Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 Hi Gang, My teeth are in terrible shape and have been for years and not for lack of care and professional attention. This might have to do with the acid or low, ph of our mouths. I have heard that with a higher the ph the less likey we have of getting cavities. But is that our problem? I don't have a much of problem with cavities; the teeth are just very fragile. This situation could be caused by a yet to be named infection. Who knows. But it is another problem we seem to have in common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 Hi all, My teeth and my daughter's are not so good. We share a dentist and he is always trying to tell us the state of our teeth is from lack of brushing and sugar in the diet...and that's it! But last time i was in there, i mentioned to him that it seemed the Graves' group, in general had bad teeth, too. He scoffed and will not hear of it. According to him there is nothing else that can explain it but poor dental care (hygiene and diet)...I think he is wrong. > Hi Gang, My teeth are in terrible shape and have been for years and not > for lack of care and professional attention. This might have to do with > the acid or low, ph of our mouths. I have heard that with a higher the > ph the less likey we have of getting cavities. But is that our problem? > I don't have a much of problem with cavities; the teeth are just very > fragile. This situation could be caused by a yet to be named infection. > Who knows. But it is another problem we seem to have in common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 Hi ...I personally think he( your dentist) couldn't be more wrong..I had thought it had a lot to do with genetics....my teeth are so much worse than my husband's and I am so careful to take good care of them...and he all but neglects his...he is also a mouth breather which is supposed to make him more prone to decay, but he hasn't had anything done in 30 years and his teeth are like rocks. My oldest son...who neglects his teeth too...has the same rock solid teeth..whereas my younger son and daughter have my soft teeth. Sounds like GD and bad teeth are linked somehow. Ruthie Re: Teeth > Hi all, > My teeth and my daughter's are not so good. We share a dentist and > he is always trying to tell us the state of our teeth is from lack of > brushing and sugar in the diet...and that's it! But last time i was > in there, i mentioned to him that it seemed the Graves' group, in > general had bad teeth, too. He scoffed and will not hear of it. > According to him there is nothing else that can explain it but poor > dental care (hygiene and diet)...I think he is wrong. > > > > > Hi Gang, My teeth are in terrible shape and have been for years and > not > > for lack of care and professional attention. This might have to do > with > > the acid or low, ph of our mouths. I have heard that with a higher > the > > ph the less likey we have of getting cavities. But is that our > problem? > > I don't have a much of problem with cavities; the teeth are just > very > > fragile. This situation could be caused by a yet to be named > infection. > > Who knows. But it is another problem we seem to have in common. > > > > ------------------------------------- > The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace expert medical care. > Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments. > ---------------------------------------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 Ruthie, Guess you'll be watching your younger son and daughter pretty closely for Graves' symptoms, given their teeth. I hope they don't have it, of course! I think if it isn't found by the 30s and someone has it, they start to exhibit big mental problems: rage, panic, anxiety...At least that seems to be the way in my family and I think I have it, at least one brother and my only child. Best of luck raising your babies! I hope they are alright. F > > > Hi Gang, My teeth are in terrible shape and have been for years and > > not > > > for lack of care and professional attention. This might have to do > > with > > > the acid or low, ph of our mouths. I have heard that with a higher > > the > > > ph the less likey we have of getting cavities. But is that our > > problem? > > > I don't have a much of problem with cavities; the teeth are just > > very > > > fragile. This situation could be caused by a yet to be named > > infection. > > > Who knows. But it is another problem we seem to have in common. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------- > > The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not > intended to replace expert medical care. > > Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments. > > ---------------------------------------- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 add me to the yuckie teeth list. i never had many problems until after i had tiffany(15) which is when they think i developed GD. hhhhhmmmm i thought it was having trent and tiff 16 mo. apart, but now, maybe it was the geaves. my teeth started cracking and breaking, it's awful. luckily it's not in the front. if i could afford the 2200+ for dentures, i would jump at the chance. my hubby, who never pays attention to his teeth, has no problem, but i, the one who cares for my teeth, has broken bits all over. at least now i know i am not alone. donna --- Hearn wrote: > Hi Gang, My teeth are in terrible shape and have > been for years and not > for lack of care and professional attention. This > might have to do with > the acid or low, ph of our mouths. I have heard that > with a higher the > ph the less likey we have of getting cavities. But > is that our problem? > I don't have a much of problem with cavities; the > teeth are just very > fragile. This situation could be caused by a yet to > be named infection. > Who knows. But it is another problem we seem to have > in common. > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 same here, I had to have dentures 6 yrs ago, when I was only 35. teeth cracking and breaking off for no apparent reason. hmmmm? But from what I have read on the net, there were alot of symptons that drs and myself never attributed to any one thing, but " hindsight " , you know? Penny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2001 Report Share Posted June 30, 2001 Count me in as another who has weak teeth. It always has been such a struggle although my parents always were very careful about us kids' oral health. I'm 32 going on 33 now and I've had so much bone loss and mobility that I actually dream about my teeth falling out periodically. At one point I was ready to go to the bookstore to look for books that are about interpretations of dreams!! After many fillings, 2 crowns, one molar bonded with a adjacent tooth to make it more stable, Now I face another terrible thing: sensitivity on my teeth. I've stopped drinking soda recently, only water and unsweetened ice tea. Can't wait to see my dentist at the end of July. I brush at least twice, use praxabrush in all the nooks and crannies twice, floss at least once a day, usually more. I even got the Sonicare toothbrush for both myself and DH (who has pretty strong teeth). What more can I do? Eunice Re: Teeth same here, I had to have dentures 6 yrs ago, when I was only 35. teeth cracking and breaking off for no apparent reason. hmmmm? But from what I have read on the net, there were alot of symptons that drs and myself never attributed to any one thing, but " hindsight " , you know? Penny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2001 Report Share Posted July 1, 2001 My teeth problems have actually calmed down lately but I have had them most of my life. I have a lot of fillings, about 5 crowns. I see a dentist 2 times a year and a periodontist 2 times a year. The newest problem for me is one area of my teeth that was resistant to my daily flossing and starting to bleed with brushing. I'm on my 3rd little type of brush, a praxabrush, that seems to have brought things under control. I do hate thinking that this is related to Graves disease. It just makes the whole thing more frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2001 Report Share Posted July 1, 2001 Hi My teeth have always been soft but a strange thing happened to me when my TSH went high and just before I started replacement drug. My teeth started bread of into pieces for no apparent reason. The Dentist and doctors say it was just a coincident with the fact of my thyroid dying off. But I wonder... Susie >From: kfroilan@... >Reply-To: graves_support >To: graves_support >Subject: Re: Teeth >Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 20:29:22 -0000 > >Hi all, > My teeth and my daughter's are not so good. We share a dentist and >he is always trying to tell us the state of our teeth is from lack of >brushing and sugar in the diet...and that's it! But last time i was >in there, i mentioned to him that it seemed the Graves' group, in >general had bad teeth, too. He scoffed and will not hear of it. >According to him there is nothing else that can explain it but poor >dental care (hygiene and diet)...I think he is wrong. > > > > > Hi Gang, My teeth are in terrible shape and have been for years and >not > > for lack of care and professional attention. This might have to do >with > > the acid or low, ph of our mouths. I have heard that with a higher >the > > ph the less likey we have of getting cavities. But is that our >problem? > > I don't have a much of problem with cavities; the teeth are just >very > > fragile. This situation could be caused by a yet to be named >infection. > > Who knows. But it is another problem we seem to have in common. > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2001 Report Share Posted July 1, 2001 Count me in as another who has teeth problems. My teeth were soft growing up but my parents made sure they were taken care of. In the last five years I've had trouble with teeth cracking, fillings cracking, teeth grinding, and stress on teeth. I've contributed some of this to the fact I started grinding my teeth five years ago. I find chips of tooth all the time in my mouth. I've ground my teeth so much they look horrible, I've considered false just because my natural are so horrible looking. When I look at my wedding pictures and my beautiful teeth it makes me sick what has happened the last 5 yrs. or so. I brush three or more times a day, floss after every meal. I believe that the grinding comes from the graves disease from the stress in the hyper stage. I too am tired of hearing that it is from candy, pop etc. When very seldom have pop and very seldom had it growing up. With six children in my family we couldn't afford or were aloud to drink it all the time. Pop, chips and dip were a treat to us growing up and still is our family. Three years ago was when my oldest had her first filling. My two daughters and I went through a terrible time then with having teeth problems. When I was pregnant in '96-'97 I bought chewable vitamin C. Two or threee times a week I made my trip to one of my doctor appts. going out the door we'd grab the chewable vitamin c. I read an article that Vit. C or acid fruit can cause cavities, so I attribute some of it to the chewable vitamin C and not brushing afterwards. Debbie R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2001 Report Share Posted July 2, 2001 Hi all;Im kind of a learker here,but Im also a dental assistant for 20 years.not to mention,Ive had graves disease for over 6 years and RAI twice .So Im familure with teeth and graves disease.Ive experanced more gum problems since Ive had graves,possably due to the diffrent medications Ive had to take or the fact my immune system just isnt what it use to be.I must say though that removing all your old fillings that are amalgam,to replace them with the composite(tooth colored fillings) or inlays is somewhat defeating the purpose unless you are allergic to or having a major reaction to the murcery.The reason I say this is becouse when the murcery fillings are drilled out you get exposed to far more,murcery then you ever will by having them in your mouth chewing on them.I would recomend that if this is someting a person is considering doing ,be sure to ask the dentist to at least use a rubber dam,that will keep you from injesting some of the filling material when its removed.Also my experance has been that there are alot of bad dentist out there(kinda like Endocronolagests)if your having alot of dental work that is having to be redone often,your probably getting substandard care.well done fillings should last around10+ years,good crown and bridge work should last even longer.The new tooth colored filling materials are very tecnique sensitive.If there not done well,a step is missed or there not cured long enough or the tooth gets wet during certian parts of the procudure.The material will break down easy.I have seen many people who think they have soft teeth,that dont,they either have a very strong bite and grind there teeth,causing fractures that eventually cause the teeth to break or need root canals,or they have alot of fillings and crown work that breaks down at the margins.Bad dentistry or bad hygine causes that.Anyway thats my 2 cents worth,hope it will be of some help to some one. Re: Teeth Hi all, My teeth and my daughter's are not so good. We share a dentist and he is always trying to tell us the state of our teeth is from lack of brushing and sugar in the diet...and that's it! But last time i was in there, i mentioned to him that it seemed the Graves' group, in general had bad teeth, too. He scoffed and will not hear of it. According to him there is nothing else that can explain it but poor dental care (hygiene and diet)...I think he is wrong. > Hi Gang, My teeth are in terrible shape and have been for years and not > for lack of care and professional attention. This might have to do with > the acid or low, ph of our mouths. I have heard that with a higher the > ph the less likey we have of getting cavities. But is that our problem? > I don't have a much of problem with cavities; the teeth are just very > fragile. This situation could be caused by a yet to be named infection. > Who knows. But it is another problem we seem to have in common. ------------------------------------- The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace expert medical care. Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments. ---------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2001 Report Share Posted July 4, 2001 Hi, Cheryl. Thanks for delurking. Your experiences and knowledge will be a boon for the group. About the mercury replacement: that's pretty much what my dentist said and while I wondered if he was just toeing the party line it did make sense to me. If you don't mind my asking, why did you have RAI twice? I know it's not uncommon but I've also heard that being on ATD's first increases the possiblility of needing it more than once. Hope you're doing well post-RAI and a happy fourth to everyone, Fay ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2001 Report Share Posted July 4, 2001 Hi, Cheryl. Thanks for delurking. Your experiences and knowledge will be a boon for the group. About the mercury replacement: that's pretty much what my dentist said and while I wondered if he was just toeing the party line it did make sense to me. If you don't mind my asking, why did you have RAI twice? I know it's not uncommon but I've also heard that being on ATD's first increases the possiblility of needing it more than once. Hope you're doing well post-RAI and a happy fourth to everyone, Fay ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2001 Report Share Posted July 4, 2001 Hello Fay;No I dont mind you asking...the reason I had RAI twice was ignorance.I lived in a small town with no internet access.I was only able to research the disease in the libarary.All the info I could get indicated there were only 2 ways to cure(ha ha) this disease.Surgery and RAI.I was on ADTs for about 6 months,they wernt woring according to my Endo.He gave me 2 months to decide which way I wanted to go.He made surgery sound so dangerous,you know the possability of injurying your voice so you wouldnt speak normaly ever again or the chance of injurying the gland that causes you to hold calcium.He made RAI seem so easy and final.I just went along with it.But the first time the uptake indicated 9 milicuries???would do the job so thats what I got.4months later my #s were higher then before the RAI, soooo he said Id have to do it again but would have to wait till the 6 month mark from my first time.So I had it done again 15 milicures this time.well it worked so to speak.my thyroid is dead,or dying .but 4 years later.Im not normal,by any means.Would I do it again NO NO NO!!! Im riding an endless rollercoaster!My #s never have been in " normal " ranger for more then a 6 month streach.I got TEDs and have had orbital decompression done on both my eyes(I must say thats the only thing that has gone well in treating this disease)and worst of all to me Im not the same person I was mentaly and emotionally I have drasticly changed not in a good way.However I have to say Im blessed,becouse I know it could be far worse.I have been able to work throughout the whole illness.Ive maintained my sanity enough to stumble through life and all the relatioships the disease has caused me to distroy.And I have a new Endo who has me somewhat stable.Thanks to this newsgroup,I find myself not alone,thats the worse part,friend and family grow tired of a cronic illness.They dont want to hear about your problems forever.well Im rambling better go Cheryl Re: Re: Teeth Hi, Cheryl. Thanks for delurking. Your experiences and knowledge will be a boon for the group. About the mercury replacement: that's pretty much what my dentist said and while I wondered if he was just toeing the party line it did make sense to me. If you don't mind my asking, why did you have RAI twice? I know it's not uncommon but I've also heard that being on ATD's first increases the possiblility of needing it more than once. Hope you're doing well post-RAI and a happy fourth to everyone, Fay ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------- The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace expert medical care. Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments. ---------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2001 Report Share Posted July 4, 2001 Hi Cheryl, Thank you for the information on removing mercury fillings! I had never thought of that and it makes good sense. Also I didn't know about a rubber damn...probably here no one knows about them...they don't seem to know about much else where I live either. Take care, Jody _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2001 Report Share Posted July 4, 2001 Hi Cheryl, Thank you for the information on removing mercury fillings! I had never thought of that and it makes good sense. Also I didn't know about a rubber damn...probably here no one knows about them...they don't seem to know about much else where I live either. Take care, Jody _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2001 Report Share Posted July 4, 2001 Thanks for that information Cheryl. What does the dentist you work with say about the relationship between Graves and gum disease? What do you think about it? Is there one? -- dx hyperT/Graves Feb 2001; (treatment Toprol Xl and PTU) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2001 Report Share Posted July 4, 2001 Thanks for that information Cheryl. What does the dentist you work with say about the relationship between Graves and gum disease? What do you think about it? Is there one? -- dx hyperT/Graves Feb 2001; (treatment Toprol Xl and PTU) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2001 Report Share Posted July 4, 2001 I've worked for two different dentists (one of whom is one of my best friends) and they both said the same thing. Replacing mercury fillings would expose a patient more than leaving well enough alone. Please note, the years that I worked for dentists, I never saw any correlation between autoimmune diseases and teeth problems. Recently I had to replace a amalgam filling myself and I even chose to use the amalgam filling again. Now if that tooth would have been seen when I smile or open my mouth I'd chosen the Composite material/tooth colored plastic resin. The reason I stuck with amalgam is, that I have no fear of the " mercury " issue, they last much longer and are much stronger and cheaper! To say ones problems are from amalgam fillings containing mercury isn't possible; we'd have to eliminate exposure from numerous sources first. > Hi all, > About teeth...I had gum surgery pre GD diagnosis and even after two 1/2 > years of tapazole, two years ago, my gums are healthy. I don't think > it is the anti-thyroid meds but it could be related to GD. > > I do have some old mercury fillings. My dentist is very caring and > conscientious ( as is my periodontist) and neither of them recommend > removing mercury fillings. The dentist has many mercury fillings > himself, he is Japanese and a vegetarian ( He said as a young man he had > a sweet tooth, but he is reformed) He had his blood tested for mercury > and it is very low, which he attributes to his diet. He always gives me > choice of material if I am having something replaced, and I get the new > kind, but he said that it isn't as if the new material could not cause > problems too. He is also the dentist for a friend of mine who chose to > have her fillings taken out and he did a lot of reading, including > things she brought to him, to help her analyze her situation. he was > not the dentist who profited from the removal, but he put much caring > study into it and was honest with her that he could not establish that > it would be a help to her health and that the removal could indeed > release more than her supposed current exposure. It has not been > possible to establish a benefit t o her after the procedure either...she > suffers from various and strange auto immunities. > > My sister-in-law also had her mercury fillings removed and she > continues four years later, at about the same level of up and down > health. ) Hashimoto's thryroiditis. So don't hock the family farm to > replace those fillings. > > what a toothsome reply, eh? > > Jeannette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2001 Report Share Posted July 6, 2001 Hi Cheryl, Well, my dentist did say he could show me a ton of mouths just like mine and worse, and they don't have graves'. But on the other hand, what is one to make of the statement " You are the kind of patient who, if it can go wrong, it will go wrong. " That seems to be acknowledging some difference between me and that ton of other mouths. I have trouble getting numb at the dentist. I wonder if that's due to being hyper... Nice to meet you Cheryl. > > Hi Gang, My teeth are in terrible shape and have been for years and > not > > for lack of care and professional attention. This might have to do > with > > the acid or low, ph of our mouths. I have heard that with a higher > the > > ph the less likey we have of getting cavities. But is that our > problem? > > I don't have a much of problem with cavities; the teeth are just > very > > fragile. This situation could be caused by a yet to be named > infection. > > Who knows. But it is another problem we seem to have in common. > > > > ------------------------------------- > The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace expert medical care. > Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments. > ---------------------------------------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2001 Report Share Posted July 6, 2001 Re: Teeth Hi Cheryl, Well, my dentist did say he could show me a ton of mouths just like mine and worse, and they don't have graves'. But on the other hand, what is one to make of the statement " You are the kind of patient who, if it can go wrong, it will go wrong. " That seems to be acknowledging some difference between me and that ton of other mouths. I have trouble getting numb at the dentist. I wonder if that's due to being hyper... Nice to meet you Cheryl. > > Hi Gang, My teeth are in terrible shape and have been for years and > not > > for lack of care and professional attention. This might have to do > with > > the acid or low, ph of our mouths. I have heard that with a higher > the > > ph the less likey we have of getting cavities. But is that our > problem? > > I don't have a much of problem with cavities; the teeth are just > very > > fragile. This situation could be caused by a yet to be named > infection. > > Who knows. But it is another problem we seem to have in common. > > > > ------------------------------------- > The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace expert medical care. > Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments. > ---------------------------------------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2001 Report Share Posted July 6, 2001 Re: Re: Teeth Thanks for that information Cheryl. What does the dentist you work with say about the relationship between Graves and gum disease? What do you think about it? Is there one? -- dx hyperT/Graves Feb 2001; (treatment Toprol Xl and PTU) ------------------------------------- The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace expert medical care. Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments. ---------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2001 Report Share Posted July 6, 2001 Hello ;My Dr is pretty clueless about thyroid problems in general.Giveing me only general info,brush and floss more,I brush 3 times a day and floss once a day.I also use a rinse called periomed that seems to help.He said maybe some of my medication.irratates my gums???Overall I think the Dental field is uneducated on thyroid problems,but what can you expect the medical field in general seems uninterested in it.They have a textbook " cure " for our problems and if it dont work they seem irratated.I just figure it has to be becouse my immune system cant fight off all the bacteria,so sometime it need a little help.Cheryl Re: Re: Teeth Thanks for that information Cheryl. What does the dentist you work with say about the relationship between Graves and gum disease? What do you think about it? Is there one? -- dx hyperT/Graves Feb 2001; (treatment Toprol Xl and PTU) ------------------------------------- The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace expert medical care. Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments. ---------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2001 Report Share Posted July 6, 2001 Hi , I too have trouble getting numb at the dentist. Interestingly, I lurk at one of the Sjogren's syndrome boards and this is also a common complaint there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2001 Report Share Posted July 6, 2001 I had that experience once--when my regular dentist was away and I had another one working on me in an emergency. But once my regular guy was back, I never had the problem again. I therefore wonder if a lot of that has to do with the skill in " aiming " the needle the dentist has. Terry > From: daisyelaine@... > Reply-To: graves_support > Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:56:52 EDT > To: graves_support > Subject: Re: Re: Teeth > > Hi , > I too have trouble getting numb at the dentist. Interestingly, I lurk at one > of the Sjogren's syndrome boards and this is also a common complaint there. > > ------------------------------------- > The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not > intended to replace expert medical care. > Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments. > ---------------------------------------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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