Re:eating on a Food Stamp Budget

[Guest guest]

I think this guy can't get a sponsor, because this is a mean spirited

challenge, rather than an attempt to educate those on food stamps about

alternatives for eating. Many folks on food stamps have multiple issues

which prevent them from eating well- physical ailments, mental ailments,

etc. plus usually a lifetime of nutritional deprivation which can impair

mental function. And there is also class guilt- they feel bad for

requiring the handout and internalize the guilt, and buy themselves crap

because it's what they feel they deserve. I had some friends in college

who qualified for food stamps, and said that they received glares in the

grocery store if they bought a roast or anything similar. She said it

was expected that they get bologna and white bread- really expected.

I have known lots of people on food stamps, and no one was selling them

right outside the door or anything like that.

Desh

____________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Desh,

I have to disagree here. The only " ailment " we have is insufficient income,

and we have food stamps. Everyone we know with food stamps has the same

" ailment " .

The issue with food stamps is that as long as you're buying " food " , it goes

through. So if you were so inclined, you could live off of soda and TV

dinners. I honestly think they should restrict blatantly unhealthy foods,

but the other half of me doesn't want them meddling in what I can buy.

I've never gotten glares for buying meat (unless I was also using my WIC

checks - it might have something to do with the fact food stamps are on a

card now so not as obvious as they were at one point), I've never even

gotten glares for shopping at Whole Foods with my food stamps.

I do have to agree about the class thing though - I feel bad I'm

occasionally shopping at Whole Foods with government " handouts " , but they

accept the card so I'm technically " allowed " to. So I do shop there, when I

can make the trip.

My biggest issue with food stamps is just the general availability of

grass-fed meats, dairy, etc. You're just not going to find it in a grocery

store (well, maybe if you're really lucky WF will have some in stock.) Same

issue with raw milk - the local HFS has it, but they don't take the stamps

whereas the supermarkets do take the stamps but don't stock raw milk. I

don't know what the process to apply for EBT transaction abilities is, but I

do wish that more health food stores (and farms!) would do so.

-Lana

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 2:53 PM, De Bell-Frantz <deshabell@...> wrote:

> Many folks on food stamps have multiple issues

> which prevent them from eating well- physical ailments, mental ailments,

> etc. plus usually a lifetime of nutritional deprivation which can impair

> mental function. And there is also class guilt- they feel bad for

> requiring the handout and internalize the guilt, and buy themselves crap

> because it's what they feel they deserve. I had some friends in college

> who qualified for food stamps, and said that they received glares in the

> grocery store if they bought a roast or anything similar. She said it

> was expected that they get bologna and white bread- really expected.

>

> I have known lots of people on food stamps, and no one was selling them

> right outside the door or anything like that.

>

> Desh

[Guest guest]

You should talk to the local health food store about accepting food

stamps. I live in California now, and I can use my food stamps at the

local health food store and the farmers market. When i lived in PA,

the Food Coop in Pittsburgh accepted foodstamps and even gave a 10%

discount when you used foodstamps which was very nice of them...an

incentive for people to use foodstamps to buy real food.

-

>

> Desh,

> I have to disagree here. The only " ailment " we have is insufficient

income,

> and we have food stamps. Everyone we know with food stamps has the same

> " ailment " .

>

> The issue with food stamps is that as long as you're buying " food " ,

it goes

> through. So if you were so inclined, you could live off of soda and TV

> dinners. I honestly think they should restrict blatantly unhealthy

foods,

> but the other half of me doesn't want them meddling in what I can buy.

>

> I've never gotten glares for buying meat (unless I was also using my WIC

> checks - it might have something to do with the fact food stamps are

on a

> card now so not as obvious as they were at one point), I've never even

> gotten glares for shopping at Whole Foods with my food stamps.

>

> I do have to agree about the class thing though - I feel bad I'm

> occasionally shopping at Whole Foods with government " handouts " , but

they

> accept the card so I'm technically " allowed " to. So I do shop

there, when I

> can make the trip.

>

> My biggest issue with food stamps is just the general availability of

> grass-fed meats, dairy, etc. You're just not going to find it in a

grocery

> store (well, maybe if you're really lucky WF will have some in

stock.) Same

> issue with raw milk - the local HFS has it, but they don't take the

stamps

> whereas the supermarkets do take the stamps but don't stock raw milk. I

> don't know what the process to apply for EBT transaction abilities

is, but I

> do wish that more health food stores (and farms!) would do so.

>

> -Lana

>

> \

[Guest guest]

Live next to New Mexico one of the three welfare states Texas has to

pay into. There are those few who use food stamps at the farmers

market which is great as they are purchasing real food. However

most often you see tons of ready to heat food all processed. This

was pointed out to me years ago by friends working at the different

stores. They state you can often take one look at the shopping cart and

know how they will be paying.

Many of these people are 3rd, 4th and 5th generation welfare. When

people work two and three jobs to feed their families, have nice things

sometimes they are not really thrilled to see someone purchasing items

they can not afford for their own families.

Every few years in this town they run under cover operations on

the people selling food stamps, for gas, and drugs. One lady

who got caught was actually in the paper stating they did not give her

enough money for gas, new clothes and such that is why she sold some

of her food stamps every week.

From: De Bell-Frantz

I think this guy can't get a sponsor, because this is a mean spirited

challenge, rather than an attempt to educate those on food stamps about

alternatives for eating. Many folks on food stamps have multiple issues

which prevent them from eating well- physical ailments, mental ailments,

etc. plus usually a lifetime of nutritional deprivation which can impair

mental function. And there is also class guilt- they feel bad for

requiring the handout and internalize the guilt, and buy themselves crap

because it's what they feel they deserve. I had some friends in college

who qualified for food stamps, and said that they received glares in the

grocery store if they bought a roast or anything similar. She said it

was expected that they get bologna and white bread- really expected.

I have known lots of people on food stamps, and no one was selling them

right outside the door or anything like that.

Desh

[Guest guest]

Lana,

Have you ever tried making a deal with a farmer or a worker at a

health food store. I'll bet you could find someone who would let you

buy them items with your food stamps and trade for the items you want.

Not sure how awfully legal this is but....

Belinda

> My biggest issue with food stamps is just the general availability of

> grass-fed meats, dairy, etc. You're just not going to find it in a

grocery

> store (well, maybe if you're really lucky WF will have some in

stock.) Same

> issue with raw milk - the local HFS has it, but they don't take the

stamps

> whereas the supermarkets do take the stamps but don't stock raw milk. I

> don't know what the process to apply for EBT transaction abilities

is, but I

> do wish that more health food stores (and farms!) would do so.

>

> -Lana

[Guest guest]

Belinda,

Being caught selling food stamps/trading items bought with food stamps

incurs a number of penalties, including a lifelong ban from the program and

in some states, necessitates you pay back all the benefits you have

received... If the consequences wern't so bad, I might consider it - YKWIM?

-Lana

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 8:00 PM, labelleacres <labelleacres@...>wrote:

> Lana,

>

> Have you ever tried making a deal with a farmer or a worker at a

> health food store. I'll bet you could find someone who would let you

> buy them items with your food stamps and trade for the items you want.

> Not sure how awfully legal this is but....

>

> Belinda

>

>

[Guest guest]

Lana,

> The issue with food stamps is that as long as you're buying " food " , it goes

> through. So if you were so inclined, you could live off of soda and TV

> dinners. I honestly think they should restrict blatantly unhealthy foods,

Yeah I can see it now, the government, in the name of health under the

guise of their own science, restricting the purchase of foods that are

high in saturated fat.

The people are always going to lose the battle when the government

decides it wants to regulate our food freedoms to " protect " us from

harm.

> but the other half of me doesn't want them meddling in what I can buy.

>

> I've never gotten glares for buying meat (unless I was also using my WIC

> checks - it might have something to do with the fact food stamps are on a

> card now so not as obvious as they were at one point), I've never even

> gotten glares for shopping at Whole Foods with my food stamps.

I think the debit style card certainly has made the use of food stamps

less transparent.

> I do have to agree about the class thing though - I feel bad I'm

> occasionally shopping at Whole Foods with government " handouts " , but they

> accept the card so I'm technically " allowed " to. So I do shop there, when I

> can make the trip.

Its not always a class thing. Some people aren't glaring cuz you are

poor as defined by the government and unable to afford enough food,

people are glaring cuz you are using a gov't handout, and if you don't

" look the part " may be inclined to think you are rigging the system on

your behalf. I used to see all kinds of people using food stamps when

I was younger and I would think, " no way. " And I knew some of those

folks **were** gaming the system on their behalf.

Unfortunately that is the nature of distant impersonal government

wealth transfer programs. There will be those who really need it, and

then there will be others, often many others, who should not be

receiving any help.

A basic principle of economics is that when you subsidize something,

you will always get more of it, regardless of need.

--

It doesn't matter how many people don't get it. What matters is how

many people do. If you have a strong informed opinion, don't keep it

to yourself. Try and help people and make the world a better place. If

you strive to do anything remotely interesting, just expect a small

percentage of the population to always find a way to take it

personally. F*ck 'em. There are no statues erected to critics.

- Ferriss

[Guest guest]

There's just got to be some way around all that...

Belinda

>

> Belinda,

> Being caught selling food stamps/trading items bought with food stamps

> incurs a number of penalties, including a lifelong ban from the

program and

> in some states, necessitates you pay back all the benefits you have

> received... If the consequences wern't so bad, I might consider it

- YKWIM?

>

> -Lana

>

[Guest guest]

People around here sell food stamps all the time, so they can purchase

things they otherwise couldn't get with food stamps. They are fairly

discreet about it. You probably have to go to the right part of town

to find a willing buyer but I seriously doubt anyone has been caught

or if the gov't even looks for this kind of thing. Unless someone was

a running a food stamp ring I think most folks would consider it a

huge waste of time, of course that doesn't mean the gov't wouldn't do

it.

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:22 AM, labelleacres <labelleacres@...> wrote:

> There's just got to be some way around all that...

>

> Belinda

>

>

>>

>> Belinda,

>> Being caught selling food stamps/trading items bought with food stamps

>> incurs a number of penalties, including a lifelong ban from the

> program and

>> in some states, necessitates you pay back all the benefits you have

>> received... If the consequences wern't so bad, I might consider it

> - YKWIM?

>>

>> -Lana

[Guest guest]

I agree with some of the things you have brought up. I constantly

get looks for buying healthy stuff like organic products from

checkers and the people in line behind me. All is fine until i pull

out my EBT card. One checker said to me i wish i could afford to eat

like this. Oh no wonder you get food stamps. I kindly pointed out

to her that the whole organic chicken i was buying was on sale and

cheaper than the conventional kind in the case next to it. I also

mentioned that just because we receive food stamps there is no reason

why i should be feeding my family a bunch of processed foods so we

could be sick all the time from lack of healthy food. I also told

her that when one takes out the trash and sticks with whole fresh

foods the cost is quite comparable.

I don't feel guilty anymore buying helathy food......except when i

buy some store kombucha because it is so expensive and really not

necessary. But some days i crave it so bad i just have to buy one.

Most of the people i know who receive food stamps are ill informed

but do not have any actual handi caps or limitations on them besides

their own willful ignorance. If you know me you know that eating

processed foods is eating death and that whole foods esp. ferments

are life. So in my immediate circle of friends/family they all know

and choose to eat the crap anyways. They all complain about how much

food they go through and their kids are always starving. I tell them

it is because they are feeding them empty fake food and their kids

really are starving. They complain about how they are all tired,

sick, and ill behaved, i point out the culprits in their diets and

give examples from our own life or various books/articles i read. I

tell them but they just keep buying ramen, kraft mac, ding dongs,

fruit loops, and soda.

The most often heard excuses i get are: 1 we can't afford to buy

whole food it is more expensive than the boxed stuff. 2 i would feel

bad to deprive my kids of X, Y, Z they like it too much. 3 oh, my

kids wouldn't eat that stuff ever so why buy it. 4 i don't have time

to cook like that, i am just way too busy for that.

>

> I think this guy can't get a sponsor, because this is a mean

spirited

> challenge, rather than an attempt to educate those on food stamps

about

> alternatives for eating. Many folks on food stamps have multiple

issues

> which prevent them from eating well- physical ailments, mental

ailments,

> etc. plus usually a lifetime of nutritional deprivation which can

impair

> mental function. And there is also class guilt- they feel bad for

> requiring the handout and internalize the guilt, and buy themselves

crap

> because it's what they feel they deserve. I had some friends in

college

> who qualified for food stamps, and said that they received glares

in the

> grocery store if they bought a roast or anything similar. She said

it

> was expected that they get bologna and white bread- really

expected.

>

> I have known lots of people on food stamps, and no one was selling

them

> right outside the door or anything like that.

>

> Desh

> ____________________________________________________________

> Click now for fast, effective bail bonds!

>

http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw2QoMGRnUvK12m1Elr8Wo

YozetgJFPRSP4ZuE8EisYwGz86i/

>

[Guest guest]

Huh, maybe that's a Philadelphia phenomenon. I always thought it took

real nerve, but then again, it seems that everyone does it, there at

least. I used to be a social worker and sometimes took people to pick

up their food stamps and saw the people hanging around the buildings

buying up the food stamps as the people came out. Of course, I worked

with people with substance abuse problems, so that may be the

difference.

>> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 2:53 PM, De Bell-Frantz <deshabell@...>

wrote:> >

> > I have known lots of people on food stamps, and no one was selling

them

> > right outside the door or anything like that.

> >

> > Desh

>

[Guest guest]

,

> I agree with some of the things you have brought up. I constantly

> get looks for buying healthy stuff like organic products from

> checkers and the people in line behind me. All is fine until i pull

> out my EBT card. One checker said to me i wish i could afford to eat

> like this. Oh no wonder you get food stamps. I kindly pointed out

> to her that the whole organic chicken i was buying was on sale and

> cheaper than the conventional kind in the case next to it.

You raise a good point. Many people consider organic foods and such an

extravagance, nice but not necessary. So if they see someone on food

stamps buying that stuff they get bent out of shape, especially if

they don't buy the stuff themselves. Even if you are not on food

stamps but someone who knows you are on a limited budget sees food

that they consider " expensive " (like meat, even chuck), you will get

" the look. "

> I also

> mentioned that just because we receive food stamps there is no reason

> why i should be feeding my family a bunch of processed foods so we

> could be sick all the time from lack of healthy food. I also told

> her that when one takes out the trash and sticks with whole fresh

> foods the cost is quite comparable.

For many folks you might as well be talking to a brick wall. They

don't " get it. "

> I don't feel guilty anymore buying helathy food......except when i

> buy some store kombucha because it is so expensive and really not

> necessary. But some days i crave it so bad i just have to buy one.

Easy to make as well. Why not just get a mushroom and make your own?

--

It doesn't matter how many people don't get it. What matters is how

many people do. If you have a strong informed opinion, don't keep it

to yourself. Try and help people and make the world a better place. If

you strive to do anything remotely interesting, just expect a small

percentage of the population to always find a way to take it

personally. F*ck 'em. There are no statues erected to critics.

- Ferriss

[Guest guest]

Yeah i run into a lot of brick walls . I am shocked at how blind

people are, then remember wow i was like them just a few years ago

myself. Except i was not as brainwashed and unquestioning i just did

not know where to begin to learn the truth. Now that i have i want to

enlighten others and let me tell you brick wall is an understatement

with plenty of them. Especially when it comes to the money issue and

how they can't afford it but yet they spend hundreds on boxed crap

with out batting an eye.

I am cosntantly looking around for new food sources looking for the

cheapest prices with out sacrificing quality. We work hard on

sourcing good quality food at affordable prices. It is not luck, nor

are we frivilous but you are right they see the health food store

prices and think we are being wasteful, and of all people a food

stamp recipient should nto be wasteful, right . We are part of co-

ops, milk groups, etc. we have taken the time to find all the avenues

for cheap good food. But people for the most part want what is easy

and do not want to put out the effort like shoe string budget whole

fooders . I continue to use those kinds of conversations, like

with the checker. Who knows i may finally talk to the right person,

one really wants to know. Not one who just wants to gripe about how

unfortunate life has been for them and use all the excuses as to why

they can't be healthier. Some people do want to they just do not

know how. If no one had taken the time to tell me, i would still be

one of them. Anyhow, i get tired of the brick walls and slamming my

head into them all the time. But i can't help it, i feel like i have

to spread the truth . Not to mention i am so excited that i know

where all these great places are to get great food for about as cheap

as boxed food prices!

I do have a couple of SCOBY's but waiting a week or longer to

brew.... we have 5 Kombucha drinkers in the family and nothing large

enough to make it in. I have been wondering if a 5 gallon food grade

plastic bucket would be okay, but i am thinking no way with the

leaching factor. Anyhow we can have a batch drank a lot faster than

making it. When i do buy it i am usually running errands all day,

thirsty, forgot my water bottle, etc. passing the cooler case up on a

long hectic day... drinking 'bucha (as my 3.5 yo calls it, well she

was 2 when she first started saying it) is like having a nice cold

beer to relax. We make water and juice kefirs daily as grains are

so much easier and quicker, that is what we usually drink. 'Bucha is

my release on days like that.

>

> ,

>> You raise a good point. Many people consider organic foods and

such an

> extravagance,

>

> > I also

> > mentioned that just because we receive food stamps there is no

reason

> > why i should be feeding my family a bunch of processed foods so we

> > could be sick all the time from lack of healthy food. >

> For many folks you might as well be talking to a brick wall. They

> don't " get it. "

>

> > I don't feel guilty anymore buying helathy food......except when i

> > buy some store kombucha because it is so expensive and really not

> > necessary. But some days i crave it so bad i just have to buy one.

>

> Easy to make as well. Why not just get a mushroom and make your own?

>

>

[Guest guest]

I had to hear about 15 people say bad things about GM foods before I

paid attention and found out how scary they are. Same thing for

fluoride. Sometimes it's like a tipping point for people - they have

to hear something a certain number of times from different sources

before it sinks in or they pay attention or it " clicks " or

something. So no, you're never wasting your time, you're just not

usually the last one, the one they listen to. But you're paving the

way.

I wonder if a social event would get more people involved. Around

here there's a cooking club for busy working people where they go to

a place and make a week or two weeks worth of food at once to freeze

for meals. They pay a small fortune for the " classes " . Many

churches have certified kitchens and ours at least lets anyone with a

good cause use their stuff for free.

> >

> > ,

> >> You raise a good point. Many people consider organic foods and

> such an

> > extravagance,

>

> >

> > > I also

> > > mentioned that just because we receive food stamps there is no

> reason

> > > why i should be feeding my family a bunch of processed foods so

we

> > > could be sick all the time from lack of healthy food. >

> > For many folks you might as well be talking to a brick wall. They

> > don't " get it. "

> >

> > > I don't feel guilty anymore buying helathy food......except

when i

> > > buy some store kombucha because it is so expensive and really

not

> > > necessary. But some days i crave it so bad i just have to buy

one.

> >

> > Easy to make as well. Why not just get a mushroom and make your

own?

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I think we can all kind of be like that, some are can be a lot worse

than others .

A friend and i were jsut talking about this today. How to get the

word out. How we can start some sort of grassroots type of thing

going here in our town. We are in a huge hippy area. It is like we

have 2 groups of people here the ones who don't care and the

vegan/veggies and convincing them is near impossible. not that we

are trying to but that it is so ingrained. She was veggie for many

yrs and quit and is very WAPF now. She is a holisitc vet and see's

first hand how bad nutrition really does affect us and the effects

are not seen until a few generations later, like WAP and Pottenger

have said. It all clicked after she found WAPF. Read their stuff

and realized dog food was processed food, they should eat raw food.

Then it clicked that the human diet is just as processed etc. Anyhow

we both feel passionate about nutrition but don't even know where to

begin to get through considering the groups around us.

--- In , " haecklers " <haecklers@...>

wrote:

>

> I had to hear about 15 people say bad things about GM foods before

I

>.

>

> I wonder if a social event would get more people involved. Around

> here there's a cooking club for busy working people where they go

to

> a place and make a week or two weeks worth of food at once to

freeze

> for meals. They pay a small fortune for the " classes " . Many

> churches have certified kitchens and ours at least lets anyone with

a

> good cause use their stuff for free.

>

>