thyroid

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/24/1999 9:39:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

cheryl@... writes:

<<

“Many of my patients with chronic Lyme disease also have evidence of

Hashimoto’s thyroiditis. >>

this is my actual diagnosis t 4 was wnl tsh was wnl

(but above what the new thinking suggests is normal..)..what was abnormal was

ant-thyrobglobulin, and anti-rpo...or anti-thyroperoxidase

normal lab values for these is 2 or less...one of mine was 20 and the other

784

both well out of range....

there is a fabulous thyroid newsgroup you can search/access thru dejanews.com

or you can start at the miningco.com and go to their health area and look up

thyroid

if i did not learn what i did from there...i would have been left on 25 mcg

of synthroid last Dec. 1 instead of the combo of t3 & t4 i am now on, and a

total dose which approximates a total of 175 mcg of Synthroid...the wrost

part of being ill, is becoming your own advocate...so hard to do when you

feel so ill...but noone cares as much about you...as yourself...so keep

learning and questioning....I had to fire 2 doctors along the way....so you

have to remember if you do not get satisfactory treatment, do not give up.

Bernadette

[Guest guest]

Cheryl, What is this temp taking thing supposed to help find out. How can you

tell if you hav ethe problem by taking the temp -Val

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/24/1999 1:35:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

cheryl@... writes:

<< Common signs and symptoms of hypothyroidism are low basal body

termparture, depression, difficulty in losing weight, dry skin, headaches,

lethargy or fatigue, menstrual problems, recurrent infections, constipation

and sensitivity to cold. >>

add in cognitive difficulties esp. short term memory loss, mood disorders,

confusion, carpal tunnel syndrome, numbness and tingling...weight gain or

loss EVEN in hypo...constipation.....to name a few more Bernadette

[Guest guest]

Cheryl, Thank you for ther info. do you understand why they want you to put

it under your armpit. What if the thermometer is a digital one? ttyl-Val

[Guest guest]

From: ValP74@...

<<<Cheryl, What is this temp taking thing supposed to help find out. How can you

tell if you hav ethe problem by taking the temp -Val >>>

Hey hun! In Mike Murray's Encyclopedia of Nutritional Supplements, it says:

" The basal body temperature is perhaps the most sensitive functional test of

thyroid function. Your body temperature reflects your metabolic rate, which is

largely determined by hormones secreted by the thyroid gland. The function of

the thyroid gland, therefore, can be determined by simply measuring your basal

body temperature. All that you need is a thermometer. The simple steps are:

1. At night before going to sleep, shake the thermometer until is registers

below 95 degrees and place it by your bed.

2. When you awake, place the thermometer in your armpit for a full ten minutes.

It is important to make as little movement as possible. Lying and resting with

your eyes closed is best. Do not get up until the 10 minuite test is completed.

3. After 10 minutes, read and record the temperature and date.

4. Record the temperature for at least three mornings (preferably at the same

time each day) and give the information to your physician. Menstruating women

must perform the test on the second, third, and fourth days of menstruation.

Men and postmenopausal women can perform the test at any time.

Your basal body temperature should be between 97.6 and 98.2 degrees Fahrenheit.

Low basal body temperatures are quite common and may reflect hypothyroidism.

Common signs and symptoms of hypothyroidism are low basal body termparture,

depression, difficulty in losing weight, dry skin, headaches, lethargy or

fatigue, menstrual problems, recurrent infections, constipation and sensitivity

to cold.

High basal body temperatures (above 98.6 degrees F) are less common but may be

evidence of hyperthyroidism. Common signs and symptoms of hyperthyroidism

include bulging eyeballs, fast pulse, hyperactivity, inability to gain weight,

insomnia, irritability, menstrual problems, and nervousness. "

Hope this helps! ;o)

[Guest guest]

Hi Cheryl,

Thanks for that informative information. You are a jewel! Do you know if

the thermometer can be the battery operated kind, I can't read the original

types?

Hugs,

Marta

-

>From: cheryl@...

>

>From: ValP74@...

>

><<<Cheryl, What is this temp taking thing supposed to help find out. How

can you

>tell if you hav ethe problem by taking the temp -Val >>>

>

>Hey hun! In Mike Murray's Encyclopedia of Nutritional Supplements, it

says:

>

> " The basal body temperature is perhaps the most sensitive functional test

of thyroid function. Your body temperature reflects your metabolic rate,

which is largely determined by hormones secreted by the thyroid gland. The

function of the thyroid gland, therefore, can be determined by simply

measuring your basal body temperature. All that you need is a thermometer.

The simple steps are:

>1. At night before going to sleep, shake the thermometer until is

registers below 95 degrees and place it by your bed.

>2. When you awake, place the thermometer in your armpit for a full ten

minutes. It is important to make as little movement as possible. Lying and

resting with your eyes closed is best. Do not get up until the 10 minuite

test is completed.

>3. After 10 minutes, read and record the temperature and date.

>4. Record the temperature for at least three mornings (preferably at the

same time each day) and give the information to your physician.

Menstruating women must perform the test on the second, third, and fourth

days of menstruation. Men and postmenopausal women can perform the test at

any time.

>

>Your basal body temperature should be between 97.6 and 98.2 degrees

Fahrenheit. Low basal body temperatures are quite common and may reflect

hypothyroidism. Common signs and symptoms of hypothyroidism are low basal

body termparture, depression, difficulty in losing weight, dry skin,

headaches, lethargy or fatigue, menstrual problems, recurrent infections,

constipation and sensitivity to cold.

>

>High basal body temperatures (above 98.6 degrees F) are less common but may

be evidence of hyperthyroidism. Common signs and symptoms of

hyperthyroidism include bulging eyeballs, fast pulse, hyperactivity,

inability to gain weight, insomnia, irritability, menstrual problems, and

nervousness. "

>

>Hope this helps! ;o)

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/24/1999 11:04:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

ValP74@... writes:

<< What is this temp taking thing supposed to help find out. >>

people with a thyroid problem due to hypo...often will have a subnormal body

temp...points to hypothyroidism even if lab tests are normal.....but it

sometimes is hard to get a Dr. to treat on symptoms alone....but you can find

them...or if you can quantify abnormal antibodies, it will help your case for

replacement thyroid meds Bernadette

[Guest guest]

Bernadette, thanks for the info. If you have consistent low temps can the

tyroid meds help to bring them back to normal. -Val

[Guest guest]

Dr. Chiu recently pointed out the impact of minocycline on thyroid - and the

benefits of Vit C

-Mike-

rheumatic Thyroid

>From: Gwen Armstrong <armstrog@...>

>

>Hi Group

>Well I am at it again.. Get over a total knee replacement and now am

battling thyroid

>nodules.

>Had a fine needle biopsy under Ultra sound and they found " atypical " cells.

>Went to see the surgeon this am and am booked for a partial, maybe complete

Thyroidectomy.

>With the Canadian hospital situation it will be at least a couple of

months.

>What the #$%%^* next.

>Bit of info I got from the DR--- Minocycline causes " black thyroid " This

is a darkening og

>the gland just like what tetracycline does to teeth.

>Would like to hear of anyones experience with a thyroidectomy.

>thanks

>Gwen

>

>

>---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Dear Sandy,

> My thyroid is really high, so that may be why I've lost weight and I'm

> always hot. Plus my blood pressure was up, she wants to retest both of

> these soon.

You should address both of these problems.

> Also, surprising, by rheumatoid (inflamation) is way up from 2 and even 3

> years ago. It doesn't make sens. My body has a LOT less inflamation (to

> look at it and the way I feel) than it did then. Do I need to take more

> doxycycline. I remember reading in the protocol about taking it daily

> until the blood tests show the same results that the person shows.???

The way you feel is the important thing. Some healthy people show high

rheumatoid factors when no disease is present, and some people with RA show

normal rheumatoid factor. Often the symptoms disappear before the blood work

comes down to normal, and for other people the reverse is true.

Personally, I'd stick with what you're doing now as it's obviously worked for

you.

Chris.

[Guest guest]

Hi Sharon,

WOnder if tetracycline would help with this form of autoimmune disease?

Anyone know???

Blessings & velcro hugs,

Chris

PS - A few " non lymies " have emailed me this week with folks they know going

through the same thing. May I pass along the info you've provided? (I'll be

glad to include or exclude your screen name - which ever you prefer - if

you're okay with info being shared.)

[Guest guest]

Hi Sharon

Is this test called " tests of the antibodies to the thyroid " ?

thanks for all the info

Lea

<< I haven't been in touch with the group for a while, as I have said things

here are very difficult.

To update and make you aware of this, my youngest was just diagnosed with

Hashimoto's thyroiditis. It showed itself with rage attacks and a real

change in his personality. Until six months ago, although suffering form

Lyme, Dan was always a consistent student and we called him our gentle

giant. Midsummer he started acting out violently, ie. smashing the walls,

getting in fights, cursing, withdrawing. At first I just thought it was

being 15. But I remembered how my oldest son, Mike, underwent a real

personality change when he had neuro lyme. So we began the tests, 24 hour

EEG, drug tests, MRI and a FULL thyroid battery. That is where I want to

educate you.

Most of us when we go to our GPs for a thyroid series only get the T3,T4

and TSH done. That is standard. But a full series includes tests of the

antibodies to the thyroid. In other words, we can develop an autoimmune

attack on our own thyroid, just like in Lupus. But that will not show up

on a normal series of tests until it is highly advanced. So, if you are

showing any signs of Hashimoto's disease, which is like hypothyroid, have

your dr. check you more thoroughly.

How does this relate to Lyme? Both of my sons plus the rest of us have had

Lyme severely. New evidence is showing autoimmune problems can come from

Lyme.

Hope you are all feeling better today than yesterday.

Sharon from New Jersey

>>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sharon,

I am sorry to hear about your son. Is there anything they can do for this?

Also, what was your LLMD's opinion of this issue or was it their diagnosis?

Irene

[Guest guest]

Sharon,

I was just (a minute ago!) on the phone to a friend who has suspected

thyroid problems and we were discussing appropriate tests. I was reading

her some info from the Lyme NG about thyroid problems recently posted. I

was starting to rethink the whole thyroid problem myself as I've

recently had a severe bout of anxiety and lower body temps and I

remembered that I tested normal for TSH but I do have antithyroid

antibodies. My doctor said there was nothing to do about it. But Art D.

and Bernadette on the NG both said (I think) that they had antibodies w/

normal TSH and they were prescribed a small amount of synthroid which

seemed to be working for them. I plan to talk to my doctor about this.

I

I hope that this new information helps your son. My thoughts are with

you,

beth

Iinfected in 1984, Western Sierras, California

undiagnosed rash

Dormant disease w/ low grade symptoms

Disease became active in late '98

Primarily neuro symptoms

ELISA - neg. Western Blot - equivocal

4 out 5 Bb specific bands positive or equivocal

suggestive of OLD infection

Abx so far: 6 wks Doxy, 13 wks IV Rocephin,

ongoing Flagyl and Zith, Work with LLMD in San Francisco

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/25/00 10:21:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,

Bythesunrise@... writes:

<< So, if you are

showing any signs of Hashimoto's disease, which is like hypothyroid, have

your dr. check you more thoroughly.

How does this relate to Lyme? Both of my sons plus the rest of us have had

Lyme severely. New evidence is showing autoimmune problems can come from

Lyme. >>

yes...thyroid antibodies are anti-tpo (anti-thyroid peroxidase)

and anti- thyroglobulin....you need to check both...also a TRH

stimulation test...I had all 3 done and had antibodies way elevated....and

failed the TRH...also Lyme seems to bring out stuff we are kinda already

pre-disposed to....due to family history.....

when going on thyroid replacement meds...seek a combo med of T3 & T4...the T3

component seems to help with mood and energy.....imagine T3 as the gas u are

using when your body (car engine) is working...imagine T4 as the gas in the

tank you convert into T3 to make your body (car) run...Armour is a natural

combo form, I am on the synthetic Cytomel (T3) and Synthroid (T4)

unfortunately two pills....

supposedly Lyme patients have a problem converting T4 into T3 on a cellular

level which is why a combo is preferred for Lyme patients...

my daughter is still out of school and when we see the dr. Sat., I am going

to ask to recheck the anti-bodies...she had a baseline that was not normal (2

or less) on one....anti-body test...and now that she is so ill with the pos.

EBV, it is time to recheck the thyroid...btw...if a Dr. routinely checks

thyroid levels they only do a T4 and a TSH level...TSH is NOT indiciative of

thyroid function...if you are getting levels rechecked INSIST on a T3 level

also...and if you are started on meds...you need readjustment every 6-8 weeks

(labs tests and meds)

till you get to the correct dose..

if you are on meds, take by themselves...without vitamins....if you are on

any T3, best to split the dose into at least 2 doses...and no T3 after late

afternnon, or it could add to a Lymers lack of sleep.....Bernadette

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/25/00 9:40:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,

elsbeth@... writes:

<< . I

was starting to rethink the whole thyroid problem myself as I've

recently had a severe bout of anxiety and lower body temps and I

remembered that I tested normal for TSH but I do have antithyroid

antibodies. My doctor said there was nothing to do about it. But Art D.

and Bernadette on the NG both said (I think) that they had antibodies w/

normal TSH and they were prescribed a small amount of synthroid which

seemed to be working for them. I plan to talk to my doctor about this.

I >>

My throid antibodies were 783 for one that was supposed to be 2 or less...and

15 or so for the other one that is also supposed to be 2 or less....

My TRH stimulation test confirmed my thyroid basically does not respond when

asked to make thyroid stimulating hormone...I started on 25 mcg of

Synthroid...am now on 100...and have been on 25 mcg Cytomel since last

April......so I am on the equivalent of 200 mcg. Synthroid...not a small

amount...if you have anti-bodeis...you go see an endo as the diagnosis will

be Hashimoto's autoimmune thyroiditis and you will be started on meds.....I

have to tell you, before about.com's area and the thyroid newsgroup...as an

R.N., my knowledge was as lacking as MOST doctors....they only know

basics...push for more thyroid tests and see an endo if your dr. doesn't have

a clue past TSH tests...Bernadette

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/25/00 8:52:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, melillo1@...

writes:

<< How does this relate to Lyme? Both of my sons plus the rest of us have had

Lyme severely. New evidence is showing autoimmune problems can come from

Lyme. >>

that is why I harp on everyone checking deep into thyroid as the symptoms

mimic lyme big time.....

most drs. will not order a T3 level...so let me restate what to make sure is

on the lab slip...

T3, T4, anti-tpo, anti-thyroglobulin...TSH.....(if they add T3 uptake

etc...let em....but the first 5 I list are MOST important

I would also insist on a TRH stim test....(you can look normal on all

labs.until this one)

I recently did a post on the thyroid newsgroup about how it goes to get it

done...often that will be the clincher to confirm diagnosis.....

hey also remember...if you get on meds...take lab levels consistently before

you take your drugs for the day so recent intake does not give an elevated

reading...Bernadette

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/25/00 8:52:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, melillo1@...

writes:

<< Until six months ago, although suffering form

Lyme, Dan was always a consistent student and we called him our gentle

giant. Midsummer he started acting out violently, ie. smashing the walls,

getting in fights, cursing, withdrawing. >>

which can be better helped by a combo med...NEJM had an article last Jan/Feb

99 on the issue...available thru link at 's about.com thyroid

area...Bernadette

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/26/00 10:48:13 AM Eastern Standard Time,

melillo1@... writes:

<< Dan has

to have a echo of the thyroid to rule out any growths before anything else

is done. Could have a goiter or a nodule that needs addressing.

>>

Sharon, I had an ultrasound which showed a multi-nodular goiter...the doctor

(endo)

decided the nodules were too small to biopsy....and the thyroid scan showed

they were " cold nodules " so....he started thyroid meds which also helped by

supressing their growth....when you go for the ultrasound or whatever...ask

them to make a duplicate copy...your doctor can read the result...but it is

always better to have the actual copy when going to an endo...and if u ask

for it upfront, they can make a second copy that does not have to be

returned....if you ask after...they will let you sign-out the original...but

you are supposed to give them back....I reccomend getting a copy for you to

have when the actual film is done...aleeviates a lot of stress for the

" mom-lymer " Bernadette

[Guest guest]

Hi Sharon,

I am so sorry you are now having problems with Dan, I pray that he can

be treated and be your old normal " Gentle Giant " I am glad you had him

tested, it is easy to attribute outbursts of a 15 year old as just

adolescence. Awhile back you posted about chelation therapy, asking if any

of us knew of anything about it, listening to the radio a few days ago, I

heard an advertisement for " The Cherry Hill Wellness Center " I jotted down

their number, it just took me twenty minutes to find where I jotted it down,

but here it is: 1-856-489-0505. I sure hope it was you that was looking

for this information, if not sorry about that, and I am red-faced.

Hugs and prayers,

Marta

> From: Sharon Melillo <melillo1@...>

>

> I haven't been in touch with the group for a while, as I have said things

> here are very difficult.

> To update and make you aware of this, my youngest was just diagnosed with

> Hashimoto's thyroiditis. It showed itself with rage attacks and a real

> change in his personality. Until six months ago, although suffering form

> Lyme, Dan was always a consistent student and we called him our gentle

> giant. Midsummer he started acting out violently, ie. smashing the walls,

> getting in fights, cursing, withdrawing. At first I just thought it was

> being 15. But I remembered how my oldest son, Mike, underwent a real

> personality change when he had neuro lyme. So we began the tests, 24 hour

> EEG, drug tests, MRI and a FULL thyroid battery. That is where I want to

> educate you.

>

> Most of us when we go to our GPs for a thyroid series only get the T3,T4

> and TSH done. That is standard. But a full series includes tests of the

> antibodies to the thyroid. In other words, we can develop an autoimmune

> attack on our own thyroid, just like in Lupus. But that will not show up

> on a normal series of tests until it is highly advanced. So, if you are

> showing any signs of Hashimoto's disease, which is like hypothyroid, have

> your dr. check you more thoroughly.

>

> How does this relate to Lyme? Both of my sons plus the rest of us have

had

> Lyme severely. New evidence is showing autoimmune problems can come from

> Lyme.

>

> Hope you are all feeling better today than yesterday.

> Sharon from New Jersey

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Bernadette for all the thyroid info. I have a feeling that this is a

major missing piece of my treatment ( and probably lots of others).

beth

[Guest guest]

: Have you had a needle biopsy? If not, I do know that it might be

beneficial just to be sure that it is not cancerous. (Thyroid cancer is

very, very curable). I assume you have had the nuclear uptake tests done as

part of your diagnosis process. I do think it is important to tell your dr.

(endocrinologist?) that you feel it is getting larger so that he/she can

provide you with proper direction and assurance that it is under control.

I have a single " hot " nodule goiter and Graves disease so I do know how you

feel about it getting larger (kind of makes you think you look like you

swallowed a donut!). I found out the really hard way from my current (and

3rd endocrinologist) that the blood tests are measured against a range and

that not everyone fits in that range, i.e. I had been considered " high but

within the normal range " - however, the thyroid levels were way too high for

ME, so much so that I was suffering from hyperthyroidism which caused a rare

symptom: getting paralyzed from the neck down, lasting from 20 mins. up to 2

hrs. (called Thyrotoxic Periodic Paralysis). So even though I was within the

" normal range " it was not normal for me. It might be worth it for your endo

to re-analyse test results and/or re-test, and to order a needle biopsy which

can be done in a dr's office.

Feel free to e-mail me if you would like to talk more. Best wishes.

Babs

RA 8/98, DX 4/99, AP 11/99

200 mg. Minocin

2.5 mg. Methotrexate

112 mcg. Synthroid

2 mg. Hytrin

10 mg. Lipitor

Mestinon

Vits. & Misc. Suplmts.

[Guest guest]

THis must be more good news. My thyroid meds were just dropped. I wondered if

it was because I was getting better. My meds were .5 mg, the highest dose any

doctor has ever seen. Now it is merely .4mg. Gloria thanks for sharing your

information about the thyroid. Every small positive change is so exciting.

In a message dated 03/07/2000 9:16:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,

rheumaticonelist writes:

> From: Gloria M Tate <missgloria@...>

> Subject: Re: AP and thyroid

>

> dear babs,

> I could tell the RA was affecting my thyroid because I had been on the

> same replacement dosage of synthroid (.15 mg) for twenty years. Then, as

> my RA got really bad, my thyroid started getting weaker and every three

> months I had to increase my dosage of synthroid. I got up to .3 mg which

> is very high for me according to my doctor.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I am glad I wrote in then about the thyroid. It is amazing how we know

more than the doctors, but it is through trial and error and sharing with

each other. My doctor had no clue why my thyroid was dropping so much

and he was amazed that it recovered on the antibiotics. As I said, mine

is going down again on the doxy, so that is probably a clear indication

that I need a change. I just keep hoping against hope that it will work

and I won't have to start over with something else. That is why this

sharing is invaluable. I am sure your thyroid is just like mine in that

it was being damaged and now is being allowed to recover. We are the

only two people who have said anything about it though.

What medicines and what dosages are you taking at the moment?

Thank you,

Gloria

________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Hi Gloria and ,

I guess I should have jumped in too! I have Hashimotos for about 18 yrs.

Since I developed CFS my thyroid got much worse, but now on antibiotics for

over 3 years I am taking the lowest dose of synthroid I have ever taken. My

endocrinlogist says my health is better and my thyroid is better. So I also

have had this amazing improvement. I must caution though that when I was

sickest my TSH levels seemed to suggest that my thyroid was better then. In

fact it was much worse as my body was unable to use the synthroid I was

taking. This is why a lot of us do better on cytomel or Armour. If any of

you suspect you may have this problem try getting the doctor to test what

is called a free T3 level. If it is low while TSH is normal you probably

need the cytomel or Armour thyroid meds.

Best wishes,

a Carnes

> From: Gloria M Tate <missgloria@...>

>

> Hi ,

> I am glad I wrote in then about the thyroid. It is amazing how we know

> more than the doctors, but it is through trial and error and sharing with

> each other. My doctor had no clue why my thyroid was dropping so much

> and he was amazed that it recovered on the antibiotics. As I said, mine

> is going down again on the doxy, so that is probably a clear indication

> that I need a change. I just keep hoping against hope that it will work

> and I won't have to start over with something else. That is why this

> sharing is invaluable. I am sure your thyroid is just like mine in that

> it was being damaged and now is being allowed to recover. We are the

> only two people who have said anything about it though.

> What medicines and what dosages are you taking at the moment?

> Thank you,

> Gloria

> ________________________________________________________________

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