Whey

[Guest guest]

Hi Jeanne,

The whey I get from yogurt does have a slightly sour smell, and it

only takes about 24 hours for the whey to drain. I don't know about

kefir though. You were making kefir?

Lara

> Is whey made from milk supposed to have a slightly

> sour smell?

>

> It took a long time, 4 or 5 days, for the curds and

> the whey to separate, and I am worried that maybe it

> went bad in the process. Or maybe the separation was

> slow, because the milk was pasturized?

>

> Before trying to make yogurt today, I thought I'd ask.

> I don't want to make myself sick...

>

> Gracias, jne ots

[Guest guest]

Dear

You can use whey for soaking grains instead of lemon juice, if you are

okay on it, and it would make it taste much better than lemon juice.

It would be great for flapjacks too.

Bee

>

> We put some kefir and yogurt in cheescloth to separate the whey. In

> Nourishing Traditions (thanks for recommending the book, Bee), she

says

> 1 T whey with meals aids digestion. Well, it's the color of Mountain

> Dew and tastes WOW. Is this normal? Also, NT recommends 2 T whey for

> soaking grains. Should this be done for buckwheat flour? Would it

make > flapjacks impossible?

> Thanks!

> MC

[Guest guest]

Would you share what proportions you use...your 'concoction' sounds exactly like

what I need. Thanks.

szukipoo@... wrote:In a message dated 4/29/05:

Solgar makes a great tasting whey powder (vanilla). I mix it with NOW liquid

glucosamine/organic pure cranberry juice/fermented soy powder (Jarrow) and Agave

(Sweet Cactus Farm) and have this drink every morning for breakfast!

[Guest guest]

> > I want to add undenatured whey to my diet but I'm overwhelmed right

> > now and I don't know what kind or brand to get. Does anyone have any

> > experience with this?

> >

>

> Yes! Solgar makes a great tasting whey powder (vanilla). I mix it

> with NOW liquid glucosamine/organic pure cranberry juice/fermented soy

> powder (Jarrow) and Agave (Sweet Cactus Farm) and have this drink

> every morning for breakfast!

I did a search and found nothing to indicate Solgar's vanilla Whey To

Go is cold-processed. This is an important distinction because if it

is not, it is not undenatured whey and that makes it just another

protein supplement that does not produce glutathione.

Duncan Crow

[Guest guest]

Note: forwarded message attached.

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Yeah, we've discussed that off and on over the years. Basically,

you don't need whey ... NO traditional recipe uses it for

making ferments. I think back when she wrote the book, and no

one was fermenting, it seemed like a very available way to

jump start a ferment. But since then, all of us who were

inspired by her have come up with easier ways.

Whey also tends to make vegies mushy, which isn't desirable.

In general, to ferment any vegie, I use my Great-great-grandma's

recipe (which is also in the book Keeping Food Fresh ... it's

an old French method too).

1. Boil 1 qt water, 2T salt. Let it cool.

2. Add 2T vinegar.

3. Put your vegies in jars

4. Pour brine over vegies.

5. Cover with a plastic lid (they sell plastic screw-on lids

for mason jars: which is MUCH SAFER than the metal

ones. The metal ones seal, and the jars can explode. It

happens!).

You can add a little sugar too (it feeds the bacteria and changes

the ferment a little: a little fruit juice or say, chopped apples

do the same).

The vinegar makes the solution a bit acidic, and that plus

the salt " pushes " the bacteria in a tasty direction (so

you don't get the stinky slimy bacteria).

If the recipe doesn't require water, like, say, kraut,

just add enough salt so the chopped cabbage

tastes yummy, like a good soup. Too much salt

and it won't ferment. Toss in a little vinegar for luck.

Also, you don't need to do all the pounding she

recommends. Kraut does benefit from pounding

some, but if you don't feel like it, you can just

toss some salt and vinegar in with the chopped

cabbage, and let it sit until it wilts some. That

will allow you to pack it easier into the jars. Then

add some water. You can cover it with a salted

cabbage leaf if you want, and add a weight, but

mine comes out fine even when I don't.

It IS a good idea to boil the water though, unless

you use bottled or well-filtered water. Well

water, especially, has some very odd bacteria

in it.

Anyway, you came to the right place! This group

is fantastic and there are lots of experienced

folks here!

--

On 10/3/07, Eva family <bobsallyeva@...> wrote:

> Hi, I've got Nourishing Traditions which has got fermented veg and fruit

> recipes in it. I have made kefir and I would like to make some more

> fermented things. Fallon uses whey in her fermented veg. I've

> tried to make whey following her instructions but it doesn't seem to

> work. Is the whey essential or could I use something else at the

> beginning while I'm a complete newbie?

> Thanks

> Sally

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

thank you. She also says cover tightly and listening in here that

doesn't seem to be too good an idea. I agree, a great book. Absolutely

inspirational but it's very hard to get everything right. I've been

making bread for more than 20 years (not all the time) but I've only

just found a book that explains it properly, with enough detail, to

really improve my bread-making -- and finally explain what sourdough is,

why it matters and how to make it. It takes a whole book and she covers

the whole of cooking in one volume. I shall experiment -- but that will

be a whole lot easier if I don't have to include whey. What would you

recommend as a fermentation book? Is Keeping Food Fresh the best for

beginners?

Sally

[Guest guest]

Sally wrote: " What would you recommend as a fermentation book? "

~~~

Well, if I had to choose one to recommend--in this moment--it would have to be

Wild Fermentation by Sandor Katz. I love it. I recommend it to my students and

so far, it has been remarkably well received. It's not just recipes and how-to's

- - - it's much, much more.

Be well by Nature,

rose

http://walkinthewoods.byregion.net

read my blog at http://blog.myspace.com/walkinthewoods

" Then summer fades and passes and October comes. We'll smell smoke then, and

feel an unexpected sharpness, a thrill of nervousness, swift elation, a sense of

sadness and departure. " ~ Wolfe

[Guest guest]

thank you. I will explore it. I'm in the UK and fermentation seems to be

a much bigger thing in the States than it is here

Sally

Walk in the Woods wrote:

> Sally wrote: " What would you recommend as a fermentation book? "

>

> ~~~

>

> Well, if I had to choose one to recommend--in this moment--it would have to be

Wild Fermentation by Sandor Katz. I love it. I recommend it to my students and

so far, it has been remarkably well received. It's not just recipes and how-to's

- - - it's much, much more.

>

> Be well by Nature,

>

> rose

> http://walkinthewoods.byregion.net

> read my blog at http://blog.myspace.com/walkinthewoods

>

> " Then summer fades and passes and October comes. We'll smell smoke then, and

feel an unexpected sharpness, a thrill of nervousness, swift elation, a sense of

sadness and departure. " ~ Wolfe

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sandor Katz should sue Amazon.co.uk -- they give bigger billing to Sally

Fallon than to him.

Sally

Walk in the Woods wrote:

> Sally wrote: " What would you recommend as a fermentation book? "

>

> ~~~

>

> Well, if I had to choose one to recommend--in this moment--it would have to be

Wild Fermentation by Sandor Katz. I love it. I recommend it to my students and

so far, it has been remarkably well received. It's not just recipes and how-to's

- - - it's much, much more.

>

> Be well by Nature,

>

> rose

> http://walkinthewoods.byregion.net

> read my blog at http://blog.myspace.com/walkinthewoods

>

> " Then summer fades and passes and October comes. We'll smell smoke then, and

feel an unexpected sharpness, a thrill of nervousness, swift elation, a sense of

sadness and departure. " ~ Wolfe

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks so much for the detailed info. I am brand new too and dying to make

sauerkraut and Kim Chi, have all the ingredients here, but I am, sad to say,

scared, terrfied really.

I was about to make it with whey and now that I know, I will use your method. I

want unwilty, traditional tasting kraut. I hate very mushy stuff. I think your

recipe will give my desired results.

So how long does this take? I know with kraut the longer the better, but since I

want it yesterday, what is the minimum time? Also, if I so use my metal lids

(all I have right now), could I just let out the air out once in a while? Or

must I run out and get the plastic?

Any help with Kim Chi is also very welcome. Thanks a MILLION for the detailed

directions b/c I really don't have a clue what I am doing. Would like to try

Natto someday, but I think that is one for the experts, right?

Millie

[Guest guest]

I can't help with natto. That is one I have not made (nor eaten, in

fact, though I'd like to get there someday).

However, with kraut: cabbage really, really, wants to turn into kraut.

One day I had some kimchi ingredients ... salted cabbage ... and I

didn't have time to put them into jars, so the salted cabbage just sat

there on my counter for two days. It turned into kraut, more or less.

Cabbage has been BRED for this for hundreds of years. That is the

purpose of cabbage, in my book! It even has the bacteria built-in (the

bacteria for kraut are INTERNAL to the cabbage: not the soil bacteria

on the outside, which can ruin the taste).

So you don't need to be scared. Just cut up the cabbage into the form

you want (for kraut, that means cabbage-slivers). Toss it with some

salt (and, I prefer, vineger). Then either a) pound it to get it wilty

or let it set til it gets wilty. (I've done both: when my kids are

handy I give them a pounder and let them pound it, but otherwise I

just let it wilt: both methods work. Pack it into jars.

Metal lids work fine if you don't tighten the rings too tight. Mainly

you just want to allow the air to escape if the pressure is too much.

USUALLY kraut doesn't release much gas, so it isn't an issue, but

sometimes it gets really fizzy, maybe because the cabbage had more

sugar content. You can just release the gas if there is too much, but

the real problem comes when you store it for, say, 6 months. You'll

forget to release the gas, then POW! Kraut-decorated-fridge or

basement. The only reason you need lids at all is to keep the flies

out and to concentrate the CO2 (which is heavier than air, so it tends

to concentrate anyway). CO2 keeps the mold out. But a loose lid works

fine for this.

Keep in mind that the usual method for making kraut, in the old days,

was in an open barrel, with a wooden board to keep most of the kraut

submerged. Said barrels got a scum of yeast, and had flies in and out,

but the kraut was still good to eat. My Mom said she would scoop it

out by the handful, from the barrel on the porch, when the kids got

hungry. Right. Lots of bacterial control there (I'm sure the kids

washed their hands first ... not).

The time really depends on the temp, and on what kraut you like. The

" perfect " kraut temp is in the 60's, and some say an ideal kraut takes

a few months to mature. But shoot, we eat it whenever it starts

smelling like " kraut " . It does tend to mellow if you keep it in the

fridge for awhile. A root cellar would probably do better, but I don't

have one (yet!).

Kimchi is really just kraut made with Napa, plus added chili pepper.

Actually the Germans learned to make kraut from the Mongols, who took

an early version of kimchi with them on the road (maybe to avoid

scurvy). There are like 700 versions of kimchi though. You can ferment

about any vegie and it will taste good.

As for the " fear factor " ... if it comes out slimy and smelling like a

garbage can, don't eat it. If you are still worried, get some PH test

strips, or mix the result with some baking soda and see if it fizzes.

If your kraut is acidic, it's highly doubtful that it will be bad.

Actually, in the years I've been on these lists, no one has gotten

sick off homegrown kraut (even those who tasted the odd slimy batch).

Mostly though, the problematic results are when people try to make

" low salt " versions of kraut, which are harder to do.

I don't know that natto is " advanced " though. It seems to be pretty

easy. It's just that, well, I grew up on kraut so I know what it is

supposed to be. I did not grow up on natto, so I need to learn it.

--

On 10/4/07, Millie Krejci <moozy21@...> wrote:

> ,

>

> Thanks so much for the detailed info. I am brand new too and dying to make

sauerkraut and Kim Chi, have all the ingredients here, but I am, sad to say,

scared, terrfied really.

>

> I was about to make it with whey and now that I know, I will use your method.

I want unwilty, traditional tasting kraut. I hate very mushy stuff. I think your

recipe will give my desired results.

>

> So how long does this take? I know with kraut the longer the better, but since

I want it yesterday, what is the minimum time? Also, if I so use my metal lids

(all I have right now), could I just let out the air out once in a while? Or

must I run out and get the plastic?

>

> Any help with Kim Chi is also very welcome. Thanks a MILLION for the detailed

directions b/c I really don't have a clue what I am doing. Would like to try

Natto someday, but I think that is one for the experts, right?

>

> Millie

>

>

[Guest guest]

--- In nutrition , "

[Guest guest]

Patty,

Many people don't innoculate their ferments. I have found that if I innoculate

mine, even though they may have their own bacteria, I get a more predictable

flavor. (I should qualify that statement to say that I prefer the flavor I get

with my innoculant than what I have experienced of either non-innoculated or

whey innoculated vegetables.)

My innoculant is a product called Spectrabiotic which is a blend of eight

probiotic bacteria. I think that innoculating with this product gives my

vegetables a good start, which they may or may not get without it.

Ellis Hein

Re: whey

--- In nutrition , "

[Guest guest]

On 10/5/07, Patty <mellowsong@...> wrote:

> --- In nutrition , "

[Guest guest]

I make kefir and I make sourdough bread. I make them next door to one

another, side by side on top of my boiler. My sourdough starter looks a

bit like the wrinkly top on the kefir sometimes -- it doesn't look like

the book suggested it would. But it works like a bomb. At first I was

bothered but now I think -- well it's using kefir yeasts and it's a

brilliant rye starter, that's great

Sally

[Guest guest]

Well, I don't know what to call it unless it was just good ol' sour cream, but I

took a pint of whey and sqeezed half a lemon in it, capped it off and waited 48

hours until it separated and had some wonderful 'sour cream' for my potatoes.

The whey was from some skim milk that I had taken the cream off of and then let

it set until it had separated. Nice texture.

-- Bill

 

<Haecklers wrote:

Ricotta is made from the whey and gets the last of the milk solids, but they're

small and go right through cheesecloth. Whey makes EXCELLENT homemade bread. >

[Guest guest]

Depends how sensitive you are. Whey doesn't have *much* casein in it but it

does have some. I use kefir grains as a starter for soaking, usually as

" kefir beer " rather than whey.

On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Fieber <pfieber@...> wrote:

> I would like to know if a person who is casien sensitive can use whey for

> soaking grains, nuts and other ferments?

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Could you explain what your kefir beer is and how you make it. Then the kefir

beer could be used in place of the whey?

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