Re: are vegetables healthy?

[Guest guest]

I've been reading Barry Groves' book Trick and Treat and I would say there are a

couple reasons you want to consume fruits and vegetables. Your body can convert

fat to glucose but not very much really. It would be good to consume a small

amount of carbs everyday. There is research showing that a 100g of carbs in a

given from various carbohydrate can dramatically reduce the strength of your

immune system. Starches are the best choice of fuel as it doesn't weaken the

immune system too much. If you have access to the materials to a bone broth you

can get most of your nutrients. I have compiled a list from Nourishing

Traditions vitamins and minerals to show what nutrients you can't get from fat

and meat/organs. I'll forward it to you. If anybody else would like it just

ask. My recommendation is also to read the Optimal Diet and maybe Homo Optimis

by Dr. JK www.homodiet.netfirms.com

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 28, 2009, at 12:58 PM, " lisa_mc_connell " <mmlisa2@...> wrote:

hi all,

i am just wondering how many i actually need in my diet? w/ talk of

anti-nutrients and food chemicals, plus the fact that I am trying to

eat locally, i just wonder which ones to eat and how much. I am also

totally revamping my diet to go gluten free and possibly casein free

and low grain, so what to eat? living in colorado, the only local

veggies I have right now are beets, onions, potatoes, turnips and

carrots and I am at the bottom of the barrel of those. so really, i

just have kimchee and some frozen pureed squash and frozen tomatoes. i

will look into freezing more veggies for next winter, though. but

that's it until probably sometime in may. for fruit, i have some local

frozen peaches and i have been buying apples and bananas at the store.

thanks!

lisa

[Guest guest]

> hi all,

>

> i am just wondering how many i actually need in my diet? w/ talk of

> anti-nutrients and food chemicals, plus the fact that I am trying to

> eat locally, i just wonder which ones to eat and how much. I am also

> totally revamping my diet to go gluten free and possibly casein free

> and low grain, so what to eat? living in colorado, the only local

> veggies I have right now are beets, onions, potatoes, turnips and

> carrots

I really like the Polish Dr. Kwasniewski, and he says minimal carbs

from root veg are the best. So you are doing great for this time of

year. His ammounts are, at most, take your ideal weight in pounds,

times .8 and that is grams of carb per day. Starch is best.

He says leafy veg are okay if you like animal fodder. This is why I

like this plan.

But you do have to have lots of sat fat to help with the glucose too.

[Guest guest]

Do you know if oranges & grapefruit can be frozen other than as juice or maybe

dehydrated? I have tons of oranges but most go to waste as I can't eat them all.

I have 9 orange trees and 2 grapefruit.

Bonnie

From: lisa_mc_connell <mmlisa2@...>

Subject: are vegetables healthy?

Date: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 3:58 PM

hi all,

i am just wondering how many i actually need in my diet? w/ talk of

anti-nutrients and food chemicals, plus the fact that I am trying to

eat locally, i just wonder which ones to eat and how much. I am also

totally revamping my diet to go gluten free and possibly casein free

and low grain, so what to eat? living in colorado, the only local

veggies I have right now are beets, onions, potatoes, turnips and

carrots and I am at the bottom of the barrel of those. so really, i

just have kimchee and some frozen pureed squash and frozen tomatoes. i

will look into freezing more veggies for next winter, though. but

that's it until probably sometime in may. for fruit, i have some local

frozen peaches and i have been buying apples and bananas at the store.

thanks!

lisa

[Guest guest]

In Fat of the Land, Steffenson says the first nations people didn't

consider fruits and vegetables " proper human food " . But of course we

don't know very much about the life expectancy or overall health of

these people. Although most reports indicated that without the

presence of " modern foods of commerce " , they were very healthy and

lived long lives. But we don't have health or longevity data that

meets modern standards of rigor.

Taubes in Good Calorie, Bad Calorie makes a strong case against

carbs. Most vegetables are mostly carbs. I would recommend you read

this book.

I would say the answer really depends on a couple of factors. If you

have a hard time controlling your weight, I would recommend a low-carb

diet to see if that helps. Many popular vegetables are high in carbs.

Taubes talks about some people who are so sensitive to carbs that

eating a single apple in a low-carb diet can stop their weight loss.

But of course this is an extreme example.

Also keep in mind that is appears that carbs increase our requirements

for certain vitamins like the Bs and C so it's important to realize

that if you are eating starchy veggies for the vitamins, that the

carbs themselves are an anti-nutrient of sorts.

The other concern I have about anything from the vegetable kingdom is

genistein. All plants contain sterols which are hormones. Some are

similar to estrogen, like genistein. Many plants CAN contain genistein

and some have rather high quantities. But there has not been a lot of

testing, although because of recent interest in genistein, more is

being published all the time. The reason I say " can " is that the

levels seem to vary by species, variety, crop, field, season, etc.

After soy, my next concern is peanuts. Some studies list 0 genistein

and other list amount equal to soy so I don't know what to believe

about peanuts. But I would avoid all legumes--yet another reason not

to be a vegetarian.

In my opinion humans are faunivores and the preferred food of most

humans throughout history has been meat. Grains, fruits and vegetables

are eaten for three main reasons: 1-sometimes they're all we have,

2-they taste delicious, and 3-carbs stimulate the appetite so that we

can have " cravings " for them. Even in modern times when a culture

becomes more affluent it usually increases it's consumption of meat.

I wouldn't worry to much about veggies. I would make sure you're

getting the big things right first. Pastured meats and eggs, raw

fermented dairy (fresh milk is high in carbs, is non-traditional and

is on our list of compromise foods).

Veggies do have lots of beneficial nutrients, taste delicious,

complement main foods like meat, eggs and dairy. But I would eat them

in moderation.

--- In , " cbrown2008 " <cbrown2008@...>

wrote:

>

> > hi all,

> >

> > i am just wondering how many i actually need in my diet? w/ talk of

> > anti-nutrients and food chemicals, plus the fact that I am trying to

> > eat locally, i just wonder which ones to eat and how much. I am also

> > totally revamping my diet to go gluten free and possibly casein free

> > and low grain, so what to eat? living in colorado, the only local

> > veggies I have right now are beets, onions, potatoes, turnips and

> > carrots

>

> I really like the Polish Dr. Kwasniewski, and he says minimal carbs

> from root veg are the best. So you are doing great for this time of

> year. His ammounts are, at most, take your ideal weight in pounds,

> times .8 and that is grams of carb per day. Starch is best.

>

> He says leafy veg are okay if you like animal fodder. This is why I

> like this plan.

>

> But you do have to have lots of sat fat to help with the glucose too.

>

[Guest guest]

Just to chime in, in the book " Potato " about the rise of potatoes as

a food crop, it said that the Irish lived off mainly potatoes and

milk and many of those who visited the country remarked on the

squalor of the living conditions, as they didn't have enough land to

support themselves very well, but also the extreme health and beauty

of the Irish as a people.

> >

> > > hi all,

> > >

> > > i am just wondering how many i actually need in my diet? w/

talk of

> > > anti-nutrients and food chemicals, plus the fact that I am

trying to

> > > eat locally, i just wonder which ones to eat and how much. I am

also

> > > totally revamping my diet to go gluten free and possibly casein

free

> > > and low grain, so what to eat? living in colorado, the only

local

> > > veggies I have right now are beets, onions, potatoes, turnips

and

> > > carrots

> >

> > I really like the Polish Dr. Kwasniewski, and he says minimal

carbs

> > from root veg are the best. So you are doing great for this time

of

> > year. His ammounts are, at most, take your ideal weight in

pounds,

> > times .8 and that is grams of carb per day. Starch is best.

> >

> > He says leafy veg are okay if you like animal fodder. This is why

I

> > like this plan.

> >

> > But you do have to have lots of sat fat to help with the glucose

too.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Do these authors provide evidence that you can completely go

without any carbs? Does your body learn to more efficient in it's

ability to convert to glucose.

The fact that you can't go without glucose, but you can go without

carbs maybe depending on what you eat - that is more of a basic

physiology thing. Just Google Images " metabolism krebs cycle " and

you'll find all kinds of explanations.

here's just one

http://images.google.com/imgres?

imgurl= & i

mgrefurl=http://www.bmb.leeds.ac.uk/teaching/icu3/lecture/14/index.htm

& usg=___ZUD2zXJ0NLkXhxCy58crVMXSOE= & h=500 & w=500 & sz=11 & hl=en & start=13 & t

bnid=cn6eCNbElU2u_M: & tbnh=130 & tbnw=130 & prev=/images%3Fq%3Dkrebs%

2Bcycle%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dstrict%26client%3Ddell-usuk%

26channel%3Dus%26ad%3Dw5

[Guest guest]

> I don't know... If you listen to

> some of the anti-carb people it makes it

> sound as if the carbs themselves cause disease

That's a good point - I must myself be careful to say, excess refined

carbs are the problem

> perhaps not as much as the USDA recommends

Yes, the definition of " low carb " is all over the place.

Is less than the USDA, low carb?

I see a growing presence in the blogosphere about lower carb for

general health and longevity especially.

Mark Sissons is a good example. He recently published a hilarious

article with pictures over the years, laughing at himself in an 80s

speedo. He talks about the metabolic " cost " of the high starch diet

being expensive for some people. He uses low carb for general

health, not fat loss on 100-120 g a day.

Body Composition Through the Years

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/body-composition-how-diet-and-exercise-

affect-muscle-mass-and-body-fat/

[Guest guest]

> I think it was who pointed out

> to me that the gestating body has a

> higher carb requirement.

Yes and baby has first dibs on the circulating blood sugar. So the ups

and downs are not what you're used to at first. It sure changes things!

I was a total goldfish-cracker fiend to keep that awful nausea at bay.

Knowing what I know now, it'd be potatoes and other roots instead.

Connie

[Guest guest]

> The point of low carb is to be in ketosis, at least to me. I

> don't do well in ketosis at all.

> I would call what I do " moderate " carb,

> and anything over the USDA " excess " carb.

Most low-carb-for-health advocates say they too are moderate carb, and

that the USDA is excess. I think only old-fashioned Atkins 1972 gives a

darn about ketosis - oh except for the " induction " period. Other plans

don't have that.

The level of ketosis is a continuum anyway. Thin people with low basal

insulin waking up after an overnight fast have the same level of

ketones as someone who is adapted to low carb, not ketogenic.

People can feel awful during the adaptation period. How long did you

try it? I've heard people say anything from weeks to months to adapt

from a diet of mostly carb to one of mostly fat. I felt awful on

Atkins " induction " too and never stuck it out. Also a fair amount of

Irish and German ethicity, and I do well on non-ketogenic low carb.

[Guest guest]

> I guess what I'm saying is " dietary guidelines "

> go pretty much out the window for pregnant women. <G>

too funny and how true.

[Guest guest]

> hi all,

>

> i am just wondering how many i actually need in my diet?

So let me play the devil's advocate here, you don't **need** any

vegetables in your diet. All you **need** is food from animals who

have eaten a good source of plant foods :-)

> w/ talk of

> anti-nutrients and food chemicals, plus the fact that I am trying to

> eat locally, i just wonder which ones to eat and how much.

If you are going to eat them, eat what is available this time of the

year and make sure you prepare them in a way that minimizes any risks

and maximizes the nutrition.

> I am also

> totally revamping my diet to go gluten free and possibly casein free

> and low grain, so what to eat?

What are your plans for being gluten free yet low grain?

> living in colorado, the only local

> veggies I have right now are beets, onions, potatoes, turnips and

> carrots and I am at the bottom of the barrel of those. so really, i

> just have kimchee and some frozen pureed squash and frozen tomatoes. i

> will look into freezing more veggies for next winter, though. but

> that's it until probably sometime in may

Well there you go. Eat what is available. I would keep the kimchee

consumption to the condiment level. Root vegetables are probably your

best choice most of the year any way.

> for fruit, i have some local

> frozen peaches and i have been buying apples and bananas at the store.

If you are worried about potential problematic compounds in foods look

no further than apples. Bananas seem less than optimal because you

can't buy them tree-ripened. Fruits, IMO, should definitely be eaten

seasonally (i.e. for just a small part of the year) because of the

type of sugar (fructose) they contain.

--

It doesn't matter how many people don't get it. What matters is how

many people do. If you have a strong informed opinion, don't keep it

to yourself. Try and help people and make the world a better place. If

you strive to do anything remotely interesting, just expect a small

percentage of the population to always find a way to take it

personally. F*ck 'em. There are no statues erected to critics.

- Ferriss

[Guest guest]

Those are all excellent sources of fruits and vegetables anyway. You can't go

wrong with onions.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 2, 2009, at 6:33 PM, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> hi all,

>

> i am just wondering how many i actually need in my diet?

So let me play the devil's advocate here, you don't **need** any

vegetables in your diet. All you **need** is food from animals who

have eaten a good source of plant foods :-)

> w/ talk of

> anti-nutrients and food chemicals, plus the fact that I am trying to

> eat locally, i just wonder which ones to eat and how much.

If you are going to eat them, eat what is available this time of the

year and make sure you prepare them in a way that minimizes any risks

and maximizes the nutrition.

> I am also

> totally revamping my diet to go gluten free and possibly casein free

> and low grain, so what to eat?

What are your plans for being gluten free yet low grain?

> living in colorado, the only local

> veggies I have right now are beets, onions, potatoes, turnips and

> carrots and I am at the bottom of the barrel of those. so really, i

> just have kimchee and some frozen pureed squash and frozen tomatoes. i

> will look into freezing more veggies for next winter, though. but

> that's it until probably sometime in may

Well there you go. Eat what is available. I would keep the kimchee

consumption to the condiment level. Root vegetables are probably your

best choice most of the year any way.

> for fruit, i have some local

> frozen peaches and i have been buying apples and bananas at the store.

If you are worried about potential problematic compounds in foods look

no further than apples. Bananas seem less than optimal because you

can't buy them tree-ripened. Fruits, IMO, should definitely be eaten

seasonally (i.e. for just a small part of the year) because of the

type of sugar (fructose) they contain.

--

It doesn't matter how many people don't get it. What matters is how

many people do. If you have a strong informed opinion, don't keep it

to yourself. Try and help people and make the world a better place. If

you strive to do anything remotely interesting, just expect a small

percentage of the population to always find a way to take it

personally. F*ck 'em. There are no statues erected to critics.

- Ferriss

[Guest guest]

I'm reading all of this information about increasing meats and dairy

and reducing plant foods, and I have one question. What about issues

of acidity/alkalinity? That type of diet seems highly acidic, and I'm

wondering how the body copes with this...

Thoughts?

Buddy

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Holt <danthemanholt@...> wrote:

> Those are all excellent sources of fruits and vegetables anyway. You can't

> go wrong with onions.

>

> Sent from my iPhone

>

> On Mar 2, 2009, at 6:33 PM, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

>

>

>

>> hi all,

>>

>> i am just wondering how many i actually need in my diet?

>

> So let me play the devil's advocate here, you don't **need** any

> vegetables in your diet. All you **need** is food from animals who

> have eaten a good source of plant foods :-)

>

>> w/ talk of

>> anti-nutrients and food chemicals, plus the fact that I am trying to

>> eat locally, i just wonder which ones to eat and how much.

>

> If you are going to eat them, eat what is available this time of the

> year and make sure you prepare them in a way that minimizes any risks

> and maximizes the nutrition.

>

>> I am also

>> totally revamping my diet to go gluten free and possibly casein free

>> and low grain, so what to eat?

>

> What are your plans for being gluten free yet low grain?

>

>> living in colorado, the only local

>> veggies I have right now are beets, onions, potatoes, turnips and

>> carrots and I am at the bottom of the barrel of those. so really, i

>> just have kimchee and some frozen pureed squash and frozen tomatoes. i

>> will look into freezing more veggies for next winter, though. but

>> that's it until probably sometime in may

>

> Well there you go. Eat what is available. I would keep the kimchee

> consumption to the condiment level. Root vegetables are probably your

> best choice most of the year any way.

>

>> for fruit, i have some local

>> frozen peaches and i have been buying apples and bananas at the store.

>

> If you are worried about potential problematic compounds in foods look

> no further than apples. Bananas seem less than optimal because you

> can't buy them tree-ripened. Fruits, IMO, should definitely be eaten

> seasonally (i.e. for just a small part of the year) because of the

> type of sugar (fructose) they contain.

>

>

> --

> It doesn't matter how many people don't get it. What matters is how

> many people do. If you have a strong informed opinion, don't keep it

> to yourself. Try and help people and make the world a better place. If

> you strive to do anything remotely interesting, just expect a small

> percentage of the population to always find a way to take it

> personally. F*ck 'em. There are no statues erected to critics.

>

> - Ferriss

>

>

[Guest guest]

Raw milk is alkaline forming. Certain minerals, such as Calcium and

Phosphorus, typically high in the dairy based diets are great acid buffers.

-Lana

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Buddy A. Touchinsky, D.C. <

dr.touchinsky@...> wrote:

> I'm reading all of this information about increasing meats and dairy

> and reducing plant foods, and I have one question. What about issues

> of acidity/alkalinity? That type of diet seems highly acidic, and I'm

> wondering how the body copes with this...

>

> Thoughts?

>

> Buddy

[Guest guest]

Thanks. I just searched the WAPF website, and I see Price seems

dismissive of the acid/alkaline theory.

I'll have to do more research and see where I stand. Anectdotally,

those patient towards the alkaline side are generally healthier,

although there may be other factors involved in this observation.

Buddy

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote:

> Raw milk is alkaline forming. Certain minerals, such as Calcium and

> Phosphorus, typically high in the dairy based diets are great acid buffers.

> -Lana

>

> On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Buddy A. Touchinsky, D.C. <

> dr.touchinsky@...> wrote:

>

>> I'm reading all of this information about increasing meats and dairy

>> and reducing plant foods, and I have one question. What about issues

>> of acidity/alkalinity? That type of diet seems highly acidic, and I'm

>> wondering how the body copes with this...

>>

>> Thoughts?

>>

>> Buddy

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, WAPF doesn't seem to agree with the acid/alkaline thing... But then

again, Price did strongly recommend phosphorus (either as dairy or lentils)

so my thinking is that there's a point in which as long as adequate buffers

are obtained, acid/alkaline food doesn't necessarily matter.

But, that said, often people who have followed the SAD diet for generations

have compromised their health status far beyond what one generation of

natives on an inferior diet has done. Their livers are depleted of Vitamins

A (stores which should last a lifetime and be passed on in the womb) and Bs,

their kidneys are overburdened removing toxins, their guts don't assimilate

correctly (reducing or even eliminating glutamine conversion to citrulline,

and therefore reducing kidney arginine production) so dietary acidity

becomes a lot more important, IMHO.

-Lana

" There is nothing more useful than sun and salt. " - Latin proverb

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Buddy A. Touchinsky, D.C. <

dr.touchinsky@...> wrote:

> Thanks. I just searched the WAPF website, and I see Price seems

> dismissive of the acid/alkaline theory.

>

> I'll have to do more research and see where I stand. Anectdotally,

> those patient towards the alkaline side are generally healthier,

> although there may be other factors involved in this observation.

>

> Buddy

>

> On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...>

> wrote:

> > Raw milk is alkaline forming. Certain minerals, such as Calcium and

> > Phosphorus, typically high in the dairy based diets are great acid

> buffers.

> > -Lana

>

[Guest guest]

Your body regulates it's own levels. People that have lots of sugar will have

the most imbalances. If you have high levels of protein you just poop it back

out. Getting enough calcium, magnesium, potassium with the right balance of

phosphorous will help too. 1600-2000mg of calcium, 2-5g of potassium, and

somewhere around 800mg of magnesium. Potatoes, dulse, chard, " raw " milk, kiwi,

pineapple, are all excellent sources. Trace minerals such as sundried Celtic

seasalt is great.

It's more to do with food quality and minerals moreso than going by how acidic

or alkaline a food is.

You'll only be having 4-8oz of lean meat/organs a day for protein. Carbs will

be low but minerals should be high. You'll vary your fat. You'd have high fat.

Can somebody copy and paste the list I compiled?

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 2, 2009, at 7:26 PM, " Buddy A. Touchinsky, D.C. "

<dr.touchinsky@...> wrote:

I'm reading all of this information about increasing meats and dairy

and reducing plant foods, and I have one question. What about issues

of acidity/alkalinity? That type of diet seems highly acidic, and I'm

wondering how the body copes with this...

Thoughts?

Buddy

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Holt <danthemanholt@...> wrote:

> Those are all excellent sources of fruits and vegetables anyway. You can't

> go wrong with onions.

>

> Sent from my iPhone

>

> On Mar 2, 2009, at 6:33 PM, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

>

>

>

>> hi all,

>>

>> i am just wondering how many i actually need in my diet?

>

> So let me play the devil's advocate here, you don't **need** any

> vegetables in your diet. All you **need** is food from animals who

> have eaten a good source of plant foods :-)

>

>> w/ talk of

>> anti-nutrients and food chemicals, plus the fact that I am trying to

>> eat locally, i just wonder which ones to eat and how much.

>

> If you are going to eat them, eat what is available this time of the

> year and make sure you prepare them in a way that minimizes any risks

> and maximizes the nutrition.

>

>> I am also

>> totally revamping my diet to go gluten free and possibly casein free

>> and low grain, so what to eat?

>

> What are your plans for being gluten free yet low grain?

>

>> living in colorado, the only local

>> veggies I have right now are beets, onions, potatoes, turnips and

>> carrots and I am at the bottom of the barrel of those. so really, i

>> just have kimchee and some frozen pureed squash and frozen tomatoes. i

>> will look into freezing more veggies for next winter, though. but

>> that's it until probably sometime in may

>

> Well there you go. Eat what is available. I would keep the kimchee

> consumption to the condiment level. Root vegetables are probably your

> best choice most of the year any way.

>

>> for fruit, i have some local

>> frozen peaches and i have been buying apples and bananas at the store.

>

> If you are worried about potential problematic compounds in foods look

> no further than apples. Bananas seem less than optimal because you

> can't buy them tree-ripened. Fruits, IMO, should definitely be eaten

> seasonally (i.e. for just a small part of the year) because of the

> type of sugar (fructose) they contain.

>

>

> --

> It doesn't matter how many people don't get it. What matters is how

> many people do. If you have a strong informed opinion, don't keep it

> to yourself. Try and help people and make the world a better place. If

> you strive to do anything remotely interesting, just expect a small

> percentage of the population to always find a way to take it

> personally. F*ck 'em. There are no statues erected to critics.

>

> - Ferriss

>

>

[Guest guest]

> But even unrefined carbs can be a problem if they are not properly

> prepared, whether that means super fresh, ripe, soaked, fermented,

> cooked, lime processed, or what have you.

Yes I thought of that as soon as I pressed " send " .

Some of the unhealthiest people I know are the " breadatarian "

vegetarians - tons of grains.

> I also see the tendency towards " this is the only way or **the**

> optimal way " which is really just

> the opposite of what he have ahd all

> these years from the high carb folks.

I agree and I've come to hate it.

Yellow journalism, shoddy reporting, mindless regurgitating of press

releases the researchers should be ashamed of putting out, and sloppy

blogging - plenty of blame to go around, oh well.

> Hey, I already posted that here, LOL!

Oh! sorry I missed it. Did you mention the neon speedo?

[Guest guest]

> I wonder about the Atkins " induction " folks. Not to say you did it

> this way but from what I have seen of the way many people have tried

> " induction " with al the funky fats, lean meats, and other

> questiionable (though low carb) food. Its no wonder they feel as bad

> as they do.

It must be my day to agree with you.

shiver me timbers at the fake foods and lean meats and questionable

foods that seem to be okay in some circles.

My only no-no was not getting enough fat (naked refined fat grosses me

out. Well except butter on potatoes) Not enough porterhouses I guess.

And even eggs, I had a limit. I definitely didn't give enough

transition time and knowing what I know now, I would never counsel

myself to do such a sudden metabolic gear change anyway ( " induction " ).

[Guest guest]

> I'm reading all of this information about increasing meats and dairy

> and reducing plant foods, and I have one question. What about issues

> of acidity/alkalinity? That type of diet seems highly acidic, and I'm

> wondering how the body copes with this...

If you're talking about JK and the Optimal Diet, he doesn't advocate

increasing meats and dairy, but keeping them as low as possible. That

cuts down on that source of acidity. Fats are neutral.

Then when you put in root vegetables and leaves for the recommended

carbs (yes, some carbs are recommended) it's easy to balance the

acid/base numbers.

If you're talking about PRAL scores, that is. I don't know anything

about ayurvedic or whatever other system for deciding what is acid and

what is base.

Grains are some of the most acid things there are so taking them out is

a net gain for the school of thought that believes in acid balance.

Connie

[Guest guest]

It looks like he recommends 4-8 eggs a day, 150g pig organs a week, olive oil,

potatoes, dairy, pig meat, some fruit, and good quality varied veggies.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 2, 2009, at 10:15 PM, " cbrown2008 " <cbrown2008@...> wrote:

> I'm reading all of this information about increasing meats and dairy

> and reducing plant foods, and I have one question. What about issues

> of acidity/alkalinity? That type of diet seems highly acidic, and I'm

> wondering how the body copes with this...

If you're talking about JK and the Optimal Diet, he doesn't advocate

increasing meats and dairy, but keeping them as low as possible. That

cuts down on that source of acidity. Fats are neutral.

Then when you put in root vegetables and leaves for the recommended

carbs (yes, some carbs are recommended) it's easy to balance the

acid/base numbers.

If you're talking about PRAL scores, that is. I don't know anything

about ayurvedic or whatever other system for deciding what is acid and

what is base.

Grains are some of the most acid things there are so taking them out is

a net gain for the school of thought that believes in acid balance.

Connie

[Guest guest]

here's a properly prepared pasta

http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/sourdough_egg_noodles.html

>

>

>

>

>

> Why do you feel obligated to eat ice cream with sugar and commercial

applesauce?

>

> michael, sorry i meant i sometimes feel obligated to eat lots of greens and

veggies and

fruit and " healthy whole grains " --the whole grains i don't do. i have only had

cravings for

the ice cream and applesauce. and i am sure it's b/c i am not eating enough

protein and

fat at regular intervals.

>

>

> Why does your starch have to be in the form of pasta (and I imagine

> store bought improperly prepared pasta at that)?

>

> well, for whatever reason things like homemade macaroni and cheese or

fettuccine

alfredo are what i want more than potatoes. so i use rice pasta--the Tinkyada

brand that

is supposed to be better than the rest. i don't really know what " properly

prepared pasta "

is or if it even exists.

>

> i am a true perfectionist and it's hard for me not to be able to eat what i

always

imagined i would when i was pregnant for the second time. (the first was a

disaster) and i

am trying as hard as i can to eat the very best foods, but it's been really

hard, much harder

than i expected.

>

> amanda

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Especially since they ate massive quantities of potatoes, adult males eating

15-20 pounds

per day if I remember correctly. The Irish mercenary soldiers had taller stature

and would

not fit in French soldier uniforms, for instance. Their diet--milk and potatoes,

with only

very occasional bits of fish--was superior to the British and upper class diet

of tea and

bread.

>

> > perhaps that was more due to the milk?

> >

[Guest guest]

> > I honestly question the usefulness of the low carb diet for

> > those who are not trying to lose weight.

> >

> > -Lana

> >

Do you question its usefulness for the Inuit/Eskimos?

Mike

[Guest guest]

This is actually from . He wanted to me post this to NN since

apparently he can't cut and paste from his i-phone.

______

The Raw Meat Carnivore based Optimal Diet revision

Based on this bone broth is essential to our health. Dr. JK swears

that one can cure himself of many degenerative diseases and have

optimal health with fat and bone marrow broth.

www.homodiet.netfirms.com

Take your height in centimeters and subtract 100. Add 10% if you have

a big frame and detract 10% if you have a small frame. That is your

protein intake. 2.5-3.5X is your fat intake. Have 50-100mg of carbs

a day or an equal ratio to protein. Have mostly starches. Have raw

meat/fat and eat your plant carbs cooked/fermented/raw. Avoid gluten.

Depending on the period our ancestors cooked their vegetables,

fruits, starches, or fermented them. If not they would consume very

small quanitites. There is recorded evidence that the homo sapien's

species brain was 8% bigger some 50,000-40,000 years ago. when

we had an all raw animal meat/fat diet. During this period we

consumed nuts, fruits, and veggies raw in small quantities. Alot of

the time they weren't even available in various regions due to an ice

age. Athropologists look back to what they believe to be the orginal

place our species started out at, the African savanah. In this hot

climate there were very few plant sources our species could actually

consume. We depended on ruminant species that ate grass and insect,

eggs. Our brains had decreased by 8%

10,000 years ago when we got into agriculture and consumed a

considerable amount more plant sources. Our brains had decreased 3%

30,000 years ago probably because man started eating more plants

realizing they were more bioavailable by cooking them. Our stomachs

weren't really made to break down plants that efficiently

The best source of nutrients are ruminant animals such as the cow.

Have between 4-8 eggs a day, preferably pastured. Have an ounce of

liver a day or dessicated liver. Have a mutli organ such as

www.drrons.com organ delight or if you have access have the real stuff

which is 100X better. Have a pair of cow or buffallo testicles once

a month or take dr ron's

supplements. Brown recommends buffallo testicles. He reps

200 dumbell presses on each arm at 60 years old. He states his

strength dramatically increases after consuming " rocky mountain

oysters. "

Have a 1/2 tspn of butter oil and fclo from www.greenpastures.com

It's better to get all you omega 3s and fatty acids from pastured

grassfed cows. It's better if eating raw but try not to cook over

medium rare if you want to cook it. Gelatin helps produce hydrophibic

acid which is destroyed when cooking meat Have eggs sunny side up or

seperate the white from the

egg, eat the yolk raw and cook the white. Aajonus Vanderplonitz says

his raw eating helped him develop a built physique and he hasn't

touched a weight in 19 years. You don't need nearly the level of most

vitamins and minerals if you reduce your carb intake.

Most nutrients can be obtained from

The following animal sources:

Raw Butter fat, tallow, bone broth, raw milk, oysters, grassfed

liver, cow testicles, muscle meats of cow, clams, cartilage, joint

tissue, fermented unpasteurized hard cheese, shell fish, fish, High

vitamin butter oil, fermented cod liver oil, Chicken and cow feet in

broth for gelatin and silicone.

Here's is a list of minerals you won't be getting enough of if you

only consume animal foods.

Other sources or information to help

Clarify:

Pottasium: vegetables, especially dulse, can also be obtained from

milk and meat/organs but not nearly as high a quanitity. Maine

seaweed company sells dulse but it appears to have flouride in it.

Don't know why. Beets and potatoes are excellent sources too. Kiwi

and pineapple great sources.

Manganese: butterfat, dairy, eggs, meat in trace amounts

Germanium: garlic, ginseng, mushrooms, onions, and the herbs aloe

vera, comfrey and suma

K2: hard cheese, liver, natto all have different mk forms of k2.

It's argued mk4, concentrated in grassfed liver and grassfed

centrifuged butter, are the best sources. www.greenpastures.com

Vitamin P: peppers, grapes, buckwheat, and white peal of citrus

fruits, seabuckthorn berry

Vitamin E: found in various foods but wheat germ oil is the most

potent source also containing vitamin F. It is said the vitamin F

is the more potent of the two antioxidants and is protected by

vitamin E. Seabuckthorn berry

Cytokinins: Buko juice (green coconut water.

Vitamin C: can be found in the stomach tissue of animals and in

various fruits. The best sources are camu camu, amla berry, and

seabuckthorn berry. I would rather consume the whole fruit rather

than a liquid or a powder. If I were to do this I would want it to

be rich in added digestive enzymes and probiotics.

B15 and B17:grains, seeds, grasses, sprouts, buckwheat, legumes,

fruit seeds. Apples and apple seeds are a great source. Macademia

nuts are great too.

Oleic Acid: beef tallow. Make pemmican that is 20% protein muscle

meat and 80% fat from beef tallow. Have tallow as 20-60% of your

fat consumption.

Enzymes: 1tblspn of raw bee pollen a day and 1tspn of raw bee honey

with each meal, grapes, figs, avacados, dates, bananas, papaya,

mangos, kiwi, pineapple, unrefined olive oil and other unrefined oils.

Probiotics: culture milk with kefir to make it more absorbable.

Depending on what region you are from this may be the best way to do

it.

Fermented foods: Kimchi, kombucha, beet kvass, and kefir raw milk are good.

Silica Hydride and negative hydrogen ion: glacial milk and microhydrin

Beta carotene: three organic/biodynamic carrots a day

Resvratrol: Glass of aged quality red wine a day. Red grapes. May

or may not be beneficial.

And various other herbs and antioxidants that do misc.

Gelatin/lemon squeeze/quality fermented apple cider vinegar/white

wine/raw butter mix helps with the absorption of nutrients in bone

broth and joint health

Carbohydrates: Starches are the optimal source of plant carbs.

Research has shown any other type of carb literally dramatically

decreases the strength of the immune system. Various plant sugars

reduced the immune system by 50% at 100g of intake and lasted for five

hours. Have only one serving of fruit a day. Vegetables are ok

because they are low carb and nutrient dense. Have apples, dulse,

root vegetables, red cabbage, beets, buko juice, acid porrige*

(starch), sprouted oat porrige* (starch), noni juice, pineapple,

papaya, watermelon, kiwi, Berlin sourdough spelt bread* (starch), raw

milk/colostrum, glucose from animal tissue, potatoes (starch), and

various other vegetables/fruits etc. *contains gluten. May want to

avoid.

Other nutrients: GLA(black currant seed oil) some people who grew up

near the coast may need, antioxidants,herbs, and trace minerals such

as sundried Celtic seasalt.

Any thoughts. This was kinda cut up from the book Nourishing

Traditions. This would support the raw food optimal diet I am putting

together.

Dulse may be too high in Iodine. So other sources of potassium may

be preferred. You may only want small amounts of iodine such as in

mcgs rather than mgs. I read from one site that since the flouride

from dulse is naturally occuring it is healthy. Some people claim that

150mcg of iodine is all you need where as others say over 12mg of

iodine/iodide in combination is more optimal. Iodide/Iodine is

concentrated in seaweed and shellfish. It's arguable that it is

best derived in shellfish as man does better to let the animals first

predigest his nutrients. Some say man needs high quanitities

because our species originally lived near the coast and ate shellfish.

Others say, including the bible, that shellfish and seaweed are to be

avoided. Leviticus literally states that nothing is to be consumed

from the water that does not contain scales. Seaweed concentrates

flouride, b12 analogues, iodine/iodide, to ward off other creatures

from eating it. Maybe it is poisonous in higher quantities. What do

you think? This may mean we may want to get our iodine intake from

raw milk, chicken, and scaley fish instead.