Re: Getting A and D [was Erythema Nodosum connected to food?]

[Guest guest]

--- Tom Jeanne <tjeanne@...> wrote:

> Vitamin D would be a good idea anyway in the winter. The Vitamin D

> Council, Dr. Mercola, and others recommend 4,000 to 6,000 IU per day

> in the winter for most people. As long as you're not vitamin A

> deficient, such doses should be very safe.

>

> This recent study found that 3,800 to 5,000 IU is needed to attain a

> serum 25-OH-vitamin D level of 30 ng/mL (which is still suboptimal)

> in the winter months.

>

> http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/6/1952

Tom, how much A and D are you taking this winter and in what form? Do

you have any concerns about getting 4,000 to 6,000 IU of D from

fermented CLO because of all the PUFA that comes with it? To get

4,000 IU per day of D would take 1 1/3 tsp and to get 6,000 IU per day

would take 2 tsp per day. Regular CLO according to USDA data has

about 1 gram of PUFA (mostly omega-3) per tsp. That's not a lot, but

if you're already on the edge of 4% of calories per day as PUFA, it

could push you over a little.

[Guest guest]

,

> Tom, how much A and D are you taking this winter and in what form? Do

> you have any concerns about getting 4,000 to 6,000 IU of D from

> fermented CLO because of all the PUFA that comes with it? To get

> 4,000 IU per day of D would take 1 1/3 tsp and to get 6,000 IU per day

> would take 2 tsp per day. Regular CLO according to USDA data has

> about 1 gram of PUFA (mostly omega-3) per tsp. That's not a lot, but

> if you're already on the edge of 4% of calories per day as PUFA, it

> could push you over a little.

Yes, I've been discussing this off-list with Chris. Lately I've been

trying to minimize omega-6 rather than worry about supplementing with

omega-3. I do still take high-vitamin CLO a few times a week, but most

of my vitamin D intake is in the form of a D3 supplement. When I feel

a cold or flu coming on, I increase to 20K to 30K IU of D3 for several

days. It appears that I've defused two colds so far this winter with

this technique. Cannell suggests pharmacological doses (1,000-2,000 IU

per kg per day!) for three days to stop a flu.

I have been increasing my A intake correspondingly when I increase the

D. suggested a 1:1 ratio (A:D) as being the lowest advisable,

but we don't have much evidence for an ideal ratio at this point.

Tom

[Guest guest]

--- Tom Jeanne <tjeanne@...> wrote:

> Lately I've been trying to minimize omega-6 rather than worry about

> supplementing with omega-3. I do still take high-vitamin CLO a few

> times a week, but most of my vitamin D intake is in the form of a D3

> supplement. When I feel a cold or flu coming on, I increase to 20K

> to 30K IU of D3 for several days. It appears that I've defused two

> colds so far this winter with this technique. Cannell suggests

> pharmacological doses (1,000-2,000 IU per kg per day!) for three

> days to stop a flu.

Thanks for the input Tom. I'm not too concerned about the PUFA in

routine doses of high vitamin CLO. At around 1 gram PUFA (mostly

omega-3 EPA and DHA) per tsp dose that provides about 2,500 IU of D

and 25,000 IU of A that's not a lot of PUFA for one day. However, I

can see that mega-dosing might not be a good idea with CLO because of

the PUFA. I weigh a little over 90 kg and that would mean 90,000 IU

of D per day for cold/flu from Cannell's recommendation. To get that

much from HVCLO would take about 36 tsp and would come with 36 g of

PUFA! That dosage would also provide about 900,000 IU of A, which does

seem a little high

> I have been increasing my A intake correspondingly when I increase

> the D. suggested a 1:1 ratio (A:D) as being the lowest

> advisable, but we don't have much evidence for an ideal ratio at

> this point.

My wife won't take CLO even in capsules. She and my daughter also get

cold sores, which may be a contributing factor to Alzheimer's and my

wife's mom had Alzheimer's that became noticeable in her mid 60's.

So, I'm thinking they would both benefit from routine A and D3, more

than what's in the multivitamin they have been taking. Have you found

a good source for D3 and A?

I'm guessing that for optimal absorption, these supplements should be

taken with a meal that includes some fat to help with the assimilation

of these fat-soluble vitamins. I'm also curious what forms of these

vitamins are best for absorption.

[Guest guest]

,

> Thanks for the input Tom. I'm not too concerned about the PUFA in

> routine doses of high vitamin CLO. At around 1 gram PUFA (mostly

> omega-3 EPA and DHA) per tsp dose that provides about 2,500 IU of D

> and 25,000 IU of A that's not a lot of PUFA for one day. However, I

> can see that mega-dosing might not be a good idea with CLO because of

> the PUFA.

Are you referring to Green Pasture's fermented CLO? Wow, I was not

aware how high the vitamin content of the fermented oil is. The

" high-vitamin " regular CLO only has 1000 IU of D per teaspoon versus

almost 3000 IU in the fermented. The fermented CLO also has a lower

A:D ratio. I may buy some soon. I agree, at that dosage the PUFA is

pretty minimal.

> I weigh a little over 90 kg and that would mean 90,000 IU

> of D per day for cold/flu from Cannell's recommendation. To get that

> much from HVCLO would take about 36 tsp and would come with 36 g of

> PUFA! That dosage would also provide about 900,000 IU of A, which does

> seem a little high

Ya, I would not recommend taking that much A!

> My wife won't take CLO even in capsules. She and my daughter also get

> cold sores, which may be a contributing factor to Alzheimer's and my

> wife's mom had Alzheimer's that became noticeable in her mid 60's.

> So, I'm thinking they would both benefit from routine A and D3, more

> than what's in the multivitamin they have been taking. Have you found

> a good source for D3 and A?

That Alzheimer article was very interesting indeed. I'm taking NSI

Vitamin D3 from vitacost.com. They have excellent deals on their own

brand (NSI), which seems decent but I don't have any hard evidence for

that. I just bought a bottle of 300 capsules of 4000 IU D3 for $20.

That is very hard to beat. My only qualm is that they are gelatin

capsules rather than softgels. I've read that softgels protect the

contents from oxidation better than capsules. However, most softgels

for fat-soluble vitamins are filled with soybean oil, whereas the

filler in these capsules is rice flour and magnesium stearate. I'd

much rather ingest these than soybean oil (PUFAs!). I believe mag

stearate is simply a magnesium ion bound to a saturated fatty acid and

is harmless.

EDIT: looks like NSI just started offering the same size of D3 in

softgel form now, filled with rice bran oil rather than soybean oil.

Not sure what the PUFA content of that is, though....

> I'm guessing that for optimal absorption, these supplements should be

> taken with a meal that includes some fat to help with the assimilation

> of these fat-soluble vitamins. I'm also curious what forms of these

> vitamins are best for absorption.

Yes, take them with a fatty meal or snack. Vitamin D3

(cholecalciferol) is the only form you want to take, and I've not

heard of any absorption problems with it. Vitamin A in the form of

retinol or retinyl esters (e.g. retinyl palmitate) is well absorbed

too (hence the toxicity risk). I'm not sure if the carotenoids are as

readily absorbed as the retinoids, but regardless they are poorly

converted to active vitamin A in the body.

Tom

[Guest guest]

--- Tom Jeanne <tjeanne@...> wrote:

> Are you referring to Green Pasture's fermented CLO? Wow, I was not

> aware how high the vitamin content of the fermented oil is. The

> " high-vitamin " regular CLO only has 1000 IU of D per teaspoon versus

> almost 3000 IU in the fermented. The fermented CLO also has a lower

> A:D ratio. I may buy some soon. I agree, at that dosage the PUFA is

> pretty minimal.

Tom,

I've been taking the Blue Ice Gold (CLO plus butter oil), which says

it has 500 IU D and 5,000 IU A per ml, which translates to 2,500 IU D

and 25,000 IU A per tsp (5ml/tsp). It has slightly more A and

slightly less D per unit than the Blue Ice fermented CLO (10:1 vs

7:1). But it looks like the Blue Ice CLO and Blue Ice Gold will be

discontinued soon, at which time I will switch to the fermented, which

Dave Wetzel says he makes on his on from cod livers (and he will

continue making it). Dave has said that the company that supplies the

CLO he is selling will be changing to adding manufactured A and D

rather than A and D derived from the CLO and that is the reason he

will no longer carry it.

[Guest guest]

i was under the impression that all cod liver oil has synthetic vitamin A added

to it and that's how they get a standardized mixture. is this incorrect?

so, the fermented cod liver oil has no synthetics what-so-ever?

thanks,

sabine.

[Guest guest]

none of the Green Pastures clo's have synthetic vitamins added to them. the raw

fermented

clo is probably the best one.

http://www.greenpasture.org/products

>

> i was under the impression that all cod liver oil has synthetic vitamin A

added to it and

that's how they get a standardized mixture. is this incorrect?

>

> so, the fermented cod liver oil has no synthetics what-so-ever?

>

> thanks,

> sabine.

>