with her and having a

> > > > loving, good

> > > >relationship. I mean, I want the same with my two boys too.

> > > >

> > > >My daughter and I did a little online " interview your child "

> > > >thing the

> > > >other day and one of the questions was " what do you enjoy doing

> > > >with your

> > > >mom? " My daughter said she liked when I paint fingernails and

> > > >she gets to help

> > > >with laundry.

> > > >

> > > >Such simple things that are special to her. Things I never had

> > > >with my

> > > >mother.

> > >

> > > --

> > > Katrina

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well said, Noble. I like that alot! I'm going to save it and encourage my own

bpd daughter with that. She's worked so hard, and the awful things my dad

suffered through (and did) don't have to be repeated in her life. I also see

things in my own life that reflect the mental imbalance of the people who raised

me, and I LOVE being able to look at them more clearly and say, " That's not

right. I know it now. I don't have to be that way; I can choose to change. " Wow

- thanks so much for your words.

Sincerely,

> Regarding our escape from being monsters... I choose to think of myself as

lucky, because as awful and in some ways powerful as it seems being nada, I also

know she is trapped in her own personal hell, and isn't strong enough to get

out... we're lucky because we're strong enough. Obviously it's a whole lot more

than luck - it's guts and hard work and determination and intelligence and self

reflection and a bunch of other things- but I also feel lucky. Somehow, I am ok.

[Guest guest]

Oh, - what an awful way to be constantly set up. Of course you felt

controlled - you were. And I don't say that to blame you; how could you have

known any different? You couldn't. I'm glad you do now, but sorry that you have

those terrible memories to grapple with. Maybe she would have been happy if

you'd been on drugs instead of in church?!?!? And as I bet you've learned,

eating disorders are about control and trying desperately to have SOME control

SOMEWHERE ... I bet the roots of that lead directly back to nada. Keep up the

good fight.

Sincerely,

[Guest guest]

Well-put, . I find it so ghastly that my nada *chose* to mistreat my

Sister and me in private and *chose* to act normal and even be charming in

public. (We had the queen/witch nada as opposed to the hermit/waif nada.) I

think she did it because she could get away with it. Children will *not* tell on

their mother/primary caregiver, so its *safe* to abuse your own child. That

makes a witch/queen nada a classic bully/child predator.

Since I only had abnormal experiences to compare life around me to, when I was

growing up I thought that everyone's mom was only nice when visitors were

around, and that when I left my little friends would be screamed at and beaten

like I was.

I didn't trust adults at all, I thought adults either only pretended to be kind

and sweet, or, that adults were remote and disinterested in kids. Sister and I

never spent long periods of time with other families, except perhaps a long

weekend at a friend's home, very rarely (I only remember two such weekends.) On

three or four occasions I spent a whole week with a great-aunt during the

summer, but I could never relax and trust her. I was a " Stepford " child, very

obedient and very wary.

On another note: at YOuTube I ran across some educational videos of actual

schizophrenic patients, the purpose is to demonstrate the disconnected, rambling

and paranoid thought processes of the schizophrenic for student psychologists

(I'm guessing.)

I found watching these vids very disconcerting; something about the intense

emotions and sincerity of the clearly insane individuals was triggering strange

fear-related emotions in me. They made me feel very anxious. Perhaps they

seemed too close to what my nada sounded like when she was raging: irrational.

My nada has demonstrated transient breaks with reality on a few occasions that I

experienced as an adult, but perhaps she broke with reality and became

irrational during rages as well, when we were kids?

I'm beginning to think so. Whether or not that happened, my nada should not

have been allowed to raise us; she inflicted way too much damage, life-altering

damage, on Sister and me.

-Annie

> > > >

> > > > ...ever spend time with you?

> > > >

> > > > I think beyond all else in this entire world, all I ever wanted was for

my

> > > > mother to spend time with me and make me feel special and for once, make

a

> > > > moment about me and not about herself. I wanted her to take my

shopping,

> > > > go out to eat, go to a movie, have a girls day out like I do with my own

> > > > daughter. And the older I got, the more I started seeking this from

outside

> > > > people. I became close with a friend's mother and then that friend and

I

> > > > had a falling out, which meant I could no longer be friends with her

mother.

> > > > It was devastating for me.

> > > >

> > > > I feel like I kind of do this " I need a mommy " thing with my therapist.

I

> > > > hate her daughter, lol. Her daughter doesn't even know I exist, but I

> > > > have seen her pictures in my therapist's office and I can't help but

feel that

> > > > jealously rise up in me...like why couldn't she have been MY mother and

> > > > then I wouldn't be struggling with all of these issues.....

> > > >

> > > > One of the ways I get some healing is being close with my own daughter.

> > > > She's only 8 now, but I can't wait for the day she is older and we

become best

> > > > friends. I so much want to be close with her and having a loving, good

> > > > relationship. I mean, I want the same with my two boys too.

> > > >

> > > > My daughter and I did a little online " interview your child " thing the

> > > > other day and one of the questions was " what do you enjoy doing with

your

> > > > mom? " My daughter said she liked when I paint fingernails and she gets

to help

> > > > with laundry.

> > > >

> > > > Such simple things that are special to her. Things I never had with my

> > > > mother.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > **************The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2

Easy

> > > > Steps!

> > > >

(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222376999x1201454299/aol?redir=http://\

www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072 & hmpgID=62 & bcd=M

> > > > ay51009AvgfooterNO62)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Annie,

I guess I was luckier than most here...for some reason my nada let me spend

many summers in another state with my fadas brother and his wife...they

raised morgan horses and German Shepherd dogs...as well as cows, ducks,

chickens...and I learned not all adults were like nada. My fada used to be

a kind stable human, but I guess living with The Evil One for 60+ years has

taken it's toll, and he has started attacking me as well.. My nada chose to

beat us, chose to belittle us and emotionally abuse and black mail us..so

now, I choose not to have anything to do with them !

Jackie

Well-put, . I find it so ghastly that my nada *chose* to mistreat my

Sister and me in private and *chose* to act normal and even be charming in

public. (We had the queen/witch nada as opposed to the hermit/waif nada.) I

think she did it because she could get away with it. Children will *not*

tell on their mother/primary caregiver, so its *safe* to abuse your own

child. That makes a witch/queen nada a classic bully/child predator.

Since I only had abnormal experiences to compare life around me to, when I

was growing up I thought that everyone's mom was only nice when visitors

were around, and that when I left my little friends would be screamed at and

beaten like I was.

I didn't trust adults at all, I thought adults either only pretended to be

kind and sweet, or, that adults were remote and disinterested in kids.

Sister and I never spent long periods of time with other families, except

perhaps a long weekend at a friend's home, very rarely (I only remember two

such weekends.) On three or four occasions I spent a whole week with a

great-aunt during the summer, but I could never relax and trust her. I was a

" Stepford " child, very obedient and very wary.

On another note: at YOuTube I ran across some educational videos of actual

schizophrenic patients, the purpose is to demonstrate the disconnected,

rambling and paranoid thought processes of the schizophrenic for student

psychologists (I'm guessing.)

I found watching these vids very disconcerting; something about the intense

emotions and sincerity of the clearly insane individuals was triggering

strange fear-related emotions in me. They made me feel very anxious.

Perhaps they seemed too close to what my nada sounded like when she was

raging: irrational. My nada has demonstrated transient breaks with reality

on a few occasions that I experienced as an adult, but perhaps she broke

with reality and became irrational during rages as well, when we were kids?

I'm beginning to think so. Whether or not that happened, my nada should not

have been allowed to raise us; she inflicted way too much damage,

life-altering damage, on Sister and me.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

you may be right ! I always sent my aunt a mother day card ( nada HATED

that !!!) and when we visited the parents ( they moved back to their home

area, where my aunt and uncle live) I'd spend a day with my aunt and uncle

( nada HATED that and gave me a LOT of grief over it) but my aunt taught me

how to shave and use deodorant, my aunt taught me about my monthly

curse..and I saw how " normal " adults interacted and how normal adults

treated kids ( my other aunts and uncles and cousins all lived in that area

too) so I knew nada was wrong, and not normal..

Jackie

Sometimes I think for those who had bpd mothers, if they had a replacement

of some kind -- a grandparent, an aunt, a functional father, they faired

way better. I think I faired worse because I was so alone. I told my

therapist this morning that I want her to teach me how to be a mother to

myself instead of always on the search for a mother-figure in my life.

[Guest guest]

Shopping with nada...ahhhhhh - lots of fun. My memories of shopping with nada

are that I pick out what I want to try on and am in and out of the fitting room

in less than 15 minutes. Nada wanders through the store " help me pick out

something " . When I do. " oh, that's not my style " or she will scrutinize it 20

different ways before she might agree to try it on. Once she makes it to the

fitting room. There is lots of muttering and then the door flies open and she

emerges to admire herself in the mirror. Turn left, turn right, turn backward,

look at butt, suck in stomach, press stomach, tug on clothing. " how does this

look?.. " Then back in, close the door, more sputtering, door flies open again,

out steps the queen.. " how does this look?.. " begins to admire self in mirror

from 87 different angles again. " I'm not sure if I like this...do you like

this?...maybe I need a smaller size?..I'm not sure if this fits..does this

fit?...maybe I need a bigger size..Does this make me look too matronly?...Do you

like this better than the other?....let me try on the other one again..Do you

think they have it in blue?...Don't go anywhere. I'll be right back. " Then back

in, close the door, and it continues on and on and on for at least 40 minutes.

Inevitabely after about the fourth or fifth outfit, I'm sent to find different

sizes and colors. Then she has to try on all of those. When she asks if it fits

or what I think, god help me if I don't respond to her or she'll stand there

looking like a crazed animal ready to pounce on me. It usually starts out with

snide comments, then it switches to and how she doesn't see me that much and I'm

all she has left..blah, blah, blah.. She'll then sniffle like a child about how

she needs help and I have such good taste and she doesn't want to inconvenience

me, but if I could be patient and wait just a little longer because she won't be

that much longer. Finally, when she almost decides on something she says " Do you

think I should get this?...What do you think? "

The woman is insufferable!!

Abby

> > >...ever spend time with you?

> > >

> > >I think beyond all else in this entire world, all I ever wanted

> > >was for my

> > >mother to spend time with me and make me feel special and for

> > >once, make a

> > >moment about me and not about herself. I wanted her to take my

> > >shopping,

> > >go out to eat, go to a movie, have a girls day out like I do

> > >with my own

> > >daughter. And the older I got, the more I started seeking this

> > >from outside

> > >people. I became close with a friend's mother and then that

> > >friend and I

> > >had a falling out, which meant I could no longer be friends

> > >with her mother.

> > >It was devastating for me.

> > >

> > >I feel like I kind of do this " I need a mommy " thing with

> > >my therapist. I

> > >hate her daughter, lol. Her daughter doesn't even know I

> > >exist, but I

> > >have seen her pictures in my therapist's office and I

> > >can't help but feel that

> > >jealously rise up in me...like why couldn't she have been

> > >MY mother and

> > >then I wouldn't be struggling with all of these issues.....

> > >

> > >One of the ways I get some healing is being close with my own

> > >daughter.

> > >She's only 8 now, but I can't wait for the day she is older and

> > >we become best

> > > friends. I so much want to be close with her and having a

> > > loving, good

> > >relationship. I mean, I want the same with my two boys too.

> > >

> > >My daughter and I did a little online " interview your child "

> > >thing the

> > >other day and one of the questions was " what do you enjoy doing

> > >with your

> > >mom? " My daughter said she liked when I paint fingernails and

> > >she gets to help

> > >with laundry.

> > >

> > >Such simple things that are special to her. Things I never had

> > >with my

> > >mother.

> >

> > --

> > Katrina

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi EggShellE, sorry you are dealing with the " closeness " as well. 30 minutes

away is awfully close isn't it? I still live many states away but as my nada's

health worsens I'm not sure if I'll be able to do everything long distance or

not. At times this plunges me into depression. Don't you wish someone would

have warned you when you were young in college say about the danger of the needy

nada? I thought growing up, getting a job, moving away and doing annual visits

was freedom. I didn't understand I was still yoked in and that when old age hit

there would be a hovering on a level I couldn't imagine. I guess we just have

to keep working on it...off to therapy for me.

> > > > >

> > > > > ...ever spend time with you?

> > > > >

> > > > > I think beyond all else in this entire world, all I ever wanted was

for my

> > > > > mother to spend time with me and make me feel special and for once,

make a

> > > > > moment about me and not about herself. I wanted her to take my

shopping,

> > > > > go out to eat, go to a movie, have a girls day out like I do with my

own

> > > > > daughter. And the older I got, the more I started seeking this from

outside

> > > > > people. I became close with a friend's mother and then that friend

and I

> > > > > had a falling out, which meant I could no longer be friends with her

mother.

> > > > > It was devastating for me.

> > > > >

> > > > > I feel like I kind of do this " I need a mommy " thing with my

therapist. I

> > > > > hate her daughter, lol. Her daughter doesn't even know I exist, but

I

> > > > > have seen her pictures in my therapist's office and I can't help but

feel that

> > > > > jealously rise up in me...like why couldn't she have been MY mother

and

> > > > > then I wouldn't be struggling with all of these issues.....

> > > > >

> > > > > One of the ways I get some healing is being close with my own

daughter.

> > > > > She's only 8 now, but I can't wait for the day she is older and we

become best

> > > > > friends. I so much want to be close with her and having a loving,

good

> > > > > relationship. I mean, I want the same with my two boys too.

> > > > >

> > > > > My daughter and I did a little online " interview your child " thing the

> > > > > other day and one of the questions was " what do you enjoy doing with

your

> > > > > mom? " My daughter said she liked when I paint fingernails and she

gets to help

> > > > > with laundry.

> > > > >

> > > > > Such simple things that are special to her. Things I never had with

my

> > > > > mother.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > **************The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2

Easy

> > > > > Steps!

> > > > >

(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222376999x1201454299/aol?redir=http://\

www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072 & hmpgID=62 & bcd=M

> > > > > ay51009AvgfooterNO62)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Noble, I'm amazed at the similarities - my nada also went on about how I was " so

wise " . Yes, I was giving advice from early on, helping her calm down when she

was distressed, all things I did to help her in the hopes that she could then be

of help to me. Didn't work out that well for my development...but it did help

to keep her stable most of the time.

Lynnette, sorry you were in the adult-kid category too. I remember imagining

that I was more mature, even superior to other kids - really just trying to feel

okay about being so different. Now I know what the score was and what I missed

out on...yet another truth to make peace with. That's awful about your nada's

reaction to you being threatened with a knife - that kind of thing hurts deep.

Mine also had the " well, you're okay now " type of response to anything I told

her happened to me.

> > > >

> > > > ...ever spend time with you?

> > > >

> > > > I think beyond all else in this entire world, all I ever wanted was for

my

> > > > mother to spend time with me and make me feel special and for once, make

a

> > > > moment about me and not about herself. I wanted her to take my

shopping,

> > > > go out to eat, go to a movie, have a girls day out like I do with my own

> > > > daughter. And the older I got, the more I started seeking this from

outside

> > > > people. I became close with a friend's mother and then that friend and

I

> > > > had a falling out, which meant I could no longer be friends with her

mother.

> > > > It was devastating for me.

> > > >

> > > > I feel like I kind of do this " I need a mommy " thing with my therapist.

I

> > > > hate her daughter, lol. Her daughter doesn't even know I exist, but I

> > > > have seen her pictures in my therapist's office and I can't help but

feel that

> > > > jealously rise up in me...like why couldn't she have been MY mother and

> > > > then I wouldn't be struggling with all of these issues.....

> > > >

> > > > One of the ways I get some healing is being close with my own daughter.

> > > > She's only 8 now, but I can't wait for the day she is older and we

become best

> > > > friends. I so much want to be close with her and having a loving, good

> > > > relationship. I mean, I want the same with my two boys too.

> > > >

> > > > My daughter and I did a little online " interview your child " thing the

> > > > other day and one of the questions was " what do you enjoy doing with

your

> > > > mom? " My daughter said she liked when I paint fingernails and she gets

to help

> > > > with laundry.

> > > >

> > > > Such simple things that are special to her. Things I never had with my

> > > > mother.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > **************The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2

Easy

> > > > Steps!

> > > >

(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222376999x1201454299/aol?redir=http://\

www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072 & hmpgID=62 & bcd=M

> > > > ay51009AvgfooterNO62)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

I am laughing and grining a LOT here. Yes, shopping was the worst. I remember

going into a dressing room and whispering to the saleslday, " make her go away " .

And I know what clothes did not look good on me and yes, I also had to try them

on to " prove " the clothes were awful.

GGGGGGGGrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. I remember in high school I had three sweaters and

two skirts and that is ALL I wore for the entire year. And I was able to buy

those because I was babysitting and saved my money. The clothes that nada

picked out for me were horrible, the styles were not appropriate for me at all.

When I got married at age 16 (to get away from nada, go figure) nada bought me a

hideous dress and I told her I it was for someone much younger (styled for

junior high); nada got mad and asked me just how old I thought I was. Silly

crazy old woman.

I am so grateful for this group, blessings, mg

> > > > >...ever spend time with you?

> > > > >

> > > > >I think beyond all else in this entire world, all I ever wanted

> > > > >was for my

> > > > >mother to spend time with me and make me feel special and for

> > > > >once, make a

> > > > >moment about me and not about herself. I wanted her to take my

> > > > >shopping,

> > > > >go out to eat, go to a movie, have a girls day out like I do

> > > > >with my own

> > > > >daughter. And the older I got, the more I started seeking this

> > > > >from outside

> > > > >people. I became close with a friend's mother and then that

> > > > >friend and I

> > > > >had a falling out, which meant I could no longer be friends

> > > > >with her mother.

> > > > >It was devastating for me.

> > > > >

> > > > >I feel like I kind of do this " I need a mommy " thing with

> > > > >my therapist. I

> > > > >hate her daughter, lol. Her daughter doesn't even know I

> > > > >exist, but I

> > > > >have seen her pictures in my therapist's office and I

> > > > >can't help but feel that

> > > > >jealously rise up in me...like why couldn't she have been

> > > > >MY mother and

> > > > >then I wouldn't be struggling with all of these issues.....

> > > > >

> > > > >One of the ways I get some healing is being close with my own

> > > > >daughter.

> > > > >She's only 8 now, but I can't wait for the day she is older and

> > > > >we become best

> > > > > friends. I so much want to be close with her and having a

> > > > > loving, good

> > > > >relationship. I mean, I want the same with my two boys too.

> > > > >

> > > > >My daughter and I did a little online " interview your child "

> > > > >thing the

> > > > >other day and one of the questions was " what do you enjoy doing

> > > > >with your

> > > > >mom? " My daughter said she liked when I paint fingernails and

> > > > >she gets to help

> > > > >with laundry.

> > > > >

> > > > >Such simple things that are special to her. Things I never had

> > > > >with my

> > > > >mother.

> > > >

> > > > --

> > > > Katrina

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Me three. This nearly describes my nada to a T. Only difference is she'd grab a

bunch of clothes that were 2 or 3 sizes too big and then bitch at me about my

asymmetrical body. I also had to model things in front of her, whether or not I

liked the outfit (usually not). If I didn't like something I was wheedled and

cajoled into trying it on anyway. And I was screamed at with gritted teeth and

scary wide eyes if I tried to object to a particularly noxious outfit. Oh, and I

had the joy of my nada actually stepping into the fitting room *WITH* me. Even

as a teenager. Gaah! When I objected, I was told I shouldn't be so bashful.

>

> KaraJo and Astrid - God, yes. Me too. I know it doesn't equate to the

horrific abuse others have described, but shopping with Nada was a total

nightmare. I got to see what was available on the racks as I walked into the

department store's clothing section on the way to the fitting rooms. At that

point, Nada would have collected a huge armload of outfits she selected (and

this made the salesladies' eyes light up) - she would corral me in the fitting

room, bring several outfits at a time, and I had to try them all on and " model "

them for her. These clothes were very rarely anything that I would have liked

to wear, and they were usually too tight. Rather than just take my word that

something didn't fit, she insisted that I come to the door of the fitting room

area and show her that the buttons didn't meet, etc. She would stand there at

the entrance of the fitting rooms, giving orders to the saleslady and going into

great detail about how ungainly and fat I was, and how she couldn't understand

why I gave her such a hard time about shopping for clothes. The day I started

wearing a school uniform was one of the happiest days of my life, because it

meant no more shopping. -

[Guest guest]

I find it fascinating that *no* sub-category of bpd mother reacts in an

appropriate or sane way when her child is injured or survives a life-threatening

situation!

The queen/witch reacted in anger whenever I got hurt and she expressed

irritation and resentment whenever I became ill and needed nursing.

Apparently the waif/hermit type of nada is dismissive, disinterested or ignores

incidents in which her child is injured, ill or has survived some

life-threatening, trauma!!

( " Oh, you're OK now, no big deal. Get over it. etc. " )

Absolutely amazing. Good Lord, I suppose their lack of empathy shouldn't

surprise me at this point, but it just keeps doing so.

-Annie

.... That's awful about your nada's reaction to you being threatened with a knife

- that kind of thing hurts deep. Mine also had the " well, you're okay now " type

of response to anything I told her happened to me.

>

>

[Guest guest]

oh, yes, me too !! she'd hand me an ( usually UGLY) outfit, and tell me to

come out so she could see..so when I come out, she's gone and I have to go

search for her, in these strange clothes..sometimes in a different

department !! I stopped THAT real quick...I told her if she were NOT right

there at the dressing room door, I would NOT come out...she still wandered

off, so I decided if I liked the outfit or not ( usually not) and did not

show it to her...and had a major fight because she wanted me to try it on

again. I got nadas stubborn streak !!

Jackie

Me three. This nearly describes my nada to a T. Only difference is she'd

grab a bunch of clothes that were 2 or 3 sizes too big and then bitch at me

about my asymmetrical body. I also had to model things in front of her,

whether or not I liked the outfit (usually not). If I didn't like something

I was wheedled and cajoled into trying it on anyway. And I was screamed at

with gritted teeth and scary wide eyes if I tried to object to a

particularly noxious outfit. Oh, and I had the joy of my nada actually

stepping into the fitting room *WITH* me. Even as a teenager. Gaah! When I

objected, I was told I shouldn't be so bashful.

[Guest guest]

My nada used to force me to buy clothes that I didn't want *with my own money.*

I finally had the guts to take a stand when I needed to buy clothes for my

senior year and I told nada that I was going shopping without her. With money

I'd earned. Major, major battle ensued. I had to pick my battles carefully so

they were few and far-between. I had been and continued to be mostly compliant

because any individuality or independence on my part was cause for a battle.

But I do remember feeling so victorious when I went shopping for my school shoes

for the first time *by myself* and I found a matching handbag, and I was so

proud. When I got home, of course nada hated what I'd bought and insulted my

taste. But, I had won, and I got to shop by myself after that.

-Annie

>

> Me three. This nearly describes my nada to a T. Only difference is she'd grab

a bunch of clothes that were 2 or 3 sizes too big and then bitch at me about my

asymmetrical body. I also had to model things in front of her, whether or not I

liked the outfit (usually not). If I didn't like something I was wheedled and

cajoled into trying it on anyway. And I was screamed at with gritted teeth and

scary wide eyes if I tried to object to a particularly noxious outfit. Oh, and I

had the joy of my nada actually stepping into the fitting room *WITH* me. Even

as a teenager. Gaah! When I objected, I was told I shouldn't be so bashful.

[Guest guest]

Shopping with my nada was a nightmare, too. As a kid I always dismissed it as

" we just have different tastes in clothes. " whenever she would give me some

horrible outfit and order me to try it on, and even be in the dressing room with

me (which to a woman is horrifying enough!). As a grew older, I would go

shopping by myself.

One day, I went to work (my nada and I work together, but only until June)

wearing this new skirt I bought. One of my nada's friends came up to me and said

" Oh that is such a pretty skirt!! Let me guess... your mom doesn't like it. " I

explained to her the rage my nada went into over her disapproval of the skirt.

She simply replied " Your mom doesn't like anything that looks good on you! "

That was a lightbulb moment for me.

AJ

>

> oh, yes, me too !! she'd hand me an ( usually UGLY) outfit, and tell me to

> come out so she could see..so when I come out, she's gone and I have to go

> search for her, in these strange clothes..sometimes in a different

> department !! I stopped THAT real quick...I told her if she were NOT right

> there at the dressing room door, I would NOT come out...she still wandered

> off, so I decided if I liked the outfit or not ( usually not) and did not

> show it to her...and had a major fight because she wanted me to try it on

> again. I got nadas stubborn streak !!

>

>

> Jackie

>

> Me three. This nearly describes my nada to a T. Only difference is she'd

> grab a bunch of clothes that were 2 or 3 sizes too big and then bitch at me

> about my asymmetrical body. I also had to model things in front of her,

> whether or not I liked the outfit (usually not). If I didn't like something

> I was wheedled and cajoled into trying it on anyway. And I was screamed at

> with gritted teeth and scary wide eyes if I tried to object to a

> particularly noxious outfit. Oh, and I had the joy of my nada actually

> stepping into the fitting room *WITH* me. Even as a teenager. Gaah! When I

> objected, I was told I shouldn't be so bashful.

>