Re: Diet for IBS & cervical dysplasia

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Welcome to the group.

> My name is ...I just joined this group over the weekend because I need

> some advice on how to balance my nutritional needs between 2 different

> health issues.

>

> I was dx with IBS-C in college. I recently found the site

> www.helpforibs.com, where the author suggests lots of soluble fiber for IBS.

> The recommendation is for lots of rice, pasta, sweet potatoes, bananas,

> etc., & to be very careful with adding insoluble fiber foods (raw produce,

> whole grains, etc.) She also recommends no dairy, coffee, alcohol, & other

> known GI irritants. I loosely followed her reccomendations for a while with

> pretty good success. Then I discovered I have high grade cervical dysplasia.

>

> I did a ton of research & decided I want to treat the dysplasia naturally,

> using supplements & diet changes. So I totally cut out the coffee & alchol,

> replaced them with green tea, & started eating more fruits & veggies,

> especially cruciferious veggies, eating less meat (esp red meat), & avoiding

> refined sugar & flour (the constant prodding & scoping has caused recurrent

> yeast issues). I was feeling good about this, until the IBS flared up again.

> Seems there's something to the soluble fiber thing after all.

>

> So, now what to do? I just don't know enough about nutrition I guess to

> figure out a diet that's beneficial for both issues. Any advice would be

> appreciated.

IMO, you should go back to your original diet with a few caveats.

starchy tubers: yams, sweet potatoes, properly prepared potatoes, cassava,

white not brown rice

ditch the pasta unless its made from a starchy tuber

fruit: bananas, pineapple, papaya, basically any tropical fruit. Just

make sure its in season and ripe. If the fruit is not in season and

ripe don't eat it.

Your **saturated** fat content should come in around 20% (or more!) of

your diet in terms of calories. I know that sounds like a lot. Its at

least 10 percentage points higher than the average western diet. So

you are probably going to have to up that. It is easy to do with

coconut, the milk, not the meat.

Eating less red meat is bogus. Your PUFA content needs to come way

down while still getting the needed nutrients. Red meat helps with

that where white meat tends to be high in PUFA's unless it is a lean

fish.

I would add some herbs. Red Clover, Echinacea plus, and Gingko Biloba,

all ready available from the Herb Doctor in tincture form which is the

way you want to take them.

https://web0.herbdoc.com/index.php? & c=1

Ignore his vegan screeching. When it comes to herbal formulas he is top notch.

Red Clover is specific for cancer, Echinacea Plus overall is an immune

booster, and Gingko Biloba will help starve any cell that decides to

build its own nutritional support system (i.e. feed off glucose) by

becoming cancerous.

Hope that helps,

--

" Forget about reading Austrian Economics. In fact, forget about

reading in general. I finally realize what is the fastest, surest way

to learn real economics: it's listening to NPR (National Public

Radio). All you have to do is realize that EVERY SINGLE THING their

radio hosts and guests say about economics is 100% FALSE--then you'll

automatically learn what are real economic truths. "

Kramer

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks for your quick reply! I may need to back up a little though & get some

more basic information about " native nutrition " . I'm fairly ignorant of most

of the terms & concepts, other than reading the welcome page of this group. And

I'm sure you all know that it's radically different from what I've been told to

do for pretty much all my life. ; )

Also, some questions about your suggestions... What is the proper way to cook

potatoes? What's the importance of tropical fruits being ripe & in season?

How do I go about incorporating coconut milk into my diet? What is PUFA

content?

Thanks for your patience!

>

> Hi ,

>

> Welcome to the group.

>

> IMO, you should go back to your original diet with a few caveats.

>

> starchy tubers: yams, sweet potatoes, properly prepared potatoes, cassava,

> white not brown rice

> ditch the pasta unless its made from a starchy tuber

> fruit: bananas, pineapple, papaya, basically any tropical fruit. Just

> make sure its in season and ripe. If the fruit is not in season and

> ripe don't eat it.

>

> Your **saturated** fat content should come in around 20% (or more!) of

> your diet in terms of calories. I know that sounds like a lot. Its at

> least 10 percentage points higher than the average western diet. So

> you are probably going to have to up that. It is easy to do with

> coconut, the milk, not the meat.

>

> Eating less red meat is bogus. Your PUFA content needs to come way

> down while still getting the needed nutrients. Red meat helps with

> that where white meat tends to be high in PUFA's unless it is a lean

> fish.

>

> I would add some herbs. Red Clover, Echinacea plus, and Gingko Biloba,

> all ready available from the Herb Doctor in tincture form which is the

> way you want to take them.

>

> https://web0.herbdoc.com/index.php? & c=1

>

> Ignore his vegan screeching. When it comes to herbal formulas he is top notch.

>

> Red Clover is specific for cancer, Echinacea Plus overall is an immune

> booster, and Gingko Biloba will help starve any cell that decides to

> build its own nutritional support system (i.e. feed off glucose) by

> becoming cancerous.

>

> Hope that helps,

>

>

> --

> " Forget about reading Austrian Economics. In fact, forget about

> reading in general. I finally realize what is the fastest, surest way

> to learn real economics: it's listening to NPR (National Public

> Radio). All you have to do is realize that EVERY SINGLE THING their

> radio hosts and guests say about economics is 100% FALSE--then you'll

> automatically learn what are real economic truths. "

>

> Kramer

>

[Guest guest]

.. Then I discovered I have

> high grade cervical dysplasia.

>

> I did a ton of research & decided I want to treat the dysplasia naturally,

using

> supplements & diet changes.

>

> So, now what to do? I just don't know enough about nutrition I guess to

figure out a

> diet that's beneficial for both issues. Any advice would be appreciated.

>

>

Hi ,

In my opinion, you may be handing yourself a death sentence if you try to

treat high grade (pre cancerous) cervical dysplasia through dietary advice

on an email list. You admit to not knowing enough about nutrition to treat

this condition. Please think very hard as to whether you want to put your

life in the hands of strangers on an email list - most of whom have no

experience with this condition.

This is a VERY easily treated condition in a non-invasive manner with a very

high success rate. You can get it done inexpensively at the closest Planned

Parenthood clinic.

I know someone now who has cervical cancer because she didn't do annual paps

for many years and it went unnoticed till she got sick. I saw her yesterday

- she's been doing both conventional treatments (chemo and radiation) as

well as alternative treatments with a Naturopath and she didn't look good.

It's so sad when this condition is so easily and relatively inexpensively

treated.

Do yourself a favor and don't play Russian Roulette with this. If you want

to heal yourself through diet, start with a less dangerous condition, like

the IBS. If you mess up, you probably won't lose your life with that one.

Suze

[Guest guest]

,

> Thanks for your quick reply!

Not a problem. I've known a few ladies over the years who have had

this issue. I would say 90% of them opted for surgery but a few

didn't. I used to have this fantastic guide from a very effective

natural healer (i.e. what he did worked clinically and wasn't just

theory) on how he cured this regularly with diet and herbs, but alas

it is either stuck deep somewhere in my storage or on one of my

previous and now extinct hard drives from a no longer extant computer.

It was quite an in-depth treatment of the subject and the way it is

diagnosed and handled by modern medicine.

One of my sisters may have it (though I doubt it) since I'm sure I

passed a copy along to them in years past. I'm equally sure it went

into the " to be read someday " pile :-)

I was famous back in the day for buying bundles of books and copying

off articles that caught my attention and then giving them as gifts.

Well life doesn't quite work that way. People read and react to things

when they are ready. It comes from within or it doesn't come at all.

Oh occasionally someone read something that I sent their way and said

" wow, that was life changing! " but it is not the norm. And for the few

who said it was life-changing even less actually did something about

it

Now sometimes I still do that, but much more selectively, and with NO

expectation that it will be read. I'm much more mellow these days,

although after what I have gone through over the last five years, if

someone asks me something I will unhesitatingly say what I am

thinking, and I really don't give a hoot what anyone else thinks, cuz

life is too short and I'm too old (relatively speaking) to be worrying

about all that.

Like recently when my mom was diagnosed with a tumor in her head. I

decided it was time to stop being mellow, at least with my family. I

wasn't in any way shape or form ready for my mom to check out of this

life, and I spent two days crying and basically not able to function

as a result since I knew what possibly lay ahead, having seen what

happened to three other people I have known, and I was not prepared

for a loved one of mine to go screaming into eternity at the hands of

a bunch of arrogant and cultic doctors whose only real solution was to

slash and burn, and condescendingly dismiss any viable alternatives.

As a result I have started to lay out in a series of emails how she

could beat this thing, pulling no punches, sending it to everyone who

I thought could have an influence on her, and letting the chips fall

where they may. I will eventually blog about it. It ruffled some

feathers indeed. One family member basically told me all she needs is

love from us and not a display of knowledge. That of course was her

way of saying she disagreed with what I had to say and probably was

personally offended at some of the soft but pointed jabs I took at

some of the thinking that pervades my family nutritionally and

medically. Still though, I was a gentleman and she couldn't be

offended on the account of any boorish behavior on my part, which

helped.

So I responded gently but in unequivocal terms that what she was

saying was hogwash. When someone needs food offering them a pat on the

back doesn't solve the problem. When sleep is called for a big meal

won't help. When you need a hug from your significant other shaking

hands doesn't get it done. I made it clear this is not an either/or

situation, and that both are proper in the right time and place. I

also made it clear that this is serious business and I'm told old and

have gone through too much lately to worry whether anyone agrees or

not. Her response? " its all good. " Overall response? Emails from other

family members who have serious health problems I heretofore knew

nothing about. My mom's response? She is lapping it up

**enthusiastically** (although resources and the negative drain of

others is a constant challenge).

Hmmm...so where were we, oh yeah the article on cervical dysplasia,

LOL! Sorry for the rant. If I find the article I will scan it and

email it to you.

In the past, cervical cancer, of which cervical dysplasia can be a

precursor, occurred much higher in western nuns than it did among the

population at large, and was known as the " single woman's disease "

because it had a very low rate of occurrence among women who had

children. Today that is no longer true as it is very much correlated

with changing sexual mores among single woman, and cervical dysplasia

is a doorway to that disease if not handled properly.

> I may need to back up a little though & get

> some more basic information about " native nutrition " . I'm fairly ignorant of

> most of the terms & concepts, other than reading the welcome page of this

> group. And I'm sure you all know that it's radically different from what

> I've been told to do for pretty much all my life. ; )

Yes quite radical compared to mainstream views. A good place to start

would be to read Nutrition and Physical Regeneration by Dr. Weston

Price. You say you have done a lot of research in the area of

nutrition. Exactly what kind of nutrition research were you doing?

> Also, some questions about your suggestions... What is the proper way to

> cook potatoes?

Skin them and then either boil them soup like or cook them sous vide.

> What's the importance of tropical fruits being ripe & in

> season?

Eating fruit in season keeps you from overindulging in sugar. Its a

real problem when you have fruit that is available year around that

would not normally be available if you could only get it locally. Also

tropical fruit has not been subject to as much of the genetic

engineering that afflicts other types of fruit.

> How do I go about incorporating coconut milk into my diet?

If you google coconut milk you will find all kind of recipes for

soups, desserts, smoothies, curries, etc. In my case I love coconut

curries (chicken, lamb, seafood, beef, or just plain with rice, it

doesn't matter), coconut cream with fruit, tapioca pudding, coconut

" candies " etc. It is a very versatile food and prominent in the diet

of many healthy cultures. It is a mainstay of Thai cooking. This won't

work for you but in the near future I want to try this coconut flour

bread recipe I found and see how that works as a sandwich bread.

It is a very important source of saturated fat, and for those who are

meat challenged for whatever reason, an ***extremely*** important

source of saturated fat and a relatively easily way to get a **lot**

of saturated fat into your diet.

> What is

> PUFA content?

PUFA stands for polyunsaturated fatty acids. Are you familiar with the

different kinds of fats? I briefly googled to see if I could find

someone giving a good biochemical explanation of the various fats

without commentary and had no success, but you might this site helpful

as an introduction:

http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/skinny.html

I always forget to write that out because on almost every list I'm on

lots of people know about polyunsaturated fatty acids but for some

reason aren't familiar with the acronym PUFA. A good intro to PUFA's

can be found here:

http://www.wolfrivernaturals.com/chris-masterjohn-special-reports.htm#pufa

(note: its the abstract and not the full report which has to be

purchased).

In cancer or so called precancerous conditions you should go as low as

possible on the PUFA's for a variety of reasons, not the least of

which is they can weaken the immune system when used in excess and can

accelerate the growth of cancers:

http://raypeat.com/articles/nutrition/oils-in-context.shtml

Keep in mind that cancer feeds exclusively on glucose, so depending on

what happens you may need to make some more dietary changes along the

way. The process is known as angiogenesis and Ginkgo Biloba has been

demonstrated to have anti-angiogenesis properties.

To be honest I would take the herbal interventions very seriously. And

I will give the same disclaimer publicly that I usually give privately

when people email me off-list and ask for advice, in fact which I just

gave to someone last night: I don't know anything about your history

personally and I don't know anything about your lifestyle, habits,

ability to properly self-report, discipline, focus, or lack thereof,

resources, blind spots or unique individual chemistry that makes up

who you are. So everything I say should be taken with a large grain of

salt and is basically shooting into a vacuum.

> Thanks for your patience!

Not a problem. I had a couple of slow days so I thought I would chime

in. I just read Suze Fisher's comment below saying you should go the

surgical route and don't play Russian roulette with nutrition

suggestions from strangers, so you have much to chew on. Alternatively

you could search out a natural healer (the discipline where they got

their initial training is not important i.e. naturopath, chiropractor,

MD, etc. but the actual experience is) who has a demonstrable track

record of success.

--

" What will you do, Burt, if your friend Ron actually gets elected

President? 'Well, I will need to start impeachment proceedings. They

all go bad once they get to Washington.' "

Burton S. Blumert - (1929-2009) R.I.P

[Guest guest]

On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 3:57 PM, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> Yes quite radical compared to mainstream views. A good place to start

> would be to read Nutrition and Physical Regeneration by Dr. Weston

> Price.

Oops, that should be Nutrition And Physical **Degeneration**. The

above is the title to my not quite ready for prime time website,

forum, and blog.

>> Also, some questions about your suggestions... What is the proper way to

>> cook potatoes?

>

> Skin them and then either boil them soup like or cook them sous vide.

By the way, you should peel and soak them. Ditch the soaking water and

make sure you eat the soup.

>> What's the importance of tropical fruits being ripe & in

>> season?

>

> Eating fruit in season keeps you from overindulging in sugar. Its a

> real problem when you have fruit that is available year around that

> would not normally be available if you could only get it locally. Also

> tropical fruit has not been subject to as much of the genetic

> engineering that afflicts other types of fruit.

Oops again. That should be selective breeding, not genetic engineering.

>> How do I go about incorporating coconut milk into my diet?

>

> If you google coconut milk you will find all kind of recipes for

> soups, desserts, smoothies, curries, etc. In my case I love coconut

> curries (chicken, lamb, seafood, beef, or just plain with rice, it

> doesn't matter), coconut cream with fruit, tapioca pudding, coconut

> " candies " etc. It is a very versatile food and prominent in the diet

> of many healthy cultures. It is a mainstay of Thai cooking. This won't

> work for you but in the near future I want to try this coconut flour

> bread recipe I found and see how that works as a sandwich bread.

Another great way is as part of a reduction sauce to pour over your

steak. Don't worry. Done right and you won't even taste the coconut

flavor.

--

" What will you do, Burt, if your friend Ron actually gets elected

President? 'Well, I will need to start impeachment proceedings. They

all go bad once they get to Washington.' "

Burton S. Blumert - (1929-2009) R.I.P

[Guest guest]

Well, let me first ensure everyone that I don't have cancer. I had a high-grade

pap smear last Nov, had a colposcopy & biopsy. The biopsy came back CIN 1, or

mild dysplasia, & the ECC was benign. While it's possible the colpo/biop missed

a more severe lesion, it's been a very short period of time since that pap smear

& cervical cancer usually grows very slowly. I'm vigilant about my checkups &

I'm currently under treatment by a naturopath, as well as a gynecologist who has

reviewed my records & is comfortable with me attempting to treat this naturally.

My ND has me on a cocktail of supplements, including:

folic acid (10mg)

beta carotene (10 drops)

B-complex

Selenium (200mcg)

coriolus versiocolor (500mg)

Vitamin C (3-5g)

Vitamin A-Thuja-Lomatium suppositories

I'm also on a probiotic, a women's multivitamin, flax seed oil (until it runs

out & then he recommended fish oil), & pau d'arco.

I'm in a cervical dysplasia support group () started by a woman who treated

CIN 3 naturally (she also included escharotics & some type of herbal tincture in

her protocol). She & others in the group who have cured dysplasia naturally are

the ones who recommended the high vegetable, low/no meat diet. They also told

me to go on the candida diet because of my yeast problems. I don't religiously

follow any diet recommendations that I get from strangers on the web, largely

because no one else knows my specific health needs better than me. I have

health problems that need nutritional support, but I'm also a runner & very

petite, so energy & weight loss are big concerns for me too.

With that said, I'm just trying to piece it all together because the high

veggie/low meat diet was not working for my IBS. It may still be the best thing

for me (won't know more until June), but I'm also looking long-term here &

trying to gather information for ongoing health.

, I can relate to people getting very testy when you start spouting

alternatives to conventional medicine. I don't consider myself to be overly

assertive about the natural dysplasia treatment, but I've definitely had

push-back from various people on message boards. One girl even removed me from

her group!

As far as my research, I've just been reading everything I can online about

natural living, from pretty much any source. There's tons of info out there so

I try to read all sides & make an informed decision. As you know, the

mainstream is very much anti-meat, anti-fat. Just yesterday Mike of

NaturalNews came out with a rant about how eating meat kills more people than

previously thought (http://www.naturalnews.com/025957.html).

Honestly, I'm very confused. I've always believed that we are meant to eat meat

& fats, but it's very scary reading some of Dr. Price's information & comparing

against what we're told today. But then I think of my grandparents, who ate

full-fat, meaty meals 3 times a day & both lived to be very old...my grandmother

in her 80s & my grandfather 90. My paternal grandfather is still alive & in her

80s. She lived on a farm, raised her own produce, cattle, pigs, etc. I have to

assume these elderly people ate much like Dr. Price recommends, but as usual

it's frightening to do something that flies in the face of accepted truth (like

treating dysplasia naturally).

Thanks for your links & info. I'll check them all out & I'm sure I'll have more

questions, as I'm just learning about all this. I'll also ask my ND about

Ginkgo Biloba. You say it should be in tincture form, not tablet?

Did I miss anything?? ; )

>

> ,

>

> > Thanks for your quick reply!

>

> Not a problem. I've known a few ladies over the years who have had

> this issue. I would say 90% of them opted for surgery but a few

> didn't. I used to have this fantastic guide from a very effective

> natural healer (i.e. what he did worked clinically and wasn't just

> theory) on how he cured this regularly with diet and herbs, but alas

> it is either stuck deep somewhere in my storage or on one of my

> previous and now extinct hard drives from a no longer extant computer.

> It was quite an in-depth treatment of the subject and the way it is

> diagnosed and handled by modern medicine.

>

> One of my sisters may have it (though I doubt it) since I'm sure I

> passed a copy along to them in years past. I'm equally sure it went

> into the " to be read someday " pile :-)

>

> I was famous back in the day for buying bundles of books and copying

> off articles that caught my attention and then giving them as gifts.

> Well life doesn't quite work that way. People read and react to things

> when they are ready. It comes from within or it doesn't come at all.

> Oh occasionally someone read something that I sent their way and said

> " wow, that was life changing! " but it is not the norm. And for the few

> who said it was life-changing even less actually did something about

> it

>

> Now sometimes I still do that, but much more selectively, and with NO

> expectation that it will be read. I'm much more mellow these days,

> although after what I have gone through over the last five years, if

> someone asks me something I will unhesitatingly say what I am

> thinking, and I really don't give a hoot what anyone else thinks, cuz

> life is too short and I'm too old (relatively speaking) to be worrying

> about all that.

>

> Like recently when my mom was diagnosed with a tumor in her head. I

> decided it was time to stop being mellow, at least with my family. I

> wasn't in any way shape or form ready for my mom to check out of this

> life, and I spent two days crying and basically not able to function

> as a result since I knew what possibly lay ahead, having seen what

> happened to three other people I have known, and I was not prepared

> for a loved one of mine to go screaming into eternity at the hands of

> a bunch of arrogant and cultic doctors whose only real solution was to

> slash and burn, and condescendingly dismiss any viable alternatives.

>

> As a result I have started to lay out in a series of emails how she

> could beat this thing, pulling no punches, sending it to everyone who

> I thought could have an influence on her, and letting the chips fall

> where they may. I will eventually blog about it. It ruffled some

> feathers indeed. One family member basically told me all she needs is

> love from us and not a display of knowledge. That of course was her

> way of saying she disagreed with what I had to say and probably was

> personally offended at some of the soft but pointed jabs I took at

> some of the thinking that pervades my family nutritionally and

> medically. Still though, I was a gentleman and she couldn't be

> offended on the account of any boorish behavior on my part, which

> helped.

>

> So I responded gently but in unequivocal terms that what she was

> saying was hogwash. When someone needs food offering them a pat on the

> back doesn't solve the problem. When sleep is called for a big meal

> won't help. When you need a hug from your significant other shaking

> hands doesn't get it done. I made it clear this is not an either/or

> situation, and that both are proper in the right time and place. I

> also made it clear that this is serious business and I'm told old and

> have gone through too much lately to worry whether anyone agrees or

> not. Her response? " its all good. " Overall response? Emails from other

> family members who have serious health problems I heretofore knew

> nothing about. My mom's response? She is lapping it up

> **enthusiastically** (although resources and the negative drain of

> others is a constant challenge).

>

> Hmmm...so where were we, oh yeah the article on cervical dysplasia,

> LOL! Sorry for the rant. If I find the article I will scan it and

> email it to you.

>

> In the past, cervical cancer, of which cervical dysplasia can be a

> precursor, occurred much higher in western nuns than it did among the

> population at large, and was known as the " single woman's disease "

> because it had a very low rate of occurrence among women who had

> children. Today that is no longer true as it is very much correlated

> with changing sexual mores among single woman, and cervical dysplasia

> is a doorway to that disease if not handled properly.

>

> > I may need to back up a little though & get

> > some more basic information about " native nutrition " . I'm fairly ignorant of

> > most of the terms & concepts, other than reading the welcome page of this

> > group. And I'm sure you all know that it's radically different from what

> > I've been told to do for pretty much all my life. ; )

>

> Yes quite radical compared to mainstream views. A good place to start

> would be to read Nutrition and Physical Regeneration by Dr. Weston

> Price. You say you have done a lot of research in the area of

> nutrition. Exactly what kind of nutrition research were you doing?

>

> > Also, some questions about your suggestions... What is the proper way to

> > cook potatoes?

>

> Skin them and then either boil them soup like or cook them sous vide.

>

> > What's the importance of tropical fruits being ripe & in

> > season?

>

> Eating fruit in season keeps you from overindulging in sugar. Its a

> real problem when you have fruit that is available year around that

> would not normally be available if you could only get it locally. Also

> tropical fruit has not been subject to as much of the genetic

> engineering that afflicts other types of fruit.

>

> > How do I go about incorporating coconut milk into my diet?

>

> If you google coconut milk you will find all kind of recipes for

> soups, desserts, smoothies, curries, etc. In my case I love coconut

> curries (chicken, lamb, seafood, beef, or just plain with rice, it

> doesn't matter), coconut cream with fruit, tapioca pudding, coconut

> " candies " etc. It is a very versatile food and prominent in the diet

> of many healthy cultures. It is a mainstay of Thai cooking. This won't

> work for you but in the near future I want to try this coconut flour

> bread recipe I found and see how that works as a sandwich bread.

>

> It is a very important source of saturated fat, and for those who are

> meat challenged for whatever reason, an ***extremely*** important

> source of saturated fat and a relatively easily way to get a **lot**

> of saturated fat into your diet.

>

> > What is

> > PUFA content?

>

> PUFA stands for polyunsaturated fatty acids. Are you familiar with the

> different kinds of fats? I briefly googled to see if I could find

> someone giving a good biochemical explanation of the various fats

> without commentary and had no success, but you might this site helpful

> as an introduction:

>

> http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/skinny.html

>

> I always forget to write that out because on almost every list I'm on

> lots of people know about polyunsaturated fatty acids but for some

> reason aren't familiar with the acronym PUFA. A good intro to PUFA's

> can be found here:

>

> http://www.wolfrivernaturals.com/chris-masterjohn-special-reports.htm#pufa

> (note: its the abstract and not the full report which has to be

> purchased).

>

> In cancer or so called precancerous conditions you should go as low as

> possible on the PUFA's for a variety of reasons, not the least of

> which is they can weaken the immune system when used in excess and can

> accelerate the growth of cancers:

>

> http://raypeat.com/articles/nutrition/oils-in-context.shtml

>

> Keep in mind that cancer feeds exclusively on glucose, so depending on

> what happens you may need to make some more dietary changes along the

> way. The process is known as angiogenesis and Ginkgo Biloba has been

> demonstrated to have anti-angiogenesis properties.

>

> To be honest I would take the herbal interventions very seriously. And

> I will give the same disclaimer publicly that I usually give privately

> when people email me off-list and ask for advice, in fact which I just

> gave to someone last night: I don't know anything about your history

> personally and I don't know anything about your lifestyle, habits,

> ability to properly self-report, discipline, focus, or lack thereof,

> resources, blind spots or unique individual chemistry that makes up

> who you are. So everything I say should be taken with a large grain of

> salt and is basically shooting into a vacuum.

>

>

> > Thanks for your patience!

>

> Not a problem. I had a couple of slow days so I thought I would chime

> in. I just read Suze Fisher's comment below saying you should go the

> surgical route and don't play Russian roulette with nutrition

> suggestions from strangers, so you have much to chew on. Alternatively

> you could search out a natural healer (the discipline where they got

> their initial training is not important i.e. naturopath, chiropractor,

> MD, etc. but the actual experience is) who has a demonstrable track

> record of success.

>

>

> --

> " What will you do, Burt, if your friend Ron actually gets elected

> President? 'Well, I will need to start impeachment proceedings. They

> all go bad once they get to Washington.' "

>

> Burton S. Blumert - (1929-2009) R.I.P

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ashely,

I would read everything Ray Peat has to say about cancer and progesterone,

especially cervical cancer. Here are some articles for starters.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/cancer-progesterone.shtml

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/estrogen-progesterone-cancer.shtml

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ru486.shtml

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/leakiness.shtml

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/ray-peat.htm

http://members.westnet.com.au/pkolb/peat_ind.htm

Here is Lee's diet protocol which someone has already outlined.

http://www.litalee.com/documents/Cancer%20And%20Tumors%20Nutritional%20Program.p\

df

www.litalee.com

In a nutshell, you can increase your CO2 levels starting today buy breathing

into a bag, drinking carbonated drinks and taking baths in baking soda. This

will increase your oxygen levels.

Eat raw carrots daily to rid your body of unwanted estrogens.

There is a Italian doctor who is curing cancer with baking soda.

http://cancertutor.com/Cancer02/Simoncini.html

I know someone who said get yourself to the doctor and you could do that but as

you probably know they are great at curing cervical cancer. According to Peat,

it is caused by to little CO2 and progesterone and too much estrogen.

You can take detoxing baths in bentonite clay. www.aboutclay.com. The forum

has people ingesting clay which I did but have stopped because of the aluminum

content but bathing is a safe detox and will draw out toxins.

Both Ray Peat and Lee do phone consults. is an enzyme therapist and

talks to Peat daily. You get two for one with her with the added bonus of

enzyme therapy.

I'm sorry you are going through this. I hope you find this helpful.

Joan

>

> My name is ...I just joined this group over the weekend because I need

some advice on how to balance my nutritional needs between 2 different health

issues.

>

> I was dx with IBS-C in college. I recently found the site www.helpforibs.com,

where the author suggests lots of soluble fiber for IBS. The recommendation is

for lots of rice, pasta, sweet potatoes, bananas, etc., & to be very careful

with adding insoluble fiber foods (raw produce, whole grains, etc.) She also

recommends no dairy, coffee, alcohol, & other known GI irritants. I loosely

followed her reccomendations for a while with pretty good success. Then I

discovered I have high grade cervical dysplasia.

>

> I did a ton of research & decided I want to treat the dysplasia naturally,

using supplements & diet changes. So I totally cut out the coffee & alchol,

replaced them with green tea, & started eating more fruits & veggies, especially

cruciferious veggies, eating less meat (esp red meat), & avoiding refined sugar

& flour (the constant prodding & scoping has caused recurrent yeast issues). I

was feeling good about this, until the IBS flared up again. Seems there's

something to the soluble fiber thing after all.

>

> So, now what to do? I just don't know enough about nutrition I guess to

figure out a diet that's beneficial for both issues. Any advice would be

appreciated.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Not a problem. I had a couple of slow days so I thought I would chime

> in. I just read Suze Fisher's comment below saying you should go the

> surgical route and don't play Russian roulette with nutrition

> suggestions from strangers, so you have much to chew on. Alternatively

> you could search out a natural healer (the discipline where they got

> their initial training is not important i.e. naturopath, chiropractor,

> MD, etc. but the actual experience is) who has a demonstrable track

> record of success.

Just to clarify, I wasn't referring to conventional surgery but rather laser

treatment or cryo " surgery " which really has nothing to do with conventional

surgery - it just freezes the abnormal cells and they die. It takes maybe 15

mins and has no significant side effects.

Due to bioindividuality, different life styles, etc. we don't know if an

alternative therapy that worked for one will work for another. So, IMO, when

there is something that could lead to a life threatening disease and it

would be relatively inexpensive to remove the threat with a 15 min visit to

a gyno or nurse practitioner, AND the person isn't very knowledgeable about

nutrition, it makes logical sense to me to take the non-invasive,

non-harmful, inexpensive route which is known to be effective.

However, I did see post that she's under the care of a Naturopath,

which is an important piece of info we didn't have before, and that she

actually has a lower grade dysplasia than her first email seemed to

indicate, so I would at least suggest frequent paps while she tries to work

through this with her ND.

This is, of course, NO comment whatsoever on the quality of your nutritional

knowledge and general advice, since you are one of the most knowledgeable

folks in this area that I know.

Lastly, I'm SO sorry to hear about your Mom. Please send her my best wishes

for a full recovery and let her know she's in my thoughts.

Suze

[Guest guest]

I haven't been offered cyrosurgery by any of the gynecologists I've seen, only

LEEP & cone biopsy, both of which are extremely invasive. One gyn actually

recommended against cryosurgery. I can't remember exactly why at the moment.

It's been my understanding from reading about dysplasia treatment that

cryosurgery has fallen out of favor to excisional methods. Maybe that's just in

my area of the country?

>

> >

> > Not a problem. I had a couple of slow days so I thought I would chime

> > in. I just read Suze Fisher's comment below saying you should go the

> > surgical route and don't play Russian roulette with nutrition

> > suggestions from strangers, so you have much to chew on. Alternatively

> > you could search out a natural healer (the discipline where they got

> > their initial training is not important i.e. naturopath, chiropractor,

> > MD, etc. but the actual experience is) who has a demonstrable track

> > record of success.

>

> Just to clarify, I wasn't referring to conventional surgery but rather laser

> treatment or cryo " surgery " which really has nothing to do with conventional

> surgery - it just freezes the abnormal cells and they die. It takes maybe 15

> mins and has no significant side effects.

>

> Due to bioindividuality, different life styles, etc. we don't know if an

> alternative therapy that worked for one will work for another. So, IMO, when

> there is something that could lead to a life threatening disease and it

> would be relatively inexpensive to remove the threat with a 15 min visit to

> a gyno or nurse practitioner, AND the person isn't very knowledgeable about

> nutrition, it makes logical sense to me to take the non-invasive,

> non-harmful, inexpensive route which is known to be effective.

>

> However, I did see post that she's under the care of a Naturopath,

> which is an important piece of info we didn't have before, and that she

> actually has a lower grade dysplasia than her first email seemed to

> indicate, so I would at least suggest frequent paps while she tries to work

> through this with her ND.

>

> This is, of course, NO comment whatsoever on the quality of your nutritional

> knowledge and general advice, since you are one of the most knowledgeable

> folks in this area that I know.

>

> Lastly, I'm SO sorry to hear about your Mom. Please send her my best wishes

> for a full recovery and let her know she's in my thoughts.

>

> Suze

>

[Guest guest]

,

> Well, let me first ensure everyone that I don't have cancer. I had a

> high-grade pap smear last Nov, had a colposcopy & biopsy. The biopsy came

> back CIN 1, or mild dysplasia, & the ECC was benign. While it's possible the

> colpo/biop missed a more severe lesion, it's been a very short period of

> time since that pap smear & cervical cancer usually grows very slowly. I'm

> vigilant about my checkups & I'm currently under treatment by a naturopath,

> as well as a gynecologist who has reviewed my records & is comfortable with

> me attempting to treat this naturally.

Okay. Very interesting. I sure do wish I had that article.

> My ND has me on a cocktail of

> supplements, including:

>

> folic acid (10mg)

> beta carotene (10 drops)

> B-complex

> Selenium (200mcg)

> coriolus versiocolor (500mg)

> Vitamin C (3-5g)

> Vitamin A-Thuja-Lomatium suppositories

>

> I'm also on a probiotic, a women's multivitamin, flax seed oil (until it

> runs out & then he recommended fish oil), & pau d'arco.

That is quite a combo of stuff listed, but I will keep it to a few

questions for your ND.

Why the beta carotene?

Why the flax or fish oil?

Has your ND seen any **personal** successes with Pau D'Arco?

More importantly has your naturopath seen regular success with that

cocktail, or is this something he/she researched and is now

recommending to you?

> I'm in a cervical dysplasia support group () started by a woman who

> treated CIN 3 naturally (she also included escharotics & some type of herbal

> tincture in her protocol). She & others in the group who have cured

> dysplasia naturally are the ones who recommended the high vegetable, low/no

> meat diet.

This is not unusual in the alternative health field. A lot of very

good natural healers have been vegetarian/vegan though such a diet,

while often helpful in the long run, isn't necessary or as helpful in

the long term quest for health. I have yet to find any healthy culture

left to their own devices that ate an exclusively vegan diet. Low meat

perhaps, but certainly not devoid of animal products.

> They also told me to go on the candida diet because of my yeast

> problems. I don't religiously follow any diet recommendations that I get

> from strangers on the web, largely because no one else knows my specific

> health needs better than me. I have health problems that need nutritional

> support, but I'm also a runner & very petite, so energy & weight loss are

> big concerns for me too.

Do you mean not having enough energy and being careful not to gain too

much weight?

> With that said, I'm just trying to piece it all together because the high

> veggie/low meat diet was not working for my IBS. It may still be the best

> thing for me (won't know more until June), but I'm also looking long-term

> here & trying to gather information for ongoing health.

While I question any largely vegetable diet that isn't based on

starchy tubers, you can certainly do well on a low meat diet provided

you do certain things like keep the saturated fat content very high.

> , I can relate to people getting very testy when you start spouting

> alternatives to conventional medicine. I don't consider myself to be overly

> assertive about the natural dysplasia treatment, but I've definitely had

> push-back from various people on message boards. One girl even removed me

> from her group!

Yeah its amazing, but understandable, and believe me I don't spout! :-)

I was firm yet as gentle as I could possibly be given the severity of

the situation.

> As far as my research, I've just been reading everything I can online about

> natural living, from pretty much any source. There's tons of info out there

> so I try to read all sides & make an informed decision. As you know, the

> mainstream is very much anti-meat, anti-fat. Just yesterday Mike of

> NaturalNews came out with a rant about how eating meat kills more people

> than previously thought (http://www.naturalnews.com/025957.html).

More about this below, but one thing that can really help is to learn

how to read a study. That particular study, when examined closely is

plain bogus, no ifs ands or butts about it. It has been effectively

critiqued and debunked all over the web. It was a very poorly designed

study, but of course many who already have an ideological bent in that

direction will eat it up. So if Mike is one of the people you

read a lot of, and he couldn't see through that study (which took all

of about 30 seconds, if that long), then you should probably stop

reading him :-)

> Honestly, I'm very confused. I've always believed that we are meant to eat

> meat & fats, but it's very scary reading some of Dr. Price's information &

> comparing against what we're told today.

Notice the difference. Reading what Price **observed** as opposed to

what we are being told today, which keen **observers** can easily

reject (like that silly meat study).

Your " gut " , " belief system " , " intuition " , or whatever you want to call

it is telling you the truth. You, IMO, ignore it at your own peril.

> But then I think of my

> grandparents, who ate full-fat, meaty meals 3 times a day & both lived to be

> very old...my grandmother in her 80s & my grandfather 90. My paternal

> grandfather is still alive & in her 80s. She lived on a farm, raised her own

> produce, cattle, pigs, etc. I have to assume these elderly people ate much

> like Dr. Price recommends, but as usual it's frightening to do something

> that flies in the face of accepted truth (like treating dysplasia

> naturally).

Alright, lets see if I can be of some service and help clear a little

of the confusion and maybe others will chime in.

First thing, step back and take a deep breath. There truly is some

solid ground in the midst of all the apparent confusion. In part you

have already stumbled over some of the answers because you took notice

of the apparent conflict of what you know to be true (your

grandparents health/longevity from supposedly " bad " meals) with that

which you are told **ought** to be true (your forebears dropping dead

like flies from heart attack, cancer, etc. from their " bad " meals). To

make matters worse there is a dentist (Dr. Price) who flew around to

various parts of the world and found a whole bunch of healthy people

who ate just like your grandparents.

The fact you just didn't gloss over this is to be commended.

If you are going to concern yourself with paying attention to

scientific studies, either directly or as popularly summarized in the

media, then it is imperative that you learn how to read a study.

Otherwise you will be tossed to and fro by every new study that comes

along purporting to settle this or that question. I had a couple of

web links on reading studies that I seem to have lost due to computer

dysfunction but here is one link that should help:

http://www.nycclash.com/CaseAgainstBans/HowToReadStudies.html

It is dissecting the " science " behind the implementation of smoking

bans around the country, but that doesn't matter. Bans are just the

fodder used to teach how to read a study. In fact the subtitle for the

article is,

EPIDEMIOLOGY 101

OR HOW TO READ AND

UNDERSTAND A STUDY

There are many reasons that something becomes accepted " truth " and it

very often has little to do with the truth. Just accept the fact that

if you are going to do any independent thinking, you will often find

yourself outside the mainstream on many occasions. If you want to sink

your teeth a little deeper into the subject of why the march of

scientific truth is not a progressive straight forward line, and that

it is quite possible for a true paradigm, scientific or otherwise, to

be replaced with a false paradigm, I would suggest an essay written a

number of years ago by Murray Rothbard, " Ludwig Von Mises and the

Paradigm of Our Age, " which can be found here:

http://mises.org/rothbard/paradigm.pdf

excerpt:

" Furthermore...it becomes clear that, since intellectual vested

interests play a more dominant role than continual open-minded

testing, it may well happen that a successor paradigm is **less**

correct than a predecessor. And if that is true, then we must always

be open to the possibility that, indeed, we often know **less** about

a given science now than we did decades or even centuries ago. Because

paradigms become discarded and are never looked at again, the world

may have **forgotten** scientific truth that was once known, as well

as added to its stock of knowledge. Reading older scientists now opens

up the distinct possibility that we may learn something that we

haven't known---or have collectively forgotten---about the discipline.

Professor de Grazia states that 'much more is discovered and forgotten

than is known,' and much that has been forgotten may be more correct

than theories that are now accepted as true.

" If the Kuhn thesis is correct about the physical sciences, where we

can obtain empirical and laboratory tests of hypotheses fairly easily,

how much more must it be true in philosophy and the social sciences,

where no such laboratory tests are possible! "

> Thanks for your links & info. I'll check them all out & I'm sure I'll have

> more questions, as I'm just learning about all this. I'll also ask my ND

> about Ginkgo Biloba. You say it should be in tincture form, not tablet?

With very few exceptions herbs should be taken as tinctures, not

powders or tablets. And with very few exceptions, most herbal formulas

on the market today are very poorly made, including what ND's and

other credentialed practitioners are using in their practices, which

is not very helpful to the cause of herbal therapy. I would focus on

the Echinacea/Red Clover combination first, and then properly source

out the Ginkgo.

> Did I miss anything?? ; )

Well if you did there is always next time :-)

--

" What will you do, Burt, if your friend Ron actually gets elected

President? 'Well, I will need to start impeachment proceedings. They

all go bad once they get to Washington.' "

Burton S. Blumert - (1929-2009) R.I.P

[Guest guest]

Suze,

>> Not a problem. I had a couple of slow days so I thought I would chime

>> in. I just read Suze Fisher's comment below saying you should go the

>> surgical route and don't play Russian roulette with nutrition

>> suggestions from strangers, so you have much to chew on. Alternatively

>> you could search out a natural healer (the discipline where they got

>> their initial training is not important i.e. naturopath, chiropractor,

>> MD, etc. but the actual experience is) who has a demonstrable track

>> record of success.

>

> Just to clarify, I wasn't referring to conventional surgery but rather laser

> treatment or cryo " surgery " which really has nothing to do with conventional

> surgery - it just freezes the abnormal cells and they die. It takes maybe 15

> mins and has no significant side effects.

I understood that and actually didn't have conventional surgery

primarily in mind.

> Due to bioindividuality, different life styles, etc. we don't know if an

> alternative therapy that worked for one will work for another. So, IMO, when

> there is something that could lead to a life threatening disease and it

> would be relatively inexpensive to remove the threat with a 15 min visit to

> a gyno or nurse practitioner, AND the person isn't very knowledgeable about

> nutrition, it makes logical sense to me to take the non-invasive,

> non-harmful, inexpensive route which is known to be effective.

Right, which herbal therapy rightly applied is known to be :-) Even

before the revelation that she had a naturopath, had she shown an

inclination to search out what I was suggesting, I would have told her

not to go it alone, at least regarding the herbal therapy.

Another issue is that when you are dealing with " pre-cancerous " or

cancerous cells, its is never just in one part of the body. The value

of watching the cells change and be ejected by the body is that you

know the cancer is gone, since the place it shows up is usually just

the tip of the iceberg and indicative of deeper problems in the body.

When my mom had her " benign " tumor removed 5 years ago I told her and

my family that the tumors are probably not gone, or the mechanism in

play that is causing the tumors is still around, and it/they would

just show up elsewhere in the body. They of course thought I was out

to lunch since the MD said otherwise.

> However, I did see post that she's under the care of a Naturopath,

> which is an important piece of info we didn't have before, and that she

> actually has a lower grade dysplasia than her first email seemed to

> indicate, so I would at least suggest frequent paps while she tries to work

> through this with her ND.

Frequent paps can be a part of the problem **but** we don't need to go there.

> This is, of course, NO comment whatsoever on the quality of your nutritional

> knowledge and general advice, since you are one of the most knowledgeable

> folks in this area that I know.

I didn't take it that way, in fact I think your warning probably

should be repeated from time to time, and illustrates the limitations

of the internet for both parties, the one receiving the suggestions

and the one making the suggestions.

--

" What will you do, Burt, if your friend Ron actually gets elected

President? 'Well, I will need to start impeachment proceedings. They

all go bad once they get to Washington.' "

Burton S. Blumert - (1929-2009) R.I.P