Re: Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

[Guest guest]

Phil

Why would the age of the supervisor matter? I am one of the " older " therapists

in our profession and I would never condone the situation described. I have

supervised a number of " younger " therapists and have always valued their opinion

and settled issues based on what is best for the patient. I have also

supervised a number of " older " therapists and have never stereotyped them as

having different values because they were from the " old school " . Remember, it

is because of some of the things we " old school " therpists fought for that our

profession continues to elevate its stature in the medical community. Just my

thoughts and now I'm off for my nap!

Hotz PT

Rehab Director

Main Street Care Center

Avon Lake, Ohio

To: PTManager

From: psmythe@...

Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 13:53:17 -0500

Subject: RE: Re: Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

Sounds like your supervisor is over 65 and from the old school of thought.

Today, all of our professional therapists, OT, PT, Speech are able to behave

and provide very highly skilled care, just like a well educated professional

should in 2011, i.e., if the care needed is not skilled and does not meet

the present day guidelines of the medical industry and is found to be

inappropriate, than the referring source is notified immediately that what

ever was ordered will not be provided and why. Today's professional

therapist will only earn the much warranted respect from the medical world

if they present their arguments in a professional, well educated manner.

Don't be confrontational and defiant; be professional, educated and

confident.

P Smythe, PT

The U.P. of Michigan

Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

> >

> > Recently, there has been a conflict at my place of work in regards to

> PT

> > roles and Nursing. I was asked to give a patient a bath in the Rehab

> > Department whirlpool for dry skin. I have always been told that, if it

> > is something that Nursing can take care of (transferring a patient to

> a

> > chair, giving baths, etc...), that PTs should not get involved and

> > charge PT units for such services.

> >

> > What is this group's take on this? Does dry skin fall under the

> category

> > of " skin integrity impairment " to the point that PT should get

> involved?

> > Or should this strictly be Nursing's role?

> >

> > Thank you for your advice!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your

> discipline

> > and your location or else your message will not be approved to send to

> > the full group.

> >

> > Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat

> > to our professions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model

> > practices. The description of PTManager group includes the following:

> > " PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices

> > ONLY "

> > Messages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> >

> > PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> > Join APTA, AOTA or ASHA and participate now!

> >

> > Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> > PTManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> >

[Guest guest]

Phil

Why would the age of the supervisor matter? I am one of the " older " therapists

in our profession and I would never condone the situation described. I have

supervised a number of " younger " therapists and have always valued their opinion

and settled issues based on what is best for the patient. I have also

supervised a number of " older " therapists and have never stereotyped them as

having different values because they were from the " old school " . Remember, it

is because of some of the things we " old school " therpists fought for that our

profession continues to elevate its stature in the medical community. Just my

thoughts and now I'm off for my nap!

Hotz PT

Rehab Director

Main Street Care Center

Avon Lake, Ohio

To: PTManager

From: psmythe@...

Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 13:53:17 -0500

Subject: RE: Re: Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

Sounds like your supervisor is over 65 and from the old school of thought.

Today, all of our professional therapists, OT, PT, Speech are able to behave

and provide very highly skilled care, just like a well educated professional

should in 2011, i.e., if the care needed is not skilled and does not meet

the present day guidelines of the medical industry and is found to be

inappropriate, than the referring source is notified immediately that what

ever was ordered will not be provided and why. Today's professional

therapist will only earn the much warranted respect from the medical world

if they present their arguments in a professional, well educated manner.

Don't be confrontational and defiant; be professional, educated and

confident.

P Smythe, PT

The U.P. of Michigan

Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

> >

> > Recently, there has been a conflict at my place of work in regards to

> PT

> > roles and Nursing. I was asked to give a patient a bath in the Rehab

> > Department whirlpool for dry skin. I have always been told that, if it

> > is something that Nursing can take care of (transferring a patient to

> a

> > chair, giving baths, etc...), that PTs should not get involved and

> > charge PT units for such services.

> >

> > What is this group's take on this? Does dry skin fall under the

> category

> > of " skin integrity impairment " to the point that PT should get

> involved?

> > Or should this strictly be Nursing's role?

> >

> > Thank you for your advice!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your

> discipline

> > and your location or else your message will not be approved to send to

> > the full group.

> >

> > Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat

> > to our professions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model

> > practices. The description of PTManager group includes the following:

> > " PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices

> > ONLY "

> > Messages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> >

> > PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> > Join APTA, AOTA or ASHA and participate now!

> >

> > Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> > PTManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> >

[Guest guest]

Thank-you, MIchael, for your 2 cents!

Not all of us dinosaurs are hidebound and short-sighted. Some younger

therapists, justifiably proud of their credentials, can learn tolerance for

others and their different viewpoints. The focus should be on the patient's

needs and how to solve those needs. PTs are considered problem solvers -- that

others in health care do not phrase their requests properly to suit our own

image should not get our defenses all aflame. We old PTs suffered years and

years of " What's a PT? Oh, you do massage -right? " I am not hearing that any

more, thanks to the tremendous growth and advancement of our profession, thanks

to those who have labored in the vineyards all these years.

We need to turn what could be a most unproductive turf battle into a teaching

opportunity. Honey beats vinegar any day! That is just a life lesson -- learned

through experience.

Lucy Buckley PT

Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

> >

> > Recently, there has been a conflict at my place of work in regards to

> PT

> > roles and Nursing. I was asked to give a patient a bath in the Rehab

> > Department whirlpool for dry skin. I have always been told that, if it

> > is something that Nursing can take care of (transferring a patient to

> a

> > chair, giving baths, etc...), that PTs should not get involved and

> > charge PT units for such services.

> >

> > What is this group's take on this? Does dry skin fall under the

> category

> > of " skin integrity impairment " to the point that PT should get

> involved?

> > Or should this strictly be Nursing's role?

> >

> > Thank you for your advice!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your

> discipline

> > and your location or else your message will not be approved to send to

> > the full group.

> >

> > Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat

> > to our professions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model

> > practices. The description of PTManager group includes the following:

> > " PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices

> > ONLY "

> > Messages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> >

> > PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> > Join APTA, AOTA or ASHA and participate now!

> >

> > Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> > PTManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> >

[Guest guest]

Thank-you, MIchael, for your 2 cents!

Not all of us dinosaurs are hidebound and short-sighted. Some younger

therapists, justifiably proud of their credentials, can learn tolerance for

others and their different viewpoints. The focus should be on the patient's

needs and how to solve those needs. PTs are considered problem solvers -- that

others in health care do not phrase their requests properly to suit our own

image should not get our defenses all aflame. We old PTs suffered years and

years of " What's a PT? Oh, you do massage -right? " I am not hearing that any

more, thanks to the tremendous growth and advancement of our profession, thanks

to those who have labored in the vineyards all these years.

We need to turn what could be a most unproductive turf battle into a teaching

opportunity. Honey beats vinegar any day! That is just a life lesson -- learned

through experience.

Lucy Buckley PT

Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

> >

> > Recently, there has been a conflict at my place of work in regards to

> PT

> > roles and Nursing. I was asked to give a patient a bath in the Rehab

> > Department whirlpool for dry skin. I have always been told that, if it

> > is something that Nursing can take care of (transferring a patient to

> a

> > chair, giving baths, etc...), that PTs should not get involved and

> > charge PT units for such services.

> >

> > What is this group's take on this? Does dry skin fall under the

> category

> > of " skin integrity impairment " to the point that PT should get

> involved?

> > Or should this strictly be Nursing's role?

> >

> > Thank you for your advice!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your

> discipline

> > and your location or else your message will not be approved to send to

> > the full group.

> >

> > Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat

> > to our professions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model

> > practices. The description of PTManager group includes the following:

> > " PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices

> > ONLY "

> > Messages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> >

> > PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> > Join APTA, AOTA or ASHA and participate now!

> >

> > Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> > PTManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> >

[Guest guest]

Thank-you, MIchael, for your 2 cents!

Not all of us dinosaurs are hidebound and short-sighted. Some younger

therapists, justifiably proud of their credentials, can learn tolerance for

others and their different viewpoints. The focus should be on the patient's

needs and how to solve those needs. PTs are considered problem solvers -- that

others in health care do not phrase their requests properly to suit our own

image should not get our defenses all aflame. We old PTs suffered years and

years of " What's a PT? Oh, you do massage -right? " I am not hearing that any

more, thanks to the tremendous growth and advancement of our profession, thanks

to those who have labored in the vineyards all these years.

We need to turn what could be a most unproductive turf battle into a teaching

opportunity. Honey beats vinegar any day! That is just a life lesson -- learned

through experience.

Lucy Buckley PT

Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

> >

> > Recently, there has been a conflict at my place of work in regards to

> PT

> > roles and Nursing. I was asked to give a patient a bath in the Rehab

> > Department whirlpool for dry skin. I have always been told that, if it

> > is something that Nursing can take care of (transferring a patient to

> a

> > chair, giving baths, etc...), that PTs should not get involved and

> > charge PT units for such services.

> >

> > What is this group's take on this? Does dry skin fall under the

> category

> > of " skin integrity impairment " to the point that PT should get

> involved?

> > Or should this strictly be Nursing's role?

> >

> > Thank you for your advice!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your

> discipline

> > and your location or else your message will not be approved to send to

> > the full group.

> >

> > Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat

> > to our professions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model

> > practices. The description of PTManager group includes the following:

> > " PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices

> > ONLY "

> > Messages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> >

> > PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> > Join APTA, AOTA or ASHA and participate now!

> >

> > Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> > PTManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> >

[Guest guest]

, time for a new job.  Your license is portable.  Explore the world.

 Recall, you also have an obligation to report fraud.

Alan Petrazzi, MPT, MPMRehab DirectorPittsburgh, PA 

Subject: RE: Re: Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

To: ptmanager

Date: Thursday, February 3, 2011, 12:33 AM

 

Phil

Why would the age of the supervisor matter? I am one of the " older " therapists

in our profession and I would never condone the situation described. I have

supervised a number of " younger " therapists and have always valued their opinion

and settled issues based on what is best for the patient. I have also

supervised a number of " older " therapists and have never stereotyped them as

having different values because they were from the " old school " . Remember, it

is because of some of the things we " old school " therpists fought for that our

profession continues to elevate its stature in the medical community. Just my

thoughts and now I'm off for my nap!

Hotz PT

Rehab Director

Main Street Care Center

Avon Lake, Ohio

To: PTManager

From: psmythe@...

Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 13:53:17 -0500

Subject: RE: Re: Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

Sounds like your supervisor is over 65 and from the old school of thought.

Today, all of our professional therapists, OT, PT, Speech are able to behave

and provide very highly skilled care, just like a well educated professional

should in 2011, i.e., if the care needed is not skilled and does not meet

the present day guidelines of the medical industry and is found to be

inappropriate, than the referring source is notified immediately that what

ever was ordered will not be provided and why. Today's professional

therapist will only earn the much warranted respect from the medical world

if they present their arguments in a professional, well educated manner.

Don't be confrontational and defiant; be professional, educated and

confident.

P Smythe, PT

The U.P. of Michigan

Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

> >

> > Recently, there has been a conflict at my place of work in regards to

> PT

> > roles and Nursing. I was asked to give a patient a bath in the Rehab

> > Department whirlpool for dry skin. I have always been told that, if it

> > is something that Nursing can take care of (transferring a patient to

> a

> > chair, giving baths, etc...), that PTs should not get involved and

> > charge PT units for such services.

> >

> > What is this group's take on this? Does dry skin fall under the

> category

> > of " skin integrity impairment " to the point that PT should get

> involved?

> > Or should this strictly be Nursing's role?

> >

> > Thank you for your advice!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your

> discipline

> > and your location or else your message will not be approved to send to

> > the full group.

> >

> > Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat

> > to our professions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model

> > practices. The description of PTManager group includes the following:

> > " PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices

> > ONLY "

> > Messages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> >

> > PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> > Join APTA, AOTA or ASHA and participate now!

> >

> > Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> > PTManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> >

[Guest guest]

, time for a new job.  Your license is portable.  Explore the world.

 Recall, you also have an obligation to report fraud.

Alan Petrazzi, MPT, MPMRehab DirectorPittsburgh, PA 

Subject: RE: Re: Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

To: ptmanager

Date: Thursday, February 3, 2011, 12:33 AM

 

Phil

Why would the age of the supervisor matter? I am one of the " older " therapists

in our profession and I would never condone the situation described. I have

supervised a number of " younger " therapists and have always valued their opinion

and settled issues based on what is best for the patient. I have also

supervised a number of " older " therapists and have never stereotyped them as

having different values because they were from the " old school " . Remember, it

is because of some of the things we " old school " therpists fought for that our

profession continues to elevate its stature in the medical community. Just my

thoughts and now I'm off for my nap!

Hotz PT

Rehab Director

Main Street Care Center

Avon Lake, Ohio

To: PTManager

From: psmythe@...

Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 13:53:17 -0500

Subject: RE: Re: Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

Sounds like your supervisor is over 65 and from the old school of thought.

Today, all of our professional therapists, OT, PT, Speech are able to behave

and provide very highly skilled care, just like a well educated professional

should in 2011, i.e., if the care needed is not skilled and does not meet

the present day guidelines of the medical industry and is found to be

inappropriate, than the referring source is notified immediately that what

ever was ordered will not be provided and why. Today's professional

therapist will only earn the much warranted respect from the medical world

if they present their arguments in a professional, well educated manner.

Don't be confrontational and defiant; be professional, educated and

confident.

P Smythe, PT

The U.P. of Michigan

Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

> >

> > Recently, there has been a conflict at my place of work in regards to

> PT

> > roles and Nursing. I was asked to give a patient a bath in the Rehab

> > Department whirlpool for dry skin. I have always been told that, if it

> > is something that Nursing can take care of (transferring a patient to

> a

> > chair, giving baths, etc...), that PTs should not get involved and

> > charge PT units for such services.

> >

> > What is this group's take on this? Does dry skin fall under the

> category

> > of " skin integrity impairment " to the point that PT should get

> involved?

> > Or should this strictly be Nursing's role?

> >

> > Thank you for your advice!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your

> discipline

> > and your location or else your message will not be approved to send to

> > the full group.

> >

> > Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat

> > to our professions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model

> > practices. The description of PTManager group includes the following:

> > " PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices

> > ONLY "

> > Messages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> >

> > PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> > Join APTA, AOTA or ASHA and participate now!

> >

> > Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> > PTManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> >

[Guest guest]

, time for a new job.  Your license is portable.  Explore the world.

 Recall, you also have an obligation to report fraud.

Alan Petrazzi, MPT, MPMRehab DirectorPittsburgh, PA 

Subject: RE: Re: Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

To: ptmanager

Date: Thursday, February 3, 2011, 12:33 AM

 

Phil

Why would the age of the supervisor matter? I am one of the " older " therapists

in our profession and I would never condone the situation described. I have

supervised a number of " younger " therapists and have always valued their opinion

and settled issues based on what is best for the patient. I have also

supervised a number of " older " therapists and have never stereotyped them as

having different values because they were from the " old school " . Remember, it

is because of some of the things we " old school " therpists fought for that our

profession continues to elevate its stature in the medical community. Just my

thoughts and now I'm off for my nap!

Hotz PT

Rehab Director

Main Street Care Center

Avon Lake, Ohio

To: PTManager

From: psmythe@...

Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 13:53:17 -0500

Subject: RE: Re: Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

Sounds like your supervisor is over 65 and from the old school of thought.

Today, all of our professional therapists, OT, PT, Speech are able to behave

and provide very highly skilled care, just like a well educated professional

should in 2011, i.e., if the care needed is not skilled and does not meet

the present day guidelines of the medical industry and is found to be

inappropriate, than the referring source is notified immediately that what

ever was ordered will not be provided and why. Today's professional

therapist will only earn the much warranted respect from the medical world

if they present their arguments in a professional, well educated manner.

Don't be confrontational and defiant; be professional, educated and

confident.

P Smythe, PT

The U.P. of Michigan

Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

> >

> > Recently, there has been a conflict at my place of work in regards to

> PT

> > roles and Nursing. I was asked to give a patient a bath in the Rehab

> > Department whirlpool for dry skin. I have always been told that, if it

> > is something that Nursing can take care of (transferring a patient to

> a

> > chair, giving baths, etc...), that PTs should not get involved and

> > charge PT units for such services.

> >

> > What is this group's take on this? Does dry skin fall under the

> category

> > of " skin integrity impairment " to the point that PT should get

> involved?

> > Or should this strictly be Nursing's role?

> >

> > Thank you for your advice!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your

> discipline

> > and your location or else your message will not be approved to send to

> > the full group.

> >

> > Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat

> > to our professions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model

> > practices. The description of PTManager group includes the following:

> > " PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices

> > ONLY "

> > Messages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> >

> > PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> > Join APTA, AOTA or ASHA and participate now!

> >

> > Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> > PTManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

I know you have heard some great advise from some highly respected therapists in

our profession, so I am not going to repeat what they have said except for one

thing.  I would strongly advise that you report the fraudulant billing incident

to first and foremost the patient's insurer (to mitigate any federal or state

criminal actions against you for failing to report fraud) and with your state

Board .  You have already confessed to knowing about this fraudulant activity

on

a widely read forum.  You must protect yourself.

Good luck,

Sumesh , PT

________________________________

To: PTManager

Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 11:24:37 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

 

Have you figured out the cost to the facility of having a patient brought to

your whirlpool, have it prepared, then put in and then cleaned then returned to

the room versus a nurse or CNA accompanying a person to the shower room on the

floor? If it is a a medicare patient you should also use the conditions of

partiicaption that say what we do has to be skilled and cannot be done by

others, otherwise it cannot be put in as a PT cost for that inpatient episode of

care.

Jim Dunleavy PT, MS

Trinitas Regional Medical Center

Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

> >

> > Recently, there has been a conflict at my place of work in regards to PT

> > roles and Nursing. I was asked to give a patient a bath in the Rehab

> > Department whirlpool for dry skin. I have always been told that, if it

> > is something that Nursing can take care of (transferring a patient to a

> > chair, giving baths, etc...), that PTs should not get involved and

> > charge PT units for such services.

> >

> > What is this group's take on this? Does dry skin fall under the category

> > of " skin integrity impairment " to the point that PT should get involved?

> > Or should this strictly be Nursing's role?

> >

> > Thank you for your advice!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline

> > and your location or else your message will not be approved to send to

> > the full group.

> >

> > Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat

> > to our professions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model

> > practices. The description of PTManager group includes the following:

> > " PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices

> > ONLY "

> > Messages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> >

> > PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> > Join APTA, AOTA or ASHA and participate now!

> >

> > Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> > PTManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

I know you have heard some great advise from some highly respected therapists in

our profession, so I am not going to repeat what they have said except for one

thing.  I would strongly advise that you report the fraudulant billing incident

to first and foremost the patient's insurer (to mitigate any federal or state

criminal actions against you for failing to report fraud) and with your state

Board .  You have already confessed to knowing about this fraudulant activity

on

a widely read forum.  You must protect yourself.

Good luck,

Sumesh , PT

________________________________

To: PTManager

Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 11:24:37 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

 

Have you figured out the cost to the facility of having a patient brought to

your whirlpool, have it prepared, then put in and then cleaned then returned to

the room versus a nurse or CNA accompanying a person to the shower room on the

floor? If it is a a medicare patient you should also use the conditions of

partiicaption that say what we do has to be skilled and cannot be done by

others, otherwise it cannot be put in as a PT cost for that inpatient episode of

care.

Jim Dunleavy PT, MS

Trinitas Regional Medical Center

Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

> >

> > Recently, there has been a conflict at my place of work in regards to PT

> > roles and Nursing. I was asked to give a patient a bath in the Rehab

> > Department whirlpool for dry skin. I have always been told that, if it

> > is something that Nursing can take care of (transferring a patient to a

> > chair, giving baths, etc...), that PTs should not get involved and

> > charge PT units for such services.

> >

> > What is this group's take on this? Does dry skin fall under the category

> > of " skin integrity impairment " to the point that PT should get involved?

> > Or should this strictly be Nursing's role?

> >

> > Thank you for your advice!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline

> > and your location or else your message will not be approved to send to

> > the full group.

> >

> > Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat

> > to our professions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model

> > practices. The description of PTManager group includes the following:

> > " PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices

> > ONLY "

> > Messages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> >

> > PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> > Join APTA, AOTA or ASHA and participate now!

> >

> > Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> > PTManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

I know you have heard some great advise from some highly respected therapists in

our profession, so I am not going to repeat what they have said except for one

thing.  I would strongly advise that you report the fraudulant billing incident

to first and foremost the patient's insurer (to mitigate any federal or state

criminal actions against you for failing to report fraud) and with your state

Board .  You have already confessed to knowing about this fraudulant activity

on

a widely read forum.  You must protect yourself.

Good luck,

Sumesh , PT

________________________________

To: PTManager

Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 11:24:37 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

 

Have you figured out the cost to the facility of having a patient brought to

your whirlpool, have it prepared, then put in and then cleaned then returned to

the room versus a nurse or CNA accompanying a person to the shower room on the

floor? If it is a a medicare patient you should also use the conditions of

partiicaption that say what we do has to be skilled and cannot be done by

others, otherwise it cannot be put in as a PT cost for that inpatient episode of

care.

Jim Dunleavy PT, MS

Trinitas Regional Medical Center

Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

> >

> > Recently, there has been a conflict at my place of work in regards to PT

> > roles and Nursing. I was asked to give a patient a bath in the Rehab

> > Department whirlpool for dry skin. I have always been told that, if it

> > is something that Nursing can take care of (transferring a patient to a

> > chair, giving baths, etc...), that PTs should not get involved and

> > charge PT units for such services.

> >

> > What is this group's take on this? Does dry skin fall under the category

> > of " skin integrity impairment " to the point that PT should get involved?

> > Or should this strictly be Nursing's role?

> >

> > Thank you for your advice!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline

> > and your location or else your message will not be approved to send to

> > the full group.

> >

> > Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat

> > to our professions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model

> > practices. The description of PTManager group includes the following:

> > " PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices

> > ONLY "

> > Messages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> >

> > PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> > Join APTA, AOTA or ASHA and participate now!

> >

> > Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> > PTManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> >

[Guest guest]

I actually find the comments of regarding the age of the supervisor to be rather

offensive. Many of us have worked very hard for many years to bring the

profession up to the standards we hold today. We are the foundation that the

younger therapists stand on today. Do you for one minute think you would be

where you are today and be able to collaboratively work with the other members

of the medical profession if we the " older " generation had not provided you with

the tools to do so.

Please, if you learn nothing else from this email thread that it really does not

matter how old you are or whether you are a PT, MSPT or DPT to hold strong

values and treat with integrity. If you are unable to stand up for what you know

is right what difference does it make what letters follow your name.

No matter how old you are you need to provide evidence based excellent care with

quality outcomes to be regarded as a true professional. Otherwise you are

merely an overpaid technician, and you are not doing justice to our profession.

Engelberg, PT

Manager, Outpatient Rehabilitation

Orlando Health

321 841-6581

stephanie.engelberg@...

Visit us on the web at

http://www.orlandohealth.com/rehab<http://www.orlandohelath.com/rehab>

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of

Lucy Buckley

Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 8:05 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Re: Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

Thank-you, MIchael, for your 2 cents!

Not all of us dinosaurs are hidebound and short-sighted. Some younger

therapists, justifiably proud of their credentials, can learn tolerance for

others and their different viewpoints. The focus should be on the patient's

needs and how to solve those needs. PTs are considered problem solvers -- that

others in health care do not phrase their requests properly to suit our own

image should not get our defenses all aflame. We old PTs suffered years and

years of " What's a PT? Oh, you do massage -right? " I am not hearing that any

more, thanks to the tremendous growth and advancement of our profession, thanks

to those who have labored in the vineyards all these years.

We need to turn what could be a most unproductive turf battle into a teaching

opportunity. Honey beats vinegar any day! That is just a life lesson -- learned

through experience.

Lucy Buckley PT

Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

> >

> > Recently, there has been a conflict at my place of work in regards to

> PT

> > roles and Nursing. I was asked to give a patient a bath in the Rehab

> > Department whirlpool for dry skin. I have always been told that, if it

> > is something that Nursing can take care of (transferring a patient to

> a

> > chair, giving baths, etc...), that PTs should not get involved and

> > charge PT units for such services.

> >

> > What is this group's take on this? Does dry skin fall under the

> category

> > of " skin integrity impairment " to the point that PT should get

> involved?

> > Or should this strictly be Nursing's role?

> >

> > Thank you for your advice!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your

> discipline

> > and your location or else your message will not be approved to send to

> > the full group.

> >

> > Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat

> > to our professions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model

> > practices. The description of PTManager group includes the following:

> > " PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices

> > ONLY "

> > Messages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> >

> > PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> > Join APTA, AOTA or ASHA and participate now!

> >

> > Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> > PTManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> >

[Guest guest]

I actually find the comments of regarding the age of the supervisor to be rather

offensive. Many of us have worked very hard for many years to bring the

profession up to the standards we hold today. We are the foundation that the

younger therapists stand on today. Do you for one minute think you would be

where you are today and be able to collaboratively work with the other members

of the medical profession if we the " older " generation had not provided you with

the tools to do so.

Please, if you learn nothing else from this email thread that it really does not

matter how old you are or whether you are a PT, MSPT or DPT to hold strong

values and treat with integrity. If you are unable to stand up for what you know

is right what difference does it make what letters follow your name.

No matter how old you are you need to provide evidence based excellent care with

quality outcomes to be regarded as a true professional. Otherwise you are

merely an overpaid technician, and you are not doing justice to our profession.

Engelberg, PT

Manager, Outpatient Rehabilitation

Orlando Health

321 841-6581

stephanie.engelberg@...

Visit us on the web at

http://www.orlandohealth.com/rehab<http://www.orlandohelath.com/rehab>

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of

Lucy Buckley

Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 8:05 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Re: Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

Thank-you, MIchael, for your 2 cents!

Not all of us dinosaurs are hidebound and short-sighted. Some younger

therapists, justifiably proud of their credentials, can learn tolerance for

others and their different viewpoints. The focus should be on the patient's

needs and how to solve those needs. PTs are considered problem solvers -- that

others in health care do not phrase their requests properly to suit our own

image should not get our defenses all aflame. We old PTs suffered years and

years of " What's a PT? Oh, you do massage -right? " I am not hearing that any

more, thanks to the tremendous growth and advancement of our profession, thanks

to those who have labored in the vineyards all these years.

We need to turn what could be a most unproductive turf battle into a teaching

opportunity. Honey beats vinegar any day! That is just a life lesson -- learned

through experience.

Lucy Buckley PT

Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

> >

> > Recently, there has been a conflict at my place of work in regards to

> PT

> > roles and Nursing. I was asked to give a patient a bath in the Rehab

> > Department whirlpool for dry skin. I have always been told that, if it

> > is something that Nursing can take care of (transferring a patient to

> a

> > chair, giving baths, etc...), that PTs should not get involved and

> > charge PT units for such services.

> >

> > What is this group's take on this? Does dry skin fall under the

> category

> > of " skin integrity impairment " to the point that PT should get

> involved?

> > Or should this strictly be Nursing's role?

> >

> > Thank you for your advice!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your

> discipline

> > and your location or else your message will not be approved to send to

> > the full group.

> >

> > Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat

> > to our professions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model

> > practices. The description of PTManager group includes the following:

> > " PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices

> > ONLY "

> > Messages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> >

> > PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> > Join APTA, AOTA or ASHA and participate now!

> >

> > Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> > PTManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> >

[Guest guest]

I actually find the comments of regarding the age of the supervisor to be rather

offensive. Many of us have worked very hard for many years to bring the

profession up to the standards we hold today. We are the foundation that the

younger therapists stand on today. Do you for one minute think you would be

where you are today and be able to collaboratively work with the other members

of the medical profession if we the " older " generation had not provided you with

the tools to do so.

Please, if you learn nothing else from this email thread that it really does not

matter how old you are or whether you are a PT, MSPT or DPT to hold strong

values and treat with integrity. If you are unable to stand up for what you know

is right what difference does it make what letters follow your name.

No matter how old you are you need to provide evidence based excellent care with

quality outcomes to be regarded as a true professional. Otherwise you are

merely an overpaid technician, and you are not doing justice to our profession.

Engelberg, PT

Manager, Outpatient Rehabilitation

Orlando Health

321 841-6581

stephanie.engelberg@...

Visit us on the web at

http://www.orlandohealth.com/rehab<http://www.orlandohelath.com/rehab>

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of

Lucy Buckley

Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 8:05 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Re: Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

Thank-you, MIchael, for your 2 cents!

Not all of us dinosaurs are hidebound and short-sighted. Some younger

therapists, justifiably proud of their credentials, can learn tolerance for

others and their different viewpoints. The focus should be on the patient's

needs and how to solve those needs. PTs are considered problem solvers -- that

others in health care do not phrase their requests properly to suit our own

image should not get our defenses all aflame. We old PTs suffered years and

years of " What's a PT? Oh, you do massage -right? " I am not hearing that any

more, thanks to the tremendous growth and advancement of our profession, thanks

to those who have labored in the vineyards all these years.

We need to turn what could be a most unproductive turf battle into a teaching

opportunity. Honey beats vinegar any day! That is just a life lesson -- learned

through experience.

Lucy Buckley PT

Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

> >

> > Recently, there has been a conflict at my place of work in regards to

> PT

> > roles and Nursing. I was asked to give a patient a bath in the Rehab

> > Department whirlpool for dry skin. I have always been told that, if it

> > is something that Nursing can take care of (transferring a patient to

> a

> > chair, giving baths, etc...), that PTs should not get involved and

> > charge PT units for such services.

> >

> > What is this group's take on this? Does dry skin fall under the

> category

> > of " skin integrity impairment " to the point that PT should get

> involved?

> > Or should this strictly be Nursing's role?

> >

> > Thank you for your advice!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your

> discipline

> > and your location or else your message will not be approved to send to

> > the full group.

> >

> > Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat

> > to our professions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model

> > practices. The description of PTManager group includes the following:

> > " PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices

> > ONLY "

> > Messages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> >

> > PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> > Join APTA, AOTA or ASHA and participate now!

> >

> > Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> > PTManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> >

[Guest guest]

I would like to add a little more that I have not already seen addressed.

      1. did anyone really assess this poor patient?  We all have received

referrals for people too ill or perhaps terminal who were not appropriate for

therapy. If this patient expired two days after the hydrotherapy, dry skin was

the least of the problem list.

     2. If you received a formal written warning, you should write a

description

of this incident to be included in your personnel file. You have done a great

job descibing the incident in your post.

     3. If you work for a large organization or company that contracts rehab

services, I would contact the manager who your supervisor reports to. Your

supervisor many need some counseling.

                                        \

               Kathleen e,PT

                                        \

               HSA, Mosesto CA

________________________________

To: PTManager

Sent: Thu, February 3, 2011 5:14:22 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

 

Dear ,

I know you have heard some great advise from some highly respected therapists in

our profession, so I am not going to repeat what they have said except for one

thing.  I would strongly advise that you report the fraudulant billing incident

to first and foremost the patient's insurer (to mitigate any federal or state

criminal actions against you for failing to report fraud) and with your state

Board .  You have already confessed to knowing about this fraudulant activity

on

a widely read forum.  You must protect yourself.

Good luck,

Sumesh , PT

________________________________

To: PTManager

Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 11:24:37 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

 

Have you figured out the cost to the facility of having a patient brought to

your whirlpool, have it prepared, then put in and then cleaned then returned to

the room versus a nurse or CNA accompanying a person to the shower room on the

floor? If it is a a medicare patient you should also use the conditions of

partiicaption that say what we do has to be skilled and cannot be done by

others, otherwise it cannot be put in as a PT cost for that inpatient episode of

care.

Jim Dunleavy PT, MS

Trinitas Regional Medical Center

Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

> >

> > Recently, there has been a conflict at my place of work in regards to PT

> > roles and Nursing. I was asked to give a patient a bath in the Rehab

> > Department whirlpool for dry skin. I have always been told that, if it

> > is something that Nursing can take care of (transferring a patient to a

> > chair, giving baths, etc...), that PTs should not get involved and

> > charge PT units for such services.

> >

> > What is this group's take on this? Does dry skin fall under the category

> > of " skin integrity impairment " to the point that PT should get involved?

> > Or should this strictly be Nursing's role?

> >

> > Thank you for your advice!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline

> > and your location or else your message will not be approved to send to

> > the full group.

> >

> > Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat

> > to our professions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model

> > practices. The description of PTManager group includes the following:

> > " PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices

> > ONLY "

> > Messages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> >

> > PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> > Join APTA, AOTA or ASHA and participate now!

> >

> > Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> > PTManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> >

[Guest guest]

I would like to submit a cautionary note to all.

Fraud is a serious charge that ought not be presumed, assumed, divined, or

deduced, ever, from a distance. Even though discussions on list serves or

similar open forums have no legal weight, they still color situations and can

turn minds, so should be approached with due care and caution.

By saying this I do not condone fraud of course, nor avoidance of responsibility

in reporting it, but in 's case I can think of at least one possible

mitigating circumstance: " Charging " for services that result in no bill, as

could be the case for PT provided to a DRG reimbursed inpatient, would exist in

effect as merely a form of time allocation rather than a request for

reimbursement. That is merely an idea of course, but what other potentially

mitigating circumstances may exist? What about the stuff we don't know that we

don't know?

Discuss yes, and consider, and suggest, but when it comes to accusation of

crime, fairness demands restraint and consummate care.

Dave Milano, PT, Rehabilitation Director

Laurel Health System

________________________________

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of

Sumesh

Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 8:14 AM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Re: Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

Dear ,

I know you have heard some great advise from some highly respected therapists in

our profession, so I am not going to repeat what they have said except for one

thing. I would strongly advise that you report the fraudulant billing incident

to first and foremost the patient's insurer (to mitigate any federal or state

criminal actions against you for failing to report fraud) and with your state

Board . You have already confessed to knowing about this fraudulant activity on

a widely read forum. You must protect yourself.

Good luck,

Sumesh , PT

________________________________

From: Jim Dunleavy <JIMDPT@...<mailto:JIMDPT%40aol.com>>

To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 11:24:37 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

Have you figured out the cost to the facility of having a patient brought to

your whirlpool, have it prepared, then put in and then cleaned then returned to

the room versus a nurse or CNA accompanying a person to the shower room on the

floor? If it is a a medicare patient you should also use the conditions of

partiicaption that say what we do has to be skilled and cannot be done by

others, otherwise it cannot be put in as a PT cost for that inpatient episode of

care.

Jim Dunleavy PT, MS

Trinitas Regional Medical Center

Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

> >

> > Recently, there has been a conflict at my place of work in regards to PT

> > roles and Nursing. I was asked to give a patient a bath in the Rehab

> > Department whirlpool for dry skin. I have always been told that, if it

> > is something that Nursing can take care of (transferring a patient to a

> > chair, giving baths, etc...), that PTs should not get involved and

> > charge PT units for such services.

> >

> > What is this group's take on this? Does dry skin fall under the category

> > of " skin integrity impairment " to the point that PT should get involved?

> > Or should this strictly be Nursing's role?

> >

> > Thank you for your advice!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline

> > and your location or else your message will not be approved to send to

> > the full group.

> >

> > Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat

> > to our professions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model

> > practices. The description of PTManager group includes the following:

> > " PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices

> > ONLY "

> > Messages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> >

> > PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> > Join APTA, AOTA or ASHA and participate now!

> >

> > Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> > PTManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> >

[Guest guest]

Thank you all so much! Your advice has been so great!

As I have said, I was not the one who actually saw the patient. That unfortunate

duty was given to a newly-hired new grad. She ended up charging 4 Therapeutic

Activities, which only amounted to 1 of the 2 hours they spent with this

patient. Her reasoning was due to the large amounts of transferring and lifting

required. Bed--> wheelchair--> lift chair and then all of those in reverse. The

patient also had to be held up by two people in order to be cleaned (and for the

soiled surface she had been sitting on to be cleaned). Do you guys still think

these charges are fraudulent? There was no actual whirlpool charge.

Also, I have been in touch with the President of my state's Physicial Therapy

Association. He is writing a letter of commendation for me, supporting me 100%.

I am going to take this, along with my own strongly-worded statement to HR as

soon as his letter arrives and ask that my warning be withdrawn. I don't think

they will but, at least I will have it in my file in case they fire me over the

whole thing and I have to hire a lawyer for wrongful dismissal.

And, yes, I am looking for a new job. Unfortunately, there just aren't any

within driving distance for me. I don't want to move. I have a brand new home

that my husband and I built together, and my family is a short distance away.

So, I am really just trying to buy myself some time until I can find something.

I don't intend on staying at my current workplace unless they sumbit a written

apology and withdraw the warning. And, let's face it-- that probably isn't

happening!

~~

>

> > >

>

> > > , it is your clinical decision, not nursing. Your evaluation of

>

> > > the patient determines skilled therapy intervention, no one should do

>

> > > that for you.

>

> > >

>

> > > Ron Barbato PT

>

> > > Administrative Director, Rehabilitation Services

>

> > > Program Director, Cancer Support Services

>

> > > Ephraim McDowell Health

>

> > > Voice:

>

> > > Fax:

>

> > > rbarbato@

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL: This transmission may contain information

>

> > > that is privileged subject to attorney-client privilege or attorney work

>

> > > product, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable

>

> > > law. If you are not the intended recipient, then please do not read it

>

> > > and be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the

>

> > > information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is

>

> > > STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please

>

> > > immediately advise me, by reply e-mail, and delete this message and any

>

> > > attachments without retaining a copy in any form. Thank you.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

>

> > >

>

> > > Recently, there has been a conflict at my place of work in regards to PT

>

> > > roles and Nursing. I was asked to give a patient a bath in the Rehab

>

> > > Department whirlpool for dry skin. I have always been told that, if it

>

> > > is something that Nursing can take care of (transferring a patient to a

>

> > > chair, giving baths, etc...), that PTs should not get involved and

>

> > > charge PT units for such services.

>

> > >

>

> > > What is this group's take on this? Does dry skin fall under the category

>

> > > of " skin integrity impairment " to the point that PT should get involved?

>

> > > Or should this strictly be Nursing's role?

>

> > >

>

> > > Thank you for your advice!

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > ------------------------------------

>

> > >

>

> > > In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline

>

> > > and your location or else your message will not be approved to send to

>

> > > the full group.

>

> > >

>

> > > Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat

>

> > > to our professions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model

>

> > > practices. The description of PTManager group includes the following:

>

> > > " PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices

>

> > > ONLY "

>

> > > Messages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

>

> > >

>

> > > PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

>

> > > Join APTA, AOTA or ASHA and participate now!

>

> > >

>

> > > Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

>

> > > PTManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

>

> > >

[Guest guest]

,

Do you know what this means?  Maybe you ought to start your own practice.

Just a suggestion.

Sumesh

________________________________

To: PTManager

Sent: Thu, February 3, 2011 7:48:02 PM

Subject: Re: Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

 

Thank you all so much! Your advice has been so great!

As I have said, I was not the one who actually saw the patient. That unfortunate

duty was given to a newly-hired new grad. She ended up charging 4 Therapeutic

Activities, which only amounted to 1 of the 2 hours they spent with this

patient. Her reasoning was due to the large amounts of transferring and lifting

required. Bed--> wheelchair--> lift chair and then all of those in reverse. The

patient also had to be held up by two people in order to be cleaned (and for the

soiled surface she had been sitting on to be cleaned). Do you guys still think

these charges are fraudulent? There was no actual whirlpool charge.

Also, I have been in touch with the President of my state's Physicial Therapy

Association. He is writing a letter of commendation for me, supporting me 100%.

I am going to take this, along with my own strongly-worded statement to HR as

soon as his letter arrives and ask that my warning be withdrawn. I don't think

they will but, at least I will have it in my file in case they fire me over the

whole thing and I have to hire a lawyer for wrongful dismissal.

And, yes, I am looking for a new job. Unfortunately, there just aren't any

within driving distance for me. I don't want to move. I have a brand new home

that my husband and I built together, and my family is a short distance away.

So, I am really just trying to buy myself some time until I can find something.

I don't intend on staying at my current workplace unless they sumbit a written

apology and withdraw the warning. And, let's face it-- that probably isn't

happening!

~~

>

> > >

>

> > > , it is your clinical decision, not nursing. Your evaluation of

>

> > > the patient determines skilled therapy intervention, no one should do

>

> > > that for you.

>

> > >

>

> > > Ron Barbato PT

>

> > > Administrative Director, Rehabilitation Services

>

> > > Program Director, Cancer Support Services

>

> > > Ephraim McDowell Health

>

> > > Voice:

>

> > > Fax:

>

> > > rbarbato@

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL: This transmission may contain information

>

> > > that is privileged subject to attorney-client privilege or attorney work

>

> > > product, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable

>

> > > law. If you are not the intended recipient, then please do not read it

>

> > > and be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the

>

> > > information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is

>

> > > STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please

>

> > > immediately advise me, by reply e-mail, and delete this message and any

>

> > > attachments without retaining a copy in any form. Thank you.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

>

> > >

>

> > > Recently, there has been a conflict at my place of work in regards to PT

>

> > > roles and Nursing. I was asked to give a patient a bath in the Rehab

>

> > > Department whirlpool for dry skin. I have always been told that, if it

>

> > > is something that Nursing can take care of (transferring a patient to a

>

> > > chair, giving baths, etc...), that PTs should not get involved and

>

> > > charge PT units for such services.

>

> > >

>

> > > What is this group's take on this? Does dry skin fall under the category

>

> > > of " skin integrity impairment " to the point that PT should get involved?

>

> > > Or should this strictly be Nursing's role?

>

> > >

>

> > > Thank you for your advice!

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > ------------------------------------

>

> > >

>

> > > In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline

>

> > > and your location or else your message will not be approved to send to

>

> > > the full group.

>

> > >

>

> > > Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat

>

> > > to our professions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model

>

> > > practices. The description of PTManager group includes the following:

>

> > > " PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices

>

> > > ONLY "

>

> > > Messages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

>

> > >

>

> > > PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

>

> > > Join APTA, AOTA or ASHA and participate now!

>

> > >

>

> > > Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

>

> > > PTManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

>

> > >

[Guest guest]

,

Do you know what this means?  Maybe you ought to start your own practice.

Just a suggestion.

Sumesh

________________________________

To: PTManager

Sent: Thu, February 3, 2011 7:48:02 PM

Subject: Re: Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

 

Thank you all so much! Your advice has been so great!

As I have said, I was not the one who actually saw the patient. That unfortunate

duty was given to a newly-hired new grad. She ended up charging 4 Therapeutic

Activities, which only amounted to 1 of the 2 hours they spent with this

patient. Her reasoning was due to the large amounts of transferring and lifting

required. Bed--> wheelchair--> lift chair and then all of those in reverse. The

patient also had to be held up by two people in order to be cleaned (and for the

soiled surface she had been sitting on to be cleaned). Do you guys still think

these charges are fraudulent? There was no actual whirlpool charge.

Also, I have been in touch with the President of my state's Physicial Therapy

Association. He is writing a letter of commendation for me, supporting me 100%.

I am going to take this, along with my own strongly-worded statement to HR as

soon as his letter arrives and ask that my warning be withdrawn. I don't think

they will but, at least I will have it in my file in case they fire me over the

whole thing and I have to hire a lawyer for wrongful dismissal.

And, yes, I am looking for a new job. Unfortunately, there just aren't any

within driving distance for me. I don't want to move. I have a brand new home

that my husband and I built together, and my family is a short distance away.

So, I am really just trying to buy myself some time until I can find something.

I don't intend on staying at my current workplace unless they sumbit a written

apology and withdraw the warning. And, let's face it-- that probably isn't

happening!

~~

>

> > >

>

> > > , it is your clinical decision, not nursing. Your evaluation of

>

> > > the patient determines skilled therapy intervention, no one should do

>

> > > that for you.

>

> > >

>

> > > Ron Barbato PT

>

> > > Administrative Director, Rehabilitation Services

>

> > > Program Director, Cancer Support Services

>

> > > Ephraim McDowell Health

>

> > > Voice:

>

> > > Fax:

>

> > > rbarbato@

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL: This transmission may contain information

>

> > > that is privileged subject to attorney-client privilege or attorney work

>

> > > product, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable

>

> > > law. If you are not the intended recipient, then please do not read it

>

> > > and be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the

>

> > > information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is

>

> > > STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please

>

> > > immediately advise me, by reply e-mail, and delete this message and any

>

> > > attachments without retaining a copy in any form. Thank you.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > Some help please- Nursing vs. PT!

>

> > >

>

> > > Recently, there has been a conflict at my place of work in regards to PT

>

> > > roles and Nursing. I was asked to give a patient a bath in the Rehab

>

> > > Department whirlpool for dry skin. I have always been told that, if it

>

> > > is something that Nursing can take care of (transferring a patient to a

>

> > > chair, giving baths, etc...), that PTs should not get involved and

>

> > > charge PT units for such services.

>

> > >

>

> > > What is this group's take on this? Does dry skin fall under the category

>

> > > of " skin integrity impairment " to the point that PT should get involved?

>

> > > Or should this strictly be Nursing's role?

>

> > >

>

> > > Thank you for your advice!

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > ------------------------------------

>

> > >

>

> > > In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline

>

> > > and your location or else your message will not be approved to send to

>

> > > the full group.

>

> > >

>

> > > Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat

>

> > > to our professions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model

>

> > > practices. The description of PTManager group includes the following:

>

> > > " PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices

>

> > > ONLY "

>

> > > Messages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

>

> > >

>

> > > PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

>

> > > Join APTA, AOTA or ASHA and participate now!

>

> > >

>

> > > Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

>

> > > PTManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

>

> > >

[Guest guest]

What I see missing in this conversation thread is the focus on the

patient. As a manager, I am acutely aware of the need to watch

productivity. However, in this case, I would defend the staff member's

decreased productivity since this appears to be a non-billable service.

Physical Therapists, Occupational Therapists, and Speech Language

Pathologists are all in unique positions within the acute care setting.

We are the experts and need to not let our egos get in the way of

providing the highest quality of care focused on the patient needs, not

only what is billable. It is just as unethical to make a determination

of a care plan based upon payer source as it is to bill fraudulently.

Greg Hamilton, P.T.

Director Inpatient Rehabilitation Services

St. 's Hospital

o.

Proclaiming God's healing presence

through our exceptional healthcare.