Re: Re: NT/WAP low carb site

November 30, 2009

Which forum was it? Do you have more details on " all the tests " that are

mentioned in the pasted post?

To the OP - there's a new book out about the thyroid that is apparently

worthwhile reading:

http://www.amazon.com/Still-Thyroid-Symptoms-Tests-Normal/dp/1600376703/ref=sr_1\

_1?ie=UTF8 & s=books & qid=1259618867 & sr=1-1

-jennifer

On Nov 30, 2009, at 4:31 PM, cbrown2008 wrote:

> > Hi does anyone know of a good site that is low carb but still TF? ...I have

been eating a pretty strict WAP diet for yrs now and can't really lose weight.

>

> It sounds like thyroid especially if you did the meat/veggies thing, with

unlimited meat. I did that and my metabolism was whacked. It came back when I

went on Kwasniewski which limits protein, brings back starch from veg, and adds

sat fat.

>

> There was recently an excellent thread about thyroid.

> This was at a low-carber forum (registration needed.)

> Highly recommend reading that. (I copied one post at the end of this)

>

> I would second the recommendation for Mark's Daily Apple, also Kwasniewski's

Optimal Diet. Both allow for more carbs overall than Atkins induction levels.

Mark's Daily Apple get their carbs from veggies and fruit, where Kwasniewski

advocates getting carbs from starchy veg and limiting fiber either from veg or

grains. He also limits fructose.

>

> >From author " " :

> You've leapt to a very logical (but incorrect) conclusion: that " the thyroid "

is a monolithic object rather than an entire metabolic system, and that

" treating it " means treating the organ (the gland) rather than the hormones that

support the gland.

>

> The diabetes analogy is a good one, because it will hopefully help me to write

about this in a way that will clarify the issue for you in a concrete way.

>

> If it turns out that you have the thyroid equivalent of Type 1 diabetes (that

is, you have a goiter, which means that there's a problem with the gland itself,

or you are converting food into insufficient T4 in the gland) -- then you will

indeed be put on Synthroid, and you will have to take it for life. As with Type

1 diabetes, there is currently no cure for a non-working Thyroid GLAND. And T4

is to a large extent, but not exclusively, made in the gland itself.

>

> However, if you have the Type 2 diabetes thyroid equivalent -- it means you

have a problem with the T1 or T2 or (in 99.9% of the cases) T3 hormones that

support the gland.

>

> But guess what? T1, T2 and T3 -- unlike T4 -- are not made in the gland!

>

> T4 is NOT the physiologically active hormone. Instead it needs to be converted

by an enzyme called 5'-deiodinase (the ' after the five means " prime " ) in order

to become the active hormone T3 (liothyronine). At least 80% of the body's daily

production of T3 is produced not in the thyroid gland, but in the tissues of

your body (liver, kidney, etc.).

>

> T3 IS the physiologically active thyroid hormone and is 4 times more potent,

and 3 times shorter acting than T4. T3 is what goes to all the cells in the body

and tells them how fast to operate, which determines the body temperature.

>

> 5' deiodinase has two jobs. It converts T4 to T3, and it converts RT3 to T2.

>

> 5 deiodinase (note, no " prime " ) is the enzyme that converts T4 to RT3.

>

> The specific route by which this conversion happens:

>

> 5' deiodinase (5 " prime " deiodinase) plucks the iodine atom off the 5'

position of T4 to make T3. It also converts RT3 to T2. T3 is 4 times more potent

than T4 and is the primary agonist (stimulator) at the cell level.

>

> But if the 5' deiodinase gets blocked at the cell receptor level, T4 gets

converted by 5 (no prime) deiodinase into rT3 instead of T3.

>

> It's exactly like becoming insulin resistant. Instead of glucose being taken

up by insulin to the cells for food, the cells have blocked their insulin

receptors and the insulin must then carry the glucose to the liver to be

converted to adipose fat for storage.

>

> The pancreas just thinks it's not producing enough insulin and makes even

more, creating more blocked cell receptors. Would you tell someone in this

condition to take insulin to fix the problem because after all, insulin works

great for lots of diabetic folks? No, of course not. You would tell this person

to begin making the dietary changes needed to slow down insulin production and

increase insulin sensitivity.

>

> If they don't listen, what will happen? Even the fat cells will become insulin

resistant and then the pancreas will burn out, turning them from a Type 2 to a

Type 1 diabetic. Then they'll be able to use insulin all right!

>

> Well, having blocked T3 cell receptors because your T4 is converting not into

T3 but into rT3 (not glucose into food, but into adipose fat storage) and

pouring MORE T4 into your system will do the same thing: burn out your entire

thyroid system. Then sure, you'll be on T4 forever, and T3 too.

>

> " Under stress (and this can take many forms, including calorie and/or

carbohydrate restriction over an extended period of time) the body converts T4

less to T3 and more to RT3 to conserve energy. With less T3, the cells of the

body slow down. This makes it clear that there is a peripheral auto-regulatory

mechanism as well as the glandular one that regulates T4 production. And there

is a glandular auto-regulatory mechanism (negative feedback inhibition), that

regulates the thyroid gland's T4 production. The amount of T4 that is converted

peripherally to the active T3 can drop by 50%. And at the same time, the amount

of T4 converted to the inactive RT3 can increase by 50%. "

>

> This understanding of the glandular problem (goiter, not enough T4 production

in the gland) vs. the peripheral T4 to rT3 problem also answers SeeJay's

question about why people stay on Synthroid forever, whereas that is not the

case (or should not be the case) for Cytomel.

>

> In the case of a Type 1 diabetes thyroid equivalent, the nature of the

glandular problem is likely chronic and incurable (now, anyway), so synthetic T4

must, like insulin, be taken daily and forever.

>

> In the case of a Type 2 diabetes thyroid equivalent, the problem lies in the

peripheral tissue and organs, and a short course of the right amount of T3,

given in the correct protocol, can drain the rT3 reservoir, unblock the T3 cell

receptors and 'fix' the problem -- just as a change from a sugar and

fructose-laden high carb diet to a sugar and fructose-free low carb, high fat

diet can restore insulin sensitivity to cells. Unless one reverts back to old

behavior and/or eating patterns, the fix should be permanent.

>

> This also explains, btw, one noted 'marker' for an rT3 problem and what

happens when you fix it: Total Cholesterol level changes.

>

> People who eat a high fat, low carb diet should have very normal TC after one

year. But because the 5' deiodinase -- in the liver, remember -- is one of the

signals given to the liver that cholesterol levels are fine, and that signal is

replaced by the inactive 5 (no prime) deiodinase molecule, the liver keeps

churning out what it believes is missing but needed. Cholesterol. That's why

mine has increased dramatically in the last two years (as my rT3 problem

increased) despite extremely low risk markers for heart disease otherwise. Mine

went from 200 to 381 in just 24 months. You didn't answer my question about

whether yours was over 200, but I'm guessing it is.

>

> Cytomel therapy has another 'side-effect' and you can probably guess now what

it it: dramatic lowering of TC. And now you know why, and exactly how that

works, and why every Medical Journal article on the subject specifically states

that high TC caused by peripheral thyroid hormone problems be treated by thyroid

medication (which you also now know must be T3, and not T4), and not statins.

It's the only time I've ever seen statins not suggested by the statinators for

curing anything. With my T3 therapy, I expect my TC to, in the words of the

Medical Journals -- drop like a rock.

>

> So to answer your original question that made me laugh: " Does T4 work for 33%

who take it? 75% 98%? " -- T4 therapy given to patients with a thyroid glandular

problem (that is, the Type 1's of the thyroid world) should be 100% effective,

100% of the time.

>

> Otoh, giving T4 therapy to patients who have peripheral thyroid hormone

problems (the Type 2's of the thyroid world) is the same as giving them cotton

candy, in ever increasing doses. It might make them feel better (high on the

excess glucose) for a short while, and then it will, if not stopped, cause

severe damage throughout the body.

>

> At this moment you have no idea if you are Type 1 or Type 2 and speculating

about what drug or drugs you will need is futile. You need to get the tests done

-- all the tests -- that will tell you which type of thyroid problem you have,

and that will tell you what specific drug you need, and in what dose and

protocol, to take to help it.

>

> !DSPAM:2,4b143ff2101551263929317!

November 30, 2009

Here's an article on metabolic syndrome:

http://www.medicinenet.com/metabolic_syndrome/article.htm

So a very reasonable approach would be to eat all natural whole foods. Raw milk

and unheated honey have anti insulin factors so that might be something you may

want to consider. Raw milk will also boost your immune system. Consume half

you calories in fat and the other half in carbohydrates. I've seen conflicting

argurments on metabolic syndrome and the remedy to it. Avoid refined

carbohydrates like the plague.

I like Matt Stone's approach. Maybe choosing to eat some more carbs along with

more fat is the answer. It seems people develop health problems when they avoid

certain foods.

My guess is either a high fat doesn't work for people because it is a flawed

approach or because they aren't doing it right. Can't say.

Dan Holt

________________________________

From: <ginavoce25@...>

Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 9:56:41 AM

Subject: Re: NT/WAP low carb site

,

It certainly sounds like you have a thyroid problem, in which case the LAST

thing you want to do is go low-carb because it will further slow down your

thyroid. Even Ray Peat says to eat lots of protein AND fruit for the thyroid. He

says the best fruits are oranges, melons, grapes, pineapple, kiwi, etc...the

ones with good sugars to help make the cholesterol your body needs to make

hormones (like thyroid hormones).

Taubes' book, while quite thorough and important, is not a diet book nor

does it really have many definitive answers for you. Have you heard of the " High

Everything Diet " ? Matt Stone talks a lot about it on his blog, which is very

WAPF-friendly( 180degreehealth. blogspot. com) and it seems like it could help

you. A similar approach would be Dr. Schwarzbein' s " Scwarzbein Principle

II: The Transition. " Essentially, you can't stimulate the metabolism by omitting

any macronutrients (like carbs), you've got to eat, and eat a lot of everything

(except refined carbs and other processed foods.)

Good luck!

--- In , Holt <danthemanholt@ ...>

wrote:

>

> So you may have metabolic syndrome and lymphocytic thyroiditis.

>

> Doing a high fat low carb diet may be a good choice for metabolic syndrome.

>

> For Hashimoto's disease you may want to consider having kombucha, raw milk,

and coconut oil throughout the day. Raw milk may also be good for metabolic

syndrome and goes good with a lower fat diet. You could try replacing your carb

intake with only unheated raw honey, raw milk, a little bit of fruit, and some

vegetables like celery, carrots, and broccoli.

>

> You may want to also consider consuming organ and gland meats. Try seeing if

you can find hypothalamus, thyroid, or any of the other types of glands from

animals that help to balance out hormones. Maybe have a half oz of each of the

different organs in a shake everyday and mask the taste with something. If the

problem goes away reduce the organ consumption down to once a week if you still

want to continue it.

>

> Dan Holt

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> From: slbooks4me <beauty4ashesisaiah 61@...>

>

> Sent: Sun, November 29, 2009 10:28:24 PM

> Subject: NT/WAP low carb site

>

> Hi does anyone know of a good site that is low carb but still TF? I am reading

Taubes Good/Bad Calories and need to see a low carb diet in play to reverse

metabolic syndrome, or can you? I have been eating a pretty strict WAP diet for

yrs now and can't really lose weight. I don't usually eat enough to be able to

maintain weight but i still maintain or gain. I def. think it is the carb issue

for me.

>

> I have thought i was eating a pretty low carb diet myself as we were hardly

ever eating grains. When i did eat them i made to sure to eat a small portion.

Mostly i have eaten meat and veggies. But am wondering if too many veggies, or

the wrong = high carb ones are what i have been choosing. I need info that may

help me get rid of extra weight. At this time in my life i can't spend a couple

hrs a day at the gym, and that is what it has taken me in the past. Killing

myself there doing cardio and weight training to lose anything (was not

WAP,then, following low fat, low cal dietary advice w/ protein, lots of salad).

We had 2 children after losing what i needed, and it is really stuck now.

>

> My diet wether i avoid all grains for weeks or not seems to make no difference

and i really can't see eating meat and fat only.... i can't stand either w/o

veggies. We were on GAPS for 8 months and i lost 10lbs during that time, need

to lose 50. Our diet consisted of lots of bone broth soups, plain 24 hr yogurt,

meat, veggies - mostly low starch ones because high starch was not allowed (no

raw milk either and minimal fruit), eggs, bacon, some fruits no more than 1 a

day like a sour apple, nut breads.... SCD like. I would think that after 8

months more than 10lbs would have come off if a low carb diet was what i

needed.... unless i needed no carb for a while kind of like Atkins.

>

> I am possibly hypothyroid Dr. Peat said jut a little, another which was a

Broda Doc said very hypo. My temps are consistently low with a small

amount of antibodies indicating it could be hashis and my Frees and TSH show non

optimal/low, but barely " normal " in ranges nobody in the conventional med

acknowledges it period. Local Naturopath says they are normal too. Can't

afford to see another. Enough of a difference though that Dr. Peat and the

Broda Doc. said work on it. So this could be part of it. I was hoping to find

answers in the Taubes book. Maybe someone here who has read it can help put the

pieces together as his book is kind of hard to read, dry, to many studies

mentioned to keep everything straight. I thought maybe a site with info

bringing it together may help. to see A BLD menu etc.

>

> TIA

>

November 30, 2009

Start having some sundried celtic seasalt too as that contains iodine you may

need.

Dan Holt

________________________________

From: cbrown2008 <cbrown2008@...>

Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 3:13:39 PM

Subject: Re: NT/WAP low carb site

> Which forum was it?

> Do you have more details on " all the tests " ?

The forum is " Active Low Carber Forums " .

Post is:

Main > Low Carb Health and... > Thyroid Disease > TSH of 9!

http://forum. lowcarber. org/showthread. php?t=403439

The tests are levels of T1, T2, T3, T4, ferritin, and cortisol.

There may be more too, I was skimming a lot. The whole thread is worth a read.

Connie

December 1, 2009

Do they tell you there is iodine in it? Usually sea salt is so low it doesn't

count for anything. If you need iodine then get kelp or even lugol's.

Allyn

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 30, 2009, at 6:41 PM, Holt <danthemanholt@...> wrote:

Start having some sundried celtic seasalt too as that contains iodine you may

need.

Dan Holt

________________________________

From: cbrown2008 <cbrown2008@...>

Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 3:13:39 PM

Subject: Re: NT/WAP low carb site

> Which forum was it?

> Do you have more details on " all the tests " ?

The forum is " Active Low Carber Forums " .

Post is:

Main > Low Carb Health and... > Thyroid Disease > TSH of 9!

http://forum. lowcarber. org/showthread. php?t=403439

The tests are levels of T1, T2, T3, T4, ferritin, and cortisol.

There may be more too, I was skimming a lot. The whole thread is worth a read.

Connie

December 1, 2009

Correct.Â Per their website, there is a negligible amount of iodine in Celtic

sea salt. Lugol's is the way to go to supplement iodine.

Pamela

Start having some sundried celtic seasalt too as that contains iodine you may

need.

Dan Holt

____________ _________ _________ __

From: cbrown2008 <cbrown2008 (DOT) com>

Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 3:13:39 PM

Subject: Re: NT/WAP low carb site

> Which forum was it?

> Do you have more details on " all the tests " ?

The forum is " Active Low Carber Forums " .

Post is:

Main > Low Carb Health and... > Thyroid Disease > TSH of 9!

http://forum. lowcarber. org/showthread. php?t=403439

The tests are levels of T1, T2, T3, T4, ferritin, and cortisol.

There may be more too, I was skimming a lot. The whole thread is worth a read.

Connie

December 1, 2009

Does anyone know an endocrinologist that will do this?

I am given both types of thyroid hormone, all synthetic now, thanks to the

FDA. I felt so much better on the natural Armour. I have goiter, plus

autoimmune (hashimotos htyroiditis) and apparently do not convert t4 to t3

well either so I am on Cytomel now.

My doctor pretty much won't listen to all this information though I would

try and share it with him. If I go off the " Type 1 " medication though my

thyroid starts to hurt really bad as for some reason this seems to flare up

the autoimmune issues.

Interesting RE the diet. Low carb never works for me and I feel totally

whacked out so I gave it up a long time ago. I was considering a long fast

on milk or something when we can afford it but I am worried about it too

with the autoimmune disorder and what not.

I know I have gluten intolerance and I've read this is becoming commonly

seen with people that have hashimoto's or graves ? I am now gluten free and

feeling so much better (less joint aches). The IBS is still horrendous some

days and I am considering cutting dairy now. =/ But I'm under terrible

stress right now with hubby unemployed and that always makes the IBS worse.

Anyway, thanks for the information. Maybe I'll get enough to put the pieces

of the puzzle together and find good health.

Dawn

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of cbrown2008

Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 3:32 PM

Subject: Re: NT/WAP low carb site

> Hi does anyone know of a good site that is low carb but still TF? ...I

have been eating a pretty strict WAP diet for yrs now and can't really lose

weight.

It sounds like thyroid especially if you did the meat/veggies thing, with

unlimited meat. I did that and my metabolism was whacked. It came back when

I went on Kwasniewski which limits protein, brings back starch from veg, and

adds sat fat.

There was recently an excellent thread about thyroid.

This was at a low-carber forum (registration needed.)

Highly recommend reading that. (I copied one post at the end of this)

I would second the recommendation for Mark's Daily Apple, also Kwasniewski's

Optimal Diet. Both allow for more carbs overall than Atkins induction

levels. Mark's Daily Apple get their carbs from veggies and fruit, where

Kwasniewski advocates getting carbs from starchy veg and limiting fiber

either from veg or grains. He also limits fructose.

From author " " :

You've leapt to a very logical (but incorrect) conclusion: that " the

thyroid " is a monolithic object rather than an entire metabolic system, and

that " treating it " means treating the organ (the gland) rather than the

hormones that support the gland.

The diabetes analogy is a good one, because it will hopefully help me to

write about this in a way that will clarify the issue for you in a concrete

way.

If it turns out that you have the thyroid equivalent of Type 1 diabetes

(that is, you have a goiter, which means that there's a problem with the

gland itself, or you are converting food into insufficient T4 in the gland)

-- then you will indeed be put on Synthroid, and you will have to take it

for life. As with Type 1 diabetes, there is currently no cure for a

non-working Thyroid GLAND. And T4 is to a large extent, but not exclusively,

made in the gland itself.

However, if you have the Type 2 diabetes thyroid equivalent -- it means you

have a problem with the T1 or T2 or (in 99.9% of the cases) T3 hormones that

support the gland.

But guess what? T1, T2 and T3 -- unlike T4 -- are not made in the gland!

T4 is NOT the physiologically active hormone. Instead it needs to be

converted by an enzyme called 5'-deiodinase (the ' after the five means

" prime " ) in order to become the active hormone T3 (liothyronine). At least

80% of the body's daily production of T3 is produced not in the thyroid

gland, but in the tissues of your body (liver, kidney, etc.).

T3 IS the physiologically active thyroid hormone and is 4 times more potent,

and 3 times shorter acting than T4. T3 is what goes to all the cells in the

body and tells them how fast to operate, which determines the body

temperature.

5' deiodinase has two jobs. It converts T4 to T3, and it converts RT3 to T2.

5 deiodinase (note, no " prime " ) is the enzyme that converts T4 to RT3.

The specific route by which this conversion happens:

5' deiodinase (5 " prime " deiodinase) plucks the iodine atom off the 5'

position of T4 to make T3. It also converts RT3 to T2. T3 is 4 times more

potent than T4 and is the primary agonist (stimulator) at the cell level.

But if the 5' deiodinase gets blocked at the cell receptor level, T4 gets

converted by 5 (no prime) deiodinase into rT3 instead of T3.

It's exactly like becoming insulin resistant. Instead of glucose being taken

up by insulin to the cells for food, the cells have blocked their insulin

receptors and the insulin must then carry the glucose to the liver to be

converted to adipose fat for storage.

The pancreas just thinks it's not producing enough insulin and makes even

more, creating more blocked cell receptors. Would you tell someone in this

condition to take insulin to fix the problem because after all, insulin

works great for lots of diabetic folks? No, of course not. You would tell

this person to begin making the dietary changes needed to slow down insulin

production and increase insulin sensitivity.

If they don't listen, what will happen? Even the fat cells will become

insulin resistant and then the pancreas will burn out, turning them from a

Type 2 to a Type 1 diabetic. Then they'll be able to use insulin all right!

Well, having blocked T3 cell receptors because your T4 is converting not

into T3 but into rT3 (not glucose into food, but into adipose fat storage)

and pouring MORE T4 into your system will do the same thing: burn out your

entire thyroid system. Then sure, you'll be on T4 forever, and T3 too.

" Under stress (and this can take many forms, including calorie and/or

carbohydrate restriction over an extended period of time) the body converts

T4 less to T3 and more to RT3 to conserve energy. With less T3, the cells of

the body slow down. This makes it clear that there is a peripheral

auto-regulatory mechanism as well as the glandular one that regulates T4

production. And there is a glandular auto-regulatory mechanism (negative

feedback inhibition), that regulates the thyroid gland's T4 production. The

amount of T4 that is converted peripherally to the active T3 can drop by

50%. And at the same time, the amount of T4 converted to the inactive RT3

can increase by 50%. "

This understanding of the glandular problem (goiter, not enough T4

production in the gland) vs. the peripheral T4 to rT3 problem also answers

SeeJay's question about why people stay on Synthroid forever, whereas that

is not the case (or should not be the case) for Cytomel.

In the case of a Type 1 diabetes thyroid equivalent, the nature of the

glandular problem is likely chronic and incurable (now, anyway), so

synthetic T4 must, like insulin, be taken daily and forever.

In the case of a Type 2 diabetes thyroid equivalent, the problem lies in the

peripheral tissue and organs, and a short course of the right amount of T3,

given in the correct protocol, can drain the rT3 reservoir, unblock the T3

cell receptors and 'fix' the problem -- just as a change from a sugar and

fructose-laden high carb diet to a sugar and fructose-free low carb, high

fat diet can restore insulin sensitivity to cells. Unless one reverts back

to old behavior and/or eating patterns, the fix should be permanent.

This also explains, btw, one noted 'marker' for an rT3 problem and what

happens when you fix it: Total Cholesterol level changes.

People who eat a high fat, low carb diet should have very normal TC after

one year. But because the 5' deiodinase -- in the liver, remember -- is one

of the signals given to the liver that cholesterol levels are fine, and that

signal is replaced by the inactive 5 (no prime) deiodinase molecule, the

liver keeps churning out what it believes is missing but needed.

Cholesterol. That's why mine has increased dramatically in the last two

years (as my rT3 problem increased) despite extremely low risk markers for

heart disease otherwise. Mine went from 200 to 381 in just 24 months. You

didn't answer my question about whether yours was over 200, but I'm guessing

it is.

Cytomel therapy has another 'side-effect' and you can probably guess now

what it it: dramatic lowering of TC. And now you know why, and exactly how

that works, and why every Medical Journal article on the subject

specifically states that high TC caused by peripheral thyroid hormone

problems be treated by thyroid medication (which you also now know must be

T3, and not T4), and not statins. It's the only time I've ever seen statins

not suggested by the statinators for curing anything. With my T3 therapy, I

expect my TC to, in the words of the Medical Journals -- drop like a rock.

So to answer your original question that made me laugh: " Does T4 work for

33% who take it? 75% 98%? " -- T4 therapy given to patients with a thyroid

glandular problem (that is, the Type 1's of the thyroid world) should be

100% effective, 100% of the time.

Otoh, giving T4 therapy to patients who have peripheral thyroid hormone

problems (the Type 2's of the thyroid world) is the same as giving them

cotton candy, in ever increasing doses. It might make them feel better (high

on the excess glucose) for a short while, and then it will, if not stopped,

cause severe damage throughout the body.

At this moment you have no idea if you are Type 1 or Type 2 and speculating

about what drug or drugs you will need is futile. You need to get the tests

done -- all the tests -- that will tell you which type of thyroid problem

you have, and that will tell you what specific drug you need, and in what

dose and protocol, to take to help it.

December 1, 2009

Would Jan Kwasniewski's diet be rich in prebiotics. It's good to have something

to feed the gut's probiotics. I would think raw food would be the answer. Raw

milk, unheated honey, bananas, and tomatoes. Maybe building up the gut will

help resolve the problem. The gut's ecology is extremely important for immune

system health.

________________________________

From: cbrown2008 <cbrown2008@...>

Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 1:31:42 PM

Subject: Re: NT/WAP low carb site

> Hi does anyone know of a good site that is low carb but still TF? ...I have

been eating a pretty strict WAP diet for yrs now and can't really lose weight.

It sounds like thyroid especially if you did the meat/veggies thing, with

unlimited meat. I did that and my metabolism was whacked. It came back when I

went on Kwasniewski which limits protein, brings back starch from veg, and adds

sat fat.

There was recently an excellent thread about thyroid.

This was at a low-carber forum (registration needed.)

Highly recommend reading that. (I copied one post at the end of this)

I would second the recommendation for Mark's Daily Apple, also Kwasniewski' s

Optimal Diet. Both allow for more carbs overall than Atkins induction levels.

Mark's Daily Apple get their carbs from veggies and fruit, where Kwasniewski

advocates getting carbs from starchy veg and limiting fiber either from veg or

grains. He also limits fructose.

From author " " :

You've leapt to a very logical (but incorrect) conclusion: that " the thyroid " is

a monolithic object rather than an entire metabolic system, and that " treating

it " means treating the organ (the gland) rather than the hormones that support

the gland.

The diabetes analogy is a good one, because it will hopefully help me to write

about this in a way that will clarify the issue for you in a concrete way.

If it turns out that you have the thyroid equivalent of Type 1 diabetes (that

is, you have a goiter, which means that there's a problem with the gland itself,

or you are converting food into insufficient T4 in the gland) -- then you will

indeed be put on Synthroid, and you will have to take it for life. As with Type

1 diabetes, there is currently no cure for a non-working Thyroid GLAND. And T4

is to a large extent, but not exclusively, made in the gland itself.

However, if you have the Type 2 diabetes thyroid equivalent -- it means you have

a problem with the T1 or T2 or (in 99.9% of the cases) T3 hormones that support

the gland.

But guess what? T1, T2 and T3 -- unlike T4 -- are not made in the gland!

T4 is NOT the physiologically active hormone. Instead it needs to be converted

by an enzyme called 5'-deiodinase (the ' after the five means " prime " ) in order

to become the active hormone T3 (liothyronine) . At least 80% of the body's

daily production of T3 is produced not in the thyroid gland, but in the tissues

of your body (liver, kidney, etc.).

T3 IS the physiologically active thyroid hormone and is 4 times more potent, and

3 times shorter acting than T4. T3 is what goes to all the cells in the body and

tells them how fast to operate, which determines the body temperature.

5' deiodinase has two jobs. It converts T4 to T3, and it converts RT3 to T2.

5 deiodinase (note, no " prime " ) is the enzyme that converts T4 to RT3.

The specific route by which this conversion happens:

5' deiodinase (5 " prime " deiodinase) plucks the iodine atom off the 5' position

of T4 to make T3. It also converts RT3 to T2. T3 is 4 times more potent than T4

and is the primary agonist (stimulator) at the cell level.

But if the 5' deiodinase gets blocked at the cell receptor level, T4 gets

converted by 5 (no prime) deiodinase into rT3 instead of T3.

It's exactly like becoming insulin resistant. Instead of glucose being taken up

by insulin to the cells for food, the cells have blocked their insulin receptors

and the insulin must then carry the glucose to the liver to be converted to

adipose fat for storage.

The pancreas just thinks it's not producing enough insulin and makes even more,

creating more blocked cell receptors. Would you tell someone in this condition

to take insulin to fix the problem because after all, insulin works great for

lots of diabetic folks? No, of course not. You would tell this person to begin

making the dietary changes needed to slow down insulin production and increase

insulin sensitivity.

If they don't listen, what will happen? Even the fat cells will become insulin

resistant and then the pancreas will burn out, turning them from a Type 2 to a

Type 1 diabetic. Then they'll be able to use insulin all right!

Well, having blocked T3 cell receptors because your T4 is converting not into T3

but into rT3 (not glucose into food, but into adipose fat storage) and pouring

MORE T4 into your system will do the same thing: burn out your entire thyroid

system. Then sure, you'll be on T4 forever, and T3 too.