Re: Mercola Turns Against Cod Liver Oi

[Guest guest]

Do mean not enough A? Not enough D to handle D doesn't make sense.

On Dec 10, 2008, at 6:51 AM, jeremyfox wrote:

Dr. Mercola has turned on cod liver oil, but in his statement he does

repeat the WAPF position. He seems to think most people don't have

enough vitamin D to handle the vitamin D in cod liver oil.

Parashis

artpages@...

artpagesonline.com

[Guest guest]

,

> Dr. Mercola has turned on cod liver oil, but in his statement he does repeat

> the WAPF

> position. He seems to think most people don't have enough vitamin D to

> handle the vitamin

> D in cod liver oil.

This is mostly the work of Cannell and the Vitamin D Council. Mercola

is repeating it. Cannell continually refers to the 16 experts who

signed on to his paper, but also keeps saying that he wrote the paper,

so that means to me that it's his. The entire paper is an attempt to

explain why cod liver oil in the 1930s had 30-50% efficacy in

preventing respiratory infections and why cod liver oil now has

minimal if any efficacy, which the paper attributes to the massively

lower level of vitamin D in modern cod liver oil, due to deodorization

without sufficient subsequent fortification. Cannell also blames

winter fishing of cod in an audio interview. The paper goes on from

there to argue that no cod liver oil should be given at all, but

there's no evidence-based justification for the final conclusion that

no one should be given cod liver oil.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Sorry, Vitamin A is allegedly the toxic component if you do not have enough

vitamin D.

>

> Dr. Mercola has turned on cod liver oil, but in his statement he does

> repeat the WAPF position. He seems to think most people don't have

> enough vitamin D to handle the vitamin D in cod liver oil.

>

>

>

> Parashis

> artpages@...

>

> artpagesonline.com

>

[Guest guest]

I have spoken with Dr. Reinhold Veith in person regarding this exact

issue. For those who may not know, Dr. Veith was the second " author "

of Dr. Cannell's article. He told me that he does NOT agree with Dr.

Cannell's outright ban of cod liver oil. Dr. Veith IS ultimately

concerned with the possibility of vitamin A toxicity, BUT he claimed

that a teaspoonful per day of cod liver oil is not of concern.

So essentially I agree with your statement that this is Dr. Mercola

riding on Dr. Cannell's coattails without doing his own research.

At this point I have very little respect for Dr. Mercola.

[Guest guest]

> This is mostly the work of Cannell and the Vitamin D Council. Mercola

> is repeating it. Cannell continually refers to the 16 experts who

> signed on to his paper, but also keeps saying that he wrote the paper,

> so that means to me that it's his. The entire paper is an attempt to

> explain why cod liver oil in the 1930s had 30-50% efficacy in

> preventing respiratory infections and why cod liver oil now has

> minimal if any efficacy, which the paper attributes to the massively

> lower level of vitamin D in modern cod liver oil, due to deodorization

> without sufficient subsequent fortification. Cannell also blames

> winter fishing of cod in an audio interview. The paper goes on from

> there to argue that no cod liver oil should be given at all, but

> there's no evidence-based justification for the final conclusion that

> no one should be given cod liver oil.

>

> Chris

>

Ridiculous. Why not just suggest that people take high-vitamin CLO?

Are these researchers really that irresponsible and dumb? I can't

imagine they are. There must be some other reason they come to this

conclusion?

If not, it's absolutely pathetic.

K.

[Guest guest]

After looking/studying clo intensely over the last 8 years i don't have the

answers but i am

starting to make judgments.

it is not the wild fish that changed the nutritional value of clo over the years

it is strictly a

result of the industrialization of a sacred food. no different that real milk

vs pasteurized

milk.

Real milk is a sacred food and always has been, we all understand that the

industrialization of milk is what gives milk its bad name. but industry will

not allow for the

free flow of the debate.

same holds true for clo. it is not the cod liver oil that is to blame but

rather the

industrialization of the sacred food. the industrialization process changes

much that is

good or sacred within clo.

i would like to see a change in focus early in the debate. change the focus or

discussion

from clo good/bad to industrialization of our sacred foods as good or bad.

one step further, it is not vitamin A that is bad/good it is that we don't

understand the

whole picture or completeness of nutrition/sacred foods.

dave wetzel

[Guest guest]

I've posted quite a few comments on Mercola's blog concerning my

belief that he is wrong on this topic, and he has deleted all of them.

I have lost any remnants of respect that I once had for him. Mercola

is a man with an agenda, and truth is not his primary objective.

[Guest guest]

Dave,

Good to hear from you. Some have said that you make the fermented cod liver oil

from raw

livers yourself, so it is not made industrially. Is that right, you get the

livers yourself and

make the oil without the damaging deoderizing process, etc?

[Guest guest]

> best. We need a scientific understanding of how all this works in

> order to assure that the values which led to something being

> considered sacred in the first place aren't inadvertently lost even

> while tradition is maintained.

>

> -

+++i am leaning towards we don't even understand the question to be asked so

there is no

way to get a 'real' answer. so maybe there is some irrelevance in needing to

understand

all...maybe we should accept...

anyway, this comes from 2 years of looking at clo and getting nothing but more

questions

that science is not ready to answer.... i can see nothing but a never ending

cycle of questions,

answers, then rephrasing questions, finding that previous conclusions are wrong

ect....

in todays world we think we have to 'know'. but in reality we have always

thought this way,

funny that what we think we definetively 'know' we understand it different at

different times.

yet at any one point we think we have the knowledge correct. only to change our

minds later.

so what is the point other than to prove others wrong ect.... never ending loop

[Guest guest]

>correct...

dave

>

> Dave,

>

> Good to hear from you. Some have said that you make the fermented cod liver

oil from raw

> livers yourself, so it is not made industrially. Is that right, you get the

livers yourself and

> make the oil without the damaging deoderizing process, etc?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dave,

Can you clear something up quickly? Currently, is your fermented CLO

the only one with only naturally present vitamins A & D and no

synthetic vitamins A & D? I've heard that the regular Blue Ice CLO has

synthetic vitamins added.

Thanks,

Tom

[Guest guest]

hello

1. there is much more the real clo beond A/D

2. you can buy low nutreint content clo that has natural vitamins ... but close

to zero is

not much to talk about

3. plenty available of the hvclo . we will no longer offer this product once

our stock runs

out. the regular blue ice does not have synthetics

4. we will have plenty of the fermented in the works, working on labeling,

other

improvements and price....

>

> Dave,

>

> Can you clear something up quickly? Currently, is your fermented CLO

> the only one with only naturally present vitamins A & D and no

> synthetic vitamins A & D? I've heard that the regular Blue Ice CLO has

> synthetic vitamins added.

>

> Thanks,

> Tom

>

[Guest guest]

Dave,

> 1. there is much more the real clo beond A/D

>

> 2. you can buy low nutreint content clo that has natural vitamins

.... but close to zero is

> not much to talk about

>

> 3. plenty available of the hvclo . we will no longer offer this

product once our stock runs

> out. the regular blue ice does not have synthetics

>

> 4. we will have plenty of the fermented in the works, working on

labeling, other

> improvements and price....

Thanks, but it's still not clear. Which oil are you referring to when

you say " regular blue ice " ? On your site I see only " Blue Ice

High-Vitamin CLO " and " Blue Ice Fermented CLO " . Based on the product

labels, it appears that the high-vitamin has synthetic vitamins added,

whereas the fermented has naturally occurring vitamins (hence the

" min " IU amounts listed for vitamins A and D). Is that correct?

For what it's worth, I have no problem with synthetic vitamins, but

many people have claimed that one of the principal reason to take CLO

is that it's a natural source of vitamins A and D. And that would be a

point in favor of your fermented CLO but not most CLOs.

Thanks for providing great products to the community!

Tom

[Guest guest]

Which oil are you referring to when

> you say " regular blue ice " ?

hvclo

On your site I see only " Blue Ice

> High-Vitamin CLO " and " Blue Ice Fermented CLO " . Based on the product

> labels, it appears that the high-vitamin has synthetic vitamins added,

why is this? never has been the case and there is no place on any publication

that would

indicate this

> whereas the fermented has naturally occurring vitamins (hence the

> " min " IU amounts listed for vitamins A and D). Is that correct?

>

> For what it's worth, I have no problem with synthetic vitamins,

i do, synthetic hormones are damaging (vitamin d is a hormone) and synthetic

vitamins do

not have all the co-factors that are required for your body to properly use the

nutrients.

but

> many people have claimed that one of the principal reason to take CLO

> is that it's a natural source of vitamins A and D. And that would be a

> point in favor of your fermented CLO but not most CLOs.

i would agree, in time it will be understood that the real nutrients are well

beyond what

we discuss today A/D3.... there is much more going on

>

> Thanks for providing great products to the community!

thank you for your support

>

> Tom

>

[Guest guest]

Dave,

> On your site I see only " Blue Ice

> > High-Vitamin CLO " and " Blue Ice Fermented CLO " . Based on the product

> > labels, it appears that the high-vitamin has synthetic vitamins added,

>

> why is this? never has been the case and there is no place on any

publication that would

> indicate this

It just seemed improbable to me that the vitamins A & D naturally

present in the oil would occur in *precisely* a 10:1 ratio. On my

bottle of HV Blue Ice the A is listed as 5750 IU and the D as 575 IU.

However, on your more recent label I see the amounts are listed as

5000 IU " min " and 500 IU " min " which makes more sense.

Looking again at the label on my bottle I do see it says

" unfortified " , so the mistake was mine.

Thanks for the clarification.

Tom

[Guest guest]

there are better cod liver oils than Carlson's, like Green Pasture's brand,

especially the

fermented clo. Carlson's soft gel cod liver oil capsules are listed under GOOD

in the WAPF

shopping guide.

> What do you think of Carlson's cod liver oil?

[Guest guest]

Lana,

> I've read what some companies do is isolate the natural A and D, and

then

> add the same natural A and D back to the original oil in set amounts

so they

> can control the ratio.

Interesting. I have seen vitamin A/D supplements listed as " fish oil

source " so I know some companies do use the naturally occurring A/D,

so it wouldn't surprise me if some CLO manufacturers do the same. Thanks.

Tom

[Guest guest]

carlson uses natural a and d. . .

desh

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[Guest guest]

Here's my 2 cents from the POV of a Green Pasture's customer...

There was only one plant in all of Europe that was setting aside

natural A/D from the CLO itself and adding that back to adjust A/D

levels. This plant has switched to using synthetic A/D. Many brands of

HVCLO used this plant so they are all affected. Dr. Ron's is one

example.

The only products affected at Green Pastures AFAIK is their HVCLO, not

the fermented stuff. The fermented stuff is made in NE by Dave from

whole raw livers. I can only recommend the Raw Fermented since it's

the only type I've tried. It does have a strong taste though. And

since it's lacto-fermented it can leave a bit of a burning sensation

in your throat. The way to avoid this is to put the CLO in your mouth,

and then drink some water as you swallow the CLO and water together.

The only mills left that could claim to use natural A/D are from Asia

and, right or wrong, I think most people have a negative view of Asian

produced food products because of all the recent Chinese food tainting

scandals.

I would be highly skeptical of any seller of CLO that claims it

contains only natural A/D (other than Green Pastures of course). The

reason stems from my experience with Nature's Harmony. Their HVCLO

says " All Natural " on the label and under the specs lists " Vitamin A

(cod liver oil)... " and " Vitamin D (cod liver oil)... " . However, when

you call their manufacturer, they will tell you that they top up with

synthetic A/D. And it turns out their Connecticut based manufacturer

actually gets the CLO from a mill in Europe, so they must just be a

bottler.

Many CLO manufacturers consider synthetic vit. D to be natural

" because it' s made from lanolin " . Which might be factually accurate,

but is highly misleading. First of all, lanolin is a much more

expensive feed stock for synthetic vitamin D manufacturing. This is

because it doesn't naturally contain much 7-dehydrocholesterol (which

is the feed stock that is exposed to UVB to make vitamin D3). The

lanolin is a source of plain old cholesterol which has to be highly

processed to convert it into 7-dehydrocholesterol.

Pig and Cow skins already has 7-dehydrocholesterol plus it is far more

plentiful than lanolin so it is much cheaper to make synthetic vitamin

D3 from animal skins than lanolin. They just use the word lanolin to

greenwash what they're doing.

Here is a supporting link if you want more details:

http://vitamind.ucr.edu/milk.html

-

>

> carlson uses natural a and d. . .

>

> desh

> ____________________________________________________________

> Click for online loan, fast & no lender fee, approval today

>

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>

[Guest guest]

in my opinion he has lost all credibility. he has changed his opinion 3-4 times

in two

years. each time the opinion change had to do with directing traffic to his

fish oil/krill oil.

he almost points to the real problem (industrialization of one of our sacred

foods...just like

milk) but then directs the conversation that all clo is bad and buy my krill

oil. he twists

his reasoning to fit his mode of sales. this is not proper nor ethical.

especially when so

many people look up to him for advise.

he even goes as far as to say that 'omega 3's' are essential 'nutrients' / it

is not the fats

that are the real nutrients but they are part of the puzzle. the fats bind

hormone,nutrient,co-factor, vitamins, quinones together for proper nourishing of

our

bodies. the fats are the carriers not the 'essential nutrients'. but when

these fish oils are

made the nutrients are destroyed. he at least recognizes that the fish oils

have no

vitamins/nutrients other than a few fatty acids.

fish oils do not have real nutrients to discuss so he can't tell the real story

as it will not fit

his sales mode

dave

[Guest guest]

where is the wapf shopping guide?

> > What do you think of Carlson's cod liver oil?

>

[Guest guest]

you can get one for a dollar here

http://www.westonaprice.org/membership/orderform.html

better yet, join WAPF and get one for free along with their excellent quarterly

journal.

http://www.westonaprice.org/membershipform.pdf

> > > What do you think of Carlson's cod liver oil?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm using TwinLab cod liver oil. Do you have a take on that? I called

the manufacturer and they dont add any vitamin a.

[Guest guest]

thanks

> >

> > where is the wapf shopping guide?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

it is not one of the recommended brands. how much A and D is in a serving size?

what is the

serving size?

>

> I'm using TwinLab cod liver oil. Do you have a take on that? I called

> the manufacturer and they dont add any vitamin a.

>