Whey

[Guest guest]

I've been wondering more about whey and Candida. The whey product

that I use has

Active Protein Fractions* per 10 gram serving

Lactoferrin 3.4% 285 mg

Immunoglobulins(IgG)16.1% 1.3 grams

Serum Albumin 2.5% 210 mg

alpha-lactalbumin 48.0%

beta-lactoglobulin 13.7%

There will be similarities between undenatured whey products

probably, but in any case, I looked up lactoferrin in the National

Medical Library and found several abstracts that indicate that

lactoferrin is an antifungal.

" Distinct antifungal activities of lactoferrin were observed against

clinical isolates of Candida "

Laurie L.

[Guest guest]

Hi

I tried whey protein years ago when I was on The Zone diet. I made a

concoction of vanilla whey protein, mixed with a little hot water, a teaspoon

of almond butter, and made it into a creamy paste. I took it with me to work

in a Tupperware and dipped sliced apples in it. Quite honestly it made for a

very good snack, and it held me for a nice few hours. I did not know that it

was an immune system builder. I just know that that diet was pretty good and

I lost 8 lbs in two weeks. I am going to find out more about it as you

sparked an interest. Thanks for the info. I really do believe, however,

from past experience, that building up the immune system is the way to go to

fight the miserable effects of Lyme.

Sue

[Guest guest]

Chris:

I took undenatured whey protien back when I had " CFS " . I used

immunocal, immune pro, and LEF (life extention foundation) brand.

Immunocal is the most expensive and LEF is by far the cheapest.

Opinions vary as to effectiveness, but most would buy the most

expensive if they could afford it. I can't say for sure that it

helped. I read most of the same stuff you probably did. It sure

can't hurt to boost glutathione levels though. It is supposed to be

one of the bodies most important antioxidants and bound to be

depleted in the chronically ill. I heard a doctor say that it is the

thing that makes you feel better in chicken soup. Broccolli is also

high in glutathione, but the main sources seem to be animal protiens.

When I took it, it seemed like a good bet. Mostly because people can

have herxing reactions on it. I also had trouble with my breathing

mechanism wanting to shut down which DR. Cheney thought was from

blood alkalosis ultimately caused by glutatione depletion causing

metabolic acidity- all due to infection. Those problems did go away

on whey and magnesium shots.

It seemed like Cheney did a very small study, saw some real

good results, and got very excited. In the long run it wasn't all

that great for most people. That seems typical of CFS/FM research.

Makes a lot of supplement companies a lot of money though.

. Undenatured whey, via increased glutatione, is supposed to

be good for removing heavy metals too. In a money no object

situation I might still take it, but it is quite expensive. If I had

herxed on it, I would be even more inclined, but I didn't. I think

that all those supplements probably kept me from spiraling further

into chronic illness, but not much more.

Correcting specific things like glutathione depletion is the

place that I think CFS research might benefit us in the long run.

But it is really just like putting on tons of bandaids and refilling

leaking fluid levels if you aren't treating a causative infection.

They are hoping to get the body to take over and heal itself, but it

seems like a long shot in long term chronically ill people, and The

success rate seems pretty dismal- at least it did as of a year and a

half ago. Seemed like most people getting substantial results on my

CFS/FM list were taking antibiotics. Except for one who uses bee

venom therapy and is 100% as long as she keeps it up.

Grasping at one vague treatment possibility after another

with very little promising results is a nightmare that I would not

care to re-live. Reading these lists it might appear at times that

lyme treatment options are pretty dismal, but they are worlds better

than that pit of a diagnosis called CFS.

E.

>I was just curious if anyone has tried whey on this group. UN-

>denatured whey protein such as immunocal is used by some people with

>fibromyalgia with good success.

[Guest guest]

I needed t hear what you said here. I have grasped at straws for years

w/ CFS, although I must say I never totally bought into the diagnosis

because I was first told mt problems were candida and chemical

sensitivity. Supplements did help and have kept my head above water. BUT

I have lost ground in the last few years and

I guess now I am ready to try life as a lymie--anything is better than

CFS :-)--you are right.

Keddie

[Guest guest]

> Grasping at one vague treatment possibility after another

> with very little promising results is a nightmare that I would not

> care to re-live.

Thanks for the reply. I couldn't agree more, and thats why I also

wrote something to the tune of " whole aproach " . Antibiotics only

help our immune system fight the disease, but in the end its our

immune system that needs to finish the battle. From the few I have

spoken or written to, it appears that those people that are

successfull in some type of recovery, are those individuals that have

come up with a plan to aid there body as a whole.

I couldn't agree more and liked the band-aid analogy. However, if its

a piece of the puzzle and its missing, then everything else is a

waste of time as well.

I have never liked these one fits all types of cure. It is rarely

that easy. My new approach is as follows.

1. Continue on abx until such time that I'm feeling better, assuming

my dr. gells with that idea.

2. whey protien, to increase intercellular gluthion - a proven

deficiency in the chronically ill.

3. transfer factor, also to aid in the immune building process.

4. psyllium, bentonite to help keep the GI tract clean of debris and

yeast.

5. Candex and probiotics to aid in inevitable yeast horror.

6. Rife machine (which I get today) to help zap those buggers out of

there.

7. Vitamins

8. Anything else that might work. I have read about bee venom and

think that may be something to look more into. Silver is another

source of some success stories, as is lichen.

Like I said, I believe there is a " whole aproach " . If you need to

build a car, and you get the whole thing put together only to realize

you forgot to buy wheels, the car still won't work. A car needs

many many pieces to function correctly, and the human body needs many

many more than a car.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Sue,

Thanks for the reply. Actually, the whey I'm speaking of is

SPECIFICALLY, NON-DENATURED and is very fragile. It will not work if

taken with other food, because digestive enzymes will break it down.

What do you take to build your immune system and has it helped??

Chris

[Guest guest]

I come from the world of CFIDS and I've tried immunepro (not as

expensive as immunocal) in tiny amounts. I had brutal herxes--it is

a lot more powerful than immunocal or other wheys. This is not your

usual whey or even undenatured whey. I don't really know if this was

a herx or some other bad reaction (the same way I feel about

Rocephin). I am crazy enough to try immunepro again but only every

other day. I agree that a CFIDS diagnosis is something of pit, but I

improved with this diagnosis (using heparin and supplements) over six

months. On the other hand, I had no where to go except sideways or

up.

Kell

> I was just curious if anyone has tried whey on this group. UN-

> denatured whey protein such as immunocal is used by some people

with

> fibromyalgia with good success. The theory I can best describe is

> that fibro and chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) patients have a poopy

> immune system at best. Intercellular gluthion is depleted, which

is

> greatly responsible for immune function. Dr. Cheney through a small

> study he did showed that at certain levels of whey, his patients

> tested negative for certain bacteria after treatment, but had

> previously tested positive pre-treatment.

>

> I do not think whey is a magic bullet. I dont know enough about

lyme

> yet, but my best guess is that if you dont kill it outright in the

> beggining, it probably hangs out in your system. HOWEVER, I also

> think that some people get better because they have or have built

up

> a stronger immune system to suppress lyme from an active state.

>

> Its a long shot, but I wonder if anyone has tried UN denatured whey

> protein or has read anything about it. I have also been looking

at

> transfer factor in addition to whey, as well as eating habits, rife

> etc. to help support a recovery.

>

> Is whey a piece in the puzzle for recovery. I don't know, but I

> would be interested in hearing what you know about it.

>

> Thanks,

> Chris

>

> PS. Here is a link to a websight supported by the -groups

whey

> moderator. On his page is articles from cheney (a CFS

specialist).

> Dont run out and take a bunch of whey, because it can have very

> serious healing crisis reactions even at small doses for many

people.

>

> http://pages.cthome.net/xx/whey.htm

[Guest guest]

>I couldn't agree more and liked the band-aid analogy. However, if its

>a piece of the puzzle and its missing, then everything else is a

>waste of time as well.

Yeah, except that some of the pieces will correct themselves when the

infection is suppressed by ABX and our immune systems. It's hard to

know which things to supplement/stimulate sometimes. I can only

afford to spend so much on designer supplements or normal supplements

for that matter. Given unlimited resources, I would do a lot more-

Hyperbaric oxygen for instance. Best of luck, sounds like a good

plan. I'm thinking that when I go off ABX, I will bridge with

herbals and bee venom as maintenance, and then maybe nuke them one

last time with ABX when I'm nice and healthy. But that's just a

nebulous idea right now.

E.

[Guest guest]

Dear

Thanks for the info on the whey. I was not familiar with it. In response to

your question as to what I am doing for the immune system, I am doing a whole

food grade Chinese herb plan called Sunrider. It is based on the theory from

ancient China, that if the body is nourished properly, it can regenerate. I

have been doing this for seven years with tremendous success, and had

neurological third stage Lyme from 1989-1995. My whole family was sick with

Lyme, along with me, especially my daughter, who was extremely ill. She had

memory loss, muscle weakness and swelling in her joints. At 9 years old she

was on crutches for 7 months. At 12 years old she was in a hospital bed in

my family room as she couldn't walk upstairs and was hooked up to a 24 hour

i.v. pump of amoxicillin for 5 months, which was only because I dumped my

pediatrician and went with a wonderful rheumatoligist in Neptune, NJ, At

that time I was so grateful for everything he did for her, but in the long

run, if I knew then what I know now, it wasn't the greatest that he treated

her for so long because it greatly lowered her immune system. Perhaps if was

done initially when she first got sick in 1989, instead of a 28 day course of

rosephen, it may have been helpful to zap it that long.

Anyway, this herbal food plan has given us back our lives. My daughter is

now a young adult and out on her own and doing wonderfully, but she still is

doing Sunrider to keep up her immune system. I can pretty much head off a

cold or flu by eating and drinking these products and have recovered from 3rd

stage neurological Lyme. It doesn't mean that those damn little spirochetes

are gone from my body, but my immune system is strong enough to fight them

off. I have helped a number of people to learn this food plan so that they

can regain their health from Lyme, CFS, EBV. Those who were patient, as I

was and stayed with it did very well. I have had a lot of training on the

theories behind ancient Chinese medicine, and it is so easy to understand,

and makes so much sense. Chinese medicine is " regeneration " - western

medicine is " substitution, " like a Band-Aid effect. You can't buy this

stuff from the healthfood store. It is very specialized and quality

controlled so you get it right from the manufacturer by calling a toll free #

and it is delivered to your door. They charge $6.50 for shipping. If you

want more info, please feel free to contact me.

Sue Rauch

[Guest guest]

Pinekell wrote:

>I agree that a CFIDS diagnosis is something of pit, but I

improved with this diagnosis (using heparin and supplements) over six

months.

I took the Berg blood coagulation tests and came up normal

inspite of really low Sed rates which he said was absolutely

indicative of hypercoagulation. I probably should've tried Heparin

anyway. Bee venom has anticoagulant effects and I get the idea that

it will increase circulation and capillary flow, but I don't know

enough to elaborate at this point.

E.

[Guest guest]

>Sue,

>

>Thanks for the reply. Actually, the whey I'm speaking of is

>SPECIFICALLY, NON-DENATURED and is very fragile.

It is also quite expensive unlike the common whey powders used to

build muscle mass.

E.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/23/02 9:07:35 PM, @... writes:

<< I'm thinking that when I go off ABX, I will bridge with

herbals and bee venom as maintenance, and then maybe nuke them one

last time with ABX when I'm nice and healthy. But that's just a

nebulous idea right now.

>>

-

Nebulous but not impossible.

I did abx for 3 1/2 yrs., am now FINALLY off for the past 7 mos and doing

just herbals, vitamins, rife, etc. and doing well. I personally feel that it

is a good idea to look into various cleanses also..... colon cleansing, liver

detox, kidney detox, chelating metals, etc.

(if anyone wants info on any of these, please feel free to write me privately

@ lymehope@... or call me, 732 933-4011. This goes for any info.)

I have done most and it is amazing how much better one feels.

I also had babesia (still doing Zhang's artemesia with success), ehrlichia,

bartonella, mycoplasma fermentan, HHV-6 and Epstein barr. I will always have

lyme but will try my best to keep it dormant.

I also would like to comment about yeast.... candida albicans, which was

discussed earlier. The symptoms of yeast could be the same as lyme......aches

and pains, headaches, ear pain, etc. A great product to KILL yeast is Candex

by Pure Essence Labs. You can get it @ your health food store. It is a

natural way instead of Diflucan and Nystatin (both of which can wreak havoc

on your liver). Candex is a natural cellulase enzyme that penetrates the cell

wall of the yeast and kills it.

sue in nj

sue massie

[Guest guest]

some people react to milk but not yogurt. If you are one of these people,

you can take whey. Whey protein isolate will not re-acidify the colon,

though. You need to take a special whey for that. whey protein isolate, some

think, is a great protein supplement to take -- and I guess others think

not. but the idea of using whole food whey is not to get protein from it,

but to acidify the colon, so that pathogens cannot live in the colon and

your own acidophilus will thrive again.

> From: " n Reid " <marionreid@...>

> Reply-candidiasis

> Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 22:52:48 -0500

> <candidiasis >

> Subject: RE: Fw: NOTMILK - Just Say No Way - - To Whey!

>

> Does this mean that a whey protein powder is bad.

> Fw: NOTMILK - Just Say No Way - - To Whey!

>>

>> NOTMILK - Just Say No Way - - To Whey!

>>

>>

>> Just Say No Way - - To Whey!

>>

>> After fat and casein are removed from milk,

>> dairy processors are left with whey protein.

>> Whey is composed of bovine blood proteins.

>> Serum albumen. Lactalbumen. Dead white blood

>> cells. Hormonal residues including estrogen

>> and progesterone.

>>

>> The body's reaction to a foreign protein is to

>> destroy that antigen-like invader with an antibody.

>> For those individuals unfortunate enough to possess

>> a genetic pre-disposition to such an event, the

>> antibody then turns upon one's own cells. That is

>> what is known as an auto-immune response.

>>

>> In the case of diabetes and Multiple Sclerosis (MS),

>> the body's response to whey proteins is to attack the

>> outer membrane protecting nerve cells, or the myelin

>> sheath.

>>

>> It has long been established that early exposure to

>> bovine proteins is a trigger for insulin dependent

>> diabetes mellitus. Researchers have made that same

>> milk consumption connection to MS. The July 30, 1992

>> issue of the New England Journal of Medicine first

>> reported the diabetes autoimmune response milk

>> connection:

>>

>> " Patients with insulin dependent diabetes mellitus

>> produce antibodies to cow milk proteins that participate

>> in the development of islet dysfunction... Taken as a

>> whole, our findings suggest that an active response in

>> patients with IDDM (to the bovine protein) is a feature

>> of the auto-immune response. "

>>

>> On December 14, 1996, The Lancet revealed:

>>

>> " Cow's milk proteins are unique in one respect: in

>> industrialized countries they are the first foreign

>> proteins entering the infant gut, since most formulations

>> for babies are cow milk-based. The first pilot stage of

>> our IDD prevention study found that oral exposure to

>> dairy milk proteins in infancy resulted in both

>> cellular and immune response...this suggests the

>> possible importance of the gut immune system to the

>> pathogenesis of IDD. "

>>

>> THE MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS/MILK CONNECTION

>>

>> The April 1, 2001 issue of the Journal of Immunology

>> contained a study linking MS to milk consumption.

>>

>> Dosch, M.D., and his team of researchers

>> determined that multiple sclerosis and type I

>> (juvenile) diabetes mellitus are far more closely

>> linked than previously thought. Dosch attributes

>> exposure to cow milk protein as a risk factor in the

>> development of both diseases for people who are

>> genetically susceptible. According to Dosch:

>>

>> " We found that immunologically, type I diabetes and

>> multiple sclerosis are almost the same - in a test

>> tube you can barely tell the two diseases apart. We

>> found that the autoimmunity was not specific to the

>> organ system affected by the disease. Previously it

>> was thought that in MS autoimmunity would develop in

>> the central nervous system, and in diabetes it would

>> only be found in the pancreas. We found that both

>> tissues are targeted in each disease. "

>>

>> MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS

>>

>> Multiple sclerosis affects approximately

>> 300,000 Americans. Two-thirds of those diagnosed

>> with MS are women. Most researchers believe that

>> MS is an autoimmune disease. Auto means " self. "

>>

>> WHO DOES NOT GET MS?

>>

>> It is interesting to note that Eskimos and Bantus

>> (50 million individuals living in East Africa)

>> rarely get MS. Neither do those native North and

>> South American Indian or Asian populations who

>> consume no cow's milk or dairy products.

>>

>> WHO GETS MS?

>>

>> The British medical journal Lancet reported that

>> dairy-rich diets filled have been closely linked

>> to the development of MS. (The Lancet 1974;2:1061)

>>

>> A study published in the journal Neuroepidemiology

>> revealed an association between eating dairy foods

>> and an increased prevalence of MS.

>> (Neuroepidemiology 1992;11:304Â-12.)

>>

>> MS researcher, Luther Lindner, M.D., a pathologist

>> at Texas A & M University College of Medicine, wrote:

>>

>> " It might be prudent to limit the intake

>> of milk and milk products. "

>>

>> Women are targeted by dairy industry scare tactics

>> that offer misinformation regarding osteoporosis.

>> Two-thirds of MS victims are women. As milk and cheese

>> consumption increase along population lines, so too

>> does an epidemic number of MS cases. The numbers add up.

>> The clues add up. The science supports epidemiological

>> studies. Got diabetes? Got MS? The milk connection has

>> been established.

>>

>> Whey protein? Say no way!

>>

>> Cohen

>> http://www.notmilk.com

>>

>>

>> ----------------------------------------------------

>> THE NOTMILK NEWSLETTER:

>> SUBSCRIBE: send an empty Email to-

>> notmilk-subscribe

>> UNSUBSCRIBE: send an empty Email to-

>> notmilk-unsubscribe

>>

>> Forward this message to your milk-drinking friends:

>> MILK from A to Z: http://www.notmilk.com/milkatoz.html

>> 2O QUESTIONS: http://www.notmilk.com/notmilkfaq.html

>>

>> What is an excellent alternative for NOTMILK?

>>

>> http://www.soytoy.com ... make your own grain milks!

>> SoyToy recipes forum: soytoy-subscribe

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

What is that special whey?

Fw: NOTMILK - Just Say No Way - - To Whey!

>>

>> NOTMILK - Just Say No Way - - To Whey!

>>

>>

>> Just Say No Way - - To Whey!

>>

>> After fat and casein are removed from milk,

>> dairy processors are left with whey protein.

>> Whey is composed of bovine blood proteins.

>> Serum albumen. Lactalbumen. Dead white blood

>> cells. Hormonal residues including estrogen

>> and progesterone.

>>

>> The body's reaction to a foreign protein is to

>> destroy that antigen-like invader with an antibody.

>> For those individuals unfortunate enough to possess

>> a genetic pre-disposition to such an event, the

>> antibody then turns upon one's own cells. That is

>> what is known as an auto-immune response.

>>

>> In the case of diabetes and Multiple Sclerosis (MS),

>> the body's response to whey proteins is to attack the

>> outer membrane protecting nerve cells, or the myelin

>> sheath.

>>

>> It has long been established that early exposure to

>> bovine proteins is a trigger for insulin dependent

>> diabetes mellitus. Researchers have made that same

>> milk consumption connection to MS. The July 30, 1992

>> issue of the New England Journal of Medicine first

>> reported the diabetes autoimmune response milk

>> connection:

>>

>> " Patients with insulin dependent diabetes mellitus

>> produce antibodies to cow milk proteins that participate

>> in the development of islet dysfunction... Taken as a

>> whole, our findings suggest that an active response in

>> patients with IDDM (to the bovine protein) is a feature

>> of the auto-immune response. "

>>

>> On December 14, 1996, The Lancet revealed:

>>

>> " Cow's milk proteins are unique in one respect: in

>> industrialized countries they are the first foreign

>> proteins entering the infant gut, since most formulations

>> for babies are cow milk-based. The first pilot stage of

>> our IDD prevention study found that oral exposure to

>> dairy milk proteins in infancy resulted in both

>> cellular and immune response...this suggests the

>> possible importance of the gut immune system to the

>> pathogenesis of IDD. "

>>

>> THE MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS/MILK CONNECTION

>>

>> The April 1, 2001 issue of the Journal of Immunology

>> contained a study linking MS to milk consumption.

>>

>> Dosch, M.D., and his team of researchers

>> determined that multiple sclerosis and type I

>> (juvenile) diabetes mellitus are far more closely

>> linked than previously thought. Dosch attributes

>> exposure to cow milk protein as a risk factor in the

>> development of both diseases for people who are

>> genetically susceptible. According to Dosch:

>>

>> " We found that immunologically, type I diabetes and

>> multiple sclerosis are almost the same - in a test

>> tube you can barely tell the two diseases apart. We

>> found that the autoimmunity was not specific to the

>> organ system affected by the disease. Previously it

>> was thought that in MS autoimmunity would develop in

>> the central nervous system, and in diabetes it would

>> only be found in the pancreas. We found that both

>> tissues are targeted in each disease. "

>>

>> MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS

>>

>> Multiple sclerosis affects approximately

>> 300,000 Americans. Two-thirds of those diagnosed

>> with MS are women. Most researchers believe that

>> MS is an autoimmune disease. Auto means " self. "

>>

>> WHO DOES NOT GET MS?

>>

>> It is interesting to note that Eskimos and Bantus

>> (50 million individuals living in East Africa)

>> rarely get MS. Neither do those native North and

>> South American Indian or Asian populations who

>> consume no cow's milk or dairy products.

>>

>> WHO GETS MS?

>>

>> The British medical journal Lancet reported that

>> dairy-rich diets filled have been closely linked

>> to the development of MS. (The Lancet 1974;2:1061)

>>

>> A study published in the journal Neuroepidemiology

>> revealed an association between eating dairy foods

>> and an increased prevalence of MS.

>> (Neuroepidemiology 1992;11:304Â-12.)

>>

>> MS researcher, Luther Lindner, M.D., a pathologist

>> at Texas A & M University College of Medicine, wrote:

>>

>> " It might be prudent to limit the intake

>> of milk and milk products. "

>>

>> Women are targeted by dairy industry scare tactics

>> that offer misinformation regarding osteoporosis.

>> Two-thirds of MS victims are women. As milk and cheese

>> consumption increase along population lines, so too

>> does an epidemic number of MS cases. The numbers add up.

>> The clues add up. The science supports epidemiological

>> studies. Got diabetes? Got MS? The milk connection has

>> been established.

>>

>> Whey protein? Say no way!

>>

>> Cohen

>> http://www.notmilk.com

>>

>>

>> ----------------------------------------------------

>> THE NOTMILK NEWSLETTER:

>> SUBSCRIBE: send an empty Email to-

>> notmilk-subscribe

>> UNSUBSCRIBE: send an empty Email to-

>> notmilk-unsubscribe

>>

>> Forward this message to your milk-drinking friends:

>> MILK from A to Z: http://www.notmilk.com/milkatoz.html

>> 2O QUESTIONS: http://www.notmilk.com/notmilkfaq.html

>>

>> What is an excellent alternative for NOTMILK?

>>

>> http://www.soytoy.com ... make your own grain milks!

>> SoyToy recipes forum: soytoy-subscribe

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

whole food whey that you make yourself by straining yogurt in a cheese cloth

or that you buy powdered. the best price I have found is at www.thewholewhey

which is the website where the author of the book I read on this sells his

book and a small assortment of recommended products. the book I read on this

is called acidophilus and colon health and it was only 5.99 at the store and

was a very interesting read. I recommend it.

> From: " n Reid " <marionreid@...>

> Reply-candidiasis

> Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:44:27 -0500

> <candidiasis >

> Subject: RE: WHEY

>

> What is that special whey?

> Fw: NOTMILK - Just Say No Way - - To Whey!

>>>

>>> NOTMILK - Just Say No Way - - To Whey!

>>>

>>>

>>> Just Say No Way - - To Whey!

>>>

>>> After fat and casein are removed from milk,

>>> dairy processors are left with whey protein.

>>> Whey is composed of bovine blood proteins.

>>> Serum albumen. Lactalbumen. Dead white blood

>>> cells. Hormonal residues including estrogen

>>> and progesterone.

>>>

>>> The body's reaction to a foreign protein is to

>>> destroy that antigen-like invader with an antibody.

>>> For those individuals unfortunate enough to possess

>>> a genetic pre-disposition to such an event, the

>>> antibody then turns upon one's own cells. That is

>>> what is known as an auto-immune response.

>>>

>>> In the case of diabetes and Multiple Sclerosis (MS),

>>> the body's response to whey proteins is to attack the

>>> outer membrane protecting nerve cells, or the myelin

>>> sheath.

>>>

>>> It has long been established that early exposure to

>>> bovine proteins is a trigger for insulin dependent

>>> diabetes mellitus. Researchers have made that same

>>> milk consumption connection to MS. The July 30, 1992

>>> issue of the New England Journal of Medicine first

>>> reported the diabetes autoimmune response milk

>>> connection:

>>>

>>> " Patients with insulin dependent diabetes mellitus

>>> produce antibodies to cow milk proteins that participate

>>> in the development of islet dysfunction... Taken as a

>>> whole, our findings suggest that an active response in

>>> patients with IDDM (to the bovine protein) is a feature

>>> of the auto-immune response. "

>>>

>>> On December 14, 1996, The Lancet revealed:

>>>

>>> " Cow's milk proteins are unique in one respect: in

>>> industrialized countries they are the first foreign

>>> proteins entering the infant gut, since most formulations

>>> for babies are cow milk-based. The first pilot stage of

>>> our IDD prevention study found that oral exposure to

>>> dairy milk proteins in infancy resulted in both

>>> cellular and immune response...this suggests the

>>> possible importance of the gut immune system to the

>>> pathogenesis of IDD. "

>>>

>>> THE MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS/MILK CONNECTION

>>>

>>> The April 1, 2001 issue of the Journal of Immunology

>>> contained a study linking MS to milk consumption.

>>>

>>> Dosch, M.D., and his team of researchers

>>> determined that multiple sclerosis and type I

>>> (juvenile) diabetes mellitus are far more closely

>>> linked than previously thought. Dosch attributes

>>> exposure to cow milk protein as a risk factor in the

>>> development of both diseases for people who are

>>> genetically susceptible. According to Dosch:

>>>

>>> " We found that immunologically, type I diabetes and

>>> multiple sclerosis are almost the same - in a test

>>> tube you can barely tell the two diseases apart. We

>>> found that the autoimmunity was not specific to the

>>> organ system affected by the disease. Previously it

>>> was thought that in MS autoimmunity would develop in

>>> the central nervous system, and in diabetes it would

>>> only be found in the pancreas. We found that both

>>> tissues are targeted in each disease. "

>>>

>>> MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS

>>>

>>> Multiple sclerosis affects approximately

>>> 300,000 Americans. Two-thirds of those diagnosed

>>> with MS are women. Most researchers believe that

>>> MS is an autoimmune disease. Auto means " self. "

>>>

>>> WHO DOES NOT GET MS?

>>>

>>> It is interesting to note that Eskimos and Bantus

>>> (50 million individuals living in East Africa)

>>> rarely get MS. Neither do those native North and

>>> South American Indian or Asian populations who

>>> consume no cow's milk or dairy products.

>>>

>>> WHO GETS MS?

>>>

>>> The British medical journal Lancet reported that

>>> dairy-rich diets filled have been closely linked

>>> to the development of MS. (The Lancet 1974;2:1061)

>>>

>>> A study published in the journal Neuroepidemiology

>>> revealed an association between eating dairy foods

>>> and an increased prevalence of MS.

>>> (Neuroepidemiology 1992;11:304Â-12.)

>>>

>>> MS researcher, Luther Lindner, M.D., a pathologist

>>> at Texas A & M University College of Medicine, wrote:

>>>

>>> " It might be prudent to limit the intake

>>> of milk and milk products. "

>>>

>>> Women are targeted by dairy industry scare tactics

>>> that offer misinformation regarding osteoporosis.

>>> Two-thirds of MS victims are women. As milk and cheese

>>> consumption increase along population lines, so too

>>> does an epidemic number of MS cases. The numbers add up.

>>> The clues add up. The science supports epidemiological

>>> studies. Got diabetes? Got MS? The milk connection has

>>> been established.

>>>

>>> Whey protein? Say no way!

>>>

>>> Cohen

>>> http://www.notmilk.com

>>>

>>>

>>> ----------------------------------------------------

>>> THE NOTMILK NEWSLETTER:

>>> SUBSCRIBE: send an empty Email to-

>>> notmilk-subscribe

>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: send an empty Email to-

>>> notmilk-unsubscribe

>>>

>>> Forward this message to your milk-drinking friends:

>>> MILK from A to Z: http://www.notmilk.com/milkatoz.html

>>> 2O QUESTIONS: http://www.notmilk.com/notmilkfaq.html

>>>

>>> What is an excellent alternative for NOTMILK?

>>>

>>> http://www.soytoy.com ... make your own grain milks!

>>> SoyToy recipes forum: soytoy-subscribe

>>>

>>>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/23/04 1:46:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

duncancrow@... writes:

> If the cheap whey you're talking about is not " cold processed " , it's

> not " undenatured " , meaning the peptides are broken so it will not

> produce the healing glutathione in the cells. This is an important

> consideration because low glutathione and resulting chronic oxidative

> stress is associated with most diseases.

>

> Also, cooked whey has not nearly the biological value as cold-

> processed, dropping down to about 104 from 160 on the Biological

> Value scale.

are you also advocating the avoidance of ion exchange whey? Do they still

make ion exchange whey?

(i.e., the acid or base added to the process, even if " cold " , would denature

the protein)

[Guest guest]

> are you also advocating the avoidance of ion exchange whey? Do they

> still make ion exchange whey?

They still make ion-exchanged whey. I think it recovers some

undenatured fractions but that doesn't mean that the whey that they

started with is undenatured. Then, how much cystine,

glutamylcysteine or glutamylcysteinylcysteine left will depend on

which proteins have been damaged.

>

> (i.e., the acid or base added to the process, even if " cold " , would

> denature the protein)

>

I haven't heard that before. Heat and mechanical agitation are the

primary means that whey is undenatured.

regards,

Duncan Crow

[Guest guest]

sorry for the delay in responding. To refresh, I've quoted your entire

previous post. The topic concerns which fractions are damaged (or not) by

processing. Let me reference this page:

http://www.maxsportsmag.com/science/issue40/40sci2.htm

If you don't have time to read the entire page, there is a table near the top

which summarizes. It's not exactly authoritative; though it does also point

out the concern over biologically active fractions like IGF-1, which become

absent as the percentage of protein goes higher - i.e., concentrate is better on

that score than isolate. (These cocnerns over processing damage also relate to

a person who is allergic to some particluar fraction - which I myself might

be. E.g., heating milk might alleviate allergy, if the offending fraction can

be denatured - though the most likely suspects for allergy seem to be the most

resistant to denaturing.)

However, one thing occurs to me: why is there the concern over denaturing

protein in the first place? To assemble glutathione, the body first needs to

denature the whey proteins with stomach acid, then cleave them into amino acids

with enzymes. So denaturing is a necessary part of the process, and why can't it

have been done in processing rather than in vivo? The only think I can think

of is that the cystine dipeptide needs to be undenatured. Is that so? Or not?

These things are important to me because of possible allergy, ans also

because I want to try your advice on boosting glutathione.

In a message dated 8/29/04 1:17:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

duncancrow@... writes:

>

> >The question then becomes: how much, and which fractions, are damaged

> >by the reagents used in ion exchange - and what fractions are left.

> >(The acid(s) create the ionization which allows components of whey to

> >be separated out by their resulting charge.)

>

> I don't know why anyone would care except as an academic exercise,

> and here's why:

>

> The glutathione producing fractions are still undenatured so we have

> the huge amounts of glutathione precursors.

>

> The whey still has the highest biological value of any protein and it

> contains all of the essential amino acids.

>

> Maybe I missed the point of your question. Myself, I had no reason to

> look further. Please let me know if you find some information that

> might be significant.

>

> Incidentally, I'm going to be adding a bulk, cold-processed whey

> ISOLATE to my website soon, for the people who don't care for

> flavoured, sweetened (with sucralose) Dyna Whey.

>

>

[Guest guest]

> However, one thing occurs to me: why is there the concern over

> denaturing protein in the first place? To assemble glutathione, the

> body first needs to denature the whey proteins with stomach acid, then

> cleave them into amino acids with enzymes. So denaturing is a

> necessary part of the process, and why can't it have been done in

> processing rather than in vivo? The only think I can think of is that

> the cystine dipeptide needs to be undenatured. Is that so? Or not?

That's exactly incorrect when it comes to glutathione production,

although some glutathione production can arise from ample amino acids

being present.

Your bowel lumen directly absorbs the chief whey components

undenatured; they are already absorbable not as individual amino

acids, but as peptides, which are made of two or more amino acids and

sometimes joined with a mineral.

In this case glutamylcysteine, which is glutamine and cysteine joined

together, cystine, which is two cysteines joined together, and

cysteinylglytamylcysteine, which is two cysteines and a glutamine,

are the important precursors that are directly absorbed from the

undenatured whey. These must remain unbroken, undenatured, until they

are absorbed into the cells, at which point they then are broken and

utilized. If they are broken befored hand, they don't get into the

cells where 90% of the glutathione is needed.

Conversely, cysteine, the rate-limiting factor in glutathione

production itself, in its free, unbound form is treated by the body

as a toxin, produces toxic matabolites, and associated toxic side

effects. In its free form its effect on glutathione production is

nearly absent.

I'd recommend getting Jimmy Gutman, M.D.s book Glutathione: Your

Body's Most Powerful Healing Agent as a reference.

Duncan Crow

[Guest guest]

Common sense and I agree. No product out there is going to save you

from yourself. You have to make the changes in your life that

matter. Most people won't realize it until they have tried them all

though. some never give up. cleanse the body, exercise, eat healthy,

live in balance with nature... these things will restore health.

g

> > I'd recommend getting Jimmy Gutman, M.D.s book Glutathione: Your

> > Body's Most Powerful Healing Agent as a reference.

> >

> every time I see a title like this that claims one thing does so

much I

> doubt it's true. I see these claims for every thing natural under

the sun.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Common sense and I agree. No product out there is going to save you

> from yourself. You have to make the changes in your life that matter.

> Most people won't realize it until they have tried them all though.

> some never give up. cleanse the body, exercise, eat healthy, live in

> balance with nature... these things will restore health.

>

> g

It makes good sense to not overlook glutathione's role in health and

aging. The research in thousands of documents is clear: naturally

falling glutathione production is one of the things that have been

identified as a requisite for both age-related degeneration and

illness. Also, infection is stimulated as glutathione levels drop.

regards,

Duncan Crow

duncancrow/

--- live and help live... ---

[Guest guest]

Thankfully you can get all your body needs from real food and are not

forced to spend exorbitant amounts on snake oil. we all age, and no

product will allow someone with a bad diet and lifestyle to live

forever. there is absolutely no need to buy such a product.

> > Common sense and I agree. No product out there is going to save

you

> > from yourself. You have to make the changes in your life that

matter.

> > Most people won't realize it until they have tried them all

though.

> > some never give up. cleanse the body, exercise, eat healthy, live

in

> > balance with nature... these things will restore health.

> >

> > g

>

> It makes good sense to not overlook glutathione's role in health

and

> aging. The research in thousands of documents is clear: naturally

> falling glutathione production is one of the things that have been

> identified as a requisite for both age-related degeneration and

> illness. Also, infection is stimulated as glutathione levels drop.

>

> regards,

>

>

>

> Duncan Crow

> duncancrow/

>

> --- live and help live... ---

[Guest guest]

You sure sound like somone who has never tried a good health enhancing

product. Do you remember the difference you felt going from sick to OK?

There is another level going from OK to rejuvenated ...

www.life-enthusiast.com

Re: whey

> Thankfully you can get all your body needs from real food and are not

> forced to spend exorbitant amounts on snake oil. we all age, and no

> product will allow someone with a bad diet and lifestyle to live

> forever. there is absolutely no need to buy such a product.

>

>

>

>

> > > Common sense and I agree. No product out there is going to save

> you

> > > from yourself. You have to make the changes in your life that

> matter.

> > > Most people won't realize it until they have tried them all

> though.

> > > some never give up. cleanse the body, exercise, eat healthy, live

> in

> > > balance with nature... these things will restore health.

> > >

> > > g

> >

> > It makes good sense to not overlook glutathione's role in health

> and

> > aging. The research in thousands of documents is clear: naturally

> > falling glutathione production is one of the things that have been

> > identified as a requisite for both age-related degeneration and

> > illness. Also, infection is stimulated as glutathione levels drop.

> >

> > regards,

> > Duncan Crow

> > duncancrow/

> >

[Guest guest]

-

Actually I tried many scores of products before I realized that,

though they might alleviate some symptoms, they rarely do anything at

all about real healing. Most products just prey on people's fears

and vulnerabilities, their hopes and desire to get better. In my

mind real health is achieved through removing the factors that led to

illness and adopting a healthy life, attitude,diet and lifestyle.

the vast majority of products marketed to sick people do nothing more

than distract from returning to real health (while cleaning out

people's wallets). I especially dislike the products that you are

supposed to have to take the rest of your life, for maintenance ect.

its a crock. its fine that many people will disagree with me, this

is an open forum and we all have our opinions.

g

> > > > Common sense and I agree. No product out there is going to

save

> > you

> > > > from yourself. You have to make the changes in your life that

> > matter.

> > > > Most people won't realize it until they have tried them all

> > though.

> > > > some never give up. cleanse the body, exercise, eat healthy,

live

> > in

> > > > balance with nature... these things will restore health.

> > > >

> > > > g

> > >

> > > It makes good sense to not overlook glutathione's role in health

> > and

> > > aging. The research in thousands of documents is clear:

naturally

> > > falling glutathione production is one of the things that have

been

> > > identified as a requisite for both age-related degeneration and

> > > illness. Also, infection is stimulated as glutathione levels

drop.

> > >

> > > regards,

> > > Duncan Crow

> > > duncancrow/

> > >

[Guest guest]

, you have revealed once more your bias if not ignorance of this

particular subject.

As a real food, whey has been important for thousands of years as

part of a good diet and lifestyle. The ancient Italians had two

sayings about it “If everybody drank more whey, the doctors would be

bankrupt " , and “If you want to live a long time, eat raw vegetables

and drink whey " . They had never heard of the glutathione-enhancing

properties.

But in modern times we have discovered that we can improve the clout

of this important product for therapeutic, curative use. It takes 500

gallons of milk to produce 10 grams of high-alpha whey isolate

powder. Many people experience dramatic gains on it, but some, not

until they hit 30 grams, a feat they wouldn't have been able to

approach by drinking a natural product. In this case, concentrated

product is a god thing.

For what it can do, it can easily be seen that cold-processed whey

prices are not exorbitant, and classing the product as snake oil that

no one needs serves no purpose except to confuse your readers.

Also, with regard to your comment on lifespan, we know nobody will

live forever. However, high doses of cold-processed whey are better

for you than meat; the bioavailable protein induces better growth

hormone levels, preservation of which is probably the most important

feature behind the longevity movement.

I agree with you on diet and lifestyle, but even with those in place,

one can still practice anti-aging by attending to growth hormone and

glutathione levels, both of which fall naturally with age, even in

the presence of good diet and lifestyle, with unpleasant and

unhealthy consequences.

This is all part of the dialogue the anti-aging specialists give

during their seminars. I know, I've hosted them in my town. The books

they wrote following the research on these subjects are recommended

reading.

regards,

Duncan Crow

>

> Thankfully you can get all your body needs from real food and are not

> forced to spend exorbitant amounts on snake oil. we all age, and no

> product will allow someone with a bad diet and lifestyle to live

> forever. there is absolutely no need to buy such a product.

>

>