Re: Those who benefit from AA

[Guest guest]

At 17:39 16/12/99 -0800, you wrote:

>too bad that there are so many great people in

>aa...why do you think that it helps some people (or at

>least appears to) and is poison for others, such as it

>was for myself? some people seemed to benefit from AA,

>while others like myself, would rather be dead than go

>to aa. I " recovered " after I left.

I can think of a number of possibilities for those that are " helped " . There

are the healthy AA members (relatively speaking) who are healthy because

they don't bother with the program and have sufficient psychological

defenses to ward off the superstition and control. When I was a member I

could never understand these people! I suspect that what is happening is

that they are not really " benefiting from AA " but simply using it as a

social network, which is in itself therapeutic.

Then there are those who appear to benefit- they will say they do, and set

out to prove it as often as possible. In some cases they simply haven't

experienced enough of life to realise that their beliefs are not helping

them. Or they interpret everything through a religious filter and are lost

to the wrold of free thought! They will talk about their spirituality and

relationship with God and how much the program has helped them. Most of

such people are kidding themselves but substituting the religious belief

system and superstition for actual mental health and personal

effectiveness. In fact their lack of personal effectiveness and mental

health is used as further justification for how much they need their HP and

the program! Usually there is no getting through to such people- they know

what they want to believe and will try to justify it because they believe

it to be true. I used to be one of these. It was a difficult time because I

had this belief system but the actual evidence that I was benefiting was

rather hard to find. I was sober, free of drugs, but not exactly tranquil

or serene, like I thought I was supposed to be. Consequently I had a rather

thin skin and didn't like to have my precarious belief system challenged,

even by the mere existence of the healthier people who didn't seem to take

my beliefs as seriously as I thought they should. You may know others like

this.

Then of course there are the people who really DO benefit from AA. I don't

know how many of these I met- probably four or five. ;-)

Joe B.

[Guest guest]

It's worth pointing out that one of the things you get from AA is great

training in how to put a happy spin on things, when you talk about how your

life is going. It takes a few years in and around the fellowship to fully

appreciate the degree to which what you see is NOT what you get.

I tend to agree that the people who significantly benefit from the Program

(the Steps and the spiritual practice) are very few, but they do exist. I

only know of one for sure. There are also some who blithely reinterpret the

whole thing and manage to improve their lives, using their own beliefs and a

lot of common sense. It's almost like AA has somehow given them permission

to do this.

There a few rather unfortunate people who just wouldn't have any kind of

community life at all if it weren't for AA. I'm thinking, for instance, of

people who suffer from socially crippling mental illnesses, retardation, and

the like.

Then there are the real low-bottom drunks who have lost everthing. AA can be

a very useful way to re-integrate into the community, meet people who are

making it, find out where to get a job and a place to live. It's a first

step up from living at the Salvation Army or some shelter, where the people

you meet are all either in the same fix as you, or professional " helpers. "

Of course you can say that there really ought to be something other than AA

to meet these needs, but in practice often there isn't.

One thing I do believe is that nobody, absolutely nobody, gets sober because

of AA. There is always a completely private decision and determination

behind the fact that at some point an individual stops drinking. Some will

say they just walked through the door by accident, went along for the ride,

and without ever thinking much about what happens next, found themselves

never wanting to drink again. But I don't believe them.

--wally

Re: Those who benefit from AA

>At 17:39 16/12/99 -0800, you wrote:

>>too bad that there are so many great people in

>>aa...why do you think that it helps some people (or at

>>least appears to) and is poison for others, such as it

>>was for myself? some people seemed to benefit from AA,

>>while others like myself, would rather be dead than go

>>to aa. I " recovered " after I left.

>

>

>I can think of a number of possibilities for those that are " helped " . There

>are the healthy AA members (relatively speaking) who are healthy because

>they don't bother with the program and have sufficient psychological

>defenses to ward off the superstition and control. When I was a member I

>could never understand these people! I suspect that what is happening is

>that they are not really " benefiting from AA " but simply using it as a

>social network, which is in itself therapeutic.

>

>Then there are those who appear to benefit- they will say they do, and set

>out to prove it as often as possible. In some cases they simply haven't

>experienced enough of life to realise that their beliefs are not helping

>them. Or they interpret everything through a religious filter and are lost

>to the wrold of free thought! They will talk about their spirituality and

>relationship with God and how much the program has helped them. Most of

>such people are kidding themselves but substituting the religious belief

>system and superstition for actual mental health and personal

>effectiveness. In fact their lack of personal effectiveness and mental

>health is used as further justification for how much they need their HP and

>the program! Usually there is no getting through to such people- they know

>what they want to believe and will try to justify it because they believe

>it to be true. I used to be one of these. It was a difficult time because I

>had this belief system but the actual evidence that I was benefiting was

>rather hard to find. I was sober, free of drugs, but not exactly tranquil

>or serene, like I thought I was supposed to be. Consequently I had a rather

>thin skin and didn't like to have my precarious belief system challenged,

>even by the mere existence of the healthier people who didn't seem to take

>my beliefs as seriously as I thought they should. You may know others like

>this.

>

>Then of course there are the people who really DO benefit from AA. I don't

>know how many of these I met- probably four or five. ;-)

>

>

>Joe B.

>

>

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>

[Guest guest]

wally

i agree.i tell people when i was ready to stop drinking i walked into

aa (mainly becasue that was only group i was ever told about by

shrinks etc..) i would ahve been just as sucessful in any other group

if i had gone in there at that time. No one quits drinking with out

making that choice to do so.

dave