Re: POLITICS In Support of Organic and Social Justice Values

[Guest guest]

I agree with this post. Most of Obama's cabinet choices don't impress me

either, quite the contrary. And now he's chosen Rev Rick the Homophobe.

Not a good start, to put it kindly.

But what should I expect? Every time progressives step up to the plate and work

hard for the Democratic Party, they always get burned (at least in the

Presidential campaign). Not even one adviser who is remotely progressive. Then

when some Progressives get fed-up and vote for a Third Party , as happened in

2000, the DP faults them for losing the election.

-

> From: Draper <jd40000@...>

> Subject: POLITICS In Support of Organic and Social Justice Values

>

> Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 6:29 AM

> www.stopvilsack.org <http://www.stopvilsack.org/>

>

>

>

> http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_16156.cfm

>

>

>

>

>

> President-Elect Obama's choice for Secretary of

> Agriculture, Tom

>

> Vilsack, will be responsible for directing the U.S.

> Department of

>

> Agriculture and its $90 billion annual budget, including

> the National

>

> Organic Program, food stamp and nutrition programs, and

> agriculture

>

> subsidies. But you can help stop his confirmation.

>

>

>

> Ronnie Cummins of Organic Consumer's Association, in an

> interview on

>

> December 18, 2008 said, " Vilsack has been an ardent

> promoter, not only

>

> of genetically engineered foods and crops, but also of the

> extremely

>

> controversial biopharmaceutical crops, which involves

> [inaudible]

>

> pharmaceutical drugs or industrial chemicals into food

> crops. Even,

>

> people in the biotech industry are alarmed by these

>

> biopharmaceuticals, since you could get dangerous drugs

> throughout the

>

> food supply. But Vilsack supported biopharm crops when he

> was

>

> governor.

>

>

>

> He went further than that. In the year 2005, Vilsack

> championed a law

>

> in Iowa that's been introduced all over the country,

> backed by

>

> Monsanto and the Farm Bureau. This law, this preemption

> law, as

>

> they're called, basically takes away the right of

> municipalities or

>

> counties to regulate genetically engineered crops. Vilsack

> rammed this

>

> through, even though it's extremely unpopular with not

> only consumers,

>

> but small farmers.

>

>

>

> Vilsack has repeated the myth of the biotech industry that

> genetically

>

> engineered crops can help feed the world, when in fact

> genetically

>

> engineered crops do not produce a higher yield. And

> he's spoken about

>

> their environmental benefits, when the sum total of ten

> years of

>

> genetically engineered crops in the United States have

> increased the

>

> use of pesticides, not decreased them. "

>

>

>

> Having lived in Iowa when Vilsack was governor, we have

> experienced

>

> the results of his support of CAFOs and Monsanto so we know

> the above

>

> statements are true.

>

>

>

> Please join the Organic Consumers Association and help stop

> Vilsack's

>

> Senate confirmation and lobby for a Secretary of

> Agriculture that

>

> reflects organic and social justice values.

>

>

>

> I am urging my friends and family to take action today.

>

> Check out first site, and vote on 2nd site.

>

>

>

> www.stopvilsack.org <http://www.stopvilsack.org/>

>

>

>

> http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_16156.cfm

>

>

>

> click where it says:

>

>

>

> CLICK HERE TO STOP VILSACK'S CONFIRMATION

>

>

>

> ..

>

> Six Reasons Why Obama Appointing Monsanto's Buddy,

> Former Iowa Governor

> Vilsack, for USDA Head Would be a Terrible Idea

>

> OCA, November 12, 2008

>

> * Former Iowa Governor Tom Vilsack's support of

> genetically engineered

> pharmaceutical crops, especially pharmaceutical corn:

>

> http://www.gene.ch/genet/2002/Oct/msg00057.html

>

> http://www.organicconsumers.org/gefood/drugsincorn102302.cfm

>

>

>

> * The biggest biotechnology industry group, the

> Biotechnology Industry

> Organization, named Vilsack Governor of the Year. He was

> also the founder

> and former chair of the Governor's Biotechnology

> Partnership.

>

> http://www.bio.org/news/pressreleases/newsitem.asp?id=200

> <http://www.bio.org/news/pressreleases/newsitem.asp?id=200%E2%80%A6>

> .

>

> * When Vilsack created the Iowa Values Fund, his first

> poster child of

> economic development potential was Trans Ova and their

> pursuit of cloning

> dairy cows.

>

> * Vilsack was the origin of the seed pre-emption bill in

> 2005, which many

> people here in Iowa fought because it took away local

> government's

> possibility of ever having a regulation on seeds- where GE

> would be grown,

> having GE-free buffers, banning pharma corn locally, etc.

> Representative

> Sandy Greiner, the Republican sponsor of the bill, bragged

> on the House

> Floor that Vilsack put her up to it right after his state

> of the state

> address.

>

> * Vilsack has a glowing reputation as being a schill for

> agribusiness

> biotech giants like Monsanto. Sustainable ag advocated

> across the country

> were spreading the word of Vilsack's history as he was

> attempting to appeal

> to voters in his presidential bid. An activist from the

> west coast even made

> this youtube animation about Vilsack

>

>

>

> The airplane in this animation is a referral to the

> controversy that Vilsack

> often traveled in Monsanto's jet.

>

> *Vilsack is an ardent support of corn and soy based

> biofuels, which use as

> much or more fossil energy to produce them as they

> generate, while driving

> up world food prices and literally starving the poor.

>

> http://cryptogon.com/?p=5739

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with this post. Most of Obama's cabinet choices don't impress me

either, quite the contrary. And now he's chosen Rev Rick the Homophobe.

Not a good start, to put it kindly.

But what should I expect? Every time progressives step up to the plate and work

hard for the Democratic Party, they always get burned (at least in the

Presidential campaign). Not even one adviser who is remotely progressive. Then

when some Progressives get fed-up and vote for a Third Party , as happened in

2000, the DP faults them for losing the election.

-

> From: Draper <jd40000@...>

> Subject: POLITICS In Support of Organic and Social Justice Values

>

> Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 6:29 AM

> www.stopvilsack.org <http://www.stopvilsack.org/>

>

>

>

> http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_16156.cfm

>

>

>

>

>

> President-Elect Obama's choice for Secretary of

> Agriculture, Tom

>

> Vilsack, will be responsible for directing the U.S.

> Department of

>

> Agriculture and its $90 billion annual budget, including

> the National

>

> Organic Program, food stamp and nutrition programs, and

> agriculture

>

> subsidies. But you can help stop his confirmation.

>

>

>

> Ronnie Cummins of Organic Consumer's Association, in an

> interview on

>

> December 18, 2008 said, " Vilsack has been an ardent

> promoter, not only

>

> of genetically engineered foods and crops, but also of the

> extremely

>

> controversial biopharmaceutical crops, which involves

> [inaudible]

>

> pharmaceutical drugs or industrial chemicals into food

> crops. Even,

>

> people in the biotech industry are alarmed by these

>

> biopharmaceuticals, since you could get dangerous drugs

> throughout the

>

> food supply. But Vilsack supported biopharm crops when he

> was

>

> governor.

>

>

>

> He went further than that. In the year 2005, Vilsack

> championed a law

>

> in Iowa that's been introduced all over the country,

> backed by

>

> Monsanto and the Farm Bureau. This law, this preemption

> law, as

>

> they're called, basically takes away the right of

> municipalities or

>

> counties to regulate genetically engineered crops. Vilsack

> rammed this

>

> through, even though it's extremely unpopular with not

> only consumers,

>

> but small farmers.

>

>

>

> Vilsack has repeated the myth of the biotech industry that

> genetically

>

> engineered crops can help feed the world, when in fact

> genetically

>

> engineered crops do not produce a higher yield. And

> he's spoken about

>

> their environmental benefits, when the sum total of ten

> years of

>

> genetically engineered crops in the United States have

> increased the

>

> use of pesticides, not decreased them. "

>

>

>

> Having lived in Iowa when Vilsack was governor, we have

> experienced

>

> the results of his support of CAFOs and Monsanto so we know

> the above

>

> statements are true.

>

>

>

> Please join the Organic Consumers Association and help stop

> Vilsack's

>

> Senate confirmation and lobby for a Secretary of

> Agriculture that

>

> reflects organic and social justice values.

>

>

>

> I am urging my friends and family to take action today.

>

> Check out first site, and vote on 2nd site.

>

>

>

> www.stopvilsack.org <http://www.stopvilsack.org/>

>

>

>

> http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_16156.cfm

>

>

>

> click where it says:

>

>

>

> CLICK HERE TO STOP VILSACK'S CONFIRMATION

>

>

>

> ..

>

> Six Reasons Why Obama Appointing Monsanto's Buddy,

> Former Iowa Governor

> Vilsack, for USDA Head Would be a Terrible Idea

>

> OCA, November 12, 2008

>

> * Former Iowa Governor Tom Vilsack's support of

> genetically engineered

> pharmaceutical crops, especially pharmaceutical corn:

>

> http://www.gene.ch/genet/2002/Oct/msg00057.html

>

> http://www.organicconsumers.org/gefood/drugsincorn102302.cfm

>

>

>

> * The biggest biotechnology industry group, the

> Biotechnology Industry

> Organization, named Vilsack Governor of the Year. He was

> also the founder

> and former chair of the Governor's Biotechnology

> Partnership.

>

> http://www.bio.org/news/pressreleases/newsitem.asp?id=200

> <http://www.bio.org/news/pressreleases/newsitem.asp?id=200%E2%80%A6>

> .

>

> * When Vilsack created the Iowa Values Fund, his first

> poster child of

> economic development potential was Trans Ova and their

> pursuit of cloning

> dairy cows.

>

> * Vilsack was the origin of the seed pre-emption bill in

> 2005, which many

> people here in Iowa fought because it took away local

> government's

> possibility of ever having a regulation on seeds- where GE

> would be grown,

> having GE-free buffers, banning pharma corn locally, etc.

> Representative

> Sandy Greiner, the Republican sponsor of the bill, bragged

> on the House

> Floor that Vilsack put her up to it right after his state

> of the state

> address.

>

> * Vilsack has a glowing reputation as being a schill for

> agribusiness

> biotech giants like Monsanto. Sustainable ag advocated

> across the country

> were spreading the word of Vilsack's history as he was

> attempting to appeal

> to voters in his presidential bid. An activist from the

> west coast even made

> this youtube animation about Vilsack

>

>

>

> The airplane in this animation is a referral to the

> controversy that Vilsack

> often traveled in Monsanto's jet.

>

> *Vilsack is an ardent support of corn and soy based

> biofuels, which use as

> much or more fossil energy to produce them as they

> generate, while driving

> up world food prices and literally starving the poor.

>

> http://cryptogon.com/?p=5739

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I know. Then the real progressives get blamed for the policies and

beliefs of the mainstream DP folks, even though on some issues we are

night and day. If I have to watch one more conservative tell me that

I'm statist or authoritarian because some mainstream Democrats are, I

think I'll scream. Ditto for the ones who go on about " liberals " not

knowing about the plight of small farmers or " liberals " not knowing that

women are oppressed in Afghanistan. Puke. Give me a break. There are

leftists who are pro-homeschooling, leftists who are pro-seed saving,

leftists who are pro-localization. Believe it or not.

I'm happy Obama won for two reasons. One, Mickey Mouse would be an

improvement on the last eight years, to say nothing of Obama. Two, I

couldn't be happier that my country has gotten this far in race

relations that it's willing to vote a black man into the White House. I

don't think we're cured of racism by a long shot, but we're moving in

that direction.

But I voted for McKinney. Had she not run I would have voted

for Ralph Nader. And as long as this stuff continues to go on within

the DP ranks I'm only voting for them when there's no other option but a

Republican. Because the only thing scarier than a statist neoliberal is

a statist fundamentalist.

I *said* (elsewhere) that I was afraid Obama would be another Clinton...

I hate to be right in matters like these.

Dana

Seay wrote:

> I agree with this post. Most of Obama's cabinet choices don't impress me

either, quite the contrary. And now he's chosen Rev Rick the Homophobe.

> Not a good start, to put it kindly.

>

> But what should I expect? Every time progressives step up to the plate and

work hard for the Democratic Party, they always get burned (at least in the

Presidential campaign). Not even one adviser who is remotely progressive. Then

when some Progressives get fed-up and vote for a Third Party , as happened in

2000, the DP faults them for losing the election.

>

> -

>

>

>

>

>> From: Draper <jd40000@...>

>> Subject: POLITICS In Support of Organic and Social Justice Values

>>

>> Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 6:29 AM

>> www.stopvilsack.org <http://www.stopvilsack.org/>

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Wow, am I ever on the wrong list.

Jon - who takes the Bible seriously, including the parts that we're stewards of

the earth and that we're to keep our bodies pure 'as temples' (that's what

brought me to this group)

Dana wrote:

But I voted for McKinney. Had she not run I would have voted

for Ralph Nader. And as long as this stuff continues to go on within

the DP ranks I'm only voting for them when there's no other option but a

Republican. Because the only thing scarier than a statist neoliberal is

a statist fundamentalist.

Seay wrote:

> I agree with this post. Most of Obama's cabinet choices don't impress me

either, quite the contrary. And now he's chosen Rev Rick the Homophobe.

> Not a good start, to put it kindly.

.

[Guest guest]

No, but I may be on the wrong list if only the conservatives can express

themselves politically here.

This list isn't for religious or political discussions as far as I can

tell, but someone else brought up the politics, and I probably shouldn't

have responded to that, and wow, what a great introduction to the list.

*eyeroll at myself* That said, you know very well that when a

non-Christian speaks of fundamentalists trying to run the country, they

aren't speaking of all Christians, and not even the

Christians-in-name-only who water down their faith to please other

people. (I have a problem with the latter too, and I'm not even

Christian; I feel that if you're going to claim to be part of a faith

then you should practice it correctly, or as near to correctly as you

can manage, bearing in mind there are multiple interpretations for any

scripture.)

But the people I speak of and view unfavorably may not even be

Christian, but only hijacking Christianity for their own purposes. And

had you been in my shoes for the last fifteen years and seen the damage

those people are doing to this country behind the scenes, you would not

be getting defensive at me now. And IF you do know, and IF you approve

of what they're doing, forgive me for saying that I don't really care if

you approve of me or my words, as I don't approve of you either and I

think you are a traitor to everything this country is supposed to stand for.

I have a fairly good memory for Bible verses, even if I don't always

remember where I found them; once said that a person can only be

converted by the Holy Spirit. Fair enough. Is Pat on the Holy

Spirit? No. Is Spitz? I hope not. Is Jerry Falwell? Can't

be. He's dead. (Probably not in Heaven either.) Is W. Bush?

Doubt it. How about R. J. Rushdoony? I would imagine he's in the same

place Falwell is, wishing for air conditioning. Rod Parsley? Should be

stood up against the nearest wall and sent to keep Falwell and Rushdoony

company. Those are the kinds of so-called " Christians " I do not want to

see running this country. I would rather have someone up there like,

say, Jimmy . I don't agree with all his beliefs either, but I

think the man's a real Christian, and we need more of the real ones and

a lot fewer of the other type. Which are what I mean by

" fundamentalists. " Like it or not the word does NOT have a good

connotation for those who are not Christians. I mean, how many Muslims

should be rounded up and prescriptions refused and gays killed and

clinics blown up and doctors shot and Pagan children taken from their

parents and women told they should stay home with the kids unless

they're poor and black and then they'd better not, before people decide

enough is enough?

I want to live in a country where people really do have freedom of

religion, not just freedom of Christianity. If that means keeping the

right-wing wackos out of office in every way possible that doesn't

violate the Constitution, so be it. So if nothing else, I refuse to

vote for them. AND the neoliberals, which are of a brand of centrist

wacko-ism all their own.

But I was once in the Army, and still take my oath seriously, and would

fight to the death for you to practice your faith peacefully without

harm to others. And I would hope you would do the same for me and

mine. My grievance is with those who want to see me dead simply for not

attending their church. I hope you can tell the difference.

I think I am bowing out of this thread. It isn't really on-topic

anyway. Sorry.

Dana

Jon and wrote:

> Wow, am I ever on the wrong list.

>

> Jon - who takes the Bible seriously, including the parts that we're stewards

of the earth and that we're to keep our bodies pure 'as temples' (that's what

brought me to this group)

>

[Guest guest]

That was such a pitiful attempt at manipulation. We don't care if you

stay. Go, stay, whatever. It's a big list, and we're not going to

weep if you leave. One member more or less makes little difference.

The fundamentalists and the more open-minded people don't change their

minds about religion due to ANYTHING that ANYONE says here, so stop

wasting your time manipulating (or arguing, either one) people into

going along with your religious agenda. I promise, it won't work.

Neither the fundamentalists or any else gets their minds changed about

religion on this list. We all have our guard up.

One thing I've learned here, and in life in general, but especially

here, is that you can be a very well-read, logical, reasonable person

about one very small area of your life, and totally crazy about

another area. Sometimes the two areas can be closely-related. A

perfect example would be Masterjohn. He's pretty much a genius

when it comes to lipid chemistry and fat-soluble vitamins. Don't

bother to try and tell him to eat more raw food, though. His

responses about fat-soluble vitamins are orders of magnitude smarter

than his responses about raw versus cooked food. It's educational to

watch what goes on here. You will see a lot of examples of this here

and in life. To me, it means that I need to investigate everything

for myself, and take very little at the word of others, even if they

seem to really know their stuff about a related area. IOW, " believe

none of what you hear, and half of what you see. "

Okay, enough rambling.

Mike

>

> Wow, am I ever on the wrong list.

>

> Jon - who takes the Bible seriously, including the parts that we're

stewards of the earth and that we're to keep our bodies pure 'as

temples' (that's what brought me to this group)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

> One thing I've learned here, and in life in general, but especially

> here, is that you can be a very well-read, logical, reasonable person

> about one very small area of your life, and totally crazy about

> another area. Sometimes the two areas can be closely-related. A

> perfect example would be Masterjohn. He's pretty much a genius

> when it comes to lipid chemistry and fat-soluble vitamins. Don't

> bother to try and tell him to eat more raw food, though. His

> responses about fat-soluble vitamins are orders of magnitude smarter

> than his responses about raw versus cooked food. It's educational to

> watch what goes on here.

Part of that is certainly that I have a much greater background in the

area of lipids and fat-soluble vitamins than in raw foods. I'm not

sure, however, why you think it would be so difficult to tell me to

eat more raw food. I generally feel better when I've been eating more

raw food. I have also eaten raw meat, raw liver, raw heart, raw milk,

and various other things raw that most others have not.

Chris