And the point of it all

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to write to thank the people who expressed genuine concern

over my earlier posts regarding suicide. For someone like me, who thinks

all of humanity is out to do me in, the posts helped a lot. I want to assure

everyone that I was not manipulating nor making a play for attention when I

talked about how bad I was feeling. It was real. But I know now not to use

this list as an outlet for my emotional problems.

In an earlier post, Rita wrote...

A compulsion to stir up trouble and manipulate others, and a feeling of

entitlement to " show people how stupid they are " or whatever, is usually

symptomatic of a personality disorder (Borderline? Narcissistic? - maybe

just plain Asshole?) and I personally steer clear of such persons. I do

hope Matt is doing OK, and that he is seeking out help from a

better therapist.~Rita

Thank you Rita. I believe this list has a few people who do like to, as you

said, " show people how stupid they are and stir up trouble. " But it is my

belief that this list is a discussion group. Where people talk about their

fight against the evil 12 step movement.

What I finally figured out was that I was barking up the wrong tree by

trying to find support for my emotional problems here. This list is good

for one things: its a place to bash on AA and to find new ways to bash on

AA. In my opinion, this list is just as bad as AA because all it does is

concentrate on the negative.

AA doesn't work because all people do is beat themselves up and never

talk about their feelings of betrayal and hurt. This list is the same way.

No one talks about what's going on with them or if anything is bothering

them personally. No, they'd rather ramble on and on about this stupid 12

step movement.

I've found out after a year of trashing AA and worshipping S.M.A.R.T.

that neither side is right and neither side is wrong. They are both too

extreme to be anything. AA is too religious and SMART, Rational Recovery

and this list are too logical.

In my belief there needs to be a mix of the two: meaning, a mix of

logic/science and spirituality that is based in the power of humanity or the

so called " higher power. " Not God, but some kind of spirituality.

I think some kind of connection with people is essential to a person's

happiness and in getting sober.

My wish is that they would do away with both AA and SMART, and

combine the two. I mean, its the year 2000. Can't they think of something

better. Something a little more modern than Bill's story and 'science can

cure all.'

This anti-12 step movement is a pointless exercise. Because its a

movement against an irrelevant group. AA is harmless. It hurts no one.

And neither does it help anyone permantly. SMART is harmless too. Most of

society isn't even aware it exists. But you've got these two insignificant

groups who hate each other and want the other to go away.

No one cares about this stuff except addicts who are connected to either

group. Most of society couldn't care less.

AA is not a cult. They've never tracked me down or told me I had to

come back. And SMART and Rational Recovery are not these evil people that AA

makes them out to be.

People do not like to talk about what's really going on with them.

And especially people who are prone to addiction. This list and AA just

gives people another outlet to do just that: avoid talking about

themselves.

They can talk about the steps, or the big book or here, they can talk about

how bad AA is, and how the steps are manipulative and hurtful.

My fault is that I did not recognize that sooner. If I took better

care of myself, and didn't live in an un-reality I'd probably notice things

like this.

I see life as a bunch of experiences. A learning experience that never

stops.

Being on this list was yet another learning experience.

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