Re: Kombucha health risk??

[Guest guest]

It's hard to see how the kombucha could be the culprit if acidity is

the agent of harm, given the greater acidity of cranberry juice etc.

But maybe nobody drinks cranberry juice daily.

This seems similar to the official response when someone gets sick

anywhere in the vicinity of raw milk: the authorities assume it's the

raw milk and stop looking, even when it's patently impossible for that

to be the cause (such as not all the people sickened drank the milk,

and most of all of the raw milk drinkers didn't get sick, but they all

ate at the same crap restaurant, etc.). The combination of

prescription drugs seems a more obvious avenue of inquiry.

Of course there is always the possibility of bacterial contamination.

I read Stamets' article awhile back condemning kombucha as

bacterial soup but I then ignored it as I feel pretty confident in my

kombucha-making and it has seemed to help me with candida issues

rather than make me sick. I don't drink it daily, but definitely

several times a week.

Jeanmarie

On Oct 1, 2009, at 2:41 AM, slbooks4me wrote:

> http://www.cancerdecisions.com/content/view/227/2/lang,english/

>

> I found this article/site by watching a lecture by Jerry Brunetti.

> He recommends Dr. Moss for more info on cancer.

>

> I am wondering what some of the thinkers on here think.

>

> TIA

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I've heard of brief references that too much lactid acid can be poisonous but I

have no evidence or case studies of it.  I doubt acidity is the main problem

because many people have a sub par ph and they don't die from it like in these

cases.

In this case the purpose of beverages containing lactic acid is to rebuild

probiotics and enzymes into the body, but only so much is even necessary.  Too

much however may be very harmful.  That's the only idea of have, and if anybody

could further clarify this that would be dandy, but I could be completely wrong.

> http://www.cancerde cisions.com/ content/view/ 227/2/lang, english/

>

> I found this article/site by watching a lecture by Jerry Brunetti.

> He recommends Dr. Moss for more info on cancer.

>

> I am wondering what some of the thinkers on here think.

>

> TIA

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Has anyone here personally felt they got sick or were harmed in any

way by drinking kombucha regularly? Just a straw poll...

Jeanmarie

On Oct 1, 2009, at 11:12 AM, Holt wrote:

> I've heard of brief references that too much lactid acid can be

> poisonous but I have no evidence or case studies of it. I doubt

> acidity is the main problem because many people have a sub par ph

> and they don't die from it like in these cases.

>

> In this case the purpose of beverages containing lactic acid is to

> rebuild probiotics and enzymes into the body, but only so much is

> even necessary. Too much however may be very harmful. That's the

> only idea of have, and if anybody could further clarify this that

> would be dandy, but I could be completely wrong.

>

>

>

> From: Jeanmarie Todd <jaytee3@...>

> Subject: Re: Kombucha health risk??

>

> Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009, 10:52 AM

>

>

>

> It's hard to see how the kombucha could be the culprit if acidity is

>

> the agent of harm, given the greater acidity of cranberry juice etc.

>

> But maybe nobody drinks cranberry juice daily.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I never drank it regularly because I had a bad reaction to it. My reaction

was exactly the same as I get to vinegar, wine, and kefir, so I'm inclined to

think it has something to do with yeast, acetic acid, or amines. What would

happen is that I'd feel dizzy, irritable, and disoriented for 2 or 3 days after

drinking it.

> >

> > From: Jeanmarie Todd <jaytee3@...>

> > Subject: Re: Kombucha health risk??

> >

> > Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009, 10:52 AM

> >

> >

> >

> > It's hard to see how the kombucha could be the culprit if acidity is

> >

> > the agent of harm, given the greater acidity of cranberry juice etc.

> >

> > But maybe nobody drinks cranberry juice daily.

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Nope and when I have read the articles that people died and they attributed it

to Kombucha I often wonder how they proved that.  Actually there are very few

cases.  I also wonder if the brew had any mold, etc. that got passed on that

could have created a serious issue.

Allyn

________________________________

From: Jeanmarie Todd <jaytee3@...>

Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 2:54:48 PM

Subject: Re: Kombucha health risk??

 

Has anyone here personally felt they got sick or were harmed in any

way by drinking kombucha regularly? Just a straw poll...

Jeanmarie

On Oct 1, 2009, at 11:12 AM, Holt wrote:

> I've heard of brief references that too much lactid acid can be

> poisonous but I have no evidence or case studies of it. I doubt

> acidity is the main problem because many people have a sub par ph

> and they don't die from it like in these cases.

>

> In this case the purpose of beverages containing lactic acid is to

> rebuild probiotics and enzymes into the body, but only so much is

> even necessary. Too much however may be very harmful. That's the

> only idea of have, and if anybody could further clarify this that

> would be dandy, but I could be completely wrong.

>

>

>

> From: Jeanmarie Todd <jaytee3mac (DOT) com>

> Subject: Re: Kombucha health risk??

>

> Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009, 10:52 AM

>

>

>

> It's hard to see how the kombucha could be the culprit if acidity is

>

> the agent of harm, given the greater acidity of cranberry juice etc.

>

> But maybe nobody drinks cranberry juice daily.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

There is an internet medical article,(google this) that mentioned that an

elderly couple that took kombucha tea daily, were contaminated with lead

poisoning, apparently the container they used to put the tea in was similar to a

clay pot with glaze over it, and the kombachua is acid so it absorbed the lead

from the glaze and was slowly poisoning them, they got tested and found it just

in time, so are still alive.

So, we have to be careful about the containers that we put acidic teas into and

how long they sit in it before it is consumed, as it could absorb the metals

from the containers and cause heavy metal poisoning. Also, these acidic teas

like Kombucha and Cranberry etc, should not be stored in metal or stainless

steel containers, as the metals could be absorbed from here also. eg: Stainless

steel water bottles. So only to use very safe mugs and teapots, such as safe

glass containers.

Does anyone have info on how to tell which glass containers, such as mugs,

plates & pots are safe? Enamel pots and kettles have a glaze on top of them

also, so I am not sure how safe these are. Does anyone have info about how safe

enamel kettles & pots are for daily use?

Good Health and Love to all.

> >

> > From: Jeanmarie Todd <jaytee3mac (DOT) com>

> > Subject: Re: Kombucha health risk??

> >

> > Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009, 10:52 AM

> >

> >

> >

> > It's hard to see how the kombucha could be the culprit if acidity is

> >

> > the agent of harm, given the greater acidity of cranberry juice etc.

> >

> > But maybe nobody drinks cranberry juice daily.

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

I drink a lot of kefir. Doesn't that have lactic acid in it? Maybe I

shouldn't drink so much of it. So good though!

On Oct 1, 2009, at 11:12 AM, Holt wrote:

> I've heard of brief references that too much lactid acid can be

> poisonous but I have no evidence or case studies of it.  I doubt

> acidity is the main problem because many people have a sub par ph and

> they don't die from it like in these cases.

>

> In this case the purpose of beverages containing lactic acid is to

> rebuild probiotics and enzymes into the body, but only so much is even

> necessary.  Too much however may be very harmful.  That's the only

> idea of have, and if anybody could further clarify this that would be

> dandy, but I could be completely wrong.

Parashis

artpages@...

artpagesonline.com

[Guest guest]

I didn't notice any health effects from driking it, it just really darkened my

teeth. When I bought my mushroom from the source listed in the back of

nourishing traditions, I bought ph indicators that they suggested along with the

mushroom which lets you know when it's done. It doesn't have to be completely

free of sweetness for it to be done. I would ferment mine for ten days and it

would be fizzy and a little sweet. If it is completely free of sweetness, it

tastes like vinengar and then defeats the point as a replacement to soft drinks

as Sally suggests it to be. She says in the side column that it's slightly

sweet. In the end I just let my mushroom pass on to a better life.

> >

> > From: Jeanmarie Todd <jaytee3@...>

> > Subject: Re: Kombucha health risk??

> >

> > Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009, 10:52 AM

> >

> >

> >

> > It's hard to see how the kombucha could be the culprit if acidity is

> >

> > the agent of harm, given the greater acidity of cranberry juice etc.

> >

> > But maybe nobody drinks cranberry juice daily.

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

What's weird is that I didn't even notice the lactic acid taste when I had

kefired milk.  Why is that?  Is it high in lactic acid.  Clabbered or fermented

milk might be a better alternative.

> I've heard of brief references that too much lactid acid can be

> poisonous but I have no evidence or case studies of it.  I doubt

> acidity is the main problem because many people have a sub par ph and

> they don't die from it like in these cases.

>

> In this case the purpose of beverages containing lactic acid is to

> rebuild probiotics and enzymes into the body, but only so much is even

> necessary.  Too much however may be very harmful.  That's the only

> idea of have, and if anybody could further clarify this that would be

> dandy, but I could be completely wrong.

Parashis

artpagesearthlink (DOT) net

artpagesonline. com

[Guest guest]

I could also be all those simple carbs.  They can be harmful to your health in

high quanitities.  That along with the low ph and perhaps the lactic acid...

> I've heard of brief references that too much lactid acid can be

> poisonous but I have no evidence or case studies of it.  I doubt

> acidity is the main problem because many people have a sub par ph and

> they don't die from it like in these cases.

>

> In this case the purpose of beverages containing lactic acid is to

> rebuild probiotics and enzymes into the body, but only so much is even

> necessary.  Too much however may be very harmful.  That's the only

> idea of have, and if anybody could further clarify this that would be

> dandy, but I could be completely wrong.

Parashis

artpagesearthlink (DOT) net

artpagesonline. com

[Guest guest]

Lactic acid has a lot of mis-information surrounding it. It is actually

produced by your body as a source of energy, as part of anaerobic

respiration...so if your cells runs out of oxygen when exercising they will

break glucose down into lactic acid and you body can use that to produce a small

amount of energy.

If it was poisonous we would be poisoning ourselves every time we do heavy

exercise. Our body is very efficient at utilizing lactic acid and even the

high amounts produced during heavy exercise are completely gone 30-60 minutes

later. It really seems to have more health benefits than concerns, especially

in the digestive tract.

-

>

> > I've heard of brief references that too much lactid acid can be

> > poisonous but I have no evidence or case studies of it.  I doubt

> > acidity is the main problem because many people have a sub par ph and

> > they don't die from it like in these cases.

> >

> > In this case the purpose of beverages containing lactic acid is to

> > rebuild probiotics and enzymes into the body, but only so much is even

> > necessary.  Too much however may be very harmful.  That's the only

> > idea of have, and if anybody could further clarify this that would be

> > dandy, but I could be completely wrong.

> Parashis

> artpages@...

>

> artpagesonline.com

>

[Guest guest]

When i first began drinking it i did get the loopy dizyyy sort of feeling also.

Mine would only last an hour or so. I would only drink it every few days. But

after we grew to like it so much i have been known to drink a half gallon in one

day - hot working outside, it quenched me when water did not.

So this did get my eye as we drink it a lot. I have read and heard of other

things too. One lady in our local WAPF group won't touch it as she claims a

friend ruined her liver. That this was supposedly the only dietary change she

made drinking it daily, a few ounces.

I was hoping the happy herbalist was still on here and my chime in.

>

> Well, I never drank it regularly because I had a bad reaction to it. My

reaction was exactly the same as I get to vinegar, wine, and kefir, so I'm

inclined to think it has something to do with yeast, acetic acid, or amines.

What would happen is that I'd feel dizzy, irritable, and disoriented for 2 or 3

days after drinking it.

[Guest guest]

Possibly the taste is buffered by the milk proteins and fat.

Jeanmarie

On Oct 2, 2009, at 8:26 AM, Holt wrote:

> What's weird is that I didn't even notice the lactic acid taste when

> I had kefired milk. Why is that? Is it high in lactic acid.

> Clabbered or fermented milk might be a better alternative.

>

>

>

> From: Parashis <artpages@...>

> Subject: Re: Kombucha health risk??

>

> Date: Friday, October 2, 2009, 8:11 AM

>

> I drink a lot of kefir. Doesn't that have lactic acid in it? Maybe I

>

> shouldn't drink so much of it. So good though!

>

[Guest guest]

I have researched and tested kombucha for the last 10 years and found it to

be pretty safe and almost idiot proof. During those ten years there have

only been a handful of reported ill-effects. Really not bad considering

50,000 people every year are hospitalized from eating bad food (mostly from

restaurants). Not one suspected adverse case was directly linked to

kombucha. That said I do not recommend kombucha it for infants, children,

nursing mothers or if pregnant.

I have more on that online at http://www.happyherbalist.com/cautions.htm

Much more common is that which I report below. The " Buzz " as if drinking

alcohol. In my research I believe this is caused by the fermentation process

- which is similar in fermenting water kefir, ginger beer and lesser in milk

kefir. This would also include pickles, sauerkraut, kim che, etc.

In all ferments sugars are converted to alcohol and then to beneficial

acids. In that transition acetaldehyde is created and what becomes the " side

effects " which are both ferment and individual specific. (does not effect

each person in the same manner) This, again, depends upon the individuals

constitution, and age, amount consumed and what stage and/or pathways the

ferment is at.

Slightly less than1/2 of the sugar remains mostly as unfermentable sugars

(pentose, hextose and fructose) and much of the caffeine. (caffeine is not

always needed, but does stimulate the bacteria and lack of it may reduce the

quality of the overall ferment). see

www.happyherbalist.com/analysis_of_kombucha.htm

The transformation of sugar and tea to Kombucha Mushroom Tea is a chemical

process in which yeasts convert the sugar to ethyl alcohol. Alcohol then

undergoes partial oxidation that results in the formation of acetaldehyde.

Acetaldehyde is often associated with a green apple aroma. In the third

stage, the acetaldehyde is converted into acetic acid by the bacteria. The

chemical reaction is as follows: CH3CH2OH=2HCH3CHO=CH3COOH.. This process

also occurs naturally in rotting and ripening foods and some breads. Recent

findings suggest that both acetate and alcohol contribute to the changes in

cerebral blood flow seen in the intoxication syndrome and that their

relative influence is age-dependent Further studies indicate Acetaldehyde

is damaging to DNA[16] and may cause abnormal muscle development as it binds

to proteins.[17]

A great deal depends upon the state of health and development of the mother

and baby, or child. Blood glucose levels, the body's hydration level,

vitamin and mineral deficiencies especially vitamin B-12 all effect how the

body responses to acetaldehyde . Acetaldehyde is a reactive chemical that,

at high concentrations, can cause sweating, rapid pulse, skin flushing,

nausea, vomiting, and dehydration. These are typical of a hangover and

many kombucha drinkers do experience a slight buzz if they had had a drink

or two.

Probiotic yeasts and to a greater extent the bacteria are beneficial and

often just the right intervention. For example in infant diarrhea. This may

be especially true where (if) kombucha contains the yeasts Saccharomyces

boulardii . Studies indicate that the benefits are individual specific,

working for some and not for others. There are many citations where kombucha

was a life-saver for babies and children, these were in very rural areas

often with little or no other alternatives. Infant diarrhea is a severe

condition and deserves the best attention possible.

Many a couple have claimed that Kombucha helped them to have a baby )

Kombucha Tea is more a catalyst than a food. Kombucha makes things happen.

Chinese Medicine (TCM) always try to maintain a balance. A homeostasis. Our

bodies are distressed when this balance is lost. TCM is an art to restore

that Harmony.

After child-birth and while nursing, the body is in a weaken state and is

distressed, seeking nourishment. Kefir and yogurts are a good choice as they

fortify, strengthen and rebuild. In pregnancy certain deficiencies exist,

for example vitamin and minerals. Hormonal changes abound. Babies continue

to develop their core systems until the age of 4. Babies are not simply

small people- they are extremely unique and very much undefined.

According to Cornell University Food Study, Kombucha Tea typically contains

33 g/L of various (beneficial) acids and is safe and beneficial for the

general public. Kombucha tea should be fermented to a pH of 2.5 to 3.0.

While a lacto-ferment the ph should be between 3.6 and 3.9. (a pH below 3.6

may result in the demise of many of their beneficial microorganisms

associated with a lacto-ferment.) Lactic acid and the polysaccharide and

minerals are expected to keep lacto ferments safe, while aceto-ferments

rely upon the acetic acid.

While under-fermenting may harbor pathogens or fail to develop the

beneficial nutrients, over-fermenting (higher in acids) may overburden the

stomach's digestive juices, and the body and tissue fluids. Acetic pH aids

the stomach's digestive juices and helps break down food and relieve

stagnation. Acetic Acid from Kombucha and Lactic Acid from kefir are weak

acids. When ingested, they react with minerals such as Calcium, Sodium,

Potassium and Magnesium in the body tissue and blood, to form alkalies. This

reaction is termed Alkaline-forming foods. This is the reason why Kombucha

Tea, which is acetic (pH 3.0) is considered an alkaline-forming food. In my

experience the amount of kombucha tea one drinks is self-limiting. Same as

at the dinner table.

According to the National Institute of Health probiotics might theoretically

cause infections especially in people with underlying health conditions.

They could also cause unhealthy metabolic activities, too much stimulation

of the immune system, or gene transfer (insertion of genetic material into a

cell).

From An Introduction to Probiotics

http://nccam.nih.gov/health/probiotics/index.htm#formore

The American Academy of Pediatrics support their use on an individual only

basis. Probiotics should be used with caution in children with indwelling

CVC access, prolonged hospitalizations, and a recognized or potential

compromise of gut mucosal integrity.

Again, I will say that in my experience kombucha and fermented foods are

safe and extremely beneficial. And too-much of a good thing can be a bad

thing.

Ed Kasper

www.HappyHerbalist.com

eddy@...

..................

> Well, I never drank it regularly because I had a bad reaction to it. My

reaction was exactly the same as I get to vinegar, wine, and kefir, so I'm

inclined to think it has something to do with yeast, acetic acid, or amines.

What would happen is that I'd feel dizzy, irritable, and disoriented for 2

or 3 days after drinking it.

[Guest guest]

My experience is similar to Ed Kasper's. I only have 2-3 years

experience with Kombucha, but you can really be fairly incompetant and

it will turn out amazing. I set up lots of friends and they had very

few problems with it. I was making about 12 gallons at a time at peak

volumes and it always turned out great.

Early on I found out, I was using about a third of the tea recommended

by nourishing traditions, but it did not seem to matter.