ALA - direct inhibitor of retroviral replication

November 17, 2009

http://www.springerlink.com/content/p21177554k2r0228/

November 17, 2009

Even if we call these antiretrovirals, they are also chelators, unique, two thiol grouped compounds that alone possess the ability to grab hold of metals and carry them out. Chelator means "claw" in Latin.

And you could not extrapolate these to other antiviral/bacterial agents who did not have two thiol groups. As of date only Dmsa/Dmps/Ala and Cilantro fit this category.

ALA - direct inhibitor of retroviral replication

http://www.springerlink.com/content/p21177554k2r0228/

November 18, 2009

all this raises possibility that improvements seen while using chelators

could be down to their antiviral activity.

btw dmps, several iron chelators etc all have shown STRONG viral

inhibition mechanism

Natasa

>

> Even if we call these antiretrovirals, they are also chelators,

unique, two thiol grouped compounds that alone possess the ability to

grab hold of metals and carry them out. Chelator means " claw " in Latin.

>

> And you could not extrapolate these to other antiviral/bacterial

agents who did not have two thiol groups. As of date only Dmsa/Dmps/Ala

and Cilantro fit this category.

>

> ALA - direct inhibitor of retroviral

replication

>

> http://www.springerlink.com/content/p21177554k2r0228/

>

November 18, 2009

ALA - direct inhibitor of retroviralreplication>>>>>> http://www.springerlink.com/content/p21177554k2r0228/>

November 18, 2009

“Could it be that the chelators work as antiretrovirals by removing mercury? “

, that is not the case, that is not how chelators work here. They work by removing ions from cation-binding viral proteins, causing unfolding/loss of protein functionality. For example by opening zinc-finger proteins and similar. There are other mechanisms observed, such as inhibiting viral DNA synthesis through RNA reductase deactivation, see attached

btw some of these studies are in vitro, no mercury in sight, so the answer is NO they do not work as antivirals through chelating mercury, at least not exclusively (meaning to say that who knows maybe heavy metals are also directly utilised by some viruses)

And whatever is observed to happen in HIV only is only because HIV is studied lot more than others. There are no studies that show other viral proteins would not be unfolding in the same way when chelators added. Having said that there are studies on herpes/CMV and others that indicate same things going on.

The influence of divalent cations on the stability of human rotavirus.

The influence of divalent cations on the stability of human rotavirus was investigated using the indirect immunofluorescence (FA) technique in LLC-MK2 cells to titrate infectivity. Rotavirus infectivity was stabilized by calcium and strontium ions in solution but not by magnesium ions. Rotavirus isolates were found to be much less stable at 37 degrees C than at + 4 degrees C or 20 degrees. A study of virus morphology at intervals during the course of the experiment and treatment with the chelating agents EDTA and EGTA suggests that loss of infectivity coincides with the removal of the outer capsid layer and that calcium may be required to maintain virus integrity. Arch Virol. 1981;67(1):1-9. Shirley JA, Beards GM, Thouless ME, Flewett TH

Biochemical studies of primate retroviruses.

In the present paper, recent biochemical studies of retroviruses carried out in our laboratory are summarized. Protein compositions, peptide maps of internal structural proteins, neighborhoods of major structural proteins, and serological properties of reverse transcriptases of type D virus isolates from human cells (including Graffi's isolate termed PMFV and also isolates from HeLa- and HEp-2 cells) were compared with those of type D viruses from Old World (Mason-Pfizer virus of rhesus monkeys, langur virus) and New World (squirrel monkey retrovirus) monkeys. The results provide various new informations on, and further demonstrate the diversity of primate type D viruses. Other studies showed that tumor promoting agents (phorbol ester TPA, indole alkaloid teleocidin) are able to considerably increase, in a transient manner, the production of type C and type D primate retroviruses in persistently infected human cells. From experiments demonstrating a disintegrating activity of chelating agents (EDTA, EGTA) and certain psychoactive drugs (including trifluoperazine) on various primate and nonprimate retroviruses it is concluded that divalent cations, probably Ca2+ ions, and possibly also cation-binding proteins are associated with retroviral membranes and that complexing of these components results in loss of viral infectivity. Wunderlich Very, Uckert W, Sydow G Arch Geschwulstforsch. 1983;53(3):267-78.

1 of 1 File(s)

Anti-HIV effects of iron chelators.pdf

November 19, 2009

Natasa,

Thanks for the interesting studies. Admittedly there is a lot we still don't know about the intertwine of viruses and metals, how chelators or antivirals specific mechanism of action operate. My dream would be to hear you and Andy discuss this. I'm not setting you up, it's just that I learn best when I hear two well informed people discuss things. He is very adamant that the benefit of chelators is 100% due to the removal of metals. In the what causes what arena, does metal removal clear viruses, or does virus treatment remove metals he has stated that metal removal clears viruses and said he will debate anyone anytime on this issue. And we do have those metal dumps where each time there would be an improvement.

Dmsa, although we always used under 10 mgs, did something for her I could never put my finger on, right from the very first round. There is no good reason to believe the Dmsa removed any significant metals on that first round and there could be other explanations, but I offer it as one explanation. I still contend there is good evidence to believe that the chelators main or strongest action is in removing the metals but there's nothing to say the chelators could not do both, remove metals and somehow affect the viruses.

Also in practice, again, I know noone who has treated viral issues alone, who fits my definition of recovered and is still not medically managed. I've known more than a few with full viral treatment for years, who have had to eventually chelate. I was on the NIDS board for 2 years and the same 2 parents only reported any significant improvement and I offer if Dr. Goldberg was curing through antiviral treatment people would be beating a path to his door, they are not. Dr. McCandless has also said, that only her one patient reported in her book to be so helped by antivirals, ever. That was not the norm.

While I believe antiviral/immune treatment is very helpful and btw am grateful to Goldberg for bringing this to light, I do not see it as the main treatment for ASD. I think it is a valuable adjunct treatment. I still contend you have to do both, remove the metals and treat the viruses/immune system.

If you'd consent to discussing this with Andy, I'd love to hear from you as I truly think it would be an invaluable service to others.

Re: ALA - direct inhibitor of retroviral replication

“Could it be that the chelators work as antiretrovirals by removing mercury? “, that is not the case, that is not how chelators work here. They work by removing ions from cation-binding viral proteins, causing unfolding/loss of protein functionality. For example by opening zinc-finger proteins and similar. There are other mechanisms observed, such as inhibiting viral DNA synthesis through RNA reductase deactivation, see attachedbtw some of these studies are in vitro, no mercury in sight, so the answer is NO they do not work as antivirals through chelating mercury, at least not exclusively (meaning to say that who knows maybe heavy metals are also directly utilised by some viruses)And whatever is observed to happen in HIV only is only because HIV is studied lot more than others. There are no studies that show other viral proteins would not be unfolding in the same way when chelators added. Having said that there are studies on herpes/CMV and others that indicate same things going on. The influence of divalent cations on the stability of human rotavirus.The influence of divalent cations on the stability of human rotavirus was investigated using the indirect immunofluorescence (FA) technique in LLC-MK2 cells to titrate infectivity. Rotavirus infectivity was stabilized by calcium and strontium ions in solution but not by magnesium ions. Rotavirus isolates were found to be much less stable at 37 degrees C than at + 4 degrees C or 20 degrees. A study of virus morphology at intervals during the course of the experiment and treatment with the chelating agents EDTA and EGTA suggests that loss of infectivity coincides with the removal of the outer capsid layer and that calcium may be required to maintain virus integrity. Arch Virol. 1981;67(1):1-9. Shirley JA, Beards GM, Thouless ME, Flewett THBiochemical studies of primate retroviruses.In the present paper, recent biochemical studies of retroviruses carried out in our laboratory are summarized. Protein compositions, peptide maps of internal structural proteins, neighborhoods of major structural proteins, and serological properties of reverse transcriptases of type D virus isolates from human cells (including Graffi's isolate termed PMFV and also isolates from HeLa- and HEp-2 cells) were compared with those of type D viruses from Old World (Mason-Pfizer virus of rhesus monkeys, langur virus) and New World (squirrel monkey retrovirus) monkeys. The results provide various new informations on, and further demonstrate the diversity of primate type D viruses. Other studies showed that tumor promoting agents (phorbol ester TPA, indole alkaloid teleocidin) are able to considerably increase, in a transient manner, the production of type C and type D primate retroviruses in persistently infected human cells. From experiments demonstrating a disintegrating activity of chelating agents (EDTA, EGTA) and certain psychoactive drugs (including trifluoperazine) on various primate and nonprimate retroviruses it is concluded that divalent cations, probably Ca2+ ions, and possibly also cation-binding proteins are associated with retroviral membranes and that complexing of these components results in loss of viral infectivity. Wunderlich Very, Uckert W, Sydow G Arch Geschwulstforsch. 1983;53(3):267-78.

November 19, 2009

I did approach him with this info and said willing to discuss but

strangely had no reply from him

>

> Re: ALA - direct inhibitor of retroviral replicationNatasa,

>

> Thanks for the interesting studies. Admittedly there is a lot we still

don't know about the intertwine of viruses and metals, how chelators or

antivirals specific mechanism of action operate. My dream would be to

hear you and Andy discuss this. I'm not setting you up, it's just that

I learn best when I hear two well informed people discuss things. He is

very adamant that the benefit of chelators is 100% due to the removal of

metals. In the what causes what arena, does metal removal clear

viruses, or does virus treatment remove metals he has stated that metal

removal clears viruses and said he will debate anyone anytime on this

issue. And we do have those metal dumps where each time there would be

an improvement.

>

> Dmsa, although we always used under 10 mgs, did something for her I

could never put my finger on, right from the very first round. There is

no good reason to believe the Dmsa removed any significant metals on

that first round and there could be other explanations, but I offer it

as one explanation. I still contend there is good evidence to believe

that the chelators main or strongest action is in removing the metals

but there's nothing to say the chelators could not do both, remove

metals and somehow affect the viruses.

>

> Also in practice, again, I know noone who has treated viral issues

alone, who fits my definition of recovered and is still not medically

managed. I've known more than a few with full viral treatment for years,

who have had to eventually chelate. I was on the NIDS board for 2 years

and the same 2 parents only reported any significant improvement and I

offer if Dr. Goldberg was curing through antiviral treatment people

would be beating a path to his door, they are not. Dr. McCandless has

also said, that only her one patient reported in her book to be so

helped by antivirals, ever. That was not the norm.

>

> While I believe antiviral/immune treatment is very helpful and btw am

grateful to Goldberg for bringing this to light, I do not see it as the

main treatment for ASD. I think it is a valuable adjunct treatment. I

still contend you have to do both, remove the metals and treat the

viruses/immune system.

>

> If you'd consent to discussing this with Andy, I'd love to hear from

you as I truly think it would be an invaluable service to others.

>

> Re: ALA - direct inhibitor of retroviral

replication

>

> " Could it be that the chelators work as antiretrovirals by removing

mercury? "

>

> , that is not the case, that is not how chelators work here.

They work by removing ions from cation-binding viral proteins, causing

unfolding/loss of protein functionality. For example by opening

zinc-finger proteins and similar. There are other mechanisms observed,

such as inhibiting viral DNA synthesis through RNA reductase

deactivation, see attached

>

> btw some of these studies are in vitro, no mercury in sight, so the

answer is NO they do not work as antivirals through chelating mercury,

at least not exclusively (meaning to say that who knows maybe heavy

metals are also directly utilised by some viruses)

>

> And whatever is observed to happen in HIV only is only because HIV

is studied lot more than others. There are no studies that show other

viral proteins would not be unfolding in the same way when chelators

added. Having said that there are studies on herpes/CMV and others that

indicate same things going on.

>

> The influence of divalent cations on the stability of human

rotavirus.

> The influence of divalent cations on the stability of human

rotavirus was investigated using the indirect immunofluorescence (FA)

technique in LLC-MK2 cells to titrate infectivity. Rotavirus infectivity

was stabilized by calcium and strontium ions in solution but not by

magnesium ions. Rotavirus isolates were found to be much less stable at

37 degrees C than at + 4 degrees C or 20 degrees. A study of virus

morphology at intervals during the course of the experiment and

treatment with the chelating agents EDTA and EGTA suggests that loss of

infectivity coincides with the removal of the outer capsid layer and

that calcium may be required to maintain virus integrity. Arch Virol.

1981;67(1):1-9. Shirley JA, Beards GM, Thouless ME, Flewett TH

>

> Biochemical studies of primate retroviruses.

> In the present paper, recent biochemical studies of retroviruses

carried out in our laboratory are summarized. Protein compositions,

peptide maps of internal structural proteins, neighborhoods of major

structural proteins, and serological properties of reverse

transcriptases of type D virus isolates from human cells (including

Graffi's isolate termed PMFV and also isolates from HeLa- and HEp-2

cells) were compared with those of type D viruses from Old World

(Mason-Pfizer virus of rhesus monkeys, langur virus) and New World

(squirrel monkey retrovirus) monkeys. The results provide various new

informations on, and further demonstrate the diversity of primate type D

viruses. Other studies showed that tumor promoting agents (phorbol ester

TPA, indole alkaloid teleocidin) are able to considerably increase, in a

transient manner, the production of type C and type D primate

retroviruses in persistently infected human cells. From experiments

demonstrating a disintegrating activity of chelating agents (EDTA, EGTA)

and certain psychoactive drugs (including trifluoperazine) on various

primate and nonprimate retroviruses it is concluded that divalent

cations, probably Ca2+ ions, and possibly also cation-binding proteins

are associated with retroviral membranes and that complexing of these

components results in loss of viral infectivity. Wunderlich Very, Uckert

W, Sydow G Arch Geschwulstforsch. 1983;53(3):267-78.

>

November 19, 2009

, we just went back to DMSA because I got my amalgam out and I am

chelating with the kids (DMSA is what I can use at this point). I am noticing

my ASD son is having more positive effects from DMSA than he did with ALA. I

always knew his issue was lead more than the other metals, but was concerned

that it would cause too much damage coming out, so decided to do ALA alone at

that time (about 2 years ago?)

So we did ALA and then later added DMSA mistakenly NOT LESSENING the current ALA

dose...oops. Big WOW with the first round of DMSA anyway - he asked his first

question I ever heard him ask. Then there were bad side effects due to the

dosage being too high, me not understanding blood sugar things were going on,

etc.

We went back on ALA alone for awhile, then had a 3 month break with great

improvements, then the improvements tapered off and I started the boys on a very

low dose of ALA again...tolerated fine but no improvements noticed. Then I got

my amalgam out (just recently in Oct) and we all (me and my two boys) did DMSA

(two rounds so far). Things are seeming better all the time - ESPECIALLY if we

take a weekend off, the good results are noticed THAT NEXT WEEK.

Just thought I'd share that DMSA is working well here too (in that " can't put my

finger on it " kind of way . I haven't felt anything personally, but I'm

continuing of course because I am sure I have metals coming out. Maybe after

the next round, I will consider a little higher dose.

>

> Re: ALA - direct inhibitor of retroviral replicationNatasa,

>

> Thanks for the interesting studies. Admittedly there is a lot we still don't

know about the intertwine of viruses and metals, how chelators or antivirals

specific mechanism of action operate. My dream would be to hear you and Andy

discuss this. I'm not setting you up, it's just that I learn best when I hear

two well informed people discuss things. He is very adamant that the benefit of

chelators is 100% due to the removal of metals. In the what causes what arena,

does metal removal clear viruses, or does virus treatment remove metals he has

stated that metal removal clears viruses and said he will debate anyone anytime

on this issue. And we do have those metal dumps where each time there would be

an improvement.

>

> Dmsa, although we always used under 10 mgs, did something for her I could

never put my finger on, right from the very first round. There is no good

reason to believe the Dmsa removed any significant metals on that first round

and there could be other explanations, but I offer it as one explanation. I

still contend there is good evidence to believe that the chelators main or

strongest action is in removing the metals but there's nothing to say the

chelators could not do both, remove metals and somehow affect the viruses.

>

> Also in practice, again, I know noone who has treated viral issues alone, who

fits my definition of recovered and is still not medically managed. I've known

more than a few with full viral treatment for years, who have had to eventually

chelate. I was on the NIDS board for 2 years and the same 2 parents only

reported any significant improvement and I offer if Dr. Goldberg was curing

through antiviral treatment people would be beating a path to his door, they are

not. Dr. McCandless has also said, that only her one patient reported in her

book to be so helped by antivirals, ever. That was not the norm.

>

> While I believe antiviral/immune treatment is very helpful and btw am grateful

to Goldberg for bringing this to light, I do not see it as the main treatment

for ASD. I think it is a valuable adjunct treatment. I still contend you have

to do both, remove the metals and treat the viruses/immune system.

>

> If you'd consent to discussing this with Andy, I'd love to hear from you as I

truly think it would be an invaluable service to others.

>

> Re: ALA - direct inhibitor of retroviral replication

>

> " Could it be that the chelators work as antiretrovirals by removing mercury?

"

>

> , that is not the case, that is not how chelators work here. They

work by removing ions from cation-binding viral proteins, causing unfolding/loss

of protein functionality. For example by opening zinc-finger proteins and

similar. There are other mechanisms observed, such as inhibiting viral DNA

synthesis through RNA reductase deactivation, see attached

>

> btw some of these studies are in vitro, no mercury in sight, so the answer

is NO they do not work as antivirals through chelating mercury, at least not

exclusively (meaning to say that who knows maybe heavy metals are also directly

utilised by some viruses)

>

> And whatever is observed to happen in HIV only is only because HIV is

studied lot more than others. There are no studies that show other viral

proteins would not be unfolding in the same way when chelators added. Having

said that there are studies on herpes/CMV and others that indicate same things

going on.

>

> The influence of divalent cations on the stability of human rotavirus.

> The influence of divalent cations on the stability of human rotavirus was

investigated using the indirect immunofluorescence (FA) technique in LLC-MK2

cells to titrate infectivity. Rotavirus infectivity was stabilized by calcium

and strontium ions in solution but not by magnesium ions. Rotavirus isolates

were found to be much less stable at 37 degrees C than at + 4 degrees C or 20

degrees. A study of virus morphology at intervals during the course of the

experiment and treatment with the chelating agents EDTA and EGTA suggests that

loss of infectivity coincides with the removal of the outer capsid layer and

that calcium may be required to maintain virus integrity. Arch Virol.

1981;67(1):1-9. Shirley JA, Beards GM, Thouless ME, Flewett TH

>

> Biochemical studies of primate retroviruses.

> In the present paper, recent biochemical studies of retroviruses carried out

in our laboratory are summarized. Protein compositions, peptide maps of internal

structural proteins, neighborhoods of major structural proteins, and serological

properties of reverse transcriptases of type D virus isolates from human cells

(including Graffi's isolate termed PMFV and also isolates from HeLa- and HEp-2

cells) were compared with those of type D viruses from Old World (Mason-Pfizer

virus of rhesus monkeys, langur virus) and New World (squirrel monkey

retrovirus) monkeys. The results provide various new informations on, and

further demonstrate the diversity of primate type D viruses. Other studies

showed that tumor promoting agents (phorbol ester TPA, indole alkaloid

teleocidin) are able to considerably increase, in a transient manner, the

production of type C and type D primate retroviruses in persistently infected

human cells. From experiments demonstrating a disintegrating activity of

chelating agents (EDTA, EGTA) and certain psychoactive drugs (including

trifluoperazine) on various primate and nonprimate retroviruses it is concluded

that divalent cations, probably Ca2+ ions, and possibly also cation-binding

proteins are associated with retroviral membranes and that complexing of these

components results in loss of viral infectivity. Wunderlich Very, Uckert W,

Sydow G Arch Geschwulstforsch. 1983;53(3):267-78.

>

November 19, 2009

there has been long time theories that metals and viruses attach so that treating EITHER one would effect the other if they are bound, thus treating virus issues can take with it metals, or treating metals can releast viruses....so then even fixing the immune system can help it address virsus and even dump metals ect....so both CAN be right

Re: ALA - direct inhibitor of retroviral replication

“Could it be that the chelators work as antiretrovirals by removing mercury? “, that is not the case, that is not how chelators work here. They work by removing ions from cation-binding viral proteins, causing unfolding/loss of protein functionality. For example by opening zinc-finger proteins and similar. There are other mechanisms observed, such as inhibiting viral DNA synthesis through RNA reductase deactivation, see attachedbtw some of these studies are in vitro, no mercury in sight, so the answer is NO they do not work as antivirals through chelating mercury, at least not exclusively (meaning to say that who knows maybe heavy metals are also directly utilised by some viruses)And whatever is observed to happen in HIV only is only because HIV is studied lot more than others. There are no studies that show other viral proteins would not be unfolding in the same way when chelators added. Having said that there are studies on herpes/CMV and others that indicate same things going on. The influence of divalent cations on the stability of human rotavirus.The influence of divalent cations on the stability of human rotavirus was investigated using the indirect immunofluorescence (FA) technique in LLC-MK2 cells to titrate infectivity. Rotavirus infectivity was stabilized by calcium and strontium ions in solution but not by magnesium ions. Rotavirus isolates were found to be much less stable at 37 degrees C than at + 4 degrees C or 20 degrees. A study of virus morphology at intervals during the course of the experiment and treatment with the chelating agents EDTA and EGTA suggests that loss of infectivity coincides with the removal of the outer capsid layer and that calcium may be required to maintain virus integrity. Arch Virol. 1981;67(1):1-9. Shirley JA, Beards GM, Thouless ME, Flewett THBiochemical studies of primate retroviruses.In the present paper, recent biochemical studies of retroviruses carried out in our laboratory are summarized. Protein compositions, peptide maps of internal structural proteins, neighborhoods of major structural proteins, and serological properties of reverse transcriptases of type D virus isolates from human cells (including Graffi's isolate termed PMFV and also isolates from HeLa- and HEp-2 cells) were compared with those of type D viruses from Old World (Mason-Pfizer virus of rhesus monkeys, langur virus) and New World (squirrel monkey retrovirus) monkeys. The results provide various new informations on, and further demonstrate the diversity of primate type D viruses. Other studies showed that tumor promoting agents (phorbol ester TPA, indole alkaloid teleocidin) are able to considerably increase, in a transient manner, the production of type C and type D primate retroviruses in persistently infected human cells. From experiments demonstrating a disintegrating activity of chelating agents (EDTA, EGTA) and certain psychoactive drugs (including trifluoperazine) on various primate and nonprimate retroviruses it is concluded that divalent cations, probably Ca2+ ions, and possibly also cation-binding proteins are associated with retroviral membranes and that complexing of these components results in loss of viral infectivity. Wunderlich Very, Uckert W, Sydow G Arch Geschwulstforsch. 1983;53(3):267-78.

November 19, 2009

Re: ALA - direct inhibitor of retroviral replication

“Could it be that the chelators work as antiretrovirals by removing mercury? “, that is not the case, that is not how chelators work here. They work by removing ions from cation-binding viral proteins, causing unfolding/loss of protein functionality. For example by opening zinc-finger proteins and similar. There are other mechanisms observed, such as inhibiting viral DNA synthesis through RNA reductase deactivation, see attachedbtw some of these studies are in vitro, no mercury in sight, so the answer is NO they do not work as antivirals through chelating mercury, at least not exclusively (meaning to say that who knows maybe heavy metals are also directly utilised by some viruses)And whatever is observed to happen in HIV only is only because HIV is studied lot more than others. There are no studies that show other viral proteins would not be unfolding in the same way when chelators added. Having said that there are studies on herpes/CMV and others that indicate same things going on. The influence of divalent cations on the stability of human rotavirus.The influence of divalent cations on the stability of human rotavirus was investigated using the indirect immunofluorescence (FA) technique in LLC-MK2 cells to titrate infectivity. Rotavirus infectivity was stabilized by calcium and strontium ions in solution but not by magnesium ions. Rotavirus isolates were found to be much less stable at 37 degrees C than at + 4 degrees C or 20 degrees. A study of virus morphology at intervals during the course of the experiment and treatment with the chelating agents EDTA and EGTA suggests that loss of infectivity coincides with the removal of the outer capsid layer and that calcium may be required to maintain virus integrity. Arch Virol. 1981;67(1):1-9. Shirley JA, Beards GM, Thouless ME, Flewett THBiochemical studies of primate retroviruses.In the present paper, recent biochemical studies of retroviruses carried out in our laboratory are summarized. Protein compositions, peptide maps of internal structural proteins, neighborhoods of major structural proteins, and serological properties of reverse transcriptases of type D virus isolates from human cells (including Graffi's isolate termed PMFV and also isolates from HeLa- and HEp-2 cells) were compared with those of type D viruses from Old World (Mason-Pfizer virus of rhesus monkeys, langur virus) and New World (squirrel monkey retrovirus) monkeys. The results provide various new informations on, and further demonstrate the diversity of primate type D viruses. Other studies showed that tumor promoting agents (phorbol ester TPA, indole alkaloid teleocidin) are able to considerably increase, in a transient manner, the production of type C and type D primate retroviruses in persistently infected human cells. From experiments demonstrating a disintegrating activity of chelating agents (EDTA, EGTA) and certain psychoactive drugs (including trifluoperazine) on various primate and nonprimate retroviruses it is concluded that divalent cations, probably Ca2+ ions, and possibly also cation-binding proteins are associated with retroviral membranes and that complexing of these components results in loss of viral infectivity. Wunderlich Very, Uckert W, Sydow G Arch Geschwulstforsch. 1983;53(3):267-78.

November 19, 2009

Re: ALA - direct inhibitor of retroviral replication> > > "Could it be that the chelators work as antiretrovirals by removing mercury? "> > , that is not the case, that is not how chelators work here. They work by removing ions from cation-binding viral proteins, causing unfolding/loss of protein functionality. For example by opening zinc-finger proteins and similar. There are other mechanisms observed, such as inhibiting viral DNA synthesis through RNA reductase deactivation, see attached> > btw some of these studies are in vitro, no mercury in sight, so the answer is NO they do not work as antivirals through chelating mercury, at least not exclusively (meaning to say that who knows maybe heavy metals are also directly utilised by some viruses)> > And whatever is observed to happen in HIV only is only because HIV is studied lot more than others. There are no studies that show other viral proteins would not be unfolding in the same way when chelators added. Having said that there are studies on herpes/CMV and others that indicate same things going on. > > > > The influence of divalent cations on the stability of human rotavirus.> The influence of divalent cations on the stability of human rotavirus was investigated using the indirect immunofluorescence (FA) technique in LLC-MK2 cells to titrate infectivity. Rotavirus infectivity was stabilized by calcium and strontium ions in solution but not by magnesium ions. Rotavirus isolates were found to be much less stable at 37 degrees C than at + 4 degrees C or 20 degrees. A study of virus morphology at intervals during the course of the experiment and treatment with the chelating agents EDTA and EGTA suggests that loss of infectivity coincides with the removal of the outer capsid layer and that calcium may be required to maintain virus integrity. Arch Virol. 1981;67(1):1-9. Shirley JA, Beards GM, Thouless ME, Flewett TH> > > Biochemical studies of primate retroviruses.> In the present paper, recent biochemical studies of retroviruses carried out in our laboratory are summarized. Protein compositions, peptide maps of internal structural proteins, neighborhoods of major structural proteins, and serological properties of reverse transcriptases of type D virus isolates from human cells (including Graffi's isolate termed PMFV and also isolates from HeLa- and HEp-2 cells) were compared with those of type D viruses from Old World (Mason-Pfizer virus of rhesus monkeys, langur virus) and New World (squirrel monkey retrovirus) monkeys. The results provide various new informations on, and further demonstrate the diversity of primate type D viruses. Other studies showed that tumor promoting agents (phorbol ester TPA, indole alkaloid teleocidin) are able to considerably increase, in a transient manner, the production of type C and type D primate retroviruses in persistently infected human cells. From experiments demonstrating a disintegrating activity of chelating agents (EDTA, EGTA) and certain psychoactive drugs (including trifluoperazine) on various primate and nonprimate retroviruses it is concluded that divalent cations, probably Ca2+ ions, and possibly also cation-binding proteins are associated with retroviral membranes and that complexing of these components results in loss of viral infectivity. Wunderlich Very, Uckert W, Sydow G Arch Geschwulstforsch. 1983;53(3):267-78.>

November 19, 2009

Going on a tangent here, this study I found today was really interesting. Here

is why (followed by study link):

said he had symptoms of Cystic Fibrosis as a child and I don't know how,

but I came up with Pseudomonas Aeruginosa as a common pathogen found in the

lungs of people with CF. Interestingly, it is also found in the biofilm in the

gut of children with autism.

I found an article that said EDTA and DMSA are valuable in breaking up the

Pseudomonas Aeruginosa.

Then I remembered an article I had read about aluminum causing tissue in the

lungs to tear and thought hmmm, great place for bacteria then. Aluminum was

found in the lungs of patients with that rather " new " disease Macrophagic

Myofaciitis. Then I found this.

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17309619>

Pseudomonas Aeruginosa happens to stick real nicely on aluminum. Maybe DMSA is

helping, in part, by breaking up the PA and maybe that is why when you chelate

for mercury, aluminum is released???

> >

> > Re: ALA - direct inhibitor of retroviral replicationNatasa,

> >

> > Thanks for the interesting studies. Admittedly there is a lot we still

don't know about the intertwine of viruses and metals, how chelators or

antivirals specific mechanism of action operate. My dream would be to hear you

and Andy discuss this. I'm not setting you up, it's just that I learn best when

I hear two well informed people discuss things. He is very adamant that the

benefit of chelators is 100% due to the removal of metals. In the what causes

what arena, does metal removal clear viruses, or does virus treatment remove

metals he has stated that metal removal clears viruses and said he will debate

anyone anytime on this issue. And we do have those metal dumps where each time

there would be an improvement.

> >

> > Dmsa, although we always used under 10 mgs, did something for her I could

never put my finger on, right from the very first round. There is no good reason

to believe the Dmsa removed any significant metals on that first round and there

could be other explanations, but I offer it as one explanation. I still contend

there is good evidence to believe that the chelators main or strongest action is

in removing the metals but there's nothing to say the chelators could not do

both, remove metals and somehow affect the viruses.

> >

> > Also in practice, again, I know noone who has treated viral issues alone,

who fits my definition of recovered and is still not medically managed. I've

known more than a few with full viral treatment for years, who have had to

eventually chelate. I was on the NIDS board for 2 years and the same 2 parents

only reported any significant improvement and I offer if Dr. Goldberg was curing

through antiviral treatment people would be beating a path to his door, they are

not. Dr. McCandless has also said, that only her one patient reported in her

book to be so helped by antivirals, ever. That was not the norm.

> >

> > While I believe antiviral/immune treatment is very helpful and btw am

grateful to Goldberg for bringing this to light, I do not see it as the main

treatment for ASD. I think it is a valuable adjunct treatment. I still contend

you have to do both, remove the metals and treat the viruses/immune system.

> >

> > If you'd consent to discussing this with Andy, I'd love to hear from you

as I truly think it would be an invaluable service to others.

> >

> > Re: ALA - direct inhibitor of retroviral

replication

> >

> > " Could it be that the chelators work as antiretrovirals by removing

mercury? "

> >

> > , that is not the case, that is not how chelators work here. They

work by removing ions from cation-binding viral proteins, causing unfolding/loss

of protein functionality. For example by opening zinc-finger proteins and

similar. There are other mechanisms observed, such as inhibiting viral DNA

synthesis through RNA reductase deactivation, see attached

> >

> > btw some of these studies are in vitro, no mercury in sight, so the answer

is NO they do not work as antivirals through chelating mercury, at least not

exclusively (meaning to say that who knows maybe heavy metals are also directly

utilised by some viruses)

> >

> > And whatever is observed to happen in HIV only is only because HIV is

studied lot more than others. There are no studies that show other viral

proteins would not be unfolding in the same way when chelators added. Having

said that there are studies on herpes/CMV and others that indicate same things

going on.

> >

> > The influence of divalent cations on the stability of human rotavirus.

> > The influence of divalent cations on the stability of human rotavirus was