Re: Milk causes bigger insulin issues than white bread?

[Guest guest]

I would start by questioning the validity of the notion that milk causes bigger

insulin releases than white bread. I'd like to see several well designed and

conducted studies before I would take this as fact.

Next I would say the juxtaposition is pretty irrelevant. Pastured raw milk is

quite different than white bread in many, many ways. So if the milk spikes

insulin more than white bread you're only considering one of many factors.

Next I would say that spiking insulin in and of itself is not a problem. In

fact, it's pretty much how the whole insulin system is suppose to work. I'm

skeptical of the claim that repeated spikes in insulin causes insulin

resistance. I think we don't really have a clear picture of all the factors that

lead to insulin resistance.

This is a complex issue that we are just beginning to understand.

Cheers,

--- In , " slbooks4me " <beauty4ashesisaiah61@...>

wrote:

>

> Did anyone read this article and if so what are your thoughts?

>

> http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-insulin/

>

> TIA

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm pretty positive, through my own experiences and research, that

one of the main factor, if not *the* sole factor, is large amounts

grain products consumed, by way of it's phytochemicals and protein

substances. It may be primarily or solely gluten grains, that is

still under investigation. Also, I don't know yet how much

fermentation neutralized the issue, though I know that cooking/baking

does not neutralize it, thus I am not experimenting on my own body in

this regard. I stopped eating grains 3 years ago, and never looked

and felt better.

Best,

Boris

On Jan 13, 2011, at 5:51 AM, wrote:

> I would start by questioning the validity of the notion that milk

> causes bigger insulin releases than white bread. I'd like to see

> several well designed and conducted studies before I would take

> this as fact.

>

> Next I would say the juxtaposition is pretty irrelevant. Pastured

> raw milk is quite different than white bread in many, many ways. So

> if the milk spikes insulin more than white bread you're only

> considering one of many factors.

>

> Next I would say that spiking insulin in and of itself is not a

> problem. In fact, it's pretty much how the whole insulin system is

> suppose to work. I'm skeptical of the claim that repeated spikes in

> insulin causes insulin resistance. I think we don't really have a

> clear picture of all the factors that lead to insulin resistance.

> This is a complex issue that we are just beginning to understand.

>

> Cheers,

>

>

[Guest guest]

i felt the same way as well along the lines of would like to see more info,

etc. I like Marks aritcles and since he is very aware of TF/NT i wanted to see

if anyone on here had other info to add to it. He admits no clear evidence with

raw pastured milk, plus i kept thinking about this being based on holstein

instead of older breeds etc... But i still wanted some feedback as i have yet

to self learn on the insulin/diabetes issue. I am planning to at some point. If

anyone can refer an excellent laymens books on Diabetes, metabolic issues that

would be great.

Boris - I am there with you on the grains. I do still consume GFree ones once

and awhile that have been soaked for days etc. but for the most part i try to

avoid them.

>

> > I would start by questioning the validity of the notion that milk

> > causes bigger insulin releases than white bread. I'd like to see

> > several well designed and conducted studies before I would take

> > this as fact.

> >

> > Next I would say the juxtaposition is pretty irrelevant. Pastured

> > raw milk is quite different than white bread in many, many ways. So

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You have to look at Diabetes not an isolated issue, but just one

manifestation of the same issue. Which symptom (i.e. diabetes, or

asthma, cancer, etc.) a person gets may be greatly defined by the

individual genetics, though I believe like Hippocrates that there's

only one disease they all have in common: toxicity.

Thus, I recommend the following books:

“Dangerous Grains” by Braly M.D.:

http://www.amazon.com/Dangerous-Grains-Gluten-Cereal-Hazardous/dp/

1583331298/ref=sr_1_1?s=books & ie=UTF8 & qid=1295017596 & sr=1-1

" Good Calories, Bad Calories " by Taubes

http://www.amazon.com/Good-Calories-Bad-Controversial-Science/dp/

1400033462/ref=sr_1_1?s=books & ie=UTF8 & qid=1295023589 & sr=1-1

Best,

Boris

On Jan 14, 2011, at 5:34 AM, wrote:

> i felt the same way as well along the lines of would like to

> see more info, etc. I like Marks aritcles and since he is very

> aware of TF/NT i wanted to see if anyone on here had other info to

> add to it. He admits no clear evidence with raw pastured milk, plus

> i kept thinking about this being based on holstein instead of older

> breeds etc... But i still wanted some feedback as i have yet to

> self learn on the insulin/diabetes issue. I am planning to at some

> point. If anyone can refer an excellent laymens books on Diabetes,

> metabolic issues that would be great.

[Guest guest]

If that were true, diabetis would have been more prevalent in the past when more

grains were consumed, or it would be more prevalent in areas where people

consume more grains than elsewhere. I doubt that this is really the case.

>

> > I would start by questioning the validity of the notion that milk

> > causes bigger insulin releases than white bread. I'd like to see

> > several well designed and conducted studies before I would take

> > this as fact.

> >

> > Next I would say the juxtaposition is pretty irrelevant. Pastured

> > raw milk is quite different than white bread in many, many ways. So

> > if the milk spikes insulin more than white bread you're only

> > considering one of many factors.

> >

> > Next I would say that spiking insulin in and of itself is not a

> > problem. In fact, it's pretty much how the whole insulin system is

> > suppose to work. I'm skeptical of the claim that repeated spikes in

> > insulin causes insulin resistance. I think we don't really have a

> > clear picture of all the factors that lead to insulin resistance.

> > This is a complex issue that we are just beginning to understand.

> >

> > Cheers,

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

We never ate more grain than ever before in the civilization, and

government subsidies have fulfilled the Mayan's prophecy that we are

the " children of the corn " , indeed.

Doubting and speculating is not necessary. The Taubes book as

well as the Braly one are full of references to studies, and I

had recommended both books for the highest of sceptics. The

scientific evidence is quite overwhelming.

One could define diabetes as nothing but severe cereal grain

poisening. One could define cancer as sugar-addicts syndrome (sugar

meaning carbohydrates from all high glycemic food stuffs). Obesity is

carb-addicts syndrome as well. You don't get fat from fat.

Diabetes hardly existed in past generations. (Sidenote: The word

" diabetes " was even only coined a little over a hundred years ago, I

believe in the 1880s). Diabetes has now reached epidemic proportions

in the U.S.

Eating grains through all the seasons is asking for major trouble. It

just does not appear in nature 12 months of the year, and every grain

product is a processed product, usually highly processed. It's been

a while since I saw a bread bush or a pasta tree... actually, must've

been a different lifetime! ;-)

Take it with a grain of salt, but omit the carbs!!! But do more

research on it, i.e. look twice.

[Hey, I successfully resisted making a pun on your screename!]

Best,

Boris

On Jan 16, 2011, at 4:49 AM, do-not-reply@... wrote:

> Posted by: " doublethink03 "

> If that were true, diabetis would have been more prevalent in the

> past when more grains were consumed, or it would be more prevalent

> in areas where people consume more grains than elsewhere. I doubt

> that this is really the case.

[Guest guest]

Well, the mainstream of dietary advice does not agree with Taubes and other

low-carb gurus, and they also have studies to back it up. People never ate as

much fat as they do today vs. carbs. Most people most of the time didn't have

access to that much fat. Now we have easy access through 'healthy' vegetable

oils. Anyway, I'm not saying fat is unhealthy or anything. I'm just saying that

the claim that carbs cause diabetis is false. If carbs caused diabetis, how come

it is so prevalent now when people eat lots of fat and wasn't prevalent among

pre-colonized Pima Indians or rural Zulus or south-sea islanders or what have

you not.

If carbs cause diabetis, how come that people can fix their diabetis type 2 with

carbs? How come I fixed all my blood sugar issues by eating more carbs? How come

eating low carb actually increased my insulin resistance to the point where

looking at carbs made me hypoglycemic if eating low carb is better?

> Eating grains through all the seasons is asking for major trouble. It

> just does not appear in nature 12 months of the year, and every grain

> product is a processed product, usually highly processed. It's been

> a while since I saw a bread bush or a pasta tree... actually, must've

> been a different lifetime! ;-)

Granaries are a recent invention? I don't think so.

" every product is a processed product " - then an apple is a processed product

too. A skinned cow is also a processed product. If I cook up some rice or

buckwheat, how is that any more processed?

[Guest guest]

Boris,

We never ate more grain than ever before in the civilization, and

> government subsidies have fulfilled the Mayan's prophecy that we are

> the " children of the corn " , indeed.

>

> Doubting and speculating is not necessary. The Taubes book as

> well as the Braly one are full of references to studies, and I

> had recommended both books for the highest of sceptics. The

> scientific evidence is quite overwhelming.

>

Regarding the idea that grains/carbs cause disease? I didn't see anywhere in

Taubes book where he demonstrated proof of such a thesis. In fact just about

all his material on the issue shows otherwise, though his personal

recommendation/hypothesis at the conclusion of the book is at odds to where

the evidence takes you.

>

> One could define diabetes as nothing but severe cereal grain

> poisening. One could define cancer as sugar-addicts syndrome (sugar

> meaning carbohydrates from all high glycemic food stuffs).

>

One could, but one would most likely be wrong.

> Obesity is

> carb-addicts syndrome as well. You don't get fat from fat.

>

Or carbs apparently if we are to believe what read about the Kitavans,

Maasi, and good chunks of large parts of the **non**- " primitive " world

outside the west.

Come to think of it, carbs don't make you fat even if we only look at Taubes

research.

> Diabetes hardly existed in past generations. (Sidenote: The word

> " diabetes " was even only coined a little over a hundred years ago, I

> believe in the 1880s). Diabetes has now reached epidemic proportions

> in the U.S.

>

I have serious doubts about such a claim, but even so it does not follow

that diabetes is thus the result of carb/grain consumption.

>

> Eating grains through all the seasons is asking for major trouble. It

> just does not appear in nature 12 months of the year, and every grain

> product is a processed product, usually highly processed. It's been

> a while since I saw a bread bush or a pasta tree... actually, must've

> been a different lifetime! ;-)

>

I never saw a raw steak in nature either, let alone a cooked one. Or a

hamburger come to think of it. Or an animal sitting around just waiting to

be eaten **as is**. Manipulating our environment is what we do - sometimes

for the good and sometimes for the bad - but manipulatiing our enviroment

**per se** doesn't automatically lead to bad food.

> Take it with a grain of salt, but omit the carbs!!! But do more

> research on it, i.e. look twice.

> [Hey, I successfully resisted making a pun on your screename!]

>

>

Yeah if you do research you will find a number of carb eating - some quite

high - groups doing quite well. Not a disease of civilization anywhere in

sight.

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Nutrition and Physical Regeneration

http://nutrition-and-physical-regeneration.com/blog