bankruptcy--health care

[Guest guest]

Very eloquently put, Bill. My heart goes out to you for the struggles

you have trying to get your child the help he/she needs. Our society

is all the poorer for not helping such children to become functioning,

contributing adults. This makes the point about why we need social

insurance (pooling risk to make care available to ALL regardless of

means) not actuarial insurance (which is all about making money for

the insurance companies by withholding care as often as they can get

away with it).

People often fear the health-care systems in other countries because

they heard of a bad anecdote, whereas there are plenty of homegrown

tales of misery in America under our present hodge-podge of a system.

We sometimes react to loaded terms like " rights " and " socialized "

without understanding what is meant, in many cases. That's why I keep

asking people to read up on what some very viable options are, based

on the largely positive experiences in other industrialized countries.

Once again, here is the frontline series:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/

.. No system is perfect, but ours is one of the worst. We have some

excellent doctors and hospitals, but they are increasingly controlled

by the for-profit insurance bureaucrats.

We are increasingly becoming a third world nation, with the rich and

upper middle class able to afford good care, and the poor not getting

any besides the occasional ER visit or charity clinic, and the balance

of the middle class living in constant fear of losing their insurance,

or dealing with insurance bureaucrats in a nightmare round of letters

and phone calls and paperwork to get reimbursement for care that's

supposed to be covered.

Someone saying they don't want health care insurance is tantamount to

saying they don't want health care. That boggles the mind. Talk about

cutting off your own nose to spite your face. What is the alternative?

I know we all try to stay healthy through diet, but we can't control

everything that happens to us. What if you're in the path of a drunk

driver? How will you get patched up without insurance? Will you just

pay thousands or tens of thousands out of pocket? How will the

hospitals stay open if they are not paid? How is this freedom?

Americans have a tradition of " rugged individualism " but at the same

time we have a tradition of pulling together to help each other.

However, leaving health care and charity for the poor to churches and

other voluntary groups has never been sufficient to deal with the

problem. I fear we are becoming so short-sighted and selfish in our

outlooks that the institutions of civil society are becoming weaker

and weaker and we could descend into anarchy. Not immediately, but if

present trends of weakening social safety nets continue. That's freedom?

Look around: citizens of Europe, Japan, Taiwan, Korea, Canada are not

slaves because they have a social insurance scheme of one sort or

another. In most cases they can also get private insurance or pay

extra for elective surgery etc. if they want to and have the means.

How is that worse than what we have? I just don't get why so many

Americans believe the crap the corporations feed the politicians and

talk-show hosts who spew hate and disinformation to the masses. It

breaks my heart. I'm glad I don't have kids.

A wealthy country like this ought to be able to prioritize the care of

the sick and needy at least as high as markets for weapons

manufacturers and corporate welfare. As long as we let our politicians

get away with it, they will get away with it.

Jeanmarie

On Aug 21, 2009, at 9:42 AM, lynchwt wrote:

> Well said. I just declared bankruptcy and it was health care costs

> that were the last straw. I have a child with special needs and my

> insurance, with rather good coverage by today's standards, would not

> cover speech therapy at all even though it was written into the

> policy. They claimed it didn't apply to " chronic " conditions, so I

> guess it was just there for people who catch a cold and need speech

> therapy until they recover. Physical and occupational therapies are

> covered to a point, but it is a constant battle to renew since they

> give us a catch 22 logic in justifying the need for more: if

> insufficient progress is being made, then it's not working and can

> be canceled whereas if progress is being made, then it's not needed

> any more. This is the language that the so-called Doctors who work

> for the insurance company come up with to avoid paying--they are

> " rationing " our care (and bloating administrative costs to do it).

> And we are approaching our lifetime limits. We actually had switched

> companies because the previous one said no therapies are covered

> since our local school board should cover it (they don't). Our

> insurance company also would not pay for a specialist visit we made

> on our own dime to California.

>

> When our services are terminated, I don't know what we will do.

> These therapies are the difference between a child who grows up to

> work, pay taxes, and live semi-independently and a severely autistic

> person that needs 24-7 care. How much money will that cost society?

> How will I care for my child and who will look out for him when my

> wife and I are dead? The Children's Special Health Care Services

> program, a government program that is supposed to help, flat out

> refuses to cover kids with Fragile X Syndrome, and our complaint

> under the Americans with Disabilities Act was rejected by the feds.

> It is almost a full-time job advocating and caring for our child,

> and my job has suffered as a result. Let's hope I can keep that.

>

> My wife and I spent a year in Germany. Let me tell you that you can

> not find ANYONE that wants to scrap universal health care there or

> elsewhere that we've been in Europe. It is considered a complete

> right and any politicians, right or left, that don't keep the

> program strong would be committing political suicide. Most of them

> seem to think we here in the USA are mentally ill, because we don't

> have that, and we have people protesting, in effect, " please don't

> give me health care. " Same deal with everyone I have spoken to about

> this in Canada. The scare stories are out and out lies, and

> laughable to boot, since care is severely rationed in this country

> by insurance companies to maximize profits. Not only can't we have a

> single-payer system here, but most insurance companies are for-

> profit corporations.

>

> The reason for this is the decline of our traditional manufacturing

> economy in the 1970s and since. Profits fell and companies looked to

> move into and find more profitable enterprises than actually making

> things. So they went into health care, converting hospitals and

> insurance companies and the like to for-profit enterprises (they

> also did the same thing in education, finance [how that work out for

> us?], and real estate).

>

> The sheer level of extreme social misery in this country caused by

> our health care system is staggering. It really is hard to respond

> to the pile of manure confounding the public debate with " arguments "

> when the people behind the manure have no interest in a rational

> debate, just in derailing the process. (And this is for a very lame

> attempt at a universal system, not a truly robust system, which at a

> minimum would involve kicking the insurance company parasites out,

> found in all other industrialized countries.) At some point, the

> natural instinct is to want to respond to these town hall bozos the

> way you would respond to someone trying to harm your child. You

> don't debate with a predator, you fight them.

>

> Bill

>

>

> >

> > I'm not taking a stand on any proposal that's out there (or on Whole

> > Foods) because I haven't researched each of them enough and it's all

> > still in flux, but remember that we have rationing and limited

> choices

> > now. Sure, there are lots of independent health care plans out there

> > to choose from, but a thousand choices is meaningless if you can't

> > afford any of them, or if you do buy in but get canned as soon as

> you

> > get seriously ill. This is happening more and more, legally. The

> > leading cause of personal bankruptcy for several years has been

> health-

> > care costs (foreclosure is up there, too). Think you're covered

> > because you have catastrophic insurance coverage? Think again.

> They go

> > back to their records to find an excuse to kick you off their rolls

> > once you need the insurance. It's their business plan, it's how they

> > operate. We already have bureaucrats between us and our doctors: the

> > insurance company employees who get bonuses and raises and

> promotions

> > based on how well they deny you care. See Sicko, if you haven't seen

> > it; it's about people *with* health care insurance who end up

> bankrupt.

>

>

>