Re: Thoughts on panic attacks?

[Guest guest]

I think it can be summarized like this:

1) Adequate nutrition

2) Avoid sensitivities

3) Practice vigorous cognitive self-control

I used to have panic attacks, but good nutrition cured them. I believe part

of this may have been contributing to adequate detoxification of histamine

in the brain via methylation pathways. In one study, histamine-free diets

(diets very low in or free of preformed histamines and also other compounds

like salicylates that lead to histamine production in some people) were

tried for skin conditions but all of the people suffering from panic attacks

ceased having them on the diets. Histamine produces alertness in the brain

but unregulated levels might induce panic.

If you study the Christian Church Fathers, you will find a psychological

approach in which sinful thoughts are vigorously controlled. In this

appraoch, the only legitimate use for human " anger " is to summon this

strength to destroy thoughts that would lead us into temptation. In this

framework, anxiety is a sin, because it is produced by lack of faith and

also in a way through pride, because we become anxious when we feel not in

control, which presupposes that we, rather than God, should be in control.

Thus the Christian practices constant watchfulness and rejects negative

thoughts. There is a certain sense of warfare to this concept, but the end

result is that the person is joyous and happy whatever happens, because the

person has rejected anything that would make them unhappy.

Modern cognitive pyschologists would probably drop the spiritual aspects but

would still advocate the practice of cognitive control. Learn what produces

anxiety-producing thoughts, and reject them. Learn what produces calming,

peaceful, and joyous thoughts, and encourage them.

If the cognitive pyschologist believes that a person's destiny is to be

happy and fulfilled and " self-actualized " then cognitive control can be used

for that purpose, and if the Christian ascetic believe that a person's life

is to acquire the gifts of the Holy Spirit and to become a partaker of

divine nature, then cognitive control can be used for that purpose. Either

way, it's an essential component of directing your life, including your

feelings, in the way you want it.

Chris

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Amy Sikes-Dorman <

amysikesdorman@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Any thoughts on the cause or treatment of panic attacks, beyond

> conventional sedatives? I'd love any and all feedback!

>

>

> __________________________________________________________

> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.

> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree and also, the nutritional and behavioral sides both affect and reinforce

each other. I have a few panic attack prone friends and they all control them

just as said. The good nutrition, good sleep, avoid the triggering people

and situations.

Although I think the nutritional improvement can be more immediately gratifying

when first coming from illness or SAD. Just because cognition itself is not so

good with suboptimal nutrition.

Getting the sat fats back in and cutting down on junk food.

C

>

> >

> >

> >

> > Any thoughts on the cause or treatment of panic attacks, beyond

> > conventional sedatives? I'd love any and all feedback!

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________________

> > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.

> > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Flower essences can help immensely with panic attacks, beyond Bach's

Rescue Remedy.

Here is a link to an article by Greek psychiatrist Marina Angeli.

http://www.pegasusproducts.com/articles/panic.html

Deborah

On Dec 17, 2009, at 1:23 PM, Amy Sikes-Dorman wrote:

>

> Any thoughts on the cause or treatment of panic attacks, beyond

> conventional sedatives? I'd love any and all feedback!

>

>

> __________________________________________________________

> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.

> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

>

>

[Guest guest]

For a more conventional take on panic attacks I would check out information from

the Mayo Clinic. I like what they say. What's funny is that even though their

information is based on conventional medicine in several articles they state

most health problems are caused by conventional medicine.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/panic-attacks/DS00338

________________________________

From: Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...>

Sent: Thu, December 17, 2009 1:44:25 PM

Subject: Re: Thoughts on panic attacks?

I think it can be summarized like this:

1) Adequate nutrition

2) Avoid sensitivities

3) Practice vigorous cognitive self-control

I used to have panic attacks, but good nutrition cured them. I believe part

of this may have been contributing to adequate detoxification of histamine

in the brain via methylation pathways. In one study, histamine-free diets

(diets very low in or free of preformed histamines and also other compounds

like salicylates that lead to histamine production in some people) were

tried for skin conditions but all of the people suffering from panic attacks

ceased having them on the diets. Histamine produces alertness in the brain

but unregulated levels might induce panic.

If you study the Christian Church Fathers, you will find a psychological

approach in which sinful thoughts are vigorously controlled. In this

appraoch, the only legitimate use for human " anger " is to summon this

strength to destroy thoughts that would lead us into temptation. In this

framework, anxiety is a sin, because it is produced by lack of faith and

also in a way through pride, because we become anxious when we feel not in

control, which presupposes that we, rather than God, should be in control.

Thus the Christian practices constant watchfulness and rejects negative

thoughts. There is a certain sense of warfare to this concept, but the end

result is that the person is joyous and happy whatever happens, because the

person has rejected anything that would make them unhappy.

Modern cognitive pyschologists would probably drop the spiritual aspects but

would still advocate the practice of cognitive control. Learn what produces

anxiety-producing thoughts, and reject them. Learn what produces calming,

peaceful, and joyous thoughts, and encourage them.

If the cognitive pyschologist believes that a person's destiny is to be

happy and fulfilled and " self-actualized " then cognitive control can be used

for that purpose, and if the Christian ascetic believe that a person's life

is to acquire the gifts of the Holy Spirit and to become a partaker of

divine nature, then cognitive control can be used for that purpose. Either

way, it's an essential component of directing your life, including your

feelings, in the way you want it.

Chris

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Amy Sikes-Dorman <

amysikesdorman@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Any thoughts on the cause or treatment of panic attacks, beyond

> conventional sedatives? I'd love any and all feedback!

>

>

> __________________________________________________________

> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.

> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

>

>

[Guest guest]

Try going outside, do involved physical activities, go to the park, go out

window shopping, exercise. A lot of the time a lot of these problems can

manifest from being overworked without enough fun. Moving your body around also

helps produce more serotonin and positive thoughts.

Dan Holt

________________________________

From: cbrown2008 <cbrown2008@...>

Sent: Thu, December 17, 2009 1:57:24 PM

Subject: Re: Thoughts on panic attacks?

I agree and also, the nutritional and behavioral sides both affect and reinforce

each other. I have a few panic attack prone friends and they all control them

just as said. The good nutrition, good sleep, avoid the triggering people

and situations.

Although I think the nutritional improvement can be more immediately gratifying

when first coming from illness or SAD. Just because cognition itself is not so

good with suboptimal nutrition.

Getting the sat fats back in and cutting down on junk food.

C

>

> >

> >

> >

> > Any thoughts on the cause or treatment of panic attacks, beyond

> > conventional sedatives? I'd love any and all feedback!

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.

> > http://clk.atdmt. com/GBL/go/ 171222984/ direct/01/

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Here's a couple more articles:

http://www.thehealthcenter.info/adult-panic-attacks/causes-of-panic-attacks.htm

http://www.medicinenet.com/panic_disorder/article.htm

________________________________

From: Holt <danthemanholt@...>

Sent: Thu, December 17, 2009 2:10:38 PM

Subject: Re: Thoughts on panic attacks?

Try going outside, do involved physical activities, go to the park, go out

window shopping, exercise. A lot of the time a lot of these problems can

manifest from being overworked without enough fun. Moving your body around also

helps produce more serotonin and positive thoughts.

Dan Holt

____________ _________ _________ __

From: cbrown2008 <cbrown2008 (DOT) com>

Sent: Thu, December 17, 2009 1:57:24 PM

Subject: Re: Thoughts on panic attacks?

I agree and also, the nutritional and behavioral sides both affect and reinforce

each other. I have a few panic attack prone friends and they all control them

just as said. The good nutrition, good sleep, avoid the triggering people

and situations.

Although I think the nutritional improvement can be more immediately gratifying

when first coming from illness or SAD. Just because cognition itself is not so

good with suboptimal nutrition.

Getting the sat fats back in and cutting down on junk food.

C

>

> >

> >

> >

> > Any thoughts on the cause or treatment of panic attacks, beyond

> > conventional sedatives? I'd love any and all feedback!

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.

> > http://clk.atdmt. com/GBL/go/ 171222984/ direct/01/

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Avoiding triggering people and situations is extremely dangerous. It's the

reason that panic attacks are the most common cause of agoraphobia. I was

talking about controlling one's reactions to triggers.

Chris

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 4:57 PM, cbrown2008 <cbrown2008@...> wrote:

>

>

> I agree and also, the nutritional and behavioral sides both affect and

> reinforce each other. I have a few panic attack prone friends and they all

> control them just as said. The good nutrition, good sleep, avoid the

> triggering people and situations.

>

> Although I think the nutritional improvement can be more immediately

> gratifying when first coming from illness or SAD. Just because cognition

> itself is not so good with suboptimal nutrition.

>

> Getting the sat fats back in and cutting down on junk food.

>

> C

>

>

>

> >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Any thoughts on the cause or treatment of panic attacks, beyond

> > > conventional sedatives? I'd love any and all feedback!

> > >

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________________

> > > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.

> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

The panic attacks happen in the middle of the night- no trigger, no nothing

just... boom. And as I'm sure you all know, once you're in a panic attack, it's

hard to get out again- controlling them during the day is pretty straightforward

for me, but night is pretty rough.

Actually, my nutrition (dare I say) is pretty darn good. Despite the presence

of literally one bite a day of dark chocolate (organic, no soy, etc), I eat a

grain free, mostly dairy free diet which is high in saturated fat (about 70% of

my calories) and contains no junk food at all. All my meat is grassfed, eggs

are pastured, as is my butter. Most everything else is organic, made from

scratch, etc. I eat fermented veggies at least twice a day and drink at least a

mug of bone broth a day. Except for the chocolate, I do not eat sweeteners of

any kind and don't use caffeine. I drink alcohol once every few months--

generally just one drink.

I take CLO coupled with butter oil- a high dose of each since I'm nursing- as

well as a Raw Calcium supplement (from Garden of Life/Vitamin Code) and a whole

foods iron supplement. I drink a quart of nettle tea a day, exercise at least

four days a week, and avoid all triggers I possibly can.

I just can't figure it out. I have a history of depression (not panic attacks),

but was able to pull myself off my medication last year with a gluten free diet

and heavy Vitamin D supplementation. I'm positive that there is now zero gluten

in my diet and that my Vit D levels are optimal. So what gives?

From: cbrown2008@...

Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:57:24 +0000

Subject: Re: Thoughts on panic attacks?

I agree and also, the nutritional and behavioral sides both affect and

reinforce each other. I have a few panic attack prone friends and they all

control them just as said. The good nutrition, good sleep, avoid the

triggering people and situations.

Although I think the nutritional improvement can be more immediately gratifying

when first coming from illness or SAD. Just because cognition itself is not so

good with suboptimal nutrition.

Getting the sat fats back in and cutting down on junk food.

C

>

> >

> >

> >

> > Any thoughts on the cause or treatment of panic attacks, beyond

> > conventional sedatives? I'd love any and all feedback!

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________________

> > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.

> > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hm that is weird. What a great diet you have worked yourself into! How long

have you had this high level of nutrition?

Any fish? Omega 3 sources?

How many grams of dietary carbs do you have per day (net, not counting fiber)?

Any sleep issues other than the attacks in the night?

When did they start- what was happening or what changed in your routine?

Family history of depression, panic, bipolar, addiction?

Just curious. I am no expert. Just an observer who is interested in this area

and so I ask everyone.

Connie

[Guest guest]

I've only been eating this well for a year, really, but had a better than SAD

before that.

I do eat fish- salmon, mostly, and the occasional serving of scallops or shrimp-

and I take cod liver oil, eat several avocados a week, etc. Net carbs are

generally around 50 or so, occasionally as high as 75 if I decide to have a

splurge sort of day and eat more fruit or a baked sweet potato or something--

that happens maybe once a week or every ten days.

I've been waking at night for a few months now, but the panic attacks just

started a month ago. There's been no real change in my routine, and while

things are a bit stressful right now, the stress has remained constant for

several months. I suppose it could just be finally getting to me, but to go

from no panic attacks ever to three or four in a month seems odd, no?

Strong family history of depression, not so much with the other things, though

my father is an alcoholic.

From: cbrown2008@...

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 04:02:32 +0000

Subject: Re: Thoughts on panic attacks?

Hm that is weird. What a great diet you have worked yourself into! How

long have you had this high level of nutrition?

Any fish? Omega 3 sources?

How many grams of dietary carbs do you have per day (net, not counting fiber)?

Any sleep issues other than the attacks in the night?

When did they start- what was happening or what changed in your routine?

Family history of depression, panic, bipolar, addiction?

Just curious. I am no expert. Just an observer who is interested in this area

and so I ask everyone.

Connie

_________________________________________________________________

Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.

http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

[Guest guest]

GABA plays a role in calming panic attacks. could there be something awry in

that pathway?

(GABA as a supplement for panic attacks is also very safe and the results are

almost instantaneous - personal experience)

-jennifer

On Dec 17, 2009, at 10:28 PM, Amy Sikes-Dorman wrote:

>

> The panic attacks happen in the middle of the night- no trigger, no nothing

just... boom. And as I'm sure you all know, once you're in a panic attack, it's

hard to get out again- controlling them during the day is pretty straightforward

for me, but night is pretty rough.

>

> Actually, my nutrition (dare I say) is pretty darn good. Despite the presence

of literally one bite a day of dark chocolate (organic, no soy, etc), I eat a

grain free, mostly dairy free diet which is high in saturated fat (about 70% of

my calories) and contains no junk food at all. All my meat is grassfed, eggs

are pastured, as is my butter. Most everything else is organic, made from

scratch, etc. I eat fermented veggies at least twice a day and drink at least a

mug of bone broth a day. Except for the chocolate, I do not eat sweeteners of

any kind and don't use caffeine. I drink alcohol once every few months--

generally just one drink.

>

> I take CLO coupled with butter oil- a high dose of each since I'm nursing- as

well as a Raw Calcium supplement (from Garden of Life/Vitamin Code) and a whole

foods iron supplement. I drink a quart of nettle tea a day, exercise at least

four days a week, and avoid all triggers I possibly can.

>

> I just can't figure it out. I have a history of depression (not panic

attacks), but was able to pull myself off my medication last year with a gluten

free diet and heavy Vitamin D supplementation. I'm positive that there is now

zero gluten in my diet and that my Vit D levels are optimal. So what gives?

>

>

>

> From: cbrown2008@...

> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:57:24 +0000

> Subject: Re: Thoughts on panic attacks?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I agree and also, the nutritional and behavioral sides both affect and

reinforce each other. I have a few panic attack prone friends and they all

control them just as said. The good nutrition, good sleep, avoid the

triggering people and situations.

>

>

>

> Although I think the nutritional improvement can be more immediately

gratifying when first coming from illness or SAD. Just because cognition itself

is not so good with suboptimal nutrition.

>

>

>

> Getting the sat fats back in and cutting down on junk food.

>

>

>

> C

>

>

>

>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>> Any thoughts on the cause or treatment of panic attacks, beyond

>

>>> conventional sedatives? I'd love any and all feedback!

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>> __________________________________________________________

>

>>> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.

>

>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

>

>>>

>

>>>

[Guest guest]

The nutritional issues can provide a contextual disposition towards

anxiety that can increase the chance that certain thought patterns

will lead to a panic attack, but a panic attack can occur in the

presence of good nutrition if the thought patterns are sufficiently

well rooted and most people with bad nutrition don't get panic

attacks.

Potential culprits in your diet of preformed histamine,

histamine-producing chemcials and/or other neurstimulants such as

glutamate, include chocolate, fermented veggies, and bone broths.

If you have certain genetic polymorphisms you could need very high

amounts of certain vitamins. For example, methylcobalamin might prove

useful.

Chris

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Amy Sikes-Dorman

<amysikesdorman@...> wrote:

>

> The panic attacks happen in the middle of the night- no trigger, no nothing

just... boom.  And as I'm sure you all know, once you're in a panic attack, it's

hard to get out again- controlling them during the day is pretty straightforward

for me, but night is pretty rough.

>

> Actually, my nutrition (dare I say) is pretty darn good.  Despite the presence

of literally one bite a day of dark chocolate (organic, no soy, etc), I eat a

grain free, mostly dairy free diet which is high in saturated fat (about 70% of

my calories) and contains no junk food at all.  All my meat is grassfed, eggs

are pastured, as is my butter.  Most everything else is organic, made from

scratch, etc.  I eat fermented veggies at least twice a day and drink at least a

mug of bone broth a day.  Except for the chocolate, I do not eat sweeteners of

any kind and don't use caffeine.  I drink alcohol once every few months--

generally just one drink.

>

> I take CLO coupled with butter oil- a high dose of each since I'm nursing- as

well as a Raw Calcium supplement (from Garden of Life/Vitamin Code) and a whole

foods iron supplement.  I drink a quart of nettle tea a day, exercise at least

four days a week, and avoid all triggers I possibly can.

>

> I just can't figure it out.  I have a history of depression (not panic

attacks), but was able to pull myself off my medication last year with a gluten

free diet and heavy Vitamin D supplementation.  I'm positive that there is now

zero gluten in my diet and that my Vit D levels are optimal.  So what gives?

>

>

>

> From: cbrown2008@...

> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:57:24 +0000

> Subject: Re: Thoughts on panic attacks?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>      I agree and also, the nutritional and behavioral sides both affect and

reinforce each other. I have a few panic attack prone friends and they all

control them just as said. The good nutrition, good sleep, avoid the

triggering people and situations.

>

>

>

> Although I think the nutritional improvement can be more immediately

gratifying when first coming from illness or SAD.  Just because cognition itself

is not so good with suboptimal nutrition.

>

>

>

> Getting the sat fats back in and cutting down on junk food.

>

>

>

> C

>

>

>

>

>

>>

>

>> >

>

>> >

>

>> >

>

>> > Any thoughts on the cause or treatment of panic attacks, beyond

>

>> > conventional sedatives? I'd love any and all feedback!

>

>> >

>

>> >

>

>> > __________________________________________________________

>

>> > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.

>

>> > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

>

>> >

>

>> >

[Guest guest]

What causes people to have issues with high histamine foods whereas others do

not have the same problems?

I found this:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=470861

________________________________

From: Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...>

Sent: Thu, December 17, 2009 8:32:34 PM

Subject: Re: Thoughts on panic attacks?

The nutritional issues can provide a contextual disposition towards

anxiety that can increase the chance that certain thought patterns

will lead to a panic attack, but a panic attack can occur in the

presence of good nutrition if the thought patterns are sufficiently

well rooted and most people with bad nutrition don't get panic

attacks.

Potential culprits in your diet of preformed histamine,

histamine-producing chemcials and/or other neurstimulants such as

glutamate, include chocolate, fermented veggies, and bone broths.

If you have certain genetic polymorphisms you could need very high

amounts of certain vitamins. For example, methylcobalamin might prove

useful.

Chris

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Amy Sikes-Dorman

<amysikesdorman@...> wrote:

>

> The panic attacks happen in the middle of the night- no trigger, no nothing

just... boom. And as I'm sure you all know, once you're in a panic attack, it's

hard to get out again- controlling them during the day is pretty straightforward

for me, but night is pretty rough.

>

> Actually, my nutrition (dare I say) is pretty darn good. Despite the presence

of literally one bite a day of dark chocolate (organic, no soy, etc), I eat a

grain free, mostly dairy free diet which is high in saturated fat (about 70% of

my calories) and contains no junk food at all. All my meat is grassfed, eggs

are pastured, as is my butter. Most everything else is organic, made from

scratch, etc. I eat fermented veggies at least twice a day and drink at least a

mug of bone broth a day. Except for the chocolate, I do not eat sweeteners of

any kind and don't use caffeine. I drink alcohol once every few months--

generally just one drink.

>

> I take CLO coupled with butter oil- a high dose of each since I'm nursing- as

well as a Raw Calcium supplement (from Garden of Life/Vitamin Code) and a whole

foods iron supplement. I drink a quart of nettle tea a day, exercise at least

four days a week, and avoid all triggers I possibly can.

>

> I just can't figure it out. I have a history of depression (not panic

attacks), but was able to pull myself off my medication last year with a gluten

free diet and heavy Vitamin D supplementation. I'm positive that there is now

zero gluten in my diet and that my Vit D levels are optimal. So what gives?

>

>

>

> From: cbrown2008@...

> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:57:24 +0000

> Subject: Re: Thoughts on panic attacks?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I agree and also, the nutritional and behavioral sides both affect and

reinforce each other. I have a few panic attack prone friends and they all

control them just as said. The good nutrition, good sleep, avoid the

triggering people and situations.

>

>

>

> Although I think the nutritional improvement can be more immediately

gratifying when first coming from illness or SAD. Just because cognition itself

is not so good with suboptimal nutrition.

>

>

>

> Getting the sat fats back in and cutting down on junk food.

>

>

>

> C

>

>

>

>

>

>>

>

>> >

>

>> >

>

>> >

>

>> > Any thoughts on the cause or treatment of panic attacks, beyond

>

>> > conventional sedatives? I'd love any and all feedback!

>

>> >

>

>> >

>

>> > __________________________________________________________

>

>> > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.

>

>> > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

>

>> >

>

>> >

[Guest guest]

Do you think it's a diet problem? Or do you think it's an emotional problem or

both?

Maybe there could be a magnesium deficiency. Try taking magnesium chloride

baths. It helps with sleeping.

Dan Holt

________________________________

From: Amy Sikes-Dorman <amysikesdorman@...>

Native Nutrition < >

Sent: Thu, December 17, 2009 8:10:36 PM

Subject: RE: Thoughts on panic attacks?

I've only been eating this well for a year, really, but had a better than SAD

before that.

I do eat fish- salmon, mostly, and the occasional serving of scallops or shrimp-

and I take cod liver oil, eat several avocados a week, etc. Net carbs are

generally around 50 or so, occasionally as high as 75 if I decide to have a

splurge sort of day and eat more fruit or a baked sweet potato or something--

that happens maybe once a week or every ten days.

I've been waking at night for a few months now, but the panic attacks just

started a month ago. There's been no real change in my routine, and while

things are a bit stressful right now, the stress has remained constant for

several months. I suppose it could just be finally getting to me, but to go

from no panic attacks ever to three or four in a month seems odd, no?

Strong family history of depression, not so much with the other things, though

my father is an alcoholic.

From: cbrown2008@...

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 04:02:32 +0000

Subject: Re: Thoughts on panic attacks?

Hm that is weird. What a great diet you have worked yourself into! How

long have you had this high level of nutrition?

Any fish? Omega 3 sources?

How many grams of dietary carbs do you have per day (net, not counting fiber)?

Any sleep issues other than the attacks in the night?

When did they start- what was happening or what changed in your routine?

Family history of depression, panic, bipolar, addiction?

Just curious. I am no expert. Just an observer who is interested in this area

and so I ask everyone.

Connie

_________________________________________________________________

Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.

http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

[Guest guest]

What percentage of your food is raw and uncooked?

I'm doing a web-search of foods that cause histamine problems and would think

you'd have to avoid a lot of healthy foods.

I can't find anything on the web about what causes people to have problems with

high histamine foods and others not to have problems with the foods.

?

________________________________

From: Amy Sikes-Dorman <amysikesdorman@...>

Native Nutrition < >

Sent: Thu, December 17, 2009 8:10:36 PM

Subject: RE: Thoughts on panic attacks?

I've only been eating this well for a year, really, but had a better than SAD

before that.

I do eat fish- salmon, mostly, and the occasional serving of scallops or shrimp-

and I take cod liver oil, eat several avocados a week, etc. Net carbs are

generally around 50 or so, occasionally as high as 75 if I decide to have a

splurge sort of day and eat more fruit or a baked sweet potato or something--

that happens maybe once a week or every ten days.

I've been waking at night for a few months now, but the panic attacks just

started a month ago. There's been no real change in my routine, and while

things are a bit stressful right now, the stress has remained constant for

several months. I suppose it could just be finally getting to me, but to go

from no panic attacks ever to three or four in a month seems odd, no?

Strong family history of depression, not so much with the other things, though

my father is an alcoholic.

From: cbrown2008@...

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 04:02:32 +0000

Subject: Re: Thoughts on panic attacks?

Hm that is weird. What a great diet you have worked yourself into! How

long have you had this high level of nutrition?

Any fish? Omega 3 sources?

How many grams of dietary carbs do you have per day (net, not counting fiber)?

Any sleep issues other than the attacks in the night?

When did they start- what was happening or what changed in your routine?

Family history of depression, panic, bipolar, addiction?

Just curious. I am no expert. Just an observer who is interested in this area

and so I ask everyone.

Connie

_________________________________________________________________

Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.

http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

[Guest guest]

I would say raw milk because maybe the calcium in the supplements you are taking

aren't absorbing. I don't trust calcium supplements. Raw milk may add to your

histamine problems in other ways. All proteins contain methionine so I don't

see a reason for supplementation.

http://www.healthrecovery.com/HRC_2006/Depression_06/D_roller_coaster.htm

methylcobalamin (b12) can also be had from lamb or beef liver. It is also in

smaller quantities in beef.

Many Americans have a high protein diet. Maybe you're having too much protein

everyday. Reduce it down to .36g of protein per a pound of bodyweight.

Dan Holt

________________________________

From: Amy Sikes-Dorman <amysikesdorman@...>

Native Nutrition < >

Sent: Thu, December 17, 2009 8:10:36 PM

Subject: RE: Thoughts on panic attacks?

I've only been eating this well for a year, really, but had a better than SAD

before that.

I do eat fish- salmon, mostly, and the occasional serving of scallops or shrimp-

and I take cod liver oil, eat several avocados a week, etc. Net carbs are

generally around 50 or so, occasionally as high as 75 if I decide to have a

splurge sort of day and eat more fruit or a baked sweet potato or something--

that happens maybe once a week or every ten days.

I've been waking at night for a few months now, but the panic attacks just

started a month ago. There's been no real change in my routine, and while

things are a bit stressful right now, the stress has remained constant for

several months. I suppose it could just be finally getting to me, but to go

from no panic attacks ever to three or four in a month seems odd, no?

Strong family history of depression, not so much with the other things, though

my father is an alcoholic.

From: cbrown2008@...

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 04:02:32 +0000

Subject: Re: Thoughts on panic attacks?

Hm that is weird. What a great diet you have worked yourself into! How

long have you had this high level of nutrition?

Any fish? Omega 3 sources?

How many grams of dietary carbs do you have per day (net, not counting fiber)?

Any sleep issues other than the attacks in the night?

When did they start- what was happening or what changed in your routine?

Family history of depression, panic, bipolar, addiction?

Just curious. I am no expert. Just an observer who is interested in this area

and so I ask everyone.

Connie

_________________________________________________________________

Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.

http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

[Guest guest]

Hm. Well if the main change in the last year has been diet, and then came sleep

disturbance and then panic, it does sound to me like there could be a gradual

depletion of something you need. Like you used to get it and you don't now.

Or, your need for it has increased but your intake hasn't. Something like that.

I didn't ask if your carbs are low or high fiber. I have heard people calming

down panic and also lifting depression by switching from leafy green carbs to

plain old starchy veg while still staying in the 50-70g per day range (a la

Groves, Lutz, Kwazniewski). Sweet potatoes, other roots. Not so much the fruit

but the vegetable starch, not fiber seems to help. maybe add back in the WAP

style soaked oats and what not.

Besides the other poster's suggestions of GABA and extra vitamins...

how are you on the organ meats for the micronutrients?

C

--- In , Amy Sikes-Dorman <amysikesdorman@...>

wrote:

>

>

> I've only been eating this well for a year, really, but had a better than SAD

before that.

>

> I do eat fish- salmon, mostly, and the occasional serving of scallops or

shrimp- and I take cod liver oil, eat several avocados a week, etc. Net carbs

are generally around 50 or so, occasionally as high as 75 if I decide to have a

splurge sort of day and eat more fruit or a baked sweet potato or something--

that happens maybe once a week or every ten days.

>

> I've been waking at night for a few months now, but the panic attacks just

started a month ago. There's been no real change in my routine, and while

things are a bit stressful right now, the stress has remained constant for

several months. I suppose it could just be finally getting to me, but to go

from no panic attacks ever to three or four in a month seems odd, no?

>

> Strong family history of depression, not so much with the other things, though

my father is an alcoholic.

>

>

>

>

> From: cbrown2008@...

> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 04:02:32 +0000

> Subject: Re: Thoughts on panic attacks?

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> Hm that is weird. What a great diet you have worked yourself into! How

long have you had this high level of nutrition?

>

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>

> Any fish? Omega 3 sources?

>

> How many grams of dietary carbs do you have per day (net, not counting fiber)?

>

> Any sleep issues other than the attacks in the night?

>

> When did they start- what was happening or what changed in your routine?

>

> Family history of depression, panic, bipolar, addiction?

>

>

>

> Just curious. I am no expert. Just an observer who is interested in this area

and so I ask everyone.

>

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> Connie

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> _________________________________________________________________

> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.

> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hmm, I'd be wondering if you're not restoring your glycogen reserves if

you're night waking regularly. Have you tried eating all your carbs for the

day before bed? The other thought would be inadequate B6 or excess B6

analogues.

How long ago did you go low carb? The whole year? What's a few months ago

for the night waking? 2-3? 6-7? Some people don't do well low carb (I'm

one of them).

What raw B6 sources do you get? Avocado I see, but several a week wouldn't

cover your entire B6 requirement.

-Lana

" The art of simplicity is a puzzle of complexity. " - Horton

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Amy Sikes-Dorman <

amysikesdorman@...> wrote:

>

> I've only been eating this well for a year, really, but had a better than

> SAD before that.

>

> I do eat fish- salmon, mostly, and the occasional serving of scallops or

> shrimp- and I take cod liver oil, eat several avocados a week, etc. Net

> carbs are generally around 50 or so, occasionally as high as 75 if I decide

> to have a splurge sort of day and eat more fruit or a baked sweet potato or

> something-- that happens maybe once a week or every ten days.

>

> I've been waking at night for a few months now, but the panic attacks just

> started a month ago. There's been no real change in my routine, and while

> things are a bit stressful right now, the stress has remained constant for

> several months. I suppose it could just be finally getting to me, but to go

> from no panic attacks ever to three or four in a month seems odd, no?

>

> Strong family history of depression, not so much with the other things,

> though my father is an alcoholic.

[Guest guest]

Speaking generally, I would recommend a magnesium supplement, which has a

general calming effect. You might want to make sure you're getting enough Omega

3s.

mike

[Guest guest]

GABA requires B6, which Lana already mentioned as a possiblity. Apparently I

forgot a subject on my post, but I will reiterate: relying on diet alone, and

no supplements, to support the nutritional burden of postmodern nursing hasn't

worked, in my experience. So many times have I been in an LLL meeting, or

talked to a nursing mother, who claimed trouble with milk supply or other

nursing issues and had obvious deficiencies (like bulging eyes for B6).

Desh

> >

> >>

> >

> >>>

> >

> >>>

> >

> >>>

> >

> >>> Any thoughts on the cause or treatment of panic attacks, beyond

> >

> >>> conventional sedatives? I'd love any and all feedback!

> >

> >>>

> >

> >>>

> >

> >>> __________________________________________________________

> >

> >>> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.

> >

> >>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

> >

> >>>

> >

> >>>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, all. Apparently, the panic attacks are linked very closely to my cycle

(which has come back- my daughter is 26 months, and I've had it since she was 7

months despite exclusively nursing)-- I get them the week I have PMS and have

for the past two months. I was just able to link it to that this morning, for

obvious reasons.

COULD be B deficiency, though when I plug my daily diet into something like

FitDay, I show that I'm getting about 800% of the RDA for all the B vitamins,

give or take.... My milk supply has always been great and it's still WAY

above average for nursing a toddler- I could honestly pump enough to feed a

newborn in addition to feeding my toddler if I put my mind to it.

GABA is a thought- sorry to be dense, but is there a food source for that, or is

it a supplement?

From: deshabell@...

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 17:32:31 +0000

Subject: Re: Thoughts on panic attacks?

GABA requires B6, which Lana already mentioned as a possiblity. Apparently

I forgot a subject on my post, but I will reiterate: relying on diet alone, and

no supplements, to support the nutritional burden of postmodern nursing hasn't

worked, in my experience. So many times have I been in an LLL meeting, or

talked to a nursing mother, who claimed trouble with milk supply or other

nursing issues and had obvious deficiencies (like bulging eyes for B6).

Desh

> >

> >>

> >

> >>>

> >

> >>>

> >

> >>>

> >

> >>> Any thoughts on the cause or treatment of panic attacks, beyond

> >

> >>> conventional sedatives? I'd love any and all feedback!

> >

> >>>

> >

> >>>

> >

> >>> __________________________________________________________

> >

> >>> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.

> >

> >>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

> >

> >>>

> >

> >>>

[Guest guest]

How are your magnesium levels? A few days before my cycle, my mag levels tank

(I'm prone to restless legs) in spite of taking regular supplements.

GABA is a supplement. The form I have is a powder in a capsule -- recommended

to open up the capsule and dump it into a beverage for more rapid absorption.

-jennifer

On Dec 20, 2009, at 1:40 PM, Amy Sikes-Dorman wrote:

>

> Thanks, all. Apparently, the panic attacks are linked very closely to my

cycle (which has come back- my daughter is 26 months, and I've had it since she

was 7 months despite exclusively nursing)-- I get them the week I have PMS and

have for the past two months. I was just able to link it to that this morning,

for obvious reasons.

>

> COULD be B deficiency, though when I plug my daily diet into something like

FitDay, I show that I'm getting about 800% of the RDA for all the B vitamins,

give or take.... My milk supply has always been great and it's still WAY

above average for nursing a toddler- I could honestly pump enough to feed a

newborn in addition to feeding my toddler if I put my mind to it.

>

> GABA is a thought- sorry to be dense, but is there a food source for that, or

is it a supplement?

>

>

>

> From: deshabell@...

> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 17:32:31 +0000

> Subject: Re: Thoughts on panic attacks?

>

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> GABA requires B6, which Lana already mentioned as a possiblity.

Apparently I forgot a subject on my post, but I will reiterate: relying on diet

alone, and no supplements, to support the nutritional burden of postmodern

nursing hasn't worked, in my experience. So many times have I been in an LLL

meeting, or talked to a nursing mother, who claimed trouble with milk supply or

other nursing issues and had obvious deficiencies (like bulging eyes for B6).

>

> Desh

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>>>>>

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>>>>>

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>>>>>

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>>>>> Any thoughts on the cause or treatment of panic attacks, beyond

>

>>>

>

>>>>> conventional sedatives? I'd love any and all feedback!

>

>>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>>> __________________________________________________________

>

>>>

>

>>>>> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.

>

>>>

>

>>>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

>

>>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Quinolone drugs like cipro or levaquin can cause them as a side-effect. They

cause lasting changes in the brains of people who have had reactions to them so

that they can continue having panic attacks for years after an adverse reaction.

If you buy farm-raised fish, they are given pretty high amounts of the same

family of drugs - and once you've had a reaction any further exposure can create

worsening of symptoms.

I'm just saying this in case you've changed your diet and are including some

farm-raised fish to try to be healthier. They also give chickens baytril, which

is almost identical to cipro. It's been banned in the US but how much of our

food is from here?

--- In , Amy Sikes-Dorman <amysikesdorman@...>

wrote:

>

>

> Any thoughts on the cause or treatment of panic attacks, beyond conventional

sedatives? I'd love any and all feedback!

>

>

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.

> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

>

>

[Guest guest]

Look into Bryon 's The Work.

Joan

[Guest guest]

My current suspicion is actually low manganese levels-- it seems that deficiency

can lead to mood disorders, anxiety, and PMS symptoms. I've been inputting my

diet for about a month into FitDay and it appears that I'm consistently only

getting about .8mg per day, which is short of the RDA by about half. I've begun

supplementing as of today, so hopefully I won't see any panic attacks this

month...

From: joanlulich@...

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 02:40:08 +0000

Subject: Re: Thoughts on panic attacks?

Look into Bryon 's The Work.

Joan

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Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.

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