Re: CCSVI and jumping exercise.

October 10, 2011

The issue of CCSVI is the narrowing or blockage of veins through which blood

should leave the head and take the iron etc with it, but due to these

narrowings/blockages, cannot drain. Jumping up and down will not open these

narrowings and the bad blood will not drain because of it either.

Whilst I know that inclined bed therapy works for people, it is an entirely

different thing to CCSVI and the procedure which fixes the situaton.

'What we do in life, echoes through eternity.'

MARCUS AURELIUS (121 - 180 A.D.)

To: mscured

From: wrotek@...

Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 22:17:11 +0200

Subject: CCSVI and jumping exercise.

What do You think about jumping up and down to help drain blood from the

brain if ccsvi is a problem ?

NASA was interested how gravity plays part in human blood circulation also.

I understand many people are in the wheelchairs or cant do this type of

exercise.

October 10, 2011

Well there is this pressure like feeling while jumping.

Also, in NASA and pilot training, they use rotating machine exercise to

test centrifugal force on pilots.

If the force is too big, blood drains from the head and pilot looses

consciousness.

W dniu 2011-10-10 22:30, pisze:

>

> The issue of CCSVI is the narrowing or blockage of veins through which

> blood should leave the head and take the iron etc with it, but due to

> these narrowings/blockages, cannot drain. Jumping up and down will not

> open these narrowings and the bad blood will not drain because of it

> either.

> Whilst I know that inclined bed therapy works for people, it is an

> entirely different thing to CCSVI and the procedure which fixes the

> situaton.

> 'What we do in life, echoes through eternity.'

> MARCUS AURELIUS (121 - 180 A.D.)

>

> To: mscured <mailto:mscured%40yahoogroups.com>

> From: wrotek@... <mailto:wrotek%40poczta.fm>

> Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 22:17:11 +0200

> Subject: CCSVI and jumping exercise.

>

> What do You think about jumping up and down to help drain blood from the

>

> brain if ccsvi is a problem ?

>

> NASA was interested how gravity plays part in human blood circulation

> also.

>

> I understand many people are in the wheelchairs or cant do this type of

>

> exercise.

>

October 10, 2011

That's all great, but the fact remains that the narrowed veins won't allow the

bad blood out no matter how high or hard you jump. Losing consciousness has

nothing to do with CCSVI and doesn't change the fact that the blood cannot flow

out as it should. Centrifugal force still will not get blood out as 'normal'

because the veins' flows are impeded by stenosis/narrowing. Trust me, it is

completely different as stenosis will always inhibit flow and the emptying of

the bad blood until the stenosis or blockages are removed.I can send you some

information on CCSVI if it would help explain the condition more clearly and

directly for you - I don't think I'm explaining it properly.

'What we do in life, echoes through eternity.'

MARCUS AURELIUS (121 - 180 A.D.)

To: mscured

From: wrotek@...

Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 00:52:01 +0200

Subject: Re: CCSVI and jumping exercise.

Well there is this pressure like feeling while jumping.

Also, in NASA and pilot training, they use rotating machine exercise to

test centrifugal force on pilots.

If the force is too big, blood drains from the head and pilot looses

consciousness.

October 11, 2011

Maybe the force from the exercise could help reopen veins slowly....

W dniu 2011-10-11 01:03, pisze:

>

> That's all great, but the fact remains that the narrowed veins won't

> allow the bad blood out no matter how high or hard you jump. Losing

> consciousness has nothing to do with CCSVI and doesn't change the fact

> that the blood cannot flow out as it should. Centrifugal force still

> will not get blood out as 'normal' because the veins' flows are

> impeded by stenosis/narrowing. Trust me, it is completely different as

> stenosis will always inhibit flow and the emptying of the bad blood

> until the stenosis or blockages are removed.I can send you some

> information on CCSVI if it would help explain the condition more

> clearly and directly for you - I don't think I'm explaining it

> properly.

>

> 'What we do in life, echoes through eternity.'

> MARCUS AURELIUS (121 - 180 A.D.)

>

> To: mscured <mailto:mscured%40yahoogroups.com>

> From: wrotek@... <mailto:wrotek%40poczta.fm>

> Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 00:52:01 +0200

> Subject: Re: CCSVI and jumping exercise.

>

> Well there is this pressure like feeling while jumping.

>

> Also, in NASA and pilot training, they use rotating machine exercise to

>

> test centrifugal force on pilots.

>

> If the force is too big, blood drains from the head and pilot looses

>

> consciousness.

>

October 11, 2011

That's pretty doubtful Wrotek.

'What we do in life, echoes through eternity.'

MARCUS AURELIUS (121 - 180 A.D.)

To: mscured

From: wrotek@...

Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 11:28:17 +0200

Subject: Re: CCSVI and jumping exercise.

Maybe the force from the exercise could help reopen veins slowly....

October 11, 2011

If the inclined bed can help some then jumping enforces much greater force.

W dniu 2011-10-11 11:38, pisze:

>

> That's pretty doubtful Wrotek.

>

> 'What we do in life, echoes through eternity.'

> MARCUS AURELIUS (121 - 180 A.D.)

>

> To: mscured <mailto:mscured%40yahoogroups.com>

> From: wrotek@... <mailto:wrotek%40poczta.fm>

> Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 11:28:17 +0200

> Subject: Re: CCSVI and jumping exercise.

>

> Maybe the force from the exercise could help reopen veins slowly....

>

October 11, 2011

If the veins have a kink in them or are twisted and not formed correctly, no

amount of jumping up and down will let the blood flow through them until they

have been ballooned straight. If you try and force water through a hose-pipe

with a kink in it or one that is twisted, no amount of shaking will get it to

flow freely. OK you might get little spurts of water but no more. However,

once corrected through angioplasty, jumping, drinking lots of water and eating a

healthy diet will help to prevent restenosis the same as if you make sure you

put lots of water through the hose often to keep it in its new position.Janet

To: mscured

From: wrotek@...

Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 11:28:17 +0200

Subject: Re: CCSVI and jumping exercise.

Maybe the force from the exercise could help reopen veins slowly....

October 11, 2011

There's just so much more to it Wrotek. Inclined Bed Therapy helps everyone, not

just specifically those who've been diagnosed with 'MS' or CCSVI as the theory

is that humans shouldn't spend so much time lying flat as the body has to work

so much harder to move the blood. It's tougher with CCSVI for many reasons - and

that's what CCSVI is all about. Stenosis cannot be overcome by jumping up and

down. I realise now that you perhaps don't understand what CCSVI is all about

and how it all works, so I'm going to back out of this as we simply disagree and

I believe you are just plain old wrong. I don't wish to continue taking up the

group's time with two people pointlessly saying the same thing over and over

trying to win an argument.

'What we do in life, echoes through eternity.'

MARCUS AURELIUS (121 - 180 A.D.)

To: mscured

From: wrotek@...

Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 13:28:29 +0200

Subject: Re: CCSVI and jumping exercise.

If the inclined bed can help some then jumping enforces much greater

force.

October 11, 2011

I did not think of that, twisted vein... Interesting.. But the kink

existence depends also on plasticity of the hose. If it is hard

material, it will be difficult to make it straight again. But if it is

elastic enough, perhaps it will be possible.

W dniu 2011-10-11 13:35, Janet Orchard pisze:

>

> If the veins have a kink in them or are twisted and not formed

> correctly, no amount of jumping up and down will let the blood flow

> through them until they have been ballooned straight. If you try and

> force water through a hose-pipe with a kink in it or one that is

> twisted, no amount of shaking will get it to flow freely. OK you might

> get little spurts of water but no more. However, once corrected

> through angioplasty, jumping, drinking lots of water and eating a

> healthy diet will help to prevent restenosis the same as if you make

> sure you put lots of water through the hose often to keep it in its

> new position.Janet

> To: mscured <mailto:mscured%40yahoogroups.com>

> From: wrotek@... <mailto:wrotek%40poczta.fm>

> Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 11:28:17 +0200

> Subject: Re: CCSVI and jumping exercise.

>

> Maybe the force from the exercise could help reopen veins slowly....

>

October 11, 2011

I dont know if it will help, it is just an idea. We wont know until

someone tries it.

W dniu 2011-10-11 13:40, pisze:

>

> There's just so much more to it Wrotek. Inclined Bed Therapy helps

> everyone, not just specifically those who've been diagnosed with 'MS'

> or CCSVI as the theory is that humans shouldn't spend so much time

> lying flat as the body has to work so much harder to move the blood.

> It's tougher with CCSVI for many reasons - and that's what CCSVI is

> all about. Stenosis cannot be overcome by jumping up and down. I

> realise now that you perhaps don't understand what CCSVI is all about

> and how it all works, so I'm going to back out of this as we simply

> disagree and I believe you are just plain old wrong. I don't wish to

> continue taking up the group's time with two people pointlessly saying

> the same thing over and over trying to win an argument.

>

> 'What we do in life, echoes through eternity.'

> MARCUS AURELIUS (121 - 180 A.D.)

>

> To: mscured <mailto:mscured%40yahoogroups.com>

> From: wrotek@... <mailto:wrotek%40poczta.fm>

> Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 13:28:29 +0200

> Subject: Re: CCSVI and jumping exercise.

>

> If the inclined bed can help some then jumping enforces much greater

> force.

>

October 11, 2011

Wrotek, my offer to help you learn about CCSVI still stands. Your reply to Janet

shows that you don't have a full or complete grasp on the subject and do not

understand what CCSVI is all about.I'll send the info through to you so you

better understand it - jumping up and down will never fix CCSVI - that remains a

fact.

'What we do in life, echoes through eternity.'

MARCUS AURELIUS (121 - 180 A.D.)

To: mscured

From: wrotek@...

Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 13:53:40 +0200

Subject: Re: CCSVI and jumping exercise.

I dont know if it will help, it is just an idea. We wont know until

someone tries it.

October 11, 2011

You have already sent me your papers once. thanks.

W dniu 2011-10-11 13:59, pisze:

>

> Wrotek, my offer to help you learn about CCSVI still stands. Your

> reply to Janet shows that you don't have a full or complete grasp on

> the subject and do not understand what CCSVI is all about.I'll send

> the info through to you so you better understand it - jumping up and

> down will never fix CCSVI - that remains a fact.

>

> 'What we do in life, echoes through eternity.'

> MARCUS AURELIUS (121 - 180 A.D.)

>

> To: mscured <mailto:mscured%40yahoogroups.com>

> From: wrotek@... <mailto:wrotek%40poczta.fm>

> Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 13:53:40 +0200

> Subject: Re: CCSVI and jumping exercise.

>

> I dont know if it will help, it is just an idea. We wont know until

>

> someone tries it.

>

October 11, 2011

You're quite correct.You should perhaps read them though and watch/listen to the

videos too as only then will you understand what CCSVI is really all about. It's

truly not as simple as forcing the blood out. If it were that easy, we wouldn't

have spent so much time, energy and money on getting the CCSVI procedure allowed

and 'accepted' within Medical circles.As I can confirm having had the procedure

myself, it was the best and most worthwhile expense I have ever been happy to be

charged for. Have you had success with your Lyme treatments? I remeber that you

were beginning them or just recommending them when you were last posting here.

Honestly Wrotek, read, understand and watch what I have again sent through to

you and you will see and 'get' why gettin through CCSVI is not about jumping up

and down.

'What we do in life, echoes through eternity.'

MARCUS AURELIUS (121 - 180 A.D.)

To: mscured

From: wrotek@...

Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:17:43 +0200

Subject: Re: CCSVI and jumping exercise.

You have already sent me your papers once. thanks.

October 11, 2011

So, what is so difficult about CCSVI that You think people cant understand ?

I have seen most of these materials u sent me.

W dniu 2011-10-11 14:50, pisze:

>

> You're quite correct.You should perhaps read them though and

> watch/listen to the videos too as only then will you understand what

> CCSVI is really all about. It's truly not as simple as forcing the

> blood out. If it were that easy, we wouldn't have spent so much time,

> energy and money on getting the CCSVI procedure allowed and 'accepted'

> within Medical circles.As I can confirm having had the procedure

> myself, it was the best and most worthwhile expense I have ever been

> happy to be charged for. Have you had success with your Lyme

> treatments? I remeber that you were beginning them or just

> recommending them when you were last posting here. Honestly Wrotek,

> read, understand and watch what I have again sent through to you and

> you will see and 'get' why gettin through CCSVI is not about jumping

> up and down.

>

> 'What we do in life, echoes through eternity.'

> MARCUS AURELIUS (121 - 180 A.D.)

>

> To: mscured <mailto:mscured%40yahoogroups.com>

> From: wrotek@... <mailto:wrotek%40poczta.fm>

> Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:17:43 +0200

> Subject: Re: CCSVI and jumping exercise.

>

> You have already sent me your papers once. thanks.

>

October 11, 2011

lol what is it that you don't understand wrotek?Everyone else does. You seem to

be missing the fact that CCSVI is about bloodflow and that without flow due to

the stenosis, the flow will not happen. Jumping up and down will not fix this.I

suggest again that you actually take on board the information that you're

missing or not getting.Jumping up and down will not fix CCSVI.

'What we do in life, echoes through eternity.'

MARCUS AURELIUS (121 - 180 A.D.)

To: mscured

From: wrotek@...

Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 15:29:32 +0200

Subject: Re: CCSVI and jumping exercise.

So, what is so difficult about CCSVI that You think people cant understand

?

I have seen most of these materials u sent me.

October 11, 2011

The only thing i don't understand is why, and what, You think I don't

understand (^^,) lol

I know CCSVI is about blocked veins. What is your point ?

Is there something specific in your papers that says against this type

of exercise ?

W dniu 2011-10-11 16:24, pisze:

>

> lol what is it that you don't understand wrotek?Everyone else does.

> You seem to be missing the fact that CCSVI is about bloodflow and that

> without flow due to the stenosis, the flow will not happen. Jumping up

> and down will not fix this.I suggest again that you actually take on

> board the information that you're missing or not getting.Jumping up

> and down will not fix CCSVI.

>

> 'What we do in life, echoes through eternity.'

> MARCUS AURELIUS (121 - 180 A.D.)

>

> To: mscured <mailto:mscured%40yahoogroups.com>

> From: wrotek@... <mailto:wrotek%40poczta.fm>

> Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 15:29:32 +0200

> Subject: Re: CCSVI and jumping exercise.

>

> So, what is so difficult about CCSVI that You think people cant

> understand ?

>

> I have seen most of these materials u sent me.

>

October 11, 2011

I haven't paid lots of attention to all the flack going on here,Â however you

need to realize the arguments against exercise and kinked vessels doesn't hold

water.

Jumping up and down increases blood flow by increasing the heart rate even

through kinked blood vessels.Â It is due to the increased force of the blood as

indicated by the heart rate. It wouldn't work if the pluming is totally kinked

so no movement is going through, but then if it was the blood vessel would

eventually die (I believe that is what happens from physiology class, it needs

blood flow to feed the vessel.)Â It is also possible from the vessel to create

new blood vessels.Â It is our body's way of maintaining HOMEOSTASIS.Â There

are certain supplements which help that to happen.

When one has a clogged artery around the heart, over time the body will make new

smaller blood vessels trying to compensate for the decreased blood flow. Â Â It

is not able to compensate as well often in heart disease due to poor diet

choices.Â However it does add to the life span of the individual a bit due to

increased perfusion. Usually.Â See again physiology books.Â

Â I use a bellicon rebounder for 25 min.Â Other times I do it off and on during

the day.Â Mental clarity and ability to move, balance, feel the floor, etc is

much improved afterwards.

As long as the kink is not so severely kinked that no blood flow is moving.Â

Try experimenting with a garden hose. As you turn up the water pressure in a

kink a certain amount of water will flow depending on the angle of the kink.Â

Our body operates in a similar manner according to a physiology doctor.Â

Rebounding will also move the lymph fluid which is not influenced by the heart

movement.

Subject: RE: CCSVI and jumping exercise.

To: " MSCured " <mscured >

Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 2:24 PM

Â

lol what is it that you don't understand wrotek?Everyone else does. You seem to

be missing the fact that CCSVI is about bloodflow and that without flow due to

the stenosis, the flow will not happen. Jumping up and down will not fix this.I

suggest again that you actually take on board the information that you're

missing or not getting.Jumping up and down will not fix CCSVI.

'What we do in life, echoes through eternity.'

MARCUS AURELIUS (121 - 180 A.D.)

To: mscured

From: wrotek@...

Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 15:29:32 +0200

Subject: Re: CCSVI and jumping exercise.

So, what is so difficult about CCSVI that You think people cant understand ?

I have seen most of these materials u sent me.

October 11, 2011

.....and then one must take into account the malformed veins and valves whih are

a big part of being diagnosed with CCSVI.Bottom line guys, jumping up and down

wll NOT fix a CCSVI problem - I'm sorry guys, I so want to agree with everyone

so that I'm not once again coming across as a trouble-maker, but when one

understands stenosis, malformed veins/valves and the blockages involved in the

whole CCSVI 'thing', you can't agree with the proposal of 'let's try jumping up

and down because inclined bed therapy works'.I mean no trouble by my disagreeing

and am merely trying to enue that no one is misled into thinking that

supplements, blood thinners and 'jumping up and down' will solve the problem,

because with the best will in the world, it won't.Things can aid bloodflow but

they will not solve the problem of malformations and stenosis which is what

CCSVI is all about.

'What we do in life, echoes through eternity.'

MARCUS AURELIUS (121 - 180 A.D.)

To: mscured

From: yourbeamofsunshine@...

Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 11:32:22 -0700

Subject: RE: CCSVI and jumping exercise.

There are plenty of supplements that cause vasodillation. Rebounding will

not cause vasodillation, but it will increase the cario output which will

increase the blood flow through the area.

October 19, 2011

Why rebounding could be beneficial

http://www.healingdaily.com/exercise/rebounding-for-detoxification-and-health.ht\

m

" The mini-trampoline subjects the body to gravitational pulls ranging

from zero at the top of each bounce to 2 - 3 times the force of gravity

at the bottom, "

dniu 2011-10-12 00:08, pisze:

>

> ....and then one must take into account the malformed veins and valves

> whih are a big part of being diagnosed with CCSVI.Bottom line guys,

> jumping up and down wll NOT fix a CCSVI problem - I'm sorry guys, I so

> want to agree with everyone so that I'm not once again coming across

> as a trouble-maker, but when one understands stenosis, malformed

> veins/valves and the blockages involved in the whole CCSVI 'thing',

> you can't agree with the proposal of 'let's try jumping up and down

> because inclined bed therapy works'.I mean no trouble by my

> disagreeing and am merely trying to enue that no one is misled into

> thinking that supplements, blood thinners and 'jumping up and down'

> will solve the problem, because with the best will in the world, it

> won't.Things can aid bloodflow but they will not solve the problem of

> malformations and stenosis which is what CCSVI is all about.

>

> 'What we do in life, echoes through eternity.'

> MARCUS AURELIUS (121 - 180 A.D.)

>

> To: mscured <mailto:mscured%40yahoogroups.com>

> From: yourbeamofsunshine@... <mailto:yourbeamofsunshine%40yahoo.com>

> Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 11:32:22 -0700

> Subject: RE: CCSVI and jumping exercise.

>

> There are plenty of supplements that cause vasodillation. Rebounding

> will not cause vasodillation, but it will increase the cario output

> which will increase the blood flow through the area.

>

October 19, 2011

Oh dear......you still aren't understanding that mangled, twisted, hugely

narrowed and comprimised veins CANNOT be fixed or helped by jumping up and down

- not on a trampoline, not on raised floors and not even on flat ground.To fix

the problem, you must have the procedure done - end of story. Your ideas of

'rebounding' might help the factors which the article is about (namely

detoxification, lymphatic fluids' movement and blood movement for 'normal' folk

with 'normal' veins).

'What we do in life, echoes through eternity.'

MARCUS AURELIUS (121 - 180 A.D.)

To: mscured

From: wrotek@...

Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 10:15:02 +0200

Subject: Re: CCSVI and jumping exercise.

Why rebounding could be beneficial

http://www.healingdaily.com/exercise/rebounding-for-detoxification-and-health.ht\

m

" The mini-trampoline subjects the body to gravitational pulls ranging

from zero at the top of each bounce to 2 - 3 times the force of gravity

at the bottom, "

dniu 2011-10-12 00:08, pisze:

>

> ....and then one must take into account the malformed veins and valves

> whih are a big part of being diagnosed with CCSVI.Bottom line guys,

> jumping up and down wll NOT fix a CCSVI problem

October 19, 2011

Maybe it can't

But I find the argument " because it simply won't work " insufficient.

W dniu 2011-10-19 11:55, pisze:

>

> Oh dear......you still aren't understanding that mangled, twisted,

> hugely narrowed and comprimised veins CANNOT be fixed or helped by

> jumping up and down - not on a trampoline, not on raised floors and

> not even on flat ground.To fix the problem, you must have the

> procedure done - end of story. Your ideas of 'rebounding' might help

> the factors which the article is about (namely detoxification,

> lymphatic fluids' movement and blood movement for 'normal' folk with

> 'normal' veins).

>

> 'What we do in life, echoes through eternity.'

> MARCUS AURELIUS (121 - 180 A.D.)

>

> To: mscured <mailto:mscured%40yahoogroups.com>

> From: wrotek@... <mailto:wrotek%40poczta.fm>

> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 10:15:02 +0200

> Subject: Re: CCSVI and jumping exercise.

>

> Why rebounding could be beneficial

>

http://www.healingdaily.com/exercise/rebounding-for-detoxification-and-health.ht\

m

>

> " The mini-trampoline subjects the body to gravitational pulls ranging

>

> from zero at the top of each bounce to 2 - 3 times the force of gravity

>

> at the bottom, "

>

> dniu 2011-10-12 00:08, pisze:

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > ....and then one must take into account the malformed veins and valves

>

> > whih are a big part of being diagnosed with CCSVI.Bottom line guys,

>

> > jumping up and down wll NOT fix a CCSVI problem

>

October 19, 2011

lolhow else would you pefer me to put it? As I said, the article you posted,

whilst interesting and informative, really doesn't relate to your argument as it

can in no way aid stenosed, malformed or faulty veins. Honestly, it will not fix

the problem of CCSVI. I'm trying to help you understand it all but I don't know

which part I'm obviously failing to express correctly for you to 'get it'.Help

me out.....please. :)How would you propose it all worked - as in, how do you

really popose that jumping up and down would untwist the way a mlformed vein is

or separate the sides of a vein which has pretty much sealed because of

stenosis? Jumping up and down will not untangle a knotted hosepipe - untangling

it or blasting a HUGE and very fast burst of fluid through it might (as long as

it hasn't sealed twisted through melting or heat and time) but with a badly made

pipe, which is malformed, narrowed etc etc, nothing will fix it....especially

not jumping up and down, not even on a trampoline.Now, we're ultimately talking

about veins inside the human body and so there is a big difference between what

you can and can't do with them as opposed to a free-standing item like a plastic

hose, but I hope this analogy has helped you understand that jumping up and down

won't help detangle or unseal stenosed and malformed veins....OR hoses.

'What we do in life, echoes through eternity.'

MARCUS AURELIUS (121 - 180 A.D.)

To: mscured

From: wrotek@...

Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 12:15:38 +0200

Subject: Re: CCSVI and jumping exercise.

Maybe it can't

But I find the argument " because it simply won't work " insufficient.

October 19, 2011

I totally agree with .

However, once CCSVI treatment has been performed, rebounding will help the new

blood flow. It is a pretty useless exercise before treatment regarding blood

flow but it does help lymph drainage.I jump up and down holding the edge of the

swimming pool. It feels good to be able to jump never mind what it is helping.

Since angio treatment a year ago I am amazed that I am still seeing little

changes for the better.Janet

To: mscured

From: rachael.m.thomas@...

Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 22:19:09 +1030