Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 Yeah yeah Sally, you have done physio rounds as well then!!!! They must have sheet they follow codes on, kidney disease = flank pain=no such thing, so physio or back problem then!!!! My urologist and nephrologist do speak to each other luckily, but they don't seem to agree, which for last year has left me in the middle in pain and thoroughly cheesed off. Pierre you are spot on with your description on Nephs and Urologists, they for the most part, seem to be at odds with each other. I consider I have had to renograms unnecessarily because of this sigh!!! Flank pain maybe a combination of many things, but I have no doubt in my mind at least, that it is related to IGAN, contentious I know, but that is my thoughts. I for one would love to be proved wrong. Hope all is well with you Pierre, we must have a chat soon ! Love Re: Re: Symptoms? On the subject of pain, I know many of you are suffering with it, but the fact remains that there are no pain nerves in the area of the glomeruli, where IgAN does its dirty work. If the pain is from the kidneys, it's not from the nephrons. If the kidneys are inflamed and enlarged, then pain is more likely to be from stretching of the capsule that surrounds the kidneys. Beyond that, I can't think of anything other than perhaps irritation of the urinary tract, or something totally unrelated. I will never forget the one period many years ago now, during which I though I actually was having very bad flank pain. Of course, I was sure it was the kidney, but it turned out to be gallstones, and I eventually had surgery for that. Another time, I had pain which I felt was in my back, on both sides, but that turned out to be a case of pancreatitis. If you do have chronic pain, don't expect a nephrologist to follow that up unless it's clearly from the kidneys. They may express some mild interest in it, but any nephrologist I've ever known is only interested specifically in renal insufficiency. They don't even care very much about the urinary system in general, as that is more of a urologist's concern. There's always a chance it could be something else, and an internist is probably a better doctor to look at the problem. Sometimes to the desperation of the patient, a nephrologist is about as specialized and focussed as it gets - kidney function and dialysis. Pain after eating is really suggestive of something other than the kidneys. Pierre To edit your settings for the group, go to our Yahoo Group home page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iga-nephropathy/ To unsubcribe via email, iga-nephropathy-unsubscribe Visit our companion website at www.igan.ca. The site is entirely supported by donations. If you would like to help, go to: http://www.igan.ca/id62.htm Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 Hey Dave, On that pain after eating, many of us have had gallstones, myself included and that sounds more like that pain especially if it is worse after eating. Please do have your doctor pursue it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 The pain of pancreatitis is as bad as or worse than labor pains! Worst I have ever felt in my entire life. There is no mistaking that pain at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 Sorry Dave, I meant ! Can I plead to fuzzy thinking with this terrible flu bug? :-) If not, then I guess I will be left with no other choice than to admit I am human and make mistakes :-) so much for being perfect :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 I don't know about that!!! In a message dated 12/29/2003 12:03:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, garradh@... writes: > That's ok - you're a lot closer to perfect than I ;o) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 Pierre, Where does the pain relating to kidney stones come from then? Dave Re: Re: Symptoms? On the subject of pain, I know many of you are suffering with it, but the fact remains that there are no pain nerves in the area of the glomeruli, where IgAN does its dirty work. If the pain is from the kidneys, it's not from the nephrons. If the kidneys are inflamed and enlarged, then pain is more likely to be from stretching of the capsule that surrounds the kidneys. Beyond that, I can't think of anything other than perhaps irritation of the urinary tract, or something totally unrelated. I will never forget the one period many years ago now, during which I though I actually was having very bad flank pain. Of course, I was sure it was the kidney, but it turned out to be gallstones, and I eventually had surgery for that. Another time, I had pain which I felt was in my back, on both sides, but that turned out to be a case of pancreatitis. If you do have chronic pain, don't expect a nephrologist to follow that up unless it's clearly from the kidneys. They may express some mild interest in it, but any nephrologist I've ever known is only interested specifically in renal insufficiency. They don't even care very much about the urinary system in general, as that is more of a urologist's concern. There's always a chance it could be something else, and an internist is probably a better doctor to look at the problem. Sometimes to the desperation of the patient, a nephrologist is about as specialized and focussed as it gets - kidney function and dialysis. Pain after eating is really suggestive of something other than the kidneys. Pierre ---------- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.209 / Virus Database: 261.5.4 - Release Date: 26/12/2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 Hi Dave As far as I know: Stones can obstruct the renal ducts, or become lodged in the ureters, the long, narrow ducts that carry urine from the kidneys to the bladder. This is all downstream from the nephrons, which are the site of glomerular disease. When the obstruction is in the renal ducts, it can cause stretching of the renal capsule (this can cause severe flank pain, and it's the same thing that is suspected to be causing pain with IgAN and other kidney diseases, although probably to a much lesser degree). Or the pain can be from wherever the stones are lodged in the ureter. I'm lucky I've never really had bad flank pain, but I sympathize with those who do. Sympathize is about all anyone can do, including the doctors, because non-steroidal painkillers aren't likely to be prescribed for continuous use in the presence of chronic kidney disease. Pierre PS I've heard people actually scream in pain from stones, but so far, I haven't heard any from IgAN. Of course, I may not have been at the right place at the right time Re: Re: Symptoms? > > > On the subject of pain, I know many of you are suffering with it, but the > fact remains that there are no pain nerves in the area of the glomeruli, > where IgAN does its dirty work. If the pain is from the kidneys, it's not > from the nephrons. If the kidneys are inflamed and enlarged, then pain is > more likely to be from stretching of the capsule that surrounds the kidneys. > > Beyond that, I can't think of anything other than perhaps irritation of the > urinary tract, or something totally unrelated. I will never forget the one > period many years ago now, during which I though I actually was having very > bad flank pain. Of course, I was sure it was the kidney, but it turned out > to be gallstones, and I eventually had surgery for that. Another time, I had > pain which I felt was in my back, on both sides, but that turned out to be a > case of pancreatitis. > > If you do have chronic pain, don't expect a nephrologist to follow that up > unless it's clearly from the kidneys. They may express some mild interest in > it, but any nephrologist I've ever known is only interested specifically in > renal insufficiency. They don't even care very much about the urinary system > in general, as that is more of a urologist's concern. There's always a > chance it could be something else, and an internist is probably a better > doctor to look at the problem. Sometimes to the desperation of the patient, > a nephrologist is about as specialized and focussed as it gets - kidney > function and dialysis. > > Pain after eating is really suggestive of something other than the kidneys. > > Pierre > > > ---------- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 7.0.209 / Virus Database: 261.5.4 - Release Date: 26/12/2003 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 Thanks for that , I will do - I think also ... I think it was Pierre who said ... when you are newly diagnosed with a chronic illness, you listen more and notice every ache and pain around - and automatically try and associate it. I think this is absolutely correct for me at the moment, whereas before , I would get the odd niggle here and there - age is catching up on me!! - but I wouldn't really pay any heed to it. Paranoia perhaps? *looks over shoulder* The pain you describe just after you've eaten seem a strange one to be related to IgAN - I assume you've discussed with your Doc? Dave Re: Symptoms? Dave... I have had Igan for 28 years or so I have to deal with kidney (flank) pain everyday.My pain is severe most of the time.Everytime I eat the sharp stabbing pains start.Some of the sharp pains can take my breath away.My kidneys are 3 centimeters larger than normal and may have something to do with my pain.Playing golf or other activities raises the pain levels too! I have tried 2 nerve blocks (numbing solution injected into spinal area) to try and block the pain,with no success. I have been taking pain meds (Lortab) for 8 years 4 times a day. Without it I would not be able to function. My job requires me to work shift work..3 weeks days--3 weeks nights.This is very hard on my system especially my kidneys. This pain is Igan related but any other pain that you spoke of should not be. I cannot complain though because I am still NOT on dialysis.I would have the other pain you have checked out. I hope this helps. ---------- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.209 / Virus Database: 261.5.4 - Release Date: 26/12/2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 My father suffered from bouts of Pancreatitis and i seem to recall the pain being really severe! Re: Re: Symptoms? I don't know . I'm sure they must already have looked at all the possibilities. Pancreatitis is easily diagnosed by a simple blood test (at least initially), and gallbladder problems usually by an abdominal ultrasound, and sometimes a nuclear scan to see what happens when you eat. I remember sitting in a hospital corridor eating a hospital meal when I wasn't hungry just for the test Don't get me wrong though. I certainly sympathize with you and everyone else who is having this flank pain. When you eat something, there's really not much different that happens in the kidneys. They just continue filtering your blood 24 hours a day. Pierre ---------- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.209 / Virus Database: 261.5.4 - Release Date: 26/12/2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 , It was who described pain after eating, I was replying to him because it did seem a little unusual! Dave Re: Re: Symptoms? Hey Dave, On that pain after eating, many of us have had gallstones, myself included and that sounds more like that pain especially if it is worse after eating. Please do have your doctor pursue it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 Thanks Pierre, thinking about it I should have realised that I guess though what was surprising me about it was that some parts of the kidney can cause pain and others not? yep, I've seen kidney stones in action too! Dave ---- Original Message ----- From: Pierre L (groups) To: iga-nephropathy Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 7:07 PM Subject: Re: Re: Symptoms? Hi Dave As far as I know: Stones can obstruct the renal ducts, or become lodged in the ureters, the long, narrow ducts that carry urine from the kidneys to the bladder. This is all downstream from the nephrons, which are the site of glomerular disease. When the obstruction is in the renal ducts, it can cause stretching of the renal capsule (this can cause severe flank pain, and it's the same thing that is suspected to be causing pain with IgAN and other kidney diseases, although probably to a much lesser degree). Or the pain can be from wherever the stones are lodged in the ureter. I'm lucky I've never really had bad flank pain, but I sympathize with those who do. Sympathize is about all anyone can do, including the doctors, because non-steroidal painkillers aren't likely to be prescribed for continuous use in the presence of chronic kidney disease. Pierre PS I've heard people actually scream in pain from stones, but so far, I haven't heard any from IgAN. Of course, I may not have been at the right place at the right time ---------- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.209 / Virus Database: 261.5.4 - Release Date: 26/12/2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 Yeah my father was a typical Scot - bigger than me - fairly muscular from being a carpenter and a Man's Man - yet it reduced him to his knees when he had it - nasty! Dave Re: Re: Symptoms? The pain of pancreatitis is as bad as or worse than labor pains! Worst I have ever felt in my entire life. There is no mistaking that pain at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 That's ok - you're a lot closer to perfect than I ;o) Re: Re: Symptoms? Sorry Dave, I meant ! Can I plead to fuzzy thinking with this terrible flu bug? :-) If not, then I guess I will be left with no other choice than to admit I am human and make mistakes :-) so much for being perfect :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 Dave, Yes I have discussed the pain after eating but they don't seem to care.This is not the only pain.I feel like I have softballs shoved in my flank area.Since my kidneys are 3 centimeters larger from the swelling they think that they rubbing other areas inside. I have not had an ultrasound to look at my kidneys for 5 years.They may be more enlarged since then. The only way to obtain pain meds was to go to the pain clinic and let them try other methods first. A TENS unit and nerve blocks did not help.Having to live with pain sucks!! > Thanks for that , I will do - I think also ... I think it was Pierre who said ... when you are newly diagnosed with a chronic illness, you listen more and notice every ache and pain around - and automatically try and associate it. I think this is absolutely correct for me at the moment, whereas before , I would get the odd niggle here and there - age is catching up on me!! - but I wouldn't really pay any heed to it. Paranoia perhaps? *looks over shoulder* > > The pain you describe just after you've eaten seem a strange one to be related to IgAN - I assume you've discussed with your Doc? > > Dave > Re: Symptoms? > > > > Dave... > > I have had Igan for 28 years or so I have to deal with kidney (flank) > pain everyday.My pain is severe most of the time.Everytime I eat the > sharp stabbing pains start.Some of the sharp pains can take my breath > away.My kidneys are 3 centimeters larger than normal and may have > something to do with my pain.Playing golf or other activities raises > the pain levels too! I have tried 2 nerve blocks (numbing solution > injected into spinal area) to try and block the pain,with no success. > I have been taking pain meds (Lortab) for 8 years 4 times a day. > Without it I would not be able to function. > My job requires me to work shift work..3 weeks days--3 weeks > nights.This is very hard on my system especially my kidneys. > This pain is Igan related but any other pain that you spoke of > should not be. I cannot complain though because I am still NOT on > dialysis.I would have the other pain you have checked out. > I hope this helps. > > > > ---------- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 7.0.209 / Virus Database: 261.5.4 - Release Date: 26/12/2003 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 Dave, Yes I have discussed the pain after eating but they don't seem to care.This is not the only pain.I feel like I have softballs shoved in my flank area.Since my kidneys are 3 centimeters larger from the swelling they think that they rubbing other areas inside. I have not had an ultrasound to look at my kidneys for 5 years.They may be more enlarged since then. The only way to obtain pain meds was to go to the pain clinic and let them try other methods first. A TENS unit and nerve blocks did not help.Having to live with pain sucks!! > Thanks for that , I will do - I think also ... I think it was Pierre who said ... when you are newly diagnosed with a chronic illness, you listen more and notice every ache and pain around - and automatically try and associate it. I think this is absolutely correct for me at the moment, whereas before , I would get the odd niggle here and there - age is catching up on me!! - but I wouldn't really pay any heed to it. Paranoia perhaps? *looks over shoulder* > > The pain you describe just after you've eaten seem a strange one to be related to IgAN - I assume you've discussed with your Doc? > > Dave > Re: Symptoms? > > > > Dave... > > I have had Igan for 28 years or so I have to deal with kidney (flank) > pain everyday.My pain is severe most of the time.Everytime I eat the > sharp stabbing pains start.Some of the sharp pains can take my breath > away.My kidneys are 3 centimeters larger than normal and may have > something to do with my pain.Playing golf or other activities raises > the pain levels too! I have tried 2 nerve blocks (numbing solution > injected into spinal area) to try and block the pain,with no success. > I have been taking pain meds (Lortab) for 8 years 4 times a day. > Without it I would not be able to function. > My job requires me to work shift work..3 weeks days--3 weeks > nights.This is very hard on my system especially my kidneys. > This pain is Igan related but any other pain that you spoke of > should not be. I cannot complain though because I am still NOT on > dialysis.I would have the other pain you have checked out. > I hope this helps. > > > > ---------- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 7.0.209 / Virus Database: 261.5.4 - Release Date: 26/12/2003 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 Hi , I can't even imagine living with pain and I'm sorry you have to! I'm a new hand at all this stuff but I think if I had symptoms " they " didn't care about, I'd try and make them care lol - I'm sure you've done this too - I guess when it's something not usual to the normal IgAN Symptoms though, would make me more determined to try and find a cause? Dave Re: Symptoms? > > > > Dave... > > I have had Igan for 28 years or so I have to deal with kidney (flank) > pain everyday.My pain is severe most of the time.Everytime I eat the > sharp stabbing pains start.Some of the sharp pains can take my breath > away.My kidneys are 3 centimeters larger than normal and may have > something to do with my pain.Playing golf or other activities raises > the pain levels too! I have tried 2 nerve blocks (numbing solution > injected into spinal area) to try and block the pain,with no success. > I have been taking pain meds (Lortab) for 8 years 4 times a day. > Without it I would not be able to function. > My job requires me to work shift work..3 weeks days--3 weeks > nights.This is very hard on my system especially my kidneys. > This pain is Igan related but any other pain that you spoke of > should not be. I cannot complain though because I am still NOT on > dialysis.I would have the other pain you have checked out. > I hope this helps. > > > > ---------- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 7.0.209 / Virus Database: 261.5.4 - Release Date: 26/12/2003 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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