Probiotics

[Guest guest]

Hi! Food?, I am not sure that the gut can be colonized. For example,

a baby is breast fed, that increases significant amounts of lactic

acid bacteria, then when the child is old enough, they drink milk,

another source of lactic acid bacteria, then as someone gets older,

they begin to consume products like cheese, sour cream, cottage

cheese, and also milk. Let's say the old ways of producing dairy

products changes, and now those sources of lactic acid bacteria

no longer contain any significant quantities, what happens?

It is something that use to be in our diet, but is it there

anymore? Could it explain an increase in illnesses, some people

seem to think just that. And it is not that probioitics don't

do any good, even if they cannot establish growth in the body,

as cleans up as they pass through the body, that is how it works.

Is there a way to supplement lactose with out casein? Sure,

but why? Lactulose is a sugar alcohol, a sweetener. Lactose

is a natural milk sugar, I think. Best, Carlton

foodint2002 wrote:

>

> I have read several sources that suggest in order for lactobacillus

> to colonise the gut, lactose(milk sugar) must be present in the diet.

> Obviously if one is on a dairy free diet, to avoid casein, this gets

> a bit tricky.

> Is there a way to supplement lactose with out casein? I know there is

> a prescription medication that contains lactUlose - does anyone know

> the difference between lactose and lactulose?

> Many thanks

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> My stupid question of the day.....

>

> Should probiotics be rotated so that yeast doesn't build a tolerance

to just one? Does it really matter?

I have heard that rotating probiotics is best.

> As far as GSE (graperuit seed extract)goes, I was going to rotate 3

days on 4 days off. Does this sound good, or should I wait longer

periods? I read something about GSE, and can't rememeber now what it

was.

Read my previous message, I gave specifics.

Dana

[Guest guest]

Hi

I'm not sure, but I do it with BioKult, Hylak, Culturelle and most recently

Custom Brand, he's looking good, poops are great, behaviour

improving............FWIW

Mandi in UK

> I am going to post this question again but rephrase it as I was very tired

> the other evening and now realize that the question was a bit ambiguous!

>

> Can you give two different types of probiotic together at the same time?

> For

> example, culturelle and probiogold? Or would they fight for space etc etc?

>

> Hope this is not a silly question but I am not very well up on the subject.

>

> Many thanks

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for that.

I was just curious because I don't want to waste money giving extra

probiotics if half of them are going to be disposed of through the system

when given with others. As long as they all colonize I would be happy to

give them together and more importantly it would solve my 'lack of time'

problem.

[Guest guest]

Rhonda, the best probiotic that we found was fermented kefir milk,

none of those capsulated proboscis ever worked for us. Now some

yogurts are good. What I look for is live bacteria that has been

added 'after' the milk has been pasteurized, not before. Even

unpasteurized soy sauce seemed to give my son another surge in

speech. Here is a good site to read more about the kefir milk.

http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html

Best, Carlton

rhonda m pineau wrote:

>

> Just a quick question: What is it we're looking for in a probiotic? Our

> GI spec recommended Culturelle (she said it had an ingredient, I forgot

> what it was but had a couple " G " 's in it) but instead we purchased Ultra

> Flora Plus DF by Metagenics. How do you compare them? Thanks,

> Rhonda

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>>> Just a quick question: What is it we're looking for in a

probiotic? Our GI spec recommended Culturelle (she said it had an

ingredient,

Culturelle is also known as Lactobacillus GG and it is a version of

Lactobacillus rhamnosus that has been extensively studied. It is

often recommended for 'traveler's diarrhea' or colon problems and

bacteria. It worked pretty well for my younger son's IBS and Mike

started taking it when he goes to Europe or South America. He said

he didn't feel zippy better, but he finally stopped getting sick

each time. He tells everyone in his office 'group' to take it for

traveling.

But you may also want to look at other strains. I rotate the

Culturelle with Florajen 3 from my pharmacists. It has 10 billion

CFU per capsule: acidophilus, bifidum, longum.

There is a file called the Probiotic Short Course in the Files

section. Below is the updated version.

.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The probiotic short course – The good guys

Providing a steady stream of probiotics – the beneficial micro-

organisms we need – is a wonderful and simple way to keep gastro-

intestinal bacteria, yeast, and other inhabitants in proper balance.

The major benefits of adding probiotic organisms to the diet are:

• boost to the immune system

• inhibition of disease-causing organisms

• improved digestion

• vitamin synthesis

• detoxification and protection from toxins

• prevention of diarrhea from various causes

• reduced risk of irritable bowel syndrome

• cancer-protective effects

• increased nutrient absorption

• improved resistance to allergies

• production of digestive enzymes

• maintainance of the proper pH

• reduction of problematic pathogens such as yeast,

bacteria, and other infections.

Probiotics provide other benefits, such as producing highly

favorable natural chemicals through fermentation. Scientific studies

over the last 50 years show that probiotic organisms can improve the

nutritional quality of foods, produce natural antibiotics,

anticarcinogens, and substances that break down and recycle toxins

for their human host (Linskens et al 2001). R. D. Rolfe summarized

and reviewed the role of probiotics in the beneficial control of

gastrointestinal health from 85 different scientific studies (Rolfe

2000).

Probiotics come in a smorgasbord of types and strains. You really

only need a couple of key good ones for core intestinal healing.

When deciding on which probiotics to use, choose an extensively

researched product or strain with a great deal of scientific support

behind it. The strains of probiotics known as Lactobacillus

acidophilus and Bifodobacterium bifidum are some of the most

important members of the gastrointestinal tract. Scientific studies

verify these strains are immensely effective in maintaining good gut

health. Lactobacillus acidophilus bacteria reside mostly in the

small intestine, and Bifidobacterium bifidum inhabit the large

intestine (colon). Many strains of Lactobacillus are available as

well as other probiotics. Each may contribute a little differently.

There is one strain of Lactobacillus called Lactobacillus GG. It is

sold in the United States as Culturelle. Lactobacillus GG is an

extensively and exceptionally well-researched strain. It shows

excellent results with improving the environment in the intestines.

Over 141 research studies on this strain are referenced at the

enzyme group website.

Mixed opinions prevail on whether taking a mixed-species product or

a single species is better. It probably depends on the nature of the

problem. You may decide to choose a single strain of friendly flora

because of the proven effectiveness of that particular probiotic

strain.

An example would be taking Lactobacillus for the small intestine, or

Bifobacterium to assist with colon problems. Taking this strain for

its specific properties can be very helpful. However, over an

extended period of time, you may want to include other strains just

for good measure.

Generally, you need higher, more therapeutic doses of probiotics

when first addressing gastrointestinal symptoms. Probiotic strength

is measured in CFUs (colony forming units) per capsule. For

therapeutic benefits, references vary widely from 250 million to 20

billion viable organisms per day. This may depend on the particular

strain, quality, and product brand. Some children with severe

gastrointestinal disorders have seen improvement taking from 30 to

60 billion CFUs daily. Check with your health practitioner, or you

can start slowly and build up to a level you feel is most

beneficial.

It is important to look for the manufacturing date stamped right on

the container. Probiotic products, especially Lactobacillus and

Bifidobacterium, lose a lot of potency after four to ten months.

Most products last longer when refrigerated, although some products

do not require refrigeration. Talk to others, especially other

parents and adults, about quality issues, and what works best in

particular situations.

When to take probiotics also varies by brand. Always check the label

and note the recommendation of the manufacturer for optimum

performance from that product. Some labels say to take on an empty

stomach, while some say to take with food so the food can buffer the

organisms. Some say to take in the morning because of stomach acid

content, whereas you can take others anytime. The acid and salts in

the gut may harm certain probiotics. Manufacturers take this into

account when designing a formulation and preparing the capsules.

Some capsules are specially coated so the microorganisms will safely

reach their destination, which may be at different spots in the

digestive tract.

Capsules are the preferred way to take probiotics. Capsules provide

more protection from contamination, oxygen, and moisture which helps

maintain organism integrity. Dairy products that contain added

organisms like Lactobacillus may provide a mild dose of probiotics.

A key benefit of probiotics is the fact that certain probiotics

secrete digestive enzymes, particularly proteases, lipases, and

lactase. Lactase is the enzyme needed to break down the milk sugar

lactose. Some of the benefits of the probiotics are probably due to

the improvements brought about by this increase in digestive enzymes

in the gut. Enzymes and probiotics work very well together. Enzymes

clean out the harmful things in the gut and the probiotics

repopulate the good microbes.

Testing for intestinal inhabitants

You can check for what is populating the neighborhood of your

intestines through a test called the Comprehensive Stool and

Digestive Analysis, available through most commercial laboratories.

Remember that these tests can be a good guide, but are not 100

percent conclusive. You may benefit from a good probiotic or yeast

treatment even if the tests suggest you do not need one. It may also

tell you about stomach acid production and pancreatic enzyme

insufficiency.

Enzymes and probiotics

At this time, the literature is inconclusive on whether to give

probiotics and enzymes together or separately. In the enzyme group,

the general recommendation (at this writing) is to give enzymes and

probiotics at separate times – enzymes at the beginning of the meal

and probiotics at the end of the meal or any other time that is at

least an hour apart from the enzymes. Although most enzymes do not

adversely affect most probiotics, a few parents commented that they

saw improvement by giving these two supplements separately. Some

product manu-facturers also recommend this. It most likely depends

on the products, formulation, and what is going on in a particular

person's gut.

Some enzyme formulations and some probiotic formulations may

interact more than others. Here are two possibilities.

1. Probiotics consist of a lot of protein, and proteases may

interact to some degree, or cause some breakdown.

2. Some enzymes may prevent the probiotics from achieving

the best attachment in the gut (and thereby inhibit

optimum colonization).

On the other hand, probiotics produce enzymes including proteases

and live quite well in the digestive tract naturally. So it is easy

to speculate that enzymes will not adversely affect these

probiotics. Certain probiotics may be susceptible in the small

intestine but not the colon, or in the colon and not the stomach.

You can also check with the manufacturers of both the probiotic and

the enzyme.

The take-home message is that if you give enzymes and probiotics

separately and see better results with that timing, go with that. If

you see better results by giving them together, then stick with that.

[Guest guest]

Hi , is their a brand of milk you can recommend that is prehaps sold at

health food shops

Cheers H

Re: probiotics

> Rhonda, the best probiotic that we found was fermented kefir milk,

> none of those capsulated proboscis ever worked for us. Now some

> yogurts are good. What I look for is live bacteria that has been

> added 'after' the milk has been pasteurized, not before. Even

> unpasteurized soy sauce seemed to give my son another surge in

> speech. Here is a good site to read more about the kefir milk.

> http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html

> Best, Carlton

>

> rhonda m pineau wrote:

> >

> > Just a quick question: What is it we're looking for in a probiotic?

Our

> > GI spec recommended Culturelle (she said it had an ingredient, I forgot

> > what it was but had a couple " G " 's in it) but instead we purchased Ultra

> > Flora Plus DF by Metagenics. How do you compare them? Thanks,

> > Rhonda

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

, There is Lifeway. www.kefir.com Best, Carlton

wrote:

>

> Hi , is their a brand of milk you can recommend that is prehaps sold at

> health food shops

> Cheers H

> Re: probiotics

>

> > Rhonda, the best probiotic that we found was fermented kefir milk,

> > none of those capsulated proboscis ever worked for us. Now some

> > yogurts are good. What I look for is live bacteria that has been

> > added 'after' the milk has been pasteurized, not before. Even

> > unpasteurized soy sauce seemed to give my son another surge in

> > speech. Here is a good site to read more about the kefir milk.

> > http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html

> > Best, Carlton

> >

> > rhonda m pineau wrote:

> > >

> > > Just a quick question: What is it we're looking for in a probiotic?

> Our

> > > GI spec recommended Culturelle (she said it had an ingredient, I forgot

> > > what it was but had a couple " G " 's in it) but instead we purchased Ultra

> > > Flora Plus DF by Metagenics. How do you compare them? Thanks,

> > > Rhonda

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Thank you, if her dr had explained it better I wouldn't have had to ask

here. Gotta love those doc's. Not. Now, one more question. A friend

suggested aloe vera to help with the leaky gut. I've never seen this

mentioned here. I thought aloe vera and probiotics might be a bit

overkill. Know anything about this? And lastly, the doc said zp wasn't

what Olivia needed but when I spoke to her again about enzymes she said

she'd write me a prescription for pancreatic enzymes if I wanted. Why

would this be? What's the difference if there is one? I understand that

the pancreas breaks down fat? Is that correct? Thank you again, I

appreciate everyone taking the time to answer our questions.

Rhonda

[Guest guest]

aloe vera depending on how processed it is is a strong laxative.

also kills yeast but i have found that the laxative effect is very

pronounced if you want to take it in any quantity.

pancreatic enzymes are enzymes derived fror pig pancreases and are

enteric coated and function in the intestine because they will

degrade in the high acid enviroment of the stomach.

they may work every bit as well as houstonni enzymes if there is no

leaky gut but the houstonni enzymes are desgined to break food

quickly down in the stomach so that

large food particles do not enter the blood through the stomach wall.

i ahve always worried about the disease possibilty from animal

emzymes since there is a limited amount of steralsing they can do

without degrading the enzymes. particularly all pigs have a form of

aids that supposdley does not cross over into humans and pancreatic

enzymes ahve been used for several decades for cystic fibrosous so

presumably if there was a problem it would have surfaced by now.

> Thank you, if her dr had explained it better I wouldn't have had to

ask

> here. Gotta love those doc's. Not. Now, one more question. A

friend

> suggested aloe vera to help with the leaky gut. I've never seen

this

> mentioned here. I thought aloe vera and probiotics might be a bit

> overkill. Know anything about this? And lastly, the doc said zp

wasn't

> what Olivia needed but when I spoke to her again about enzymes she

said

> she'd write me a prescription for pancreatic enzymes if I wanted.

Why

> would this be? What's the difference if there is one? I

understand that

> the pancreas breaks down fat? Is that correct? Thank you again, I

> appreciate everyone taking the time to answer our questions.

> Rhonda

[Guest guest]

Thanks, . So we'll forget the pancreatic enzymes and stick

w/Houston's. As for the aloe vera, you say depending on how processed it

is, can you elaborate a bit? I've heard something about a dr. Buie out

of Mass General who's doing the aloe along with enzymeaid w/DPPIV, have

you heard anything on this?

[Guest guest]

i wouldn't rule out pancreatic enzymes.

i think inner gel has less of the laxative efect, you can look at the

various brands and see what they say on the lable.

some brands go further and actually remove the compund causing the

laxative action i think.

> Thanks, . So we'll forget the pancreatic enzymes and stick

> w/Houston's. As for the aloe vera, you say depending on how

processed it

> is, can you elaborate a bit? I've heard something about a dr. Buie

out

> of Mass General who's doing the aloe along with enzymeaid w/DPPIV,

have

> you heard anything on this?

[Guest guest]

I believe lactulose is a sugar that is not absorbed by the body and

it stays in the digestive tract and holds moisture in the stool. My

son used to be on it, and I think it contributed to the imbalance of

gut flora! My guess is that it fed yeast!

W

--- In , " foodint2002 " <annabel@o...>

> Is there a way to supplement lactose with out casein? I know there

is

> a prescription medication that contains lactUlose - does anyone

know

> the difference between lactose and lactulose?

> Many thanks

[Guest guest]

Hi Geoff,

Here's the list of probiotics contained in the Grainfields product that my

family

take - from www.agmfoods.com - it's a pretty good product and they deliver

worldwide:

Lactobacillus: acidophilus, delbreukii, caseii, bulgaricus, causasicus,

fermenti,

plantarum, brevis, helveticus, leichmannii, lactis, bifidus (Bifidobacterium

bifidum); Saccharomyces boulardii, Saccharomyces cerevisiae.

Chris.

> 1. Bacillus Lichenformis

> 2. Bacillus Subtilis

> 3. Bifidobacteria Bifidum

> 4. Bifidobacteria Infantis

> 5. Bifidobacterium Longum

> 6. Enterococcus Faecium

> 7. Lactobacillus Acidophilus

> 8. Lactobacillus Brevis

> 9. Lactobacillus Bulgaricus

> 10. Lactobacillus Caseii

> 11. Lactobacillus Caucasicus

> 12. Lactobacillus Fermenti

> 13. Lactobacillus Helveticus

> 14. Lactobacillus Lactis

> 15. Lactobacillus Leichmannii

> 16. Lactobacillus Plantarum

> 17. Lactobacillus Plantarum

> 18. Lactobacillus Rhamnosus

> 19. Saccharomyces Boulardii

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your information. Very interested in Granifields product.

Which type do you recommend, powder or liquid?

Norio

and Chas Adlard wrote:

> Hi Geoff,

>

> Here's the list of probiotics contained in the Grainfields product that my

family

> take - from www.agmfoods.com - it's a pretty good product and they deliver

worldwide:

[Guest guest]

Hi Micky,

I used the same probiotic as you for quite awhile.

I have deicded to try Primal Defense as it has been raved about. Have

to say it is excellent.Feel much better with it.

Here is the website.

http://www.gardenoflifeusa.com/products/primaldefense.html

Marge

> Dear Group: searching for a bargain for my probiotics...anyone out

> there found a good website?...also, what is the average dose people

> are taking out there? I was on 4 Metagenics Ultra Flora capsules

at

> bedtime...thanks...good health, Micky

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " smeetypied " <mickydean@...>

> Dear Group: searching for a bargain for my probiotics

www.needs.com offers at least a 20% discount (sometimes more) for Metagenics

Ultra Flora Plus or Klaire's Culturelle.

Ethel

[Guest guest]

On Marge's advice I decided to try Primal Defense. (thanks Marge!) I

just wanted to warn others who may be thinking of trying this that

there is a possibility of a herx associated with the die off of

pathogens in the GI. I did not know this and was amazed when I woke

with one after I took my first tablet the night before. I hadn't had a

herx in almost two years (since starting AP).

I knew what it was right away and decided to hydrate and sleep my way

through it. I woke up this morning feeling like a much different

person. I had always suspected that my disease started in my GI...and

had seen more and more symptoms of an unhealthy intestinal tract of

late even though I was on probiotics and have worked to eliminate most

of the gluten and dairy in my diet.

In any case, I wanted to alert others before they started this

supplement to be prepared for some possible early reactions.

Peace,

deano

On Tuesday, June 3, 2003, at 02:55 PM, elfmarge wrote:

> Hi Micky,

> I used the same probiotic as you for quite awhile.

> I have deicded to try Primal Defense as it has been raved about. Have

> to say it is excellent.Feel much better with it.

>

> Here is the website.

> http://www.gardenoflifeusa.com/products/primaldefense.html

>

>

> Marge

[Guest guest]

Apparently, my education on my favorite subject was truly incomplete. Are

you suggesting that the probiotics, the good bacteria, are somehow acting

macrophage-like, and are killing off pathogens, resulting in a herx

reaction? This is an interesting concept. Or perhaps, I'm misconstruing,

and there is some other process occuring that I'm not grasping from your

description.

Jeff

----Original Message Follows----

From: Deano <deanzo@...>

" elfmarge " <Elfmarge@...>, rheumatic

Subject: Re: rheumatic Re: Probiotics

Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 05:23:49 -0500

On Marge's advice I decided to try Primal Defense. (thanks Marge!) I

just wanted to warn others who may be thinking of trying this that

there is a possibility of a herx associated with the die off of

pathogens in the GI. I did not know this and was amazed when I woke

with one after I took my first tablet the night before. I hadn't had a

herx in almost two years (since starting AP).

I knew what it was right away and decided to hydrate and sleep my way

through it. I woke up this morning feeling like a much different

person. I had always suspected that my disease started in my GI...and

had seen more and more symptoms of an unhealthy intestinal tract of

late even though I was on probiotics and have worked to eliminate most

of the gluten and dairy in my diet.

In any case, I wanted to alert others before they started this

supplement to be prepared for some possible early reactions.

Peace,

deano

On Tuesday, June 3, 2003, at 02:55 PM, elfmarge wrote:

> Hi Micky,

> I used the same probiotic as you for quite awhile.

> I have deicded to try Primal Defense as it has been raved about. Have

> to say it is excellent.Feel much better with it.

>

> Here is the website.

> http://www.gardenoflifeusa.com/products/primaldefense.html

>

>

> Marge

_________________________________________________________________

Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*

http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

[Guest guest]

Hi Deano,

I am on Primal Defense too and it can give you a herx. I think it is

really powerful to go after the yeast and gut problems. I too have gut

problems and I have combined PD with Living Multi's from the same

company. Together, these seem to be working well to get my gut back

under control and I feel so much better after a few weeks on them. My

gut is getting more " regular " now and I no longer have diarrhea problems

with this combination. Just be aware that there are some probiotics in

the Living Multi's too. Living Multi's are whole food vitamins, all

natural and no chemicals in them. I am working my way up slowly with

the Primal Defense because they are strong and you can herx. The max

dose is 15 a day. I started out just taking one a day like they

recommended and now I'm up to four a day. I only add one extra one a

week and only if I don't herx from it do I add another one. So you can

see that I've been on PD for a month now.

Anyone interested in these products can go to:

www.gardenoflifeusa.com

and read all about them and the doctor that developed them. It's an

amazing story. They can be either purchased through health food stores

that carry them or can be purchased through Garden Of Life or there are

other sites on the internet that carry them too. I just can't remember

the name of them at the moment. I get them at a store down here in the

Caymans but when I go up to the States soon, I will buy them on line up

there as they are much cheaper up there than down here and I don't save

any money buying them on line and shipping them down here.

Hope this helps.

Jeanette

Deano wrote:

>On Marge's advice I decided to try Primal Defense. (thanks Marge!) I

>just wanted to warn others who may be thinking of trying this that

>there is a possibility of a herx associated with the die off of

>pathogens in the GI. I did not know this and was amazed when I woke

>with one after I took my first tablet the night before. I hadn't had a

>herx in almost two years (since starting AP).

>

>I knew what it was right away and decided to hydrate and sleep my way

>through it. I woke up this morning feeling like a much different

>person. I had always suspected that my disease started in my GI...and

>had seen more and more symptoms of an unhealthy intestinal tract of

>late even though I was on probiotics and have worked to eliminate most

>of the gluten and dairy in my diet.

>

>In any case, I wanted to alert others before they started this

>supplement to be prepared for some possible early reactions.

>

>Peace,

>

>deano

>

>On Tuesday, June 3, 2003, at 02:55 PM, elfmarge wrote:

>

>

>

>>Hi Micky,

>>I used the same probiotic as you for quite awhile.

>>I have deicded to try Primal Defense as it has been raved about. Have

>>to say it is excellent.Feel much better with it.

>>

>>Here is the website.

>>http://www.gardenoflifeusa.com/products/primaldefense.html

>>

>>

>>Marge

>>

>>

>

>

>

>To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Deano,

I experienced the same thing when i began. I thought I was allergic at first.

I am staying at 1 pill now 3 weeks as when I raise it to 2 a day whew!

You are so right. I have used good probiotics for yrs and this is blowing

them away.

Marge

Marge

[Guest guest]

The bottle and literature on the website say that an added benefit of

the product is that it does not require refrigeration, so you can take

it with you anywhere, even on trips. Yay!

Deano

On Sunday, June 8, 2003, at 12:44 PM, rb09322@... wrote:

> Does anyone know if this primal defense product needs to be

> refrigerated? My

> doctor refrigerates it and the health food store does not. I didn't

> buy it at

> the health food store since I wasn't sure of the effect of no

> refrigeration.

> Roni

[Guest guest]

HI

I would postulate that the once daily dosing of GSE is helping but not

getting rid of

it, maybe he's even rebounding with the growth in between doses. The

probiotocs could then be causing die off, or maybe he doesn;t tolerate the

probiotic.

I expereimented a couple of weeks ago instead of giving 2 drops GSE twice a

day, I did 1 drop 4 times a day (with NF and Pep), probiotics at night, and

Candex (yeast eating enzyme) with a night time chelation dose. Worked well

I know its very hard to see your child so spacey and you have to careful

about whether he is tolerating the probiotic but I don;t ever feel I'm getting

anywhere with treating yeast if I don;t get some behavioural reaction from Sam.

BUt thats 3 years experience of fighting the little beasties. IF you run with

trying more probotic be sure you are giving it away from the GSE so you get the

best bang.

I have trouble trying to find a space without enzymes or GSE/Biocidin to get

probiotics in but chelation round is easier, I can give with nighttime doses.

Good luck

e

> My son always has a problem with yeast, and he does well just on 1 drop of

> Grapefruit seed extract a day. I was told by Dana and our holistic dr. that

>

> probably needs more than 1 dose of probiotic a day. Whenever I give

> more

> than one dose, he acts spacey, stimmy and unfocused.

>

> My dr. said that this may be die off and should keep trying for several

> days.

> What do you all think? I told him that it's very scary to see my child

> change that much.

>

[Guest guest]

> probably needs more than 1 dose of probiotic a day. Whenever

I give more

> than one dose, he acts spacey, stimmy and unfocused.

Consider trying a different type of probiotic.

>

> My dr. said that this may be die off and should keep trying for

several days.

> What do you all think? I told him that it's very scary to see my

child

> change that much.

I would try a different type of probiotic and see if it might be an

intolerance to the probiotic. Or the probiotic you use might be

feeding certain types of yeast/bacteria. Or he might not tolerate any

probiotics, which is the problem I have with my kids.

If it *is* die off, you can try giving activated charcoal, that might

help.

Dana

[Guest guest]

I agree it is scary, but it is most likely die-off. I'm lucky in that our

systems are so similar, I try things on myself first, just to see what ph is

experiencing. Probiotics

Dana and , and others:

My son always has a problem with yeast, and he does well just on 1 drop of

Grapefruit seed extract a day. I was told by Dana and our holistic dr. that

probably needs more than 1 dose of probiotic a day. Whenever I give

more

than one dose, he acts spacey, stimmy and unfocused.

My dr. said that this may be die off and should keep trying for several days.

What do you all think? I told him that it's very scary to see my child

change that much.

Please feel free to give any advice or experience in this area.

Liz N.