Dog food and BARF

January 10, 2010

I've read of the BARF diet and even cured our pup's heart arrythmia with it, but

then went back to kibble as the raw food in the yard attracted vultures which

scared the hens too much.

I just read the now famous letter circulating dog breeders about ethoxyquin and

the autoimmune problems it causes, shortening dog's lives. My older dog is just

13 and went deaf this year, also seems to be losing her vision and getting

arthritic. I read a dog in her size category (cocker spaniel) should be able to

live to 20. I worry about the ingredients in her food and would like to put her

on BARF but she won't eat raw meat.

Do they HAVE to eat the meat raw, or can it be cooked? I'd rather spend a small

fortune buying her real food than on some dog kibble with questionnable

ingredients. The Ethoxyquin article said in the old days dogs ate the leftovers

- cooked stews, vegetables, and bread - and thrived on it. CAN dogs thrive on

that diet?

" The Problem with Ethyoxyquin " http://www.avianweb.com/ethoxyquin.htm

BTW, Ethoxyquin is also in alfalfa pellets and many other feeds, just not

getting the coverage the same as in the dog food. Those breeders get uppity

when their dogs get sick!

January 10, 2010

On 1/10/2010 1:19 PM, haecklers wrote:

>Do they HAVE to eat the meat raw, or can it be cooked? I'd rather

spend a small fortune buying her real food than on some dog kibble with

questionnable >ingredients. The Ethoxyquin article said in the old days

dogs ate the leftovers - cooked stews, vegetables, and bread - and

thrived on it. CAN dogs thrive on that >diet?

I grew up on a small diversified farm in the midwest. We fed whatever

there was, to barn/herding/house dogs alike. If it was cold we'd put

part of the butchering leavings back and let it freeze, otherwise they

worked on it till it was gone. They got kitchen scraps of all kinds (a

few of those we cooked up just a bit, for instance they love pumpkin &

squash skin but needs a little steaming or baking); there wasn't much

table waste but they got that, too. They got the cracked eggs, the

bucket of milk that got dirty-tail switched....whatever they caught

except I never knew one to eat a rat or a snake (they killed them and

left lay. Hogs will eat them both, so throw 'em over the fence....

We had a number of dogs over the time I spent there, about 20 years.

The collies died at 16 & 17, had a mongrel that lived to 18, a bulldog

that lived to 16, a terrier that got killed (by a " hunter " ) when she was

12. The rest I don't remember about. Had a German Shepherd that got

really old and stayed on the back porch at night.

The only thing I ever remember in the way of ill health was that the

bulldog got some sort of skin lesion on the top of his head that he had

for quite a while; we put tar on it (which we also used on chickens that

we getting picked on by the others).

I don't remember having the vet out for a dog, ever. They didn't get

any sort of immunizations over the time I lived there but later when

rabies came to be more prevalent in the area I remember my uncle getting

his dogs rabies shots.

I feed my dogs pretty much that way now. One is 21 and won't be with us

much longer, heart is failing. The other is a 13 year old terrier who's

going strong.

SJ

January 10, 2010

There are several cooked dog food diets out there... but for the life of me

I can't recall the names of them. It has been so long...

Anyway when I first had my daughter, raw was just a pain so we did a cooked

food diet for a bit. The biggest thing I recall being an issue was calcium

- so bonemeal was a must. She was just as healthy on homemade cooked foods

as she had been on raw.

So I think dogs can thrive on the right leftovers. Stew would probably be

better than straight vegetables (not very filling) or bread (can be binding,

lots of dogs have trouble with gluten, etc) - I just made what we called

" dog loaf " which is basically a meatloaf made of ground meat of any kind,

eggs, a small amount of rice flour or corn starch to absorb the fat/juice,

some bonemeal and whatever leftover veggies were handy like peas carrots.

-Lana

" The art of simplicity is a puzzle of complexity. " - Horton

On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 11:19 AM, haecklers <haecklers@...> wrote:

> Do they HAVE to eat the meat raw, or can it be cooked? I'd rather spend a

> small fortune buying her real food than on some dog kibble with

> questionnable ingredients. The Ethoxyquin article said in the old days dogs

> ate the leftovers - cooked stews, vegetables, and bread - and thrived on it.

> CAN dogs thrive on that diet?

January 10, 2010

I feed raw. When I first got my rescue, the vet said he needed his teeth

cleaned, never had it done, and now he doesn't need it anymore.

I have a small dog, so he gets my left overs, like chicken wings. I cut all

meat off of bones, and he gets the bone. I supplement his bones with emu

from the emu farmer, beef scraps from the grass-fed beef processor, and

organ meat. Raw food is not that hard to come by, and SO much better for

them! Still has the good enzymes in it that they need.

Kathy

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons

Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 4:52 PM

Subject: Re: Dog food and BARF

There are several cooked dog food diets out there... but for the life of me

I can't recall the names of them. It has been so long...

Anyway when I first had my daughter, raw was just a pain so we did a cooked

food diet for a bit. The biggest thing I recall being an issue was calcium

- so bonemeal was a must. She was just as healthy on homemade cooked foods

as she had been on raw.

So I think dogs can thrive on the right leftovers. Stew would probably be

better than straight vegetables (not very filling) or bread (can be binding,

lots of dogs have trouble with gluten, etc) - I just made what we called

" dog loaf " which is basically a meatloaf made of ground meat of any kind,

eggs, a small amount of rice flour or corn starch to absorb the fat/juice,

some bonemeal and whatever leftover veggies were handy like peas carrots.

-Lana

" The art of simplicity is a puzzle of complexity. " - Horton

On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 11:19 AM, haecklers <haecklers@...

<mailto:haecklers%40> > wrote:

> Do they HAVE to eat the meat raw, or can it be cooked? I'd rather spend a

> small fortune buying her real food than on some dog kibble with

> questionnable ingredients. The Ethoxyquin article said in the old days

dogs

> ate the leftovers - cooked stews, vegetables, and bread - and thrived on

it.

> CAN dogs thrive on that diet?

January 10, 2010

> I feed my dogs pretty much that way now. One is 21 and won't be with us

> much longer, heart is failing.

Whoa! What kind of dog is that? I have a 19 and half year old Chihuahua who

also has a heart problem. He's been rawfed for 10 years, with more cooked in

the past year because that was his preference. Also no vax.

Suze

January 10, 2010

> I have a small dog, so he gets my left overs, like chicken wings. I cut

all

> meat off of bones, and he gets the bone.

Is the bone cooked or raw? I ask because cooked bones can be dangerous - too

dry, sharp and lacking enzymes to help digest them. These are the bones that

are much more problematic and cause choking, tears, impaction, etc. Raw

bones are not without risk, but it's generally much less than cooked bones.

Suze

January 11, 2010

> Do they HAVE to eat the meat raw, or can it be cooked? I'd rather spend a

small

> fortune buying her real food than on some dog kibble with questionnable

> ingredients. The Ethoxyquin article said in the old days dogs ate the

leftovers -

> cooked stews, vegetables, and bread - and thrived on it. CAN dogs thrive

on that

> diet?

You can cook it if you like. I personally would not feed my dogs just

leftovers - they are my family members - I have no kids - so they get the

highest quality food I can find. Of course things were different in the old

days.

I think a little more attention should be paid to the composition of the

diet than you can get with tossing them leftovers, but you needn't

" scientifically balance " it in any shape or form. The biggest problem that

is seen in homemade diets I think, is that people tend to not be aware they

should feed some calcium/mineral source. I usually feed a ground

meat/bone/organ mix (raw) but when I don't, I sometimes add Dr. Ron's

Cal/Mag to dog stew meals.

I think this website is one of the best sources on the Net on dog feeding

from commercial to raw: www.dogaware.com She talks about which supplements

to add and gives ideas on how to put together cooked or raw meals. I don't

agree with all her recommendations, but all in all, it's a very good

resource.

Suze

January 11, 2010

On 1/10/2010 6:49 PM, Suze Fisher wrote:

>> I feed my dogs pretty much that way now. One is 21 and won't be with us

>> much longer, heart is failing.

>>

> Whoa! What kind of dog is that?

>

A ShitZhu that someone beat nearly to death, then threw out the car

window on our road (witnessed by a neighbor, who initially thought it

was a bag of trash.

Not really " my kind " of dog, but she was so tough, she had to be

admired....and we fell in love. She will be sorely missed, both by the

humans and the remaining dog, who considers himself her primary caretaker...

SJ

January 11, 2010

> A ShitZhu that someone beat nearly to death, then threw out the car

> window on our road (witnessed by a neighbor, who initially thought it

> was a bag of trash.

How lucky she was that you took her in :-) Was she a puppy then, or did your

vet estimate her age? It's funny - that is the first question I always get

after I tell someone my dog's age. First they scrutinize him then ask if

I've had him since he was a puppy, I assume because that would be

confirmation of his real age. It's true that vets can't always estimate age

that well. I met a dog in town here who was somewhere between 19 and 23

according to the owner's vet. She'd had the dog for a long time, but not

since puppyhood. This was a medium-sized dog, mixed breed.

>

> Not really " my kind " of dog, but she was so tough, she had to be

> admired....and we fell in love. She will be sorely missed, both by the

> humans and the remaining dog, who considers himself her primary

caretaker...

It's really weird to live with and care for a dog for 20 years - you really

get so close and it becomes hard to imagine life without that dog as they've

been with you through so many stages of your life....

Suze

January 11, 2010

On 1/10/2010 10:06 PM, Suze Fisher wrote:.

> How lucky she was that you took her in :-) Was she a puppy then, or did your

vet estimate her age?

>

Had to take her to vet, had 11 breaks in ribs and legs, some obvious.

She was still a puppy, and young enough to still have her little " rice

teeth " , as my son called those tiny little baby teeth. I called 'em

needles!

> It's really weird to live with and care for a dog for 20 years - you really

> get so close and it becomes hard to imagine life without that dog as they've

> been with you through so many stages of your life....

>

I keep talking to myself about it, but boy, she's been my " kid " ever

since my real ones spread out all over the earth...

SJ

January 11, 2010

Thank you. It's scary because there is so much mis-information out there. I

realized that when I looked at sites for making cat food - they are pretty much

the same recipes as for dogs, but my vet said cats won't thrive on a carb-based

diet, they should have minimal carbs because they really cannot digest them. I

think given dogs history with people they can handle a more human diet, but

there are probably still differences; like their need for raw, cartilage-type

bones (tho my cocker won't touch anything that's not cooked).

>

> > Do they HAVE to eat the meat raw, or can it be cooked? I'd rather spend a

> small

> > fortune buying her real food than on some dog kibble with questionnable

> > ingredients. The Ethoxyquin article said in the old days dogs ate the

> leftovers -

> > cooked stews, vegetables, and bread - and thrived on it. CAN dogs thrive

> on that

> > diet?

>

> You can cook it if you like. I personally would not feed my dogs just

> leftovers - they are my family members - I have no kids - so they get the

> highest quality food I can find. Of course things were different in the old

> days.

>

> I think a little more attention should be paid to the composition of the

> diet than you can get with tossing them leftovers, but you needn't

> " scientifically balance " it in any shape or form. The biggest problem that

> is seen in homemade diets I think, is that people tend to not be aware they

> should feed some calcium/mineral source. I usually feed a ground

> meat/bone/organ mix (raw) but when I don't, I sometimes add Dr. Ron's

> Cal/Mag to dog stew meals.

>

> I think this website is one of the best sources on the Net on dog feeding

> from commercial to raw: www.dogaware.com She talks about which supplements

> to add and gives ideas on how to put together cooked or raw meals. I don't

> agree with all her recommendations, but all in all, it's a very good

> resource.

>

> Suze

>

January 11, 2010

They change as they age. Our old cocker (old before her time!) is like another

caretaker for the kids. She seems to understand so much about the family and

our routines and she tries so hard to be good.

>

> It's really weird to live with and care for a dog for 20 years - you really

> get so close and it becomes hard to imagine life without that dog as they've

> been with you through so many stages of your life....

>

> Suze

>

January 11, 2010

I have a recipe for raw cat diet on my website. If you email me I will

send you the link. I use grassfed meat, organs and bone. If I can't get

bone I add a calcium supplement but didn't think of using Dr. Ron's.

That's a great idea. The bonemeal others use I have heard can be full of

toxic heavy metals.

There is also mOrigins which I hope to get down here soon. It's raw, made

from grassfed beef or lamb with organs and green tripe and balanced with

bioavailable vitamins and ground raw bone. www.mOrigins.com

My cats enjoy the occasional chunk of grassfed liver and heart when I can

get it and decide to share.

Dawn

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of haecklers

Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:26 AM

Subject: Re: Dog food and BARF

Thank you. It's scary because there is so much mis-information out there. I

realized that when I looked at sites for making cat food - they are pretty

much the same recipes as for dogs, but my vet said cats won't thrive on a

carb-based diet, they should have minimal carbs because they really cannot

digest them. I think given dogs history with people they can handle a more

human diet, but there are probably still differences; like their need for

raw, cartilage-type bones (tho my cocker won't touch anything that's not

cooked).

--- In

<mailto: %40> , " Suze Fisher " <suzefisher@...>

wrote:

>

> > Do they HAVE to eat the meat raw, or can it be cooked? I'd rather spend

a

> small

> > fortune buying her real food than on some dog kibble with questionnable

> > ingredients. The Ethoxyquin article said in the old days dogs ate the

> leftovers -

> > cooked stews, vegetables, and bread - and thrived on it. CAN dogs thrive

> on that

> > diet?

>

> You can cook it if you like. I personally would not feed my dogs just

> leftovers - they are my family members - I have no kids - so they get the

> highest quality food I can find. Of course things were different in the

old

> days.

>

> I think a little more attention should be paid to the composition of the

> diet than you can get with tossing them leftovers, but you needn't

> " scientifically balance " it in any shape or form. The biggest problem that

> is seen in homemade diets I think, is that people tend to not be aware

they

> should feed some calcium/mineral source. I usually feed a ground

> meat/bone/organ mix (raw) but when I don't, I sometimes add Dr. Ron's

> Cal/Mag to dog stew meals.

>

> I think this website is one of the best sources on the Net on dog feeding

> from commercial to raw: www.dogaware.com She talks about which supplements

> to add and gives ideas on how to put together cooked or raw meals. I don't

> agree with all her recommendations, but all in all, it's a very good

> resource.

>

> Suze

>

January 11, 2010

> Had to take her to vet, had 11 breaks in ribs and legs, some obvious.

> She was still a puppy, and young enough to still have her little " rice

> teeth " , as my son called those tiny little baby teeth. I called 'em

> needles!

It's times like this that I realize I could, under the right circumstances,

become a very violent person. I would like to get my hands on the person who

beat your baby puppy...that degree of evil is beyond comprehension...

> I keep talking to myself about it, but boy, she's been my " kid " ever

> since my real ones spread out all over the earth...

I hear ya...I never had " real " kids and Pashoshe has outlasted my marriage,

subsequent relationships and two other dogs. I was 27 when I got him, and am

46 now...for a few more months. A lifetime!

Suze

January 11, 2010

> Thank you. It's scary because there is so much mis-information out there.

I

> realized that when I looked at sites for making cat food - they are pretty

much the

> same recipes as for dogs, but my vet said cats won't thrive on a

carb-based diet,

> they should have minimal carbs because they really cannot digest them. I

think

> given dogs history with people they can handle a more human diet, but

there are

> probably still differences; like their need for raw, cartilage-type bones

(tho my

> cocker won't touch anything that's not cooked).

Generally speaking, I think the optimal diet for dogs is the one of their

ancestors of the highest rank, meaning alpha grey wolves. They

preferentially hunt ungulates (red meat) and often eat organ meats first.

They don't eat the stomach contents, contrary to what you might read on the

internet, but shake out the contents and strip the fat off the intestines

and eat that, according to wolf biologist Mech.

That said, dogs are individuals and for a variety of reasons some may do

better with less fat or more fat, less protein or more, veggies or no

veggies, some carbs or no carbs, etc, etc. I think Dogaware provides some

good basic principles whether you are going to feed homemade raw or cooked.

*Variety* should be a guiding principle and the addition of canned sardines

once or twice a week, egg yolks, as well as yogurt and other odds and ends

will really help add a good base of nutrients. I've been feeding a " WAPF for

dogs " style diet for about 10 years now using the basic principles of WAPF

with an emphasis on nutrient-density, organ meats, and fat-soluble

activators. I feed a commercial raw food from range-fed cattle called

mOrigins (www.morigins.com). I order it without the added vitamins so it's

just ground meat/bone/organ/tripe. In addition I feed egg yolks, coconut

cream, some soup or steamed veggies here and there (mashed), all kinds of

leftovers - almost all meat such as shrimp, steak, burger, etc., canned

sardines, lots of bone stock and a variety of supplements including clay,

x-factor butter oil and fermented CLO.

I also have grassfed green tripe and organs that I add from time to time. I

don't feed much in the way of carbs other than some leftovers here and

there, but a homemade diet with some carbs is still 100X better than any

commercial canned or kibble, IMO.

FWIW.

Suze

January 11, 2010

I've tried " variety meats " on my dogs and they turn their noses up. Is that

something you have to do beginning when they're young to get them to try it?

Of the 2 dogs and 2 cats, only the one we got as a kitten really relishes raw

food, and she'll only occasionally eat things like chicken liver, gizzards,

hearts, etc. Mostly her " raw food diet " is that she catches mice and baby

bunnies and eats them without us seeing it happen.

I'm hoping I can ease them into it with partly cooked meat that gets more rare

as time goes on. I tried cottage cheese on my cocker today and she only looked

at it suspiciously. Maybe the problem we have to overcome is that in the past

we used treats to trick them into swallowing medicines and she eventually got

wise to it, but the tripe I think they just don't like!

>

> > Thank you. It's scary because there is so much mis-information out there.

> I

> > realized that when I looked at sites for making cat food - they are pretty

> much the

> > same recipes as for dogs, but my vet said cats won't thrive on a

> carb-based diet,

> > they should have minimal carbs because they really cannot digest them. I

> think

> > given dogs history with people they can handle a more human diet, but

> there are

> > probably still differences; like their need for raw, cartilage-type bones

> (tho my

> > cocker won't touch anything that's not cooked).

>

> Generally speaking, I think the optimal diet for dogs is the one of their

> ancestors of the highest rank, meaning alpha grey wolves. They

> preferentially hunt ungulates (red meat) and often eat organ meats first.

> They don't eat the stomach contents, contrary to what you might read on the

> internet, but shake out the contents and strip the fat off the intestines

> and eat that, according to wolf biologist Mech.

>

> That said, dogs are individuals and for a variety of reasons some may do

> better with less fat or more fat, less protein or more, veggies or no

> veggies, some carbs or no carbs, etc, etc. I think Dogaware provides some

> good basic principles whether you are going to feed homemade raw or cooked.

> *Variety* should be a guiding principle and the addition of canned sardines

> once or twice a week, egg yolks, as well as yogurt and other odds and ends

> will really help add a good base of nutrients. I've been feeding a " WAPF for

> dogs " style diet for about 10 years now using the basic principles of WAPF

> with an emphasis on nutrient-density, organ meats, and fat-soluble

> activators. I feed a commercial raw food from range-fed cattle called

> mOrigins (www.morigins.com). I order it without the added vitamins so it's

> just ground meat/bone/organ/tripe. In addition I feed egg yolks, coconut

> cream, some soup or steamed veggies here and there (mashed), all kinds of

> leftovers - almost all meat such as shrimp, steak, burger, etc., canned

> sardines, lots of bone stock and a variety of supplements including clay,

> x-factor butter oil and fermented CLO.

>

> I also have grassfed green tripe and organs that I add from time to time. I

> don't feed much in the way of carbs other than some leftovers here and

> there, but a homemade diet with some carbs is still 100X better than any

> commercial canned or kibble, IMO.

>

> FWIW.

>

> Suze

>

January 11, 2010

On the link Suze shared, they said one thing to do for calcium (which I plan to

try) is to leave eggshells out overnight to dry then grind them in a coffee

grinder and add that to the food as a calcium supplement. With 7 hens, we've

got plenty of good quality eggshells!

> >

> > > Do they HAVE to eat the meat raw, or can it be cooked? I'd rather spend

> a

> > small

> > > fortune buying her real food than on some dog kibble with questionnable

> > > ingredients. The Ethoxyquin article said in the old days dogs ate the

> > leftovers -

> > > cooked stews, vegetables, and bread - and thrived on it. CAN dogs thrive

> > on that

> > > diet?

> >

> > You can cook it if you like. I personally would not feed my dogs just

> > leftovers - they are my family members - I have no kids - so they get the

> > highest quality food I can find. Of course things were different in the

> old

> > days.

> >

> > I think a little more attention should be paid to the composition of the

> > diet than you can get with tossing them leftovers, but you needn't

> > " scientifically balance " it in any shape or form. The biggest problem that

> > is seen in homemade diets I think, is that people tend to not be aware

> they

> > should feed some calcium/mineral source. I usually feed a ground

> > meat/bone/organ mix (raw) but when I don't, I sometimes add Dr. Ron's

> > Cal/Mag to dog stew meals.

> >

> > I think this website is one of the best sources on the Net on dog feeding

> > from commercial to raw: www.dogaware.com She talks about which supplements

> > to add and gives ideas on how to put together cooked or raw meals. I don't

> > agree with all her recommendations, but all in all, it's a very good

> > resource.

> >

> > Suze

> >

>

January 11, 2010

My holistic vet recommends to bake them in the oven at 350 for 10 minutes before

grinding them.

When I was a kid, we spread out eggshells back out for the chickens to eat. When

get an abundance of ground eggshells, I put them on the horse's pasture, or

spread them in my garden to add calcium to the soil.

Kathy

---- haecklers <haecklers@...> wrote:

=============

On the link Suze shared, they said one thing to do for calcium (which I plan to

try) is to leave eggshells out overnight to dry then grind them in a coffee

grinder and add that to the food as a calcium supplement. With 7 hens, we've

got plenty of good quality eggshells!

> >

> > > Do they HAVE to eat the meat raw, or can it be cooked? I'd rather spend

> a

> > small

> > > fortune buying her real food than on some dog kibble with questionnable

> > > ingredients. The Ethoxyquin article said in the old days dogs ate the

> > leftovers -

> > > cooked stews, vegetables, and bread - and thrived on it. CAN dogs thrive

> > on that

> > > diet?

> >

> > You can cook it if you like. I personally would not feed my dogs just

> > leftovers - they are my family members - I have no kids - so they get the

> > highest quality food I can find. Of course things were different in the

> old

> > days.

> >

> > I think a little more attention should be paid to the composition of the

> > diet than you can get with tossing them leftovers, but you needn't

> > " scientifically balance " it in any shape or form. The biggest problem that

> > is seen in homemade diets I think, is that people tend to not be aware

> they

> > should feed some calcium/mineral source. I usually feed a ground

> > meat/bone/organ mix (raw) but when I don't, I sometimes add Dr. Ron's

> > Cal/Mag to dog stew meals.

> >

> > I think this website is one of the best sources on the Net on dog feeding

> > from commercial to raw: www.dogaware.com She talks about which supplements

> > to add and gives ideas on how to put together cooked or raw meals. I don't

> > agree with all her recommendations, but all in all, it's a very good

> > resource.

> >

> > Suze

> >

>

January 12, 2010

>

> Thank you. It's scary because there is so much mis-information out there. I

realized that when I looked at sites for making cat food - they are pretty much

the same recipes as for dogs, but my vet said cats won't thrive on a carb-based

diet, they should have minimal carbs because they really cannot digest them.

>

That's because all felines, including house cats, are obligate carnivores. This

means that in order to be healthy and thrive, they must get the nourishment they

need from the flesh, bones and organs of other animals. In other words, trying

to feeding carbs to a carnivore like a cat is like trying to feed steak to an

herbivore like a horse - it's utterly unnatural food for them! And because the

vast majority of commercial cat foods are chock full of carbohydrate rich things

like corn, soy, rice, oats and wheat, the rampant use of these extremely

unnatural, highly processed foods is one of the biggest contributing factors to

the epidemic of chronic degenerative diseases from which so many pet cats are

suffering these days.

This website http://www.rawfedcats.org is all about how and why to feed cats a

more natural diet of WHOLE raw foods, which is based on nature's model of a prey

animal. When you stop to think about it, this makes total sense, because no

feline carnivore in nature eats cooked food or ground raw food or ever hunts

down things like corn, rice, soy or wheat to eat. Cats are clearly hunters that

are naturally designed to eat their prey. They're predators, just like lions

and tigers, so it's only logical that they should be fed a smaller version of

what those big cats eat. Plus, eating raw animal based foods in their *whole*

state, (since no adult predator in nature ever eats a diet consisting of mushed

up ground food) especially chunks of raw meat and raw meaty bones, actually

helps to scrub the animal's the teeth clean and keep their gums strong and

healthy. There's no doubt that feeding commercial pet food to our pets over

time almost always leads to things like gingivitis, tartar build up and

periodontal disease, and it's well known that poor oral health is often a

precursor to all kinds of more serious systemic diseases.

Check out the photos on this site that show a comparison between the mouths of

two cats; one (with clean white teeth and healthy pink gums) fed a diet of whole

raw foods, and the other (suffering from a horrible case of gum disease) that

was fed nothing but commercial junk pet food its whole life:

http://rawfed.com/dental/dental.html

The same is true for dogs:

http://rawfed.com/why.html

Dogs are actually nearly identical, (on the inside) anatomically and

physiologically speaking, to the gray wolf. Not too long ago the sonian

Institute changed the Latin name of the domestic dog to Canis lupus familiaris

to reflect the dog's extremely close genetic relationship to Canis lupus, the

gray wolf.

Gray wolves are basically opportunistic carnivores. This means that while

wolves *can* eat some vegetation, they're essentially predators whose bodies

were designed to thrive on consuming the flesh and bones of their prey. So just

like domestic cats, the diet of our domestic dogs should also ideally be based

on whole, raw, animal based foods.

There's an extremely busy group with nearly 17,000 members that helps

people understand how and why to feed their carnivorous pets what they call a

" prey model diet " , which is in fact quite different from what many people call a

" barf " diet. After doing exhaustive research on this subject, it's become clear

to me that the reasoning behind the idea of feeding whole, raw, animal based

foods to our pet cats and dogs is absolutely spot on.

Here's the link in case anyone's interested in checking it out:

http://pets./group/rawfeeding/

And another to a sister list that focuses on feeding cats:

http://pets./group/rawcat/

I've bookmarked a number of other links to articles and resources that address

the feeding of whole raw foods to our house carnivores, so if anyone would like

more info on this subject, please feel free to contact me offlist as I'd be more

than happy to share what I've learned.

Elan

January 16, 2010

Suze,

Thanks so much for all the information! My dogs went on a primarily meat diet

this week, thanks to what you shared (the recipes I had found that I WAS going

to try were 1/3 meat, the rest carbs and veggies). They seem so much more

content now than on IAMS.

My husband was worried it would make them pesty beggars when we prepare food or

eat but I think before they were having blood sugar problems causing cravings

all day - now I feed them, they're done eating and they don't bother us.

Amazing! We'll see if my (shouldn't be) old cocker perks up on this.

It's nice having a younger dog who is embracing this enthusiastically to set a

good example. If she doesn't eat her food in time, he'll make a go for it,

which usually gets her trying to eat it so he can't have it!