Re: Did your BPD parent...

[Guest guest]

yes, that's how my nada was...of course NOW she doesn't care at all...nada

would yell at me if I got hurt because it was always MY fault, I wasn't

careful...she'd be very irritated if I got sick...how dare I inconvenience

her ??

Jackie

I find it fascinating that *no* sub-category of bpd mother reacts in an

appropriate or sane way when her child is injured or survives a

life-threatening situation!

The queen/witch reacted in anger whenever I got hurt and she expressed

irritation and resentment whenever I became ill and needed nursing.

[Guest guest]

my nada tried to stand in the dressing room with me when I changed too, but

as I got older ( like 4-5th grads) I refused to get undressed...she'd yell,

and I'd yell NO back at her..so as not to create a scene, she'd leave..but

of COURSE she would hate anything that looked good on you !! it would take

attention away from HER. I have big breasts, and nada was always having me

try things on that were too small there, so they'd get squished down....

Jackie

Shopping with my nada was a nightmare, too. As a kid I always dismissed it

as " we just have different tastes in clothes. " whenever she would give me

some horrible outfit and order me to try it on, and even be in the dressing

room with me (which to a woman is horrifying enough!). As a grew older, I

would go shopping by myself.

One day, I went to work (my nada and I work together, but only until June)

wearing this new skirt I bought. One of my nada's friends came up to me and

said " Oh that is such a pretty skirt!! Let me guess... your mom doesn't like

it. " I explained to her the rage my nada went into over her disapproval of

the skirt. She simply replied " Your mom doesn't like anything that looks

good on you! "

That was a lightbulb moment for me.

AJ

[Guest guest]

Abby - It's not about the clothes. She wants you sitting there, looking at her,

totally involved with her clothing decision, and she will extend the exercise as

long as you'll allow it. However, it is possible to reprogram her so she won't

drag you into stores with her. When she sends you off to find other colors,

come back with the most gawd-awful ensemble you can find in her size. Tell her

you couldn't find what she wanted, but THIS looked so good, and you thought it

would suit her well. If she refuses to try it on, sulk until she does. If she

sends you back out, simply repeat the maneuver until she gets frustrated and

disgusted with your " taste in clothes. " Alternatively, every time she demands

your opinion on something she's picked out, tell her that the outfit makes her

look sallow, or her butt looks huge " from this angle. " A completely deadpan

delivery is essential to this. If you let on that you are messing with her, it

won't work. She must believe that you are a huge detriment to her

self-admiration. -

> > > >...ever spend time with you?

> > > >

> > > >I think beyond all else in this entire world, all I ever wanted

> > > >was for my

> > > >mother to spend time with me and make me feel special and for

> > > >once, make a

> > > >moment about me and not about herself. I wanted her to take my

> > > >shopping,

> > > >go out to eat, go to a movie, have a girls day out like I do

> > > >with my own

> > > >daughter. And the older I got, the more I started seeking this

> > > >from outside

> > > >people. I became close with a friend's mother and then that

> > > >friend and I

> > > >had a falling out, which meant I could no longer be friends

> > > >with her mother.

> > > >It was devastating for me.

> > > >

> > > >I feel like I kind of do this " I need a mommy " thing with

> > > >my therapist. I

> > > >hate her daughter, lol. Her daughter doesn't even know I

> > > >exist, but I

> > > >have seen her pictures in my therapist's office and I

> > > >can't help but feel that

> > > >jealously rise up in me...like why couldn't she have been

> > > >MY mother and

> > > >then I wouldn't be struggling with all of these issues.....

> > > >

> > > >One of the ways I get some healing is being close with my own

> > > >daughter.

> > > >She's only 8 now, but I can't wait for the day she is older and

> > > >we become best

> > > > friends. I so much want to be close with her and having a

> > > > loving, good

> > > >relationship. I mean, I want the same with my two boys too.

> > > >

> > > >My daughter and I did a little online " interview your child "

> > > >thing the

> > > >other day and one of the questions was " what do you enjoy doing

> > > >with your

> > > >mom? " My daughter said she liked when I paint fingernails and

> > > >she gets to help

> > > >with laundry.

> > > >

> > > >Such simple things that are special to her. Things I never had

> > > >with my

> > > >mother.

> > >

> > > --

> > > Katrina

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I remember having read somewhere that people with BPD can sometimes go through a

psychotic break. Typically, this occurs during a rage. So when they say they

don't remember doing or screaming horrible thing number 3,982, it may well be

true. A psychotic break often results in a complete loss of memory about the

events involved. (On the other hand, maybe the brain doesn't even process these

events at all, i.e. maybe the memories aren't " written " in the first place.)

qwerty

My nada has demonstrated transient breaks with reality on a few occasions that I

experienced as an adult, but perhaps she broke with reality and became

irrational during rages as well, when we were kids?

[Guest guest]

Oh geez. I had to model things too. Nada had to go in the dressing room with me

all the time too until I got about 14 and finally said enough. When I objected

she told me that I didn't have anything that she hadn't seen already. When I

stopped letting her in with me, she started yelling through the door " Come out

and let me see how it looks. " I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who went

through this.

> >

> > KaraJo and Astrid - God, yes. Me too. I know it doesn't equate to the

horrific abuse others have described, but shopping with Nada was a total

nightmare. I got to see what was available on the racks as I walked into the

department store's clothing section on the way to the fitting rooms. At that

point, Nada would have collected a huge armload of outfits she selected (and

this made the salesladies' eyes light up) - she would corral me in the fitting

room, bring several outfits at a time, and I had to try them all on and " model "

them for her. These clothes were very rarely anything that I would have liked

to wear, and they were usually too tight. Rather than just take my word that

something didn't fit, she insisted that I come to the door of the fitting room

area and show her that the buttons didn't meet, etc. She would stand there at

the entrance of the fitting rooms, giving orders to the saleslady and going into

great detail about how ungainly and fat I was, and how she couldn't understand

why I gave her such a hard time about shopping for clothes. The day I started

wearing a school uniform was one of the happiest days of my life, because it

meant no more shopping. -

>

[Guest guest]

Oh me too! I remember being about 5 years old and her driving me to the doctor.

She was really annoyed at the time and shrieked at me the whole way in the car -

" you'd better be sick " . I don't know why she thought I might be faking. God

knows I NEVER faked being sick. It wasn't worth it.

>

> yes, that's how my nada was...of course NOW she doesn't care at all...nada

> would yell at me if I got hurt because it was always MY fault, I wasn't

> careful...she'd be very irritated if I got sick...how dare I inconvenience

> her ??

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> I find it fascinating that *no* sub-category of bpd mother reacts in an

> appropriate or sane way when her child is injured or survives a

> life-threatening situation!

>

> The queen/witch reacted in anger whenever I got hurt and she expressed

> irritation and resentment whenever I became ill and needed nursing.

>

[Guest guest]

Oh, I know it's not about the clothes. Lately (as in the past few years), I

either wander out of the store and tell her I'll be outside waiting while she's

trying stuff on, which is what my dad always did. Or, when she asks if I like

it. I tell her that she's the one who has to wear it not me. That one always

gets her. She'll scream " you MUST have an opinion. " I usually either shrug and

walk away or sit there and say " not really. " . Depends on my mood. I haven't

played the " how does this look " game in well over a year. She got mad at me when

we went shopping durng her last visit because she picked out a pair of pants and

she said " how does these look " . I screwed up my face and shook my head. She was

furious, stomped in the dressing room, slammed the door and told me to go wait

outside. When I'm in a REALLY good mood and she's not pushing my buttons, I can

enjoy messing with her.

Abby

> > > > >...ever spend time with you?

> > > > >

> > > > >I think beyond all else in this entire world, all I ever wanted

> > > > >was for my

> > > > >mother to spend time with me and make me feel special and for

> > > > >once, make a

> > > > >moment about me and not about herself. I wanted her to take my

> > > > >shopping,

> > > > >go out to eat, go to a movie, have a girls day out like I do

> > > > >with my own

> > > > >daughter. And the older I got, the more I started seeking this

> > > > >from outside

> > > > >people. I became close with a friend's mother and then that

> > > > >friend and I

> > > > >had a falling out, which meant I could no longer be friends

> > > > >with her mother.

> > > > >It was devastating for me.

> > > > >

> > > > >I feel like I kind of do this " I need a mommy " thing with

> > > > >my therapist. I

> > > > >hate her daughter, lol. Her daughter doesn't even know I

> > > > >exist, but I

> > > > >have seen her pictures in my therapist's office and I

> > > > >can't help but feel that

> > > > >jealously rise up in me...like why couldn't she have been

> > > > >MY mother and

> > > > >then I wouldn't be struggling with all of these issues.....

> > > > >

> > > > >One of the ways I get some healing is being close with my own

> > > > >daughter.

> > > > >She's only 8 now, but I can't wait for the day she is older and

> > > > >we become best

> > > > > friends. I so much want to be close with her and having a

> > > > > loving, good

> > > > >relationship. I mean, I want the same with my two boys too.

> > > > >

> > > > >My daughter and I did a little online " interview your child "

> > > > >thing the

> > > > >other day and one of the questions was " what do you enjoy doing

> > > > >with your

> > > > >mom? " My daughter said she liked when I paint fingernails and

> > > > >she gets to help

> > > > >with laundry.

> > > > >

> > > > >Such simple things that are special to her. Things I never had

> > > > >with my

> > > > >mother.

> > > >

> > > > --

> > > > Katrina

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hmmmm...I guess I was in a psychotic break for most of my childhood because I

don't remember a lot of it. )

Actually, I have read that as well. I'm pretty sure nada is in a parallel

universe or altered reality when she rages. She's certainly not in the same one

as the rest of us.

>

> My nada has demonstrated transient breaks with reality on a few occasions that

I experienced as an adult, but perhaps she broke with reality and became

irrational during rages as well, when we were kids?

>

[Guest guest]

no, I never faked being sick either..I hated school. I am dyslexic but nada

always called me lazy because she didn't believe I had a learning

disability, so school was a source of major stress, but staying home with

nada was worse...

Jackie

Oh me too! I remember being about 5 years old and her driving me to the

doctor. She was really annoyed at the time and shrieked at me the whole way

in the car - " you'd better be sick " . I don't know why she thought I might be

faking. God knows I NEVER faked being sick. It wasn't worth it.

[Guest guest]

I remember always being so AFRAID when I got hurt becs I knew I'd get in

trouble, as it was obviously my own fault and clumsiness that I got hurt to

begin with. How sad. Once I was at a friend's house out of state for a short

visit (she'd moved away from my neighborhood). I hurt my foot, and her dad

apparantly realized that, but when he asked me several times if I was hurt, I

lied and said, " No, I'm not hurt. I'm just fine " because I was so afraid he'd be

mad at me. Wow, and now to think that he could have been one of those normal

guys who would have actually empathized with my pain...

>

> I find it fascinating that *no* sub-category of bpd mother reacts in an

appropriate or sane way when her child is injured or survives a life-threatening

situation!

>

> The queen/witch reacted in anger whenever I got hurt and she expressed

irritation and resentment whenever I became ill and needed nursing.

>

> Apparently the waif/hermit type of nada is dismissive, disinterested or

ignores incidents in which her child is injured, ill or has survived some

life-threatening, trauma!!

> ( " Oh, you're OK now, no big deal. Get over it. etc. " )

>

> Absolutely amazing. Good Lord, I suppose their lack of empathy shouldn't

surprise me at this point, but it just keeps doing so.

>

> -Annie

[Guest guest]

Whoa - insightful AND funny. Very good, !

= )

>

> Abby - It's not about the clothes. She wants you sitting there, looking at

her, totally involved with her clothing decision, and she will extend the

exercise as long as you'll allow it. However, it is possible to reprogram her

so she won't drag you into stores with her. When she sends you off to find

other colors, come back with the most gawd-awful ensemble you can find in her

size. Tell her you couldn't find what she wanted, but THIS looked so good, and

you thought it would suit her well. If she refuses to try it on, sulk until she

does. If she sends you back out, simply repeat the maneuver until she gets

frustrated and disgusted with your " taste in clothes. " Alternatively, every

time she demands your opinion on something she's picked out, tell her that the

outfit makes her look sallow, or her butt looks huge " from this angle. " A

completely deadpan delivery is essential to this. If you let on that you are

messing with her, it won't work. She must believe that you are a huge detriment

to her self-admiration. -

[Guest guest]

Yes,nada was angry with me if I got hurt...angry with me if I was sick...I

remember when I was ten we were at the beach and I scraped off a length of skin

from the side of my bare leg going down one of those huge slides on the

Boardwalk.It stung like hell and when I limped over to nada and told her she

stared right through me and walked away.Silly,stubborn me.Why did I never learn?

A while later my uncle happened to notice I had a large open wound down the

side of my leg and asked me ( I thought a bit accusingly) " When did this happen?

We're going to have to take you to the first aid station,that could be bad if it

gets infected.Why didn't you tell somebody? "

Hey,I DID.I told your sister and she just walked away.But I didn't say

that,just let the sort-of-accusation stand.It was actually worse to try to get

others to see what was really going on.I had tried that too a few times and got

rejected--that REALLY REALLY hurt.

--

> >

> > I find it fascinating that *no* sub-category of bpd mother reacts in an

appropriate or sane way when her child is injured or survives a life-threatening

situation!

> >

> > The queen/witch reacted in anger whenever I got hurt and she expressed

irritation and resentment whenever I became ill and needed nursing.

> >

> > Apparently the waif/hermit type of nada is dismissive, disinterested or

ignores incidents in which her child is injured, ill or has survived some

life-threatening, trauma!!

> > ( " Oh, you're OK now, no big deal. Get over it. etc. " )

> >

> > Absolutely amazing. Good Lord, I suppose their lack of empathy shouldn't

surprise me at this point, but it just keeps doing so.

> >

> > -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

Oh hell no my nada never spent quality time with me. The only time

she spent with me was raging at me for whatever she felt I had done

wrong.

But in her eyes, children need nothing more than " clothes on (their)

backs, food in (their) stomachs & a roof over (their) heads " (she

always told me she was a good mother for providing those things to

me). She doesn't think that children need an emotional bond with

their parents I guess, and It's very clear to me that she doesn't feel

quality time with kids is important either.

She's absolutely wrong.

I can relate to wanting a normal relationship with a normal mother.

My friends' moms were always very loving & nice. They went to lunch

with their daughters, took them shopping, to the movies, etc. I never

did any of that with nada. I had to grieve for that mother that I

always wanted & would never have. And boy, it was tough! It took a

long time for me to figure out I'd never have that.

As for the jealousy of your therapist's daughter, I can see where you

are coming from. But, don't be jealous, and maybe jealousy isn't the

best way to describe it. We can't help who our parents are. We

didn't ask to be brought into this world & into their care (or lack

thereof). All each of us can do is try to take positives even from

such horrible situations... For example: We're not them, nor are we

like them! We are stronger for having lived through it. We are

mostly normal... they are very ill.

Take care,

Justi

>

>

> ...ever spend time with you?

>

> I think beyond all else in this entire world, all I ever wanted was for my

> mother to spend time with me and make me feel special and for once, make a

> moment about me and not about herself. I wanted her to take my shopping,

> go out to eat, go to a movie, have a girls day out like I do with my own

> daughter. And the older I got, the more I started seeking this from outside

> people. I became close with a friend's mother and then that friend and I

> had a falling out, which meant I could no longer be friends with her mother.

> It was devastating for me.

>

> I feel like I kind of do this " I need a mommy " thing with my therapist. I

> hate her daughter, lol. Her daughter doesn't even know I exist, but I

> have seen her pictures in my therapist's office and I can't help but feel

> that

> jealously rise up in me...like why couldn't she have been MY mother and

> then I wouldn't be struggling with all of these issues.....

>

> One of the ways I get some healing is being close with my own daughter.

> She's only 8 now, but I can't wait for the day she is older and we become

> best

> friends. I so much want to be close with her and having a loving, good

> relationship. I mean, I want the same with my two boys too.

>

> My daughter and I did a little online " interview your child " thing the

> other day and one of the questions was " what do you enjoy doing with your

> mom? " My daughter said she liked when I paint fingernails and she gets to

> help

> with laundry.

>

> Such simple things that are special to her. Things I never had with my

> mother.

>

>

> **************The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy

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>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree. I wish I could have blacked it all out.

In a message dated 5/12/2009 7:54:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

sleddog@... writes:

my sister has blacked out most of our childhood...my sister has blacked out

mo

better off !

Jackie

Hmmmm...I guess I was in a psychotic break for most of my childhood

because

I don't remember a lot of it. )

Actually, I have read that as well. I'm pretty sure nada is in a parallel

universe or altered reality when she rages. She's certainly not in the

same

one as the rest of us.

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[Guest guest]

my sister has blacked out most of our childhood...sometimes I think she's

better off !

Jackie

Hmmmm...I guess I was in a psychotic break for most of my childhood because

I don't remember a lot of it. )

Actually, I have read that as well. I'm pretty sure nada is in a parallel

universe or altered reality when she rages. She's certainly not in the same

one as the rest of us.

[Guest guest]

I'm glad my words were meaningful to you - and I'm glad your daughter has the

gift of a real mother. I believe that will make all the difference for her.

>

> > Regarding our escape from being monsters... I choose to think of myself as

lucky, because as awful and in some ways powerful as it seems being nada, I also

know she is trapped in her own personal hell, and isn't strong enough to get

out... we're lucky because we're strong enough. Obviously it's a whole lot more

than luck - it's guts and hard work and determination and intelligence and self

reflection and a bunch of other things- but I also feel lucky. Somehow, I am ok.

>

[Guest guest]

MY,

Thank you. I wasn't sure how to articulate it. You said it so well. You can be

friends, but ultimately, your job will always be " mom " and they have peers who

can be their best friends. I think part of being a parent is knowing when to let

them go and being confident that you have given them all the tools and love that

they will succeed.

Abby

>

> I agree with you Abby. I have three kids and I love each of them dearly. I

> play with them like a child sometimes and we enjoy each other immensely at

> times. I have no desire to be their best friend though. They have peers for

> that. *I don't think they need me to be their best friend - they need me to

> be their mother.*

>

> There are aspects to our relationship that are friendlike - like our playing

> and our talking about things that matter to them. But in other ways my

> relationship with them as their mother is different than a best friend - in

> part because I think part of being their mother is to love them and care for

> them in ways that enable them to grow up and be their own individual people

> with their own friends. When they are grown up, I imagine my relationship

> with each of them will be different as they are very different individuals

> and I hope that we will still have a close and loving relationship and I

> imagine we will need to learn to relate as two adults rather than adult and

> child, but I still don't think I should be the best friend of any of them.

> If I were, I'd actually be a bit concerned that my husband and I had not

> done a very good job of setting them up to be able to deal with the world as

> an adult who separate from their parents.

>

> Just my two cents though and it certainly could be tainted by the fact that

> I would never want to be best friends with my nada.

>

> my

>

> > I have friends who are good friends with their mothers. I'm not jealous of

> > them, I just question how healthy those relationships really are. I just

> > don't believe it's healthy for a mother and daughter to be best friends. I

> > work with a lady who says " my daughter is my best friend and she knows me

> > better than anyone. " They talk on the phone all the time. They seem happy

> > enough, but gives me the creeps. Probably my warped KO point of view, who

> > knows.

> >

> > Abby

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>