Unfair fare: Why prices for meat from small local farms are too high

[Guest guest]

http://www.ethicurean.com/2009/03/31/unfair-fare/

It is becoming something of a cliche that industrial food prices

“don’t reflect the true cost of raising food,” for a number of

reasons: because a lot of those costs are shunted onto the public in

the form of externalities like pollution, and because of low wages

paid to farm workers and low prices paid to farmers, and subsidies,

to name a few...

Carolyn

Madison, WI

[Guest guest]

But why do you have to sell for more than the store in order to make a

profit? How much profit is fair? I think people think we should be able to

charge less becuase we don't have a stores overhead.

My friend used to own the store here in our little hamlet and she did a 30%

markup on her groceries. She also drove 1.5 hours one way to pick them up

so that was included in that cost.

Interesting topic.

Debbie Chikousky

Manitoba, Canada

www.chikouskyfarms.com

http://blog.choosyhomeschooler.com/

All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for

enough good men to do nothing. " -Edmund Burke

Re: Unfair fare: Why prices for meat from small local

farms are too high

>I raise lamb, and you would think that I would be sold out at the $5.00 a

>lb I need to sell it for to break even. but I'm not, for some reason people

>continue to buy at the store. I get a sad 2.50 for a dz eggs and had a very

>hard time selling my pigs last year, agian at my break even point($3.oo a

>lb for pork). I don't think they are bad prices, I've seen all of the above

>for more in the store. I think most of the people believe the farmer can

>raise it for cheeper and we are just trying to rip them off or make a big

>profit. or at least thats what it feels like around here.

>

> le

> Sage Acres

> Lapine, Oregon

>

>

>>

>> http://www.ethicurean.com/2009/03/31/unfair-fare/

>>

>> It is becoming something of a cliche that industrial food prices

>> " don't reflect the true cost of raising food, " for a number of

>> reasons: because a lot of those costs are shunted onto the public in

>> the form of externalities like pollution, and because of low wages

>> paid to farm workers and low prices paid to farmers, and subsidies,

>> to name a few...

>>

[Guest guest]

Our lettuce and spinach comes up as a topic often with our customers.  We grow using very clean methods (grown hydroponically--some with sterile medium, some just in water) and wash frequently as we harvest.  We pick straight into harvest bags (very clean).  In short, our product is clean enough to eat when picked.  Compare that to lettuces and greens that are brought from mega fields in other states or even other countries.  Grown on the ground (not a bad thing in itself, of course) and harvested by multitudes of workers who may or may not know sanitary procedures, then packed in boxes and shipped to wherever. 

No, we don't have a store with employees.  But we also cannot grow as much as the mega farms, nor do we get the large discounts for supplies and necessities.  But our customers notice the freshness and flavor that makes a big difference to them.  It is just a better product.

What's a fair profit?  In a capitalist society such as the USA is supposed to be, that is up to the individual.  If the customer disagrees, he will not purchase and if enough customers do not purchase, the seller will be forced to change something, possibly the price.

Our customers drive from as far away as 75 miles to purchase our product.  Some will join coops to have a larger order delivered to them or group together so that only one is driving each week.   Our prices are competitive, but when you factor in the gas to get here, we are more expensive.  Still, our business is steadily increasing and hopefully will continue.

-- Diane Kvery THANKFUL homeschool Mom to 9 blessings inChristmas, FLhttp://hocfarms.com

But why do you have to sell for more than the store in order to make a

profit? How much profit is fair? I think people think we should be able to

charge less becuase we don't have a stores overhead.

My friend used to own the store here in our little hamlet and she did a 30%

markup on her groceries. She also drove 1.5 hours one way to pick them up

so that was included in that cost.

Interesting topic.

Debbie Chikousky

Manitoba, Canada

www.chikouskyfarms.com

http://blog.choosyhomeschooler.com/

All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for

enough good men to do nothing. " -Edmund Burke

Re: Unfair fare: Why prices for meat from small local

farms are too high

>I raise lamb, and you would think that I would be sold out at the $5.00 a

>lb I need to sell it for to break even. but I'm not, for some reason people

>continue to buy at the store. I get a sad 2.50 for a dz eggs and had a very

>hard time selling my pigs last year, agian at my break even point($3.oo a

>lb for pork). I don't think they are bad prices, I've seen all of the above

>for more in the store. I think most of the people believe the farmer can

>raise it for cheeper and we are just trying to rip them off or make a big

>profit. or at least thats what it feels like around here.

>

> le

> Sage Acres

> Lapine, Oregon

>

>

>>

>> http://www.ethicurean.com/2009/03/31/unfair-fare/

>>

>> It is becoming something of a cliche that industrial food prices

>> " don't reflect the true cost of raising food, " for a number of

>> reasons: because a lot of those costs are shunted onto the public in

>> the form of externalities like pollution, and because of low wages

>> paid to farm workers and low prices paid to farmers, and subsidies,

>> to name a few...

>>

[Guest guest]

le,

If I had to rely on the folks living close to me for sales I'd be bankrupt. They

all think that whatever I have for sale should be cheaper than Walmart. Don't

know for certain where that attitude comes from, maybe the same place the

" you're home, you don't work so you can do this for me " we hear all the time.

My solution has been to search out larger towns and cities. It means driving 1

1/2 to 2 1/2 hours but I've slowly built up a customer base that makes it very

worth while. Summer months finds me at 2 or 3 different farmers markets. We

don't have much in the way of produce but I put it out and while they are

browsing I get the chance to point out my eggs and soap as well as talk about

our meat.

Localharvest.com was suggested and I'd go with that for sure. Just don't put

down your exact address or you'll have folks driving up to the farm for one

dozen of your $2.50 eggs and eating up 1-2 hours of your time.

Hope this was of some help,

Belinda

>

> I raise lamb, and you would think that I would be sold out at the $5.00 a lb I

need to sell it for to break even. but I'm not, for some reason people continue

to buy at the store. I get a sad 2.50 for a dz eggs and had a very hard time

selling my pigs last year, agian at my break even point($3.oo a lb for pork). I

don't think they are bad prices, I've seen all of the above for more in the

store. I think most of the people believe the farmer can raise it for cheeper

and we are just trying to rip them off or make a big profit. or at least thats

what it feels like around here.

>

> le

> Sage Acres

> Lapine, Oregon

>

[Guest guest]

diane,

i'd LOVE to marry a farmer!!!!!!! :-) i always tell people that i need to find

a farmer to marry. if you know any available ones up my way.....(i'm in

cincinnati) :-D

and danielle, that's sad that people aren't buying more from small farmers like

you. i NEVER buy meat from the grocery - i always buy from small local farmers,

and i think and hope more people are starting to do that. i would much rather

pay more for humanely raised, higher quality meat/milk/eggs than get the junk

that they sell at the store for cheaper. actually, the wonderful eggs that i

get from a friend of mine are 50 cents - $1.00 cheaper than grocery store

organic eggs. i think it may just be ignorance? if they only knew or realized

what is involved in factory farming, they would probably be more likely to buy

from people like you.

hyesun

......we choose to stay a family farm (though hope my

> sons marry girls who want to help--anyone know any young adults looking for

> the farm life? LOL) and produce a smaller amount that can be sold mainly

> direct (we do sell some wholesale in smaller lots).

>

> -

> Diane K

> very THANKFUL homeschool Mom to 9 blessings in

> Christmas, FL

> http://hocfarms.com

>

> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 7:16 AM, le Wallace wrote:

>

> > I raise lamb, and you would think that I would be sold out at the $5.00

> > a lb I need to sell it for to break even. but I'm not, for some reason

> > people continue to buy at the store. I get a sad 2.50 for a dz eggs and had

> > a very hard time selling my pigs last year, agian at my break even

> > point($3.oo a lb for pork). I don't think they are bad prices, I've seen all

> > of the above for more in the store. I think most of the people believe the

> > farmer can raise it for cheeper and we are just trying to rip them off or

> > make a big profit. or at least thats what it feels like around here.

> >

> > le

> > Sage Acres

> > Lapine, Oregon

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > http://www.ethicurean.com/2009/03/31/unfair-fare/

> > >

> > > It is becoming something of a cliche that industrial food prices

> > > " don't reflect the true cost of raising food, " for a number of

> > > reasons: because a lot of those costs are shunted onto the public in

> > > the form of externalities like pollution, and because of low wages

> > > paid to farm workers and low prices paid to farmers, and subsidies,

> > > to name a few...

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> -

>

[Guest guest]

$14/gal? Honestly, I could not afford to buy milk at that cost. I do not

mind paying more for quality food, I buy local, usually organic chickens,

beef, pork, milk and eggs, and most of those items are more expensive than

I could get them at the store, (in fact I drive 1 hour one way to pick up

my milk, so the cost of gas adds to that also) but there is a point at

which I would not be able to afford to buy quality. And $14/gal for milk

would be past that point. I buy 4 gallons a week from my farmer - that

would be more than 1/4 of my entire food budget for the week for a family

of 6. There is a point after which a person cannot afford things which has

absolutely NOTHING to do with whether or not they are uneducated about what

it takes to produce high quality food.

JMO,

Polly

nehrboss wrote:

> It all comes down to big Farms/dairies cutting corners to save money and

> keep cost down; people unrealistically comparing walmart prices with

> local quality (its just impossible); The qulaity that you would get from

> a local farmer is in no comparison to walmart products from mass

> produced farms, but yet people want the same or worse yet think local

> should be cheaper. When we are not milking I pay a local farmer

> $14/gallon of the best quality milk you will ever see. The

> reason...because I KNOW what I am getting...and...I KNOW what it takes

> to raise a few dairy cows. When my hubby dried up our cows and we

> started buying milk again at $14/gallon, my hubby said he thinks we are

> MAKING money!! That goes for everything from garden veggies to chickens

> & eggs to beef. Anyone who has a problem paying the prices are very

> uneducated about what it takes to produce high quality food.

[Guest guest]

When feed costs are so high,the milk cost more..I sell mine for pet and livestock food

and get $4 a quart here..I pay $150 a month

for just hay,and $15. or more for each 50#

bag of goat ration,then $20 a block for the

sweetlix goat mineral blocks,get those 3 at

a time..Need 2 now,bucks arn't going through

theirs quite as fast as the does..Then we get

animal cookies for treats,for after milking..

Oh,and 60/40 hay pellets to mix in the grain,

because some does eat the grain too fast and

end up getting clumpy poo..Plus the cost of

tetnus antitoxin and CD & T shots,and wormers and herbs..Dairy animals are expensive..So,think what the farmer has to

pay to keep those animals healthy to get that

raw milk..There are vet bills too..When I start

my milk share program,I expect to divide the

vet bills between me and the share holders..

You have to have the blood tested every year for diseases people can get from drinking the milk..CL,CAE,TB,etc..LJPS

RE: Re: Unfair fare: Why prices for meat from small local farms are too high

I live close to the $14 raw milk also and am so thankful that there are other milks available to me for less. I am not saying that the milk isn’t worth $14 but I just can’t afford it. I co-run a large coop that milk gets trucked in from another state every other week for about $8 a gallon.

(Hi !!)

Tina

From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of PollySent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 1:58 PMTo: RawDairy Subject: Re: Unfair fare: Why prices for meat from small local farms are too high

$14/gal? Honestly, I could not afford to buy milk at that cost. I do not mind paying more for quality food, I buy local, usually organic chickens, beef, pork, milk and eggs, and most of those items are more expensive than I could get them at the store, (in fact I drive 1 hour one way to pick up my milk, so the cost of gas adds to that also) but there is a point at which I would not be able to afford to buy quality. And $14/gal for milk would be past that point. I buy 4 gallons a week from my farmer - that would be more than 1/4 of my entire food budget for the week for a family of 6. There is a point after which a person cannot afford things which has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether or not they are uneducated about what it takes to produce high quality food.JMO,Pollynehrboss wrote:> It all comes down to big Farms/dairies cutting corners to save money and> keep cost down; people unrealistically comparing walmart prices with> local quality (its just impossible); The qulaity that you would get from> a local farmer is in no comparison to walmart products from mass> produced farms, but yet people want the same or worse yet think local> should be cheaper. When we are not milking I pay a local farmer> $14/gallon of the best quality milk you will ever see. The> reason...because I KNOW what I am getting...and...I KNOW what it takes> to raise a few dairy cows. When my hubby dried up our cows and we> started buying milk again at $14/gallon, my hubby said he thinks we are> MAKING money!! That goes for everything from garden veggies to chickens> & eggs to beef. Anyone who has a problem paying the prices are very> uneducated about what it takes to produce high quality food.

[Guest guest]

LOL! that's a great line.

 

It's a matter of priority - when my friends look at me and say, " We can't afford to eat like you do. " I tell them I can't afford to dress the way they do, with their designer clothes and >$100 pairs of shoes (many of them!)  

 

Jen

 

I just tell those folks: " Now that's a great buy!!! Where else can you get the remnants of 300 different cows from all over the globe in one lb of burger??? " End of subject.at LoveTree

lovetreefarm.comBill said " When I get the " I can get burger at Walmart for $1.29 on sale. " routine, I say, " GO FOR IT! " If that dreck is what you want to feed your family, I will

not stand in your way. But if you want beef of a known source, humanely raised, free of the taint of artificial hormones and routine antibiotics, by all means talk to me. If you don't care want you feed your family, it is not

my responsibility to make it possible for you to do so free of choices and values. You decide what is important. " And then I drop it.If they want to continue the conversation, fine, I will eventually sell

them, if not, the sooner they quit wasting my time, the better. "

-- " Humility is a virtue when you have no other. " ~ Abbey

[Guest guest]

LOL! that's a great line.

 

It's a matter of priority - when my friends look at me and say, " We can't afford to eat like you do. " I tell them I can't afford to dress the way they do, with their designer clothes and >$100 pairs of shoes (many of them!)  

 

Jen

 

I just tell those folks: " Now that's a great buy!!! Where else can you get the remnants of 300 different cows from all over the globe in one lb of burger??? " End of subject.at LoveTree

lovetreefarm.comBill said " When I get the " I can get burger at Walmart for $1.29 on sale. " routine, I say, " GO FOR IT! " If that dreck is what you want to feed your family, I will

not stand in your way. But if you want beef of a known source, humanely raised, free of the taint of artificial hormones and routine antibiotics, by all means talk to me. If you don't care want you feed your family, it is not

my responsibility to make it possible for you to do so free of choices and values. You decide what is important. " And then I drop it.If they want to continue the conversation, fine, I will eventually sell

them, if not, the sooner they quit wasting my time, the better. "

-- " Humility is a virtue when you have no other. " ~ Abbey

[Guest guest]

LOL! that's a great line.

 

It's a matter of priority - when my friends look at me and say, " We can't afford to eat like you do. " I tell them I can't afford to dress the way they do, with their designer clothes and >$100 pairs of shoes (many of them!)  

 

Jen

 

I just tell those folks: " Now that's a great buy!!! Where else can you get the remnants of 300 different cows from all over the globe in one lb of burger??? " End of subject.at LoveTree

lovetreefarm.comBill said " When I get the " I can get burger at Walmart for $1.29 on sale. " routine, I say, " GO FOR IT! " If that dreck is what you want to feed your family, I will

not stand in your way. But if you want beef of a known source, humanely raised, free of the taint of artificial hormones and routine antibiotics, by all means talk to me. If you don't care want you feed your family, it is not

my responsibility to make it possible for you to do so free of choices and values. You decide what is important. " And then I drop it.If they want to continue the conversation, fine, I will eventually sell

them, if not, the sooner they quit wasting my time, the better. "

-- " Humility is a virtue when you have no other. " ~ Abbey

[Guest guest]

And what is the eventual cost of "cheap" food when you factor in the enormous cost of medical care? I'll stick with expensive food and growing my own!

Barb in CO

Re: Re: Unfair fare: Why prices for meat from small local farms are too high

In truth the real value of the best raw milk is a lot closer to 14 thanto what the cheapest producers are asking. I suspect that in times pastthere were two types of people: those who could afford to buy food andthose who grew their own food. Our society added a third category withultra-cheap food that makes you sick (but not right away).PetePolly wrote:>> $14/gal? Honestly, I could not afford to buy milk at that cost. I do not> mind paying more for quality food, I buy local, usually organic chickens,> beef, pork, milk and eggs, and most of those items are more expensive> than> I could get them at the store, (in fact I drive 1 hour one way to pick up> my milk, so the cost of gas adds to that also) but there is a point at> which I would not be able to afford to buy quality. And $14/gal for milk> would be past that point. I buy 4 gallons a week from my farmer - that> would be more than 1/4 of my entire food budget for the week for a family> of 6. There is a point after which a person cannot afford things which> has> absolutely NOTHING to do with whether or not they are uneducated about> what> it takes to produce high quality food.>> JMO,> Polly>> nehrboss wrote:> > It all comes down to big Farms/dairies cutting corners to save money and> > keep cost down; people unrealistically comparing walmart prices with> > local quality (its just impossible); The qulaity that you would get from> > a local farmer is in no comparison to walmart products from mass> > produced farms, but yet people want the same or worse yet think local> > should be cheaper. When we are not milking I pay a local farmer> > $14/gallon of the best quality milk you will ever see. The> > reason...because I KNOW what I am getting...and...I KNOW what it takes> > to raise a few dairy cows. When my hubby dried up our cows and we> > started buying milk again at $14/gallon, my hubby said he thinks we are> > MAKING money!! That goes for everything from garden veggies to chickens> > & eggs to beef. Anyone who has a problem paying the prices are very> > uneducated about what it takes to produce high quality food.>>

[Guest guest]

But there are those of us who don't have the ability to grow/produce our

own food - or not much of it, and certainly not milk, eggs, and meat. That

is what our city-living society has done for many of us - made us dependent

on others for our food. There was a time when you could own some chickens

or a cow in my town, but laws have changed. While my dream is to own

acreage in the country some day and be as self-sufficient as possible, it

is not reality right now. In a perfect world, we would all have healthy,

nutrient dense foods, but some of us have to strike a balance between what

we want to eat and what we can afford.

Perhaps some farmers need to charge $14/gal in order to keep producing

quality milk. I am just thankful that my farmer is not one of them! Real

value or not, I have an even more real budget to deal with that limits my

choices, and so I do the best I can.

Polly

BarbaraJ wrote:

> And what is the eventual cost of " cheap " food when you factor in the

> enormous cost of medical care? I'll stick with expensive food and

> growing my own!

> Barb in CO

[Guest guest]

We all have our priorities. For some it is healthy food for others it is big

TVs, expensive cars and clothes.

Belinda

>

> LOL! that's a great line.

>

> It's a matter of priority - when my friends look at me and say, " We can't

> afford to eat like you do. " I tell them I can't afford to dress the way they

> do, with their designer clothes and >$100 pairs of shoes (many of them!)

>

> Jen

>

[Guest guest]

It is quite possible to produce most of your own food, even in the city.

Case in point:

http://www.pathtofreedom.com/about/urbanhomestead.shtml

We are only limited by our imagination and what we perceive is possible.

Polly wrote:

>

> But there are those of us who don't have the ability to grow/produce our

> own food - or not much of it, and certainly not milk, eggs, and meat.

> That

> is what our city-living society has done for many of us - made us

> dependent

> on others for our food. There was a time when you could own some chickens

> or a cow in my town, but laws have changed. While my dream is to own

> acreage in the country some day and be as self-sufficient as possible, it

> is not reality right now. In a perfect world, we would all have healthy,

> nutrient dense foods, but some of us have to strike a balance between

> what

> we want to eat and what we can afford.

>

> Perhaps some farmers need to charge $14/gal in order to keep producing

> quality milk. I am just thankful that my farmer is not one of them! Real

> value or not, I have an even more real budget to deal with that limits my

> choices, and so I do the best I can.

>

> Polly

>

> BarbaraJ wrote:

> > And what is the eventual cost of " cheap " food when you factor in the

> > enormous cost of medical care? I'll stick with expensive food and

> > growing my own!

> > Barb in CO

>

>