Re: Hi All !

[Guest guest]

> Scubie wrote:

> Anyway.... I was wondering if anyone had success from back surgery?

> Also, What do you guys think of tens, IF, Muscle Simulators

Scubie,

Spine Universe is a good site for research. From my pain journey and choices,

here goes. Spinal Fusion and disc replacement is to provide functionality and

does not always reduce pain, I had gotten so bad that my discs were gone and it

was bone on bone and I had to have something to separate them and BAK cages with

instrumentation (two rods on each side to hold everything straight) and screws

that look ten feet long on MRI's.

Now, I had this journey the wrong way with a doctor that wanted to continue

injections as he couldn't figure out if I had herniated discs as bulged discs

can be herniated and not show well and a discogram shows the disintegrated discs

and according to the American Spinal Society and articles on Spinal Universe and

Spine Health if you have three injections and you have no relief, a discogram

should be done to verify the extent of damage to discs.

You have to be awake, they inject in each disc space and you stop when it hurts,

they document volume injected (this is guided under fluroscopy) and I had L-4,

L-5, and S-1 shot and this Doctor had done trigger points, epidurals, faucet

injections, diagnostic injections and the medication they inject are nuerotoxins

and can cause arachoidnitits (This is documented in research but argued by some

anestheliogists as it provides a good income for them and they do believe in it,

just as surgeons believe in their trade).

I had already decided I was leaving him but didn't want to let him know as he

complained that I did not have enough pain to warrant four Ultram a day. HA!

When he got the results of my discogram as they take you immediately after the

injections to CT exams and he saw them, he came in the room and told me, my

progress was poor and that I should wait around until new procedures are

developed, walked quickly out of the door, red in the face as he knew he was a

jerk.

This man called me non compliant as I missed and appointment and had to pick up

my medications and make my appointment when I got back into town when my MOTHER

DIED. I had called and coordinated this with his HEAD NURSE and I typed a memo

for record for him to enclose in my chart with a copy of my Mothers death

certificate.

The other time he called me incompetent, I was an Air Force Reservist and was

called to one month's active duty and had to do the same thing with the Nurses

permission and he signed the scripts and I provided my military orders !

He typed a letter to my Doctor GP stating my non compliance as he knew he had

diagnosed me wrong and was suggesting a neurotransmitter for me and TENS never

worked for me (members here say it is not the same thing but electrical impulses

are electrical impulses internally or externally)

When I saw the nuerosurgeon saw me he said my problem was I had bone on bone and

a neurotransmitter would not help that and I needed a spinal fusion for

stability and it was a three level that was needed that many Doctors do not like

to do as they say nearby vertebrae take the brunt of the fusion and break down.

I remember my Cerebral Palsy patients and others haven twelve vertebrae fused so

I had three opinions and had the surgery.

I did great and got out of bed more but had a auto wreck that damaged my SI

joint and other smaller functions, I have degenerative disc disease stay in

intense spasm, misaligned my SI joint all the time, have to wear a belt and am

on opioids.

I always chose my Doctors by looking at their training and specialty. I would

ask for an evaluation from a spinal specialist from a teaching hospital as they

always have the best and you can call the hospitals.

On thing you cannot play hard and work hard once you have degenerative disc

disease or surgery on your back, all the doctors I have been to state that I

cannot lift over ten pounds and cannot have a job that I do so, so no more

Nurse, military career, and I cross trained into teaching until I could no

longer drag myself to work and was instantly approved for disability after my

auto accident.

Good Luck to you and the members here are great and the archives listed here

already have many research items for you to view. The moderators do a great job

and many members can also tell of your experience but the surgery has to be your

personal decision and realistic expectations.

Good Luck Bennie

[Guest guest]

Bennie wrote:

> I had gotten so bad that my discs were gone and it was bone on bone and I had

to have something to separate them and BAK cages with instrumentation -

Hi Bennie

Isn't it weird how differently things work out for our backs? The discs

in the lower part of my back were in shreds, so the doctor cleaned out

the mess and deliberately put my lower spine bone on bone. The doctor

was pretty sure that my arthritis would knit the three vertebrae

together in short order - and it did.

Granted it's not fun having arthritis that is bad enough to do that, but

it worked out perfectly for me. At my six months check up, the pictures

showed great natural fusion. At the time, the doctor told me that with

the extend of my arthritis, if any surgeon tried to sell me on metal for

my back, I should get out of his/her office as quickly as possible. :-)

It's no wonder doctors get frustrated trying to treat us. We react

differently to medications. Surgery that gives one person back some

quality of life, can cripple the next person. It must be the money that

keeps the doctors from running away screaming. (just kidding)

Lyndi

[Guest guest]

Thanks to all who responded, and yes Lyndi, I agree that everyone responds

differently, which make sense when you factor in drug interaction, OTC and diet

differences. I sometimes wish I could have 1 doctor prescribing and treating my

whole body instead of seeing 12 different specialists, each one prescribing and

treating only 1 part of the body.

Much of my frustration stems from all the wonder drugs I took and now have

complications, and the drugs I take to counteract side effect of other drugs,

which leads me to Bennie post about steroidal injections.

When I 1st injured myself, the pain management doc, did the epidural, trigger

point injection and every other injection he could think of since I responded

well, and yes Lyndi, there's LOTS of money to be made. The problem is he got

greedy and instead of stopping at 3, he started doing the injections in his

office. I received 3 injections a month, instead of 3.

I swelled up like a bowling bowl and ended up needing a biopsy due to my

toxicity levels. I was told no more steroids ever. So like everything, too much

of a good thing.

My current pm doc tells me my only options are opioids, nerve blockers, pt and

surgery. Unless there are other options that I don't know about? I hoping

others will respond who had success --- there's got to be something else out

there that helps.

> Lyndi wrote:

> It's no wonder doctors get frustrated trying to treat us. We react

> differently to medications.

[Guest guest]

Hi Scubie,

I have spinal osteoarthritis and DDD, plus idiopathic pain in my neck.

I have tried chiropractic care, and although I believe that that *does* work for

*some* people, it did not work for me. Also, the chiropractor had me doing

electrical stimulation, and that just made the pain worse for me, although I do

believe that that type of treatment also does work for some people. I stopped

seeing my chiropractor about two weeks ago because it wasn't working.

Now I am seeing a DO (doctor of osteopathic medicine), who also does

manipulations, but DOs' techniques are much gentler, plus they actually go to

medical school whereas chiropractors don't (and don't necessarily need a

bachelors degree to get their doctorate in chiropractic medicine; again, not

picking on chiropractors, because I do believe it works for some people,

otherwise it wouldn't be covered by insurance--just pointing out a fact).

I saw my DO for the first time this past Friday (2 days ago), and see her again

in about 3 weeks. I have been in lots more pain since I saw her than I usually

am in, but she said that that could be normal because my body is reacting to the

adjustments (or something like that; I mentioned toxins being released, and she

seemed to think that the info about toxins is actually *mis*information; but,

whatever--*something* certainly happens).

I also tried PT for my neck, but the exercises the therapist gave me just made

my neck hurt MUCH worse. I told the DO about this, and she (the DO) said that

the exercises the PT therapist gave me were too rough for me given the condition

of my neck right now.

My DO also said that she wants me to walk for at least 20-30 mins 5 times a

week. I looked at her like, " What?! Are you kidding me?! " although I didn't

actually say that or react like that (but that is what I was thinking). I told

her that it hurts more when I walk, so she suggested that I slowly work up to

that amount of walking. I do believe that walking does help arthritis pain

(mainly because that is what research has shown), but I can't do it right now

because it hurts too much.

Some other things I have tried are massage therapy (doesn't work long-term, only

very short-term, and can get VERY expensive, especially because it is not

covered by most insurance), opioids, Tramadol, and anticonvulsants. The latter

two don't help at all. The opioids help some, but the low dose I am on right now

does not help me very much (although it does help me some). This is because I am

getting them from my GP, not a PM; I have an intake appt. with a Pain Management

doctor in mid October, and my GP is just prescribing them until I get in to see

him (the Pain Management doctor).

I wish I were more knowledgeable about what types of treatments there are out

there. Oh, wait, I can think of a few: there are intrathecal pain pumps, pain

patches, spinal stimulators, and occipital nerve

stimulators/blockers/something-like-that (they are implantable; both 2-lead AND

4-lead kinds exist, and the 4-lead kind has been shown to work much better than

the 2-lead kind).

Okay, I think that that is the limit of my knowledge of things that help to

relieve pain. I would ask Bennie about the pain ladder, she is very

knowledgeable about that (and many other things!!).

Sorry I can't be of more help. I hope some of this does help, though.

Welcome to the group, by the way!!

Sincerely,

e.h.

> Scubie wrote:

> My current pm doc tells me my only options are opioids, nerve blockers, pt

and surgery. Unless there are other options that I don't know about? I hoping

others will respond who had success --- there's got to be something else out

there that helps.

[Guest guest]

This is incredible. A couple of years ago I had severe heart problems and it

was needed to place stints in so the clogging of veins could be fixed, when they

got in there to see, my veins being so blogged on the right side had made its

own tunnel fixing itself of being blocked. So they only had to put one stint

inside instead of three. Sometimes our bodies do decide to fix itself. Again

the power of the mind to direct the body to fix itself. It is rare but does

happen.

[Guest guest]

H. wrote:

> I also tried PT for my neck, but the exercises the therapist gave me just made

my neck hurt MUCH worse. I told the DO about this, and she (the DO) said that

the exercises the PT therapist gave me were too rough for me given the condition

of my neck right now.

,

Have you had an MRI (with and without contrast) done on your neck? My

neck is a mess and doctors and physiotherapists kept wanting me to do

this exercise and that exercise. After I had the MRIs done, they were

horrified that they'd even suggested the things that they had.

I now do gentle shrugs and stretches, use hot and cold packs, wear

Lidoderm patches and every couple of years, I submit to radio frequency

lesioning.

Of course, the next step is surgery, but I haven't found a surgeon here

who will give me patient references. If I can't confer with other

patients, who have had similar surgery, I'm not going to let a doctor

get a scalpel anywhere near me. :-)

Lyndi

[Guest guest]

Different type of treatments help each person differently, for we all are

individuals. All of us are different, for each thing affects each person

differently that is for sure. I am grateful for it would be a very boring world

if one thing was for everyone. It can be a tiring journey though to find what

really works to give us all an increased quality of life. I am still on my

journey.