RE: Explanation from MikeNA and PC and News Breaks

[Guest guest]

,

It found it interesting reading your post how much we have in common. I

too had extended periods of AA involvement with abstinence. However for

the last several years, the periods dry became shorter and shorter. I

read the Small Book a few years back, which was kind of the Basic Text of

SMART back then, when it was called Rational Recovery. I find Eliis's

REBT useful in many instances as well, but I am glad that my therapist is

not exclusively from the cognitive school. I have had mixed results

using REBT with sobriety. A local SMART advisor said that SMART works

better after an extended period of abstinence. ( I guess it makes

rational thinking easier.)

I continued off and on involvement with AA for the past year, but have

found it no more useful than no involvement in regard to abstinence. I

wonder if this is because I have no faith in the 12 steps, or a group

approach to abstinence anymore. I mean this sincerely, I believe that AA

is basically faith healing in a community of believers. Because of the

psychological nature of addiction, it makes sense to me that occasionally

one find abstinence through a strong belief system, in this case AA.

I am thinking as I write this that groups like SOS and SMART are also

group support programs. While I guess that for anything to work one

needs some degree of f aith, but at least these groups encourage faith in

one's self, which to me seems safer then reliance on that which is

outside of the self when push comes to shove. I mean faith in a higher

power can whither, AA friends can ( and in my case have) betray you, but

if your sobriety rests squarely with yourself, then there is no danger.

Currently, I am using Trimpey's RR as outlined in his book Rational

Recovery. I have promised myself not to attend any AA meetings because

being in the atmosphere of a belief that I am powerless and only a HP (

group, God) can keep me sober endangers my chance at abstinence. I think

that after 15 years of AA involvement, I seem to fall back into the trap

of looking to be " saved " by AA. It is essential for me to refrain

abstinence as 100% my job.

As for AA friends, I am meeting the man who was last my sponsor tonight

for coffee at Starbucks. He is completely supportive of my choice to

leave AA/Na completely, even though he has 20 years of continuos

abstinence and AA involvement. However, it is our common interest which

cemented our friendship years ago, so there is no need for us to talk

much about addiction.

So, in closing, I understand your ambivalence about AA. For myself, I

feel that I have a much better shot of long term sobriety free from AA,

for there reasons I have stated, and more. I am a member of RR NET,

which offers education about RR and is attempting to break the monopoly

of the 12 step approach concerning treatment and education. While I feel

that Trimpey goes too far sometimes in his anti AA rhetoric, I am all for

the free exchange of ideas. Anyway, that's it for now.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I appreciated your post. There are many social aspects I miss

about AA - but I had to leave - as the group I was involved in was

too interested in " running my life for me. "

However, I know four people from that group that I love dearly and

would be willing to do anything for them - and they accept me as I

am. They know I used the Rational Recovery program, and while they

do not believe it works - they respect my right to do whatever it

takes to be sober. As a result I do count them among friends.

Best of luck to you.

> In a message dated 4/14/00 8:07:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

uusean@...

> writes:

>

> > I see that the egroup glitch has been corrected. Hope you are

well. Are

> > you thinking of chucking AA for good or are you still debating

it?

>

> I'm doing fine. Thanks for asking.

>

> I apologize to everyone that I haven't answered Emails before

today. I 've

> been on-line a number of years and realized like any good thing, I

can run it

> into the ground. So, I usually don't even go on my PC during the

weekend (or

> I try not to) and hardly ever respond to the posts on my mail

lists and

> usenet groups till Monday.

> This week I took an extra day, got out of the City, but I'm glad to

be back.

>

> It's sort of like taking a news break. The guy who

wrote " Spontaneous

> Healing " and from " Chocolate to Morphine, " Weil, as well as

others,

> believe that taking a break from the news is good for one's sanity

as well as

> one's soul. I do know it relieves a lot of tension!

>

>

>

> > Are you thinking of chucking AA for good or are you still

debating it?<

>

> I have no intention of leaving AA in the near future. As I've said

in other

> messages there is a lot that I get out of AA, and have learned a

long time

> ago, to shrug off or try to change the things about it I have

problems with.

>

> I really have no agenda except to get myself completely drug and

alcohol free

> again, something that has eluded me for a while. I don't drink, but

take

> prescription drugs that are controlled substances, which are

considered

> no-NOS in the program. But, as I told my therapist I do not really

feel

> guilty about it because in the state I'm in, my use (not misuse) of

these

> drugs have gotten be through a number of rough spots.

>

> I finally was making my year sober in 1996, after having gone out

after 11

> years in 1991, when I was diagnosed with prostate cancer. It's

funny how I

> did not use while I was going from doctor to doctor for 2nd and 3rd

opinions

> for treatment, and how I didn't use until my treatment was just

about

> finished. But when I got my first Percodan prescription for pain ---

--I have

> to say I did not take 1 every 4-6 hours! lol

>

> There are a few reasons I have no desire to leave AA. The first is

that I

> have real friends there. The second reason will sound grandiose

and

> egotistical, but I feel that I'm needed more now to do 12 step work

and talk

> to newcomers, than I was 20 years ago.

>

> I am disgusted by the way AA has changed. It is not one thing, but

all of

> them together, make it very hard for the newcomer. There are other

people who

> feel like me, and we, more or less deprogram newcomers from the

odious things

> that go on in meetings and things their " well meaning " sponsors

tell them.

>

> Now I see a bunch of people, well maybe not a bunch just a few, :-)

> straining at the leash, eager to address the contradiction of my

using

> prescription drugs and working with newcomers. Well, there really

isn't any

> contradiction. Everyone who is close to me knows I take medication.

Not one

> of them has ever said to stop it. I do not make an issue out of it

but if it

> comes up in a talk with somebody new, I'm honest about it.

>

> BTW, my ability to use opiates and tranquilizers as needed, without

going

> over the edge, has really debunked the disease theory. I can

control it,

> especially when my motives are good!

>

> I have ambivalent feelings about this group. I agree with a lot of

what is

> said here. Yet, initially I took the posters knocking of AA

personal. I will

> not do that any more. I am not here to defend what goes on in AA or

to try

> and explain various contradictions.

>

> What I will be using to stay sober are: the fellowship of AA and

doing my

> little bit of service work there. Learning about SMART and

incorporating,

> what I like about it into my life is a plus. BTW if there is anyone

on this

> list who is a member of SMART and can give me a few suggestions, I

will be

> very grateful.

>

> I also still believe that spirituality is a big help in my

recovery. I do

> not believe that it is anyone's business, what my conception of

God is. I've

> always despised people who wore their religion on their sleeves. It

is a

> matter that for me, should remain private.

>

> I also will continue to attend therapy and bring some of the SMART

concepts

> into our session. My therapist is not tied to a particular " school "

of

> therapy. The most important thing I received from her so far is

that she is

> the only person who knows all my secrets. Through her, I have more

self

> acceptance than I had in my 11 years of sobriety.

>

>

> Finally, I will continue to stay involved with this list. Just

like any

> other group the members of 12 - step - free come in all varieties.

I've heard

> some really good ideas here, as well as things that were made for

my delete

> key.

>

> I would never do anything to hurt AA as a whole, but will try to

improve the

> groups I go to.

>

> I went to therapy today, and told my therapist about finding SMART.

She being

> the smartass that she is, said I should do excellent in a program

that

> encourages me to think and analyze. She had been encouraging me to

get

> involved with people where I can use my intellect and powers of

reasoning

> without being considered a " troublemaker. "

>

> For those I haven't answered yet, I will try to tomorrow. ,

your email

> raised some good points and I'll tackle it after a good nights

sleep.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Mike

can you remind me of the the changes that you have seen in AA that

you

say have digusted you? I am very interested in this.

P.

[Guest guest]

pls take me off the list, or can someone pls explain to me how to get out of

this mailing.

Re: Explanation from MikeNA and PC and News

Breaks

Hi,

darn my spell check. I wanted to say reframe my recovery, but I think I

took refrain by mistake because the spell check doesn't like " reframe. "

Any way, enjoy American Beauty, and to all a good night.

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