Re: the biggest joke of all

[Guest guest]

" the divine rebekah " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=13295

> Geez, what a slimey post. I'm sure she will continue to question 12

step

> thinking inside treatment as well. I don't get the " powerless " remark

at

> all. Nowhere in her post do I get the slightest hint of her claiming

> powerlessness....thats a stepper concept. If anything she seems to be

going

> with the intent of empowering herself....to be able to feel more,

become

> more authentic and real.

> Rebekah

HEY DIVINE REBEKAH,

SHE MAY NOT ACTUALLY SAY THAT SHE IS POWERLESS, BUT THE FACT THAT SHE

IS GOING INTO TREATMENT SPEAKS VOLUMES.

THERE'S A WORD FOR THIS. IT'S CALLED " DENIAL " . FAMILIAR WITH IT???

AND BY THE WAY, PEOPLE GO TO AA TO EMPOWER THEMSELVES. YOU JUST

APPARENTLY COULDN'T GET IT.

[Guest guest]

At 19:31 14/03/00 -0800, you wrote:

>FUNNY HOW ONE VIEWS HUMILITY AS " SELF-ABUSIVE " . TO ME HUMILITY IS AN

>ASSET.

If you say so.

> And I do not subscribe to the Oxford-Group

> > derived folklore of powerlessness. It has no medical or scientific

>basis,

> > so why would I want to believe in it?

>

>SOMETIMES IT TAKES A LONG TIME BEFORE AN IDEA IS PROVEN.

And sometimes an idea isn't proven, it just circulates anyway. Like the

Oxford Group religion, and the idea that religion is necessary for recovery.

>IF MENTAL HEALTH PRINCIPLES ARE THE WAY IN WHICH YOU DESCRIBE, THEN WHY

>DO MOST MENTAL HEALTH WORKERS SUPPORT 12 STEP PROGRAMS?

They don't. Your friends in AA probably told you they do- this is but one

example of why it is not a good idea to get all your info ffrom AA- most of

it will be wrong.

>I know this is probably very hard to grasp, but there are people

> > out here who have been where you are now (believing in the goodness

>and

> > rightness of the 12 step program) and who got some more information

>on

> > addiction, recovery, and cults, and who decided that the 12 step

>program is

> > not quite as wonderful, helpful OR effective as its cracked up to be.

> >

> >

> > Joe B.

>

>I KNOW THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO THINK AA/NA IS A CULT. PEOPLE THINK MANY

>GROUPS ARE CULTS.

Some of the groups that people think are cults, are cults.

> BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT SO.

No, it is the control of information and behaviour and some other

characteristics like abusing people who decide to leave and telling them

they will die or go insane if they leave. That is what makes AA a cult.

> WHEN YOU COMPARE THE

>NUMBER OF THOSE WHO THINK ITS A CULT TO THOSE WHO HAVE FOUND SUCCESS IN

>AA,

You'd be surprised! And remember, I " found success " in AA, I knew (and

still know) other people who are " successfull in AA " and I know what it

is. The majority seem to have a number of unresolved psychological

problems. You're not talking to someone who hasn't been there. AA

" success " - it is a minority of the people who go there for help, who

actually manage to keep themselves sober in spite of the unhealthy program,

who believe it is the program that is helping them! That is really sad.

As for the numbers thing, well that is what the Scientiologists said too-

and they are still saying it. But there is an increasingly large number if

ex-Scientologists speaking out about that cult. You'll see the same thing

happening more and more, especially as the untruths AA tells new people

(see my last response) are shown more and more to be baseless. Those

people, when they find out that AA told them a crock, are angry about it.

And it is the responsibility of people like you. You have no-one to blame

but yourselves. I guess you shouldn't have told all those lies in the first

place!

>YOUR ARGUEMENT IS TRIVIAL AND ELEMENTARY.

There is only one " e " in argument.

Joe B.