Re: How destructive is mild pasteurization?

[Guest guest]

We have a local farm that sells their low-heat, non-homogenized whole milk at

Whole Foods. I've tried it twice when I needed some to hold me over and I

couldn't get to my dairy. I'd be curious about that, too. Mainly, I wanted it

for my coffee, and all the cream WF had for sale was ultra-pasteurized, and I

knew low-heat pasteurized was superior to ultra!

Kathy

---- ccmg1234 <ccmg5678@...> wrote:

=============

I drink Straus brand non-homogenized, whole milk. On their site they say that

they pasteurize their milk at 170 degrees for 19 seconds. Even though that's

probably a mild pasteurization, I'm sure it kills off many or most beneficial

bacteria, vitamins and enzymes. But since the temperature and time are far

below ultrapasteurization levels aren't some beneficial vitamins, bacteria and

enzymes able to remain intact?

[Guest guest]

I believe enzymes and bacteria are destroyed at 110 degrees farenheight.

Yours Truly,

Dan Holt

On Mar 26, 2009, at 1:59 PM, " ccmg1234 " <ccmg5678@...> wrote:

I drink Straus brand non-homogenized, whole milk. On their site they say that

they pasteurize their milk at 170 degrees for 19 seconds. Even though that's

probably a mild pasteurization, I'm sure it kills off many or most beneficial

bacteria, vitamins and enzymes. But since the temperature and time are far below

ultrapasteurization levels aren't some beneficial vitamins, bacteria and enzymes

able to remain intact?

[Guest guest]

> I'd be curious about that, too.

> Kathy

Me three. Tillamook Dairy in Oregon pasteurizes their Swiss cheese for 15

seconds. They told me over the phone that they can't make this type of aged

cheese otherwise. So something must survive.

Connie

[Guest guest]

On 3/26/09, ccmg1234 <ccmg5678@...> wrote:

> I drink Straus brand non-homogenized, whole milk. On their site they say

> that they pasteurize their milk at 170 degrees for 19 seconds. Even though

> that's probably a mild pasteurization, I'm sure it kills off many or most

> beneficial bacteria, vitamins and enzymes. But since the temperature and

> time are far below ultrapasteurization levels aren't some beneficial

> vitamins, bacteria and enzymes able to remain intact?

There iare nutrients and other beneficial compounds left in the milk,

but there is nothing special about this milk. It is high-temperature

short-time (HTST) pasteurized. Something claiming " low temperature "

or " vat pasteurized " is probably classically pasteurized. The

experiments showing dramatic reduction in the quality of milk were

done with classic pasteurization before HTST even existed, never mind

UHT, which even now is not the norm. HTST is the norm. You are

drinking normal milk.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Connie,

> Me three. Tillamook Dairy in Oregon pasteurizes their Swiss cheese for 15

> seconds. They told me over the phone that they can't make this type of aged

> cheese otherwise. So something must survive.

Why? Don't they add the culture? They use HTST pasteurization for

the precise reason of killing the bacteria, do they not, so that the

culture they add will be dominant?

Chris

[Guest guest]

> Why? Don't they add the culture? They use HTST pasteurization for

> the precise reason of killing the bacteria, do they not, so that the

> culture they add will be dominant?

>

> Chris

I didn't ask. Want me to?

[Guest guest]

Connie,

> Me three. Tillamook Dairy in Oregon pasteurizes their Swiss cheese for 15

> seconds. They told me over the phone that they can't make this type of aged

> cheese otherwise. So something must survive.

I wonder why. I have bought raw milk swiss cheese in the past. Perhaps

they are referring to the law that doesn't allow raw milk cheeses that

aren't aged beyond 60 days?

--

" Forget about reading Austrian Economics. In fact, forget about

reading in general. I finally realize what is the fastest, surest way

to learn real economics: it's listening to NPR (National Public

Radio). All you have to do is realize that EVERY SINGLE THING their

radio hosts and guests say about economics is 100% FALSE--then you'll

automatically learn what are real economic truths. "

Kramer

[Guest guest]

> I wonder why. I have bought raw milk swiss cheese in the past. Perhaps

> they are referring to the law that doesn't allow raw milk cheeses that

> aren't aged beyond 60 days?

>

Raw milk anything is illegal for retail sale in Oregon. Grrrr.

I can buy imported raw milk Swiss cheese from Europe though.

This really burns me.

From Tillamook's web site

" Many pregnant women have shared with us their concerns about Tillamook Cheddar

Cheese not being pasteurized. The issue of concern is infection from the

microorganism Listeria monocytogenes, which is uncontrolled in raw milk cheeses

and can grow to infection causing levels. I want to assure you that Tillamook

Cheese is not made from raw milk and is safe for pregnant women. Both

pasteurization and the heat-shock process destroy this organism. We understand

and share these concerns for your baby's health.

Most Tillamook Cheddar and Swiss Cheeses are made from " heat-shocked " milk, as

the natural enzymes in milk, essential for the development of the Tillamook

brand's unique flavor, suffer from full pasteurization, where the milk is heated

to 161°F and held at that temperature for 15 seconds. Milk intended for

cheddaring is heated to 152°F and held for 30 seconds at that temperature.

Because of this process, we are required to cure our cheddar and Swiss cheeses

for a minimum of 60 days prior to marketing. The length of time cheddar is held

for aging determines whether it will be sold as medium (60 days), vintage white

medium (100 days), sharp (minimum of 9 months), extra sharp (minimum of 15

months) and vintage white extra sharp (minimum of 2 years). Tillamook garlic

white, chili garlic, smoked black pepper white cheddars, Horseradish, Hot

Habanero, monterey jack, colby, colby jack, pepper jack, reduced fat medium

cheddar, reduced fat monterey jack, and mozzarella are made from pasteurized

milk

"

Connie

[Guest guest]

Connie,

> Raw milk anything is illegal for retail sale in Oregon. Grrrr.

> I can buy imported raw milk Swiss cheese from Europe though.

> This really burns me.

>

> From Tillamook's web site

>

> Most Tillamook Cheddar and Swiss Cheeses are made from " heat-shocked " milk,

> as the natural enzymes in milk, essential for the development of the

> Tillamook brand's unique flavor, suffer from full pasteurization, where the

> milk is heated to 161°F and held at that temperature for 15 seconds. Milk

> intended for cheddaring is heated to 152°F and held for 30 seconds at that

> temperature.

>

> Because of this process, we are required to cure our cheddar and Swiss

> cheeses for a minimum of 60 days prior to marketing.

Unfortunately, while Tillamook might not label this cheese " raw " , IIRC

cheese that is heated below full pasteurization the Federales allow to

be called raw, which explains why Tillamook has to cure this cheese

for a minimum of 60 days before marketing, since according to the

Federales all " raw " cheeses must be aged for 60 days, even though this

is not how most of understand the meaning of raw.

Cheese is like honey, if you want a truly raw product, you better ask

your producer (including those from Europe) a lot of pointed

questions.

You are in Oregon, why not just cross the border to Washington from

time to time and bring home some true raw milk cheese (or even mail

order them). I plan on making a trip to Canada in the not to far

distant future and bringing home some soft raw milk cheeses (and some

contraband Cubans) which are illegal throughout the US.

--

" Forget about reading Austrian Economics. In fact, forget about

reading in general. I finally realize what is the fastest, surest way

to learn real economics: it's listening to NPR (National Public

Radio). All you have to do is realize that EVERY SINGLE THING their

radio hosts and guests say about economics is 100% FALSE--then you'll

automatically learn what are real economic truths. "

Kramer

[Guest guest]

>

> I believe enzymes and bacteria are destroyed at 110 degrees farenheight.

Not all enzymes. For instance, papain is destroyed at around 185f.

[Guest guest]

Like most things in life, it's far more complicated.

Checkout this abstract, it will give you some idea of the amount of variability

in enzyme resistance to heat:

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN & cpsidt=1468540

Basically, each specific enzyme has a unique heat-resistant characteristic and

it's not just the heat, but the duration that is important.

>

> I drink Straus brand non-homogenized, whole milk. On their site they say that

they pasteurize their milk at 170 degrees for 19 seconds. Even though that's

probably a mild pasteurization, I'm sure it kills off many or most beneficial

bacteria, vitamins and enzymes. But since the temperature and time are far below

ultrapasteurization levels aren't some beneficial vitamins, bacteria and enzymes

able to remain intact?

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I personally do not think milk should be heated period. I was referring to

plant produce instead. I think animal flesh and dairy is healthiest raw if

preserved under the right conditions.

Yours Truly,

Dan Holt

On Apr 3, 2009, at 7:58 PM, " paulsonntagericson " <paulsonntagericson@...>

wrote:

Like most things in life, it's far more complicated.

Checkout this abstract, it will give you some idea of the amount of variability

in enzyme resistance to heat:

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN & cpsidt=1468540

Basically, each specific enzyme has a unique heat-resistant characteristic and

it's not just the heat, but the duration that is important.

>

> I drink Straus brand non-homogenized, whole milk. On their site they say that

they pasteurize their milk at 170 degrees for 19 seconds. Even though that's

probably a mild pasteurization, I'm sure it kills off many or most beneficial

bacteria, vitamins and enzymes. But since the temperature and time are far below

ultrapasteurization levels aren't some beneficial vitamins, bacteria and enzymes

able to remain intact?

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't even know why I posted that comment regarding milk. I must have been

thinking of vegetables for some reason.

Yours Truly,

Dan Holt

On Apr 3, 2009, at 7:58 PM, " paulsonntagericson " <paulsonntagericson@...>

wrote:

Like most things in life, it's far more complicated.

Checkout this abstract, it will give you some idea of the amount of variability

in enzyme resistance to heat:

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN & cpsidt=1468540

Basically, each specific enzyme has a unique heat-resistant characteristic and

it's not just the heat, but the duration that is important.

>

> I drink Straus brand non-homogenized, whole milk. On their site they say that

they pasteurize their milk at 170 degrees for 19 seconds. Even though that's

probably a mild pasteurization, I'm sure it kills off many or most beneficial

bacteria, vitamins and enzymes. But since the temperature and time are far below

ultrapasteurization levels aren't some beneficial vitamins, bacteria and enzymes

able to remain intact?

>

>

>

>

>