Guest guest Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Hello, Would it be possible that I could also get a copy of your letter. I have also had difficulty collecting on these types of patients. I have felt that we are held hostage by the attorneys and would like be able to fight them at their own game. Thanks, Chip Gilbert Owner Hand & Upper Extremity Rehabilitation Arlington, TX > > > No secret to it. You just gotta stick to it. > I attached and sent to you and Ken. Hope it helps. > > BTW....the attorneys hate it and you may lose some cases but that's > okay. Their letters leave you hanging in the wind. > > Matt Capo, PT > Accelerated Physical Therapy and Occupational Health, Inc. > Bay St. Louis and Diamondhead, Mississippi > > Attorney Lien Cases > > > > Â > > For those of you who take attorney lien cases, what is your average > > reimbursement per visit once the case settles? What is your bottom > amount that > > you try to achieve? What have been some of your barriers in settling > a case with > > attorneys? If you would prefer, you can email me directly at rick@... > > > > Thank you in advance. > > > > Rick Gawenda, PT > > Director of Finance > > Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Hello, Would it be possible that I could also get a copy of your letter. I have also had difficulty collecting on these types of patients. I have felt that we are held hostage by the attorneys and would like be able to fight them at their own game. Thanks, Chip Gilbert Owner Hand & Upper Extremity Rehabilitation Arlington, TX > > > No secret to it. You just gotta stick to it. > I attached and sent to you and Ken. Hope it helps. > > BTW....the attorneys hate it and you may lose some cases but that's > okay. Their letters leave you hanging in the wind. > > Matt Capo, PT > Accelerated Physical Therapy and Occupational Health, Inc. > Bay St. Louis and Diamondhead, Mississippi > > Attorney Lien Cases > > > > Â > > For those of you who take attorney lien cases, what is your average > > reimbursement per visit once the case settles? What is your bottom > amount that > > you try to achieve? What have been some of your barriers in settling > a case with > > attorneys? If you would prefer, you can email me directly at rick@... > > > > Thank you in advance. > > > > Rick Gawenda, PT > > Director of Finance > > Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 If I may so boldly say, we “all†have such challenges and end up typically being “abused†by the same “perpetratorsâ€. Why not post such letter to the entire list serve and allow it to be re-posted every and elsewhere, where other colleagues can make use of it. What helps the class helps the individual. When we manage to see each other/PT as the way to a better/friendlier “physical therapist†world/society, the sooner we will correct the problems that affect us collectively. The times are not PT friendly no matter which direction you look. I would love to paste the letter available to all PTs in private practice in Florida. It will help the ones that need it. It may bring discussions that can eventually improve the original letter etc etc. If given permission I would post it on the Florida PTPP facebook page. Think about it. Thank you. Armin Loges, PT Tampa, FL From: Chip Gilbert Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 5:55 PM To: PTManager Subject: Re: Re: Attorney Lien Cases Hello, Would it be possible that I could also get a copy of your letter. I have also had difficulty collecting on these types of patients. I have felt that we are held hostage by the attorneys and would like be able to fight them at their own game. Thanks, Chip Gilbert Owner Hand & Upper Extremity Rehabilitation Arlington, TX On 3/11/2011 12:35 PM, mailto:acceleratedptbsl%40aol.com wrote: > > > No secret to it. You just gotta stick to it. > I attached and sent to you and Ken. Hope it helps. > > BTW....the attorneys hate it and you may lose some cases but that's > okay. Their letters leave you hanging in the wind. > > Matt Capo, PT > Accelerated Physical Therapy and Occupational Health, Inc. > Bay St. Louis and Diamondhead, Mississippi > > Attorney Lien Cases > > > >  > > For those of you who take attorney lien cases, what is your average > > reimbursement per visit once the case settles? What is your bottom > amount that > > you try to achieve? What have been some of your barriers in settling > a case with > > attorneys? If you would prefer, you can email me directly at rick@... > > > > Thank you in advance. > > > > Rick Gawenda, PT > > Director of Finance > > Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 If I may so boldly say, we “all†have such challenges and end up typically being “abused†by the same “perpetratorsâ€. Why not post such letter to the entire list serve and allow it to be re-posted every and elsewhere, where other colleagues can make use of it. What helps the class helps the individual. When we manage to see each other/PT as the way to a better/friendlier “physical therapist†world/society, the sooner we will correct the problems that affect us collectively. The times are not PT friendly no matter which direction you look. I would love to paste the letter available to all PTs in private practice in Florida. It will help the ones that need it. It may bring discussions that can eventually improve the original letter etc etc. If given permission I would post it on the Florida PTPP facebook page. Think about it. Thank you. Armin Loges, PT Tampa, FL From: Chip Gilbert Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 5:55 PM To: PTManager Subject: Re: Re: Attorney Lien Cases Hello, Would it be possible that I could also get a copy of your letter. I have also had difficulty collecting on these types of patients. I have felt that we are held hostage by the attorneys and would like be able to fight them at their own game. Thanks, Chip Gilbert Owner Hand & Upper Extremity Rehabilitation Arlington, TX On 3/11/2011 12:35 PM, mailto:acceleratedptbsl%40aol.com wrote: > > > No secret to it. You just gotta stick to it. > I attached and sent to you and Ken. Hope it helps. > > BTW....the attorneys hate it and you may lose some cases but that's > okay. Their letters leave you hanging in the wind. > > Matt Capo, PT > Accelerated Physical Therapy and Occupational Health, Inc. > Bay St. Louis and Diamondhead, Mississippi > > Attorney Lien Cases > > > >  > > For those of you who take attorney lien cases, what is your average > > reimbursement per visit once the case settles? What is your bottom > amount that > > you try to achieve? What have been some of your barriers in settling > a case with > > attorneys? If you would prefer, you can email me directly at rick@... > > > > Thank you in advance. > > > > Rick Gawenda, PT > > Director of Finance > > Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 If I may so boldly say, we “all†have such challenges and end up typically being “abused†by the same “perpetratorsâ€. Why not post such letter to the entire list serve and allow it to be re-posted every and elsewhere, where other colleagues can make use of it. What helps the class helps the individual. When we manage to see each other/PT as the way to a better/friendlier “physical therapist†world/society, the sooner we will correct the problems that affect us collectively. The times are not PT friendly no matter which direction you look. I would love to paste the letter available to all PTs in private practice in Florida. It will help the ones that need it. It may bring discussions that can eventually improve the original letter etc etc. If given permission I would post it on the Florida PTPP facebook page. Think about it. Thank you. Armin Loges, PT Tampa, FL From: Chip Gilbert Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 5:55 PM To: PTManager Subject: Re: Re: Attorney Lien Cases Hello, Would it be possible that I could also get a copy of your letter. I have also had difficulty collecting on these types of patients. I have felt that we are held hostage by the attorneys and would like be able to fight them at their own game. Thanks, Chip Gilbert Owner Hand & Upper Extremity Rehabilitation Arlington, TX On 3/11/2011 12:35 PM, mailto:acceleratedptbsl%40aol.com wrote: > > > No secret to it. You just gotta stick to it. > I attached and sent to you and Ken. Hope it helps. > > BTW....the attorneys hate it and you may lose some cases but that's > okay. Their letters leave you hanging in the wind. > > Matt Capo, PT > Accelerated Physical Therapy and Occupational Health, Inc. > Bay St. Louis and Diamondhead, Mississippi > > Attorney Lien Cases > > > >  > > For those of you who take attorney lien cases, what is your average > > reimbursement per visit once the case settles? What is your bottom > amount that > > you try to achieve? What have been some of your barriers in settling > a case with > > attorneys? If you would prefer, you can email me directly at rick@... > > > > Thank you in advance. > > > > Rick Gawenda, PT > > Director of Finance > > Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Just a reminder that files can be uploaded at PTManagerBLOG.com where everyone can get them. Kovacek > > > Hi all > > Since 1995, we have worked with attorney liens from day 1. > > At first, we implemented a $10 copay for their visits. This was not very successful. Most of the patients felt that the accident wasn't their fault and they shouldn't have to pay, however we did have some who would pay it and those folks proved to all be honest and hardworking folks that we ultimately collected on their settled case from. > > We stopped that policy not too long later. We then were given a copy of a lien from a local chiropractor that we still use it's foundation to this day. The language discusses that our lien shall not be subject to the settlement, shall not be placed on a bankruptcy proceeding, and that we will be charging 18% APR interest after 90 days on the balance. The patient has a signature line and then there is a blurb at the bottom that basically has some CA legal code listed talking about the attorney needs to abide by the patient's aforementioned request or be subject to punitive measures themselves. > > Over the years, we have had some attorneys say they won't sign it, but most do. That tells us up front that we need to watch the case like a hawk as the attorney isn't interested in endorsing their clients request. It doesn't mean they won't pay us, it just means that they are keeping their options open. > > We have come up with a system of printing case balances and faxing them every other month to attorneys to a. make sure they are aware of the balance and that it goes up every month due to the interest and b. we request the status of the case (open, closed, transferred, etc.) so we can know what's going on. All too often we have that form ignored for a few cycles and we call the attorney office and run down the list verbally with them asking the status on each case. > > A nice thing about the finance charges is that when it comes time to settle, I rarely have a problem cutting the bill because if they want a reduction, many times I'll just waive the interest. Over this many years, we have developed good relationships with several attorneys and the docs that work with them and we get their clients that have med pay policies too and those pay 100% of billed charged. Have we been burned over the years on this? Of course. In those cases, we send the case to collections after trying to get the client to pay and we then note what attorney was involved and the circumstances. Sometimes it turns out to be the case didn't go their way, other times they " missed " our lien, and other times the client says they want all the money and they'll pay providers directly and never do. But those are few and far between, we usually get our money. It's been nice in the slow months to have checks coming in from 2-3 years ago to get us through the slower periods. > > PTA Sac Spine & PT > (Email is not the best method for conveying messages exactly and I apologize in advance for its at times impersonal nature.) > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 I want to thank everyone who contributed a response to my question. I agree that we should always try and get 100% of our charges, but attorneys, just like patients, have other options to send their clients to if we do not negotiate with them at times and take less than 100% of our charges. With many of our lien cases coming from physicians who obtained the patient from the attorney, it only takes one attorney calling that physician telling them not to use ABC Physical Therapy and then we lose all attorney cases and possibly other patients referred by that physician that have insurance. Once again, thanks for sharing your experiences. Rick Gawenda, PT Director of Finance Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy, Inc. Subject: RE: Re: Attorney Lien Cases To: PTManager Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 4:09 PM  Doug et. al. - When I had several clinics and operated several others for another group, we used to have the patient sign a letter directing their attorney to pay us first and in full from any settlement, acknowledging in writing that cases almost never settle for as much as they would have initially hoped to get. The same letter also placed a lien on personal assets. This came about after a few calls from attorneys saying " We got less than we expected, so would you accept a discounted amount? " When we commented that we are like the electric company, did not accept the case on contingency, and expect to be paid in full, one attorney said, " Then you may get nothing! " To an attorney, you are just another negotiation adversary, not a compassionate humanitarian. Another patient, having settled for a reduced amount without our knowledge, had bought a car, and subsequently had no remaining resources to pay us. We sent them a Form 1099 " Miscellaneous Income " for the full amount. We did not get paid, but the IRS never goes away. Dr. Dick Hillyer, DPT, MBA _____ From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of dougrollptocs Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 10:54 AM To: PTManager Subject: Re: Attorney Lien Cases Group, We have updated our LOP letters. We no longer accept the letter from the attorney, we require the attorney to sign ours. Basic stipulations. No fee reductions pay in full, if not settled in 2 years then patient and/or attorney must start making payments. One attorney stated that our letter was in violation of the rules of the state bar association. We are Physical Therapists and the state bar is not our governing body. Roll PT, OCS, Ocean Springs, MS www.ptcos.com > > Average is $200/visit. Bottom amount is $160/visit. Biggest barrier is getting > attorney to sign letter of protection. > > > > Sumesh > > > > > ________________________________ > > To: ptmanager <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 8:56:37 PM > Subject: Attorney Lien Cases > >  > For those of you who take attorney lien cases, what is your average > reimbursement per visit once the case settles? What is your bottom amount that > you try to achieve? What have been some of your barriers in settling a case with > attorneys? If you would prefer, you can email me directly at rick@... > > Thank you in advance. > > Rick Gawenda, PT > Director of Finance > Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 I want to thank everyone who contributed a response to my question. I agree that we should always try and get 100% of our charges, but attorneys, just like patients, have other options to send their clients to if we do not negotiate with them at times and take less than 100% of our charges. With many of our lien cases coming from physicians who obtained the patient from the attorney, it only takes one attorney calling that physician telling them not to use ABC Physical Therapy and then we lose all attorney cases and possibly other patients referred by that physician that have insurance. Once again, thanks for sharing your experiences. Rick Gawenda, PT Director of Finance Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy, Inc. Subject: RE: Re: Attorney Lien Cases To: PTManager Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 4:09 PM  Doug et. al. - When I had several clinics and operated several others for another group, we used to have the patient sign a letter directing their attorney to pay us first and in full from any settlement, acknowledging in writing that cases almost never settle for as much as they would have initially hoped to get. The same letter also placed a lien on personal assets. This came about after a few calls from attorneys saying " We got less than we expected, so would you accept a discounted amount? " When we commented that we are like the electric company, did not accept the case on contingency, and expect to be paid in full, one attorney said, " Then you may get nothing! " To an attorney, you are just another negotiation adversary, not a compassionate humanitarian. Another patient, having settled for a reduced amount without our knowledge, had bought a car, and subsequently had no remaining resources to pay us. We sent them a Form 1099 " Miscellaneous Income " for the full amount. We did not get paid, but the IRS never goes away. Dr. Dick Hillyer, DPT, MBA _____ From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of dougrollptocs Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 10:54 AM To: PTManager Subject: Re: Attorney Lien Cases Group, We have updated our LOP letters. We no longer accept the letter from the attorney, we require the attorney to sign ours. Basic stipulations. No fee reductions pay in full, if not settled in 2 years then patient and/or attorney must start making payments. One attorney stated that our letter was in violation of the rules of the state bar association. We are Physical Therapists and the state bar is not our governing body. Roll PT, OCS, Ocean Springs, MS www.ptcos.com > > Average is $200/visit. Bottom amount is $160/visit. Biggest barrier is getting > attorney to sign letter of protection. > > > > Sumesh > > > > > ________________________________ > > To: ptmanager <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 8:56:37 PM > Subject: Attorney Lien Cases > >  > For those of you who take attorney lien cases, what is your average > reimbursement per visit once the case settles? What is your bottom amount that > you try to achieve? What have been some of your barriers in settling a case with > attorneys? If you would prefer, you can email me directly at rick@... > > Thank you in advance. > > Rick Gawenda, PT > Director of Finance > Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 I want to thank everyone who contributed a response to my question. I agree that we should always try and get 100% of our charges, but attorneys, just like patients, have other options to send their clients to if we do not negotiate with them at times and take less than 100% of our charges. With many of our lien cases coming from physicians who obtained the patient from the attorney, it only takes one attorney calling that physician telling them not to use ABC Physical Therapy and then we lose all attorney cases and possibly other patients referred by that physician that have insurance. Once again, thanks for sharing your experiences. Rick Gawenda, PT Director of Finance Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy, Inc. Subject: RE: Re: Attorney Lien Cases To: PTManager Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 4:09 PM  Doug et. al. - When I had several clinics and operated several others for another group, we used to have the patient sign a letter directing their attorney to pay us first and in full from any settlement, acknowledging in writing that cases almost never settle for as much as they would have initially hoped to get. The same letter also placed a lien on personal assets. This came about after a few calls from attorneys saying " We got less than we expected, so would you accept a discounted amount? " When we commented that we are like the electric company, did not accept the case on contingency, and expect to be paid in full, one attorney said, " Then you may get nothing! " To an attorney, you are just another negotiation adversary, not a compassionate humanitarian. Another patient, having settled for a reduced amount without our knowledge, had bought a car, and subsequently had no remaining resources to pay us. We sent them a Form 1099 " Miscellaneous Income " for the full amount. We did not get paid, but the IRS never goes away. Dr. Dick Hillyer, DPT, MBA _____ From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of dougrollptocs Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 10:54 AM To: PTManager Subject: Re: Attorney Lien Cases Group, We have updated our LOP letters. We no longer accept the letter from the attorney, we require the attorney to sign ours. Basic stipulations. No fee reductions pay in full, if not settled in 2 years then patient and/or attorney must start making payments. One attorney stated that our letter was in violation of the rules of the state bar association. We are Physical Therapists and the state bar is not our governing body. Roll PT, OCS, Ocean Springs, MS www.ptcos.com > > Average is $200/visit. Bottom amount is $160/visit. Biggest barrier is getting > attorney to sign letter of protection. > > > > Sumesh > > > > > ________________________________ > > To: ptmanager <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 8:56:37 PM > Subject: Attorney Lien Cases > >  > For those of you who take attorney lien cases, what is your average > reimbursement per visit once the case settles? What is your bottom amount that > you try to achieve? What have been some of your barriers in settling a case with > attorneys? If you would prefer, you can email me directly at rick@... > > Thank you in advance. > > Rick Gawenda, PT > Director of Finance > Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 We experienced the same types of issues that were shared in earlier posts. We have taken a different approach to these types of cases. We go through the patient's health insurance. The only attorney or liability cases we take are the ones where the patient does not have health insurance. This decision came after an extensive study on our outstanding liability/attorney/medpay accounts and we found that this was a better solution for us when you took into consideration the amount of time we had to wait for settlement combined with the amount of work we had to do to track the progress of the cases. Thanks for posting this question. Great topic. ________________________________ From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of Rick Gawenda Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2011 7:15 PM To: PTManager Subject: RE: Re: Attorney Lien Cases I want to thank everyone who contributed a response to my question. I agree that we should always try and get 100% of our charges, but attorneys, just like patients, have other options to send their clients to if we do not negotiate with them at times and take less than 100% of our charges. With many of our lien cases coming from physicians who obtained the patient from the attorney, it only takes one attorney calling that physician telling them not to use ABC Physical Therapy and then we lose all attorney cases and possibly other patients referred by that physician that have insurance. Once again, thanks for sharing your experiences. Rick Gawenda, PT Director of Finance Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy, Inc. From: Dick Hillyer <RHillyer@... <mailto:RHillyer%40Comcast.net> > Subject: RE: Re: Attorney Lien Cases To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 4:09 PM Doug et. al. - When I had several clinics and operated several others for another group, we used to have the patient sign a letter directing their attorney to pay us first and in full from any settlement, acknowledging in writing that cases almost never settle for as much as they would have initially hoped to get. The same letter also placed a lien on personal assets. This came about after a few calls from attorneys saying " We got less than we expected, so would you accept a discounted amount? " When we commented that we are like the electric company, did not accept the case on contingency, and expect to be paid in full, one attorney said, " Then you may get nothing! " To an attorney, you are just another negotiation adversary, not a compassionate humanitarian. Another patient, having settled for a reduced amount without our knowledge, had bought a car, and subsequently had no remaining resources to pay us. We sent them a Form 1099 " Miscellaneous Income " for the full amount. We did not get paid, but the IRS never goes away. Dr. Dick Hillyer, DPT, MBA _____ From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of dougrollptocs Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 10:54 AM To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: Attorney Lien Cases Group, We have updated our LOP letters. We no longer accept the letter from the attorney, we require the attorney to sign ours. Basic stipulations. No fee reductions pay in full, if not settled in 2 years then patient and/or attorney must start making payments. One attorney stated that our letter was in violation of the rules of the state bar association. We are Physical Therapists and the state bar is not our governing body. Roll PT, OCS, Ocean Springs, MS www.ptcos.com > > Average is $200/visit. Bottom amount is $160/visit. Biggest barrier is getting > attorney to sign letter of protection. > > > > Sumesh > > > > > ________________________________ > > To: ptmanager <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 8:56:37 PM > Subject: Attorney Lien Cases > >  > For those of you who take attorney lien cases, what is your average > reimbursement per visit once the case settles? What is your bottom amount that > you try to achieve? What have been some of your barriers in settling a case with > attorneys? If you would prefer, you can email me directly at rick@... > > Thank you in advance. > > Rick Gawenda, PT > Director of Finance > Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 We experienced the same types of issues that were shared in earlier posts. We have taken a different approach to these types of cases. We go through the patient's health insurance. The only attorney or liability cases we take are the ones where the patient does not have health insurance. This decision came after an extensive study on our outstanding liability/attorney/medpay accounts and we found that this was a better solution for us when you took into consideration the amount of time we had to wait for settlement combined with the amount of work we had to do to track the progress of the cases. Thanks for posting this question. Great topic. ________________________________ From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of Rick Gawenda Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2011 7:15 PM To: PTManager Subject: RE: Re: Attorney Lien Cases I want to thank everyone who contributed a response to my question. I agree that we should always try and get 100% of our charges, but attorneys, just like patients, have other options to send their clients to if we do not negotiate with them at times and take less than 100% of our charges. With many of our lien cases coming from physicians who obtained the patient from the attorney, it only takes one attorney calling that physician telling them not to use ABC Physical Therapy and then we lose all attorney cases and possibly other patients referred by that physician that have insurance. Once again, thanks for sharing your experiences. Rick Gawenda, PT Director of Finance Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy, Inc. From: Dick Hillyer <RHillyer@... <mailto:RHillyer%40Comcast.net> > Subject: RE: Re: Attorney Lien Cases To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 4:09 PM Doug et. al. - When I had several clinics and operated several others for another group, we used to have the patient sign a letter directing their attorney to pay us first and in full from any settlement, acknowledging in writing that cases almost never settle for as much as they would have initially hoped to get. The same letter also placed a lien on personal assets. This came about after a few calls from attorneys saying " We got less than we expected, so would you accept a discounted amount? " When we commented that we are like the electric company, did not accept the case on contingency, and expect to be paid in full, one attorney said, " Then you may get nothing! " To an attorney, you are just another negotiation adversary, not a compassionate humanitarian. Another patient, having settled for a reduced amount without our knowledge, had bought a car, and subsequently had no remaining resources to pay us. We sent them a Form 1099 " Miscellaneous Income " for the full amount. We did not get paid, but the IRS never goes away. Dr. Dick Hillyer, DPT, MBA _____ From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of dougrollptocs Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 10:54 AM To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: Attorney Lien Cases Group, We have updated our LOP letters. We no longer accept the letter from the attorney, we require the attorney to sign ours. Basic stipulations. No fee reductions pay in full, if not settled in 2 years then patient and/or attorney must start making payments. One attorney stated that our letter was in violation of the rules of the state bar association. We are Physical Therapists and the state bar is not our governing body. Roll PT, OCS, Ocean Springs, MS www.ptcos.com > > Average is $200/visit. Bottom amount is $160/visit. Biggest barrier is getting > attorney to sign letter of protection. > > > > Sumesh > > > > > ________________________________ > > To: ptmanager <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 8:56:37 PM > Subject: Attorney Lien Cases > >  > For those of you who take attorney lien cases, what is your average > reimbursement per visit once the case settles? What is your bottom amount that > you try to achieve? What have been some of your barriers in settling a case with > attorneys? If you would prefer, you can email me directly at rick@... > > Thank you in advance. > > Rick Gawenda, PT > Director of Finance > Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 We experienced the same types of issues that were shared in earlier posts. We have taken a different approach to these types of cases. We go through the patient's health insurance. The only attorney or liability cases we take are the ones where the patient does not have health insurance. This decision came after an extensive study on our outstanding liability/attorney/medpay accounts and we found that this was a better solution for us when you took into consideration the amount of time we had to wait for settlement combined with the amount of work we had to do to track the progress of the cases. Thanks for posting this question. Great topic. ________________________________ From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of Rick Gawenda Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2011 7:15 PM To: PTManager Subject: RE: Re: Attorney Lien Cases I want to thank everyone who contributed a response to my question. I agree that we should always try and get 100% of our charges, but attorneys, just like patients, have other options to send their clients to if we do not negotiate with them at times and take less than 100% of our charges. With many of our lien cases coming from physicians who obtained the patient from the attorney, it only takes one attorney calling that physician telling them not to use ABC Physical Therapy and then we lose all attorney cases and possibly other patients referred by that physician that have insurance. Once again, thanks for sharing your experiences. Rick Gawenda, PT Director of Finance Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy, Inc. From: Dick Hillyer <RHillyer@... <mailto:RHillyer%40Comcast.net> > Subject: RE: Re: Attorney Lien Cases To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 4:09 PM Doug et. al. - When I had several clinics and operated several others for another group, we used to have the patient sign a letter directing their attorney to pay us first and in full from any settlement, acknowledging in writing that cases almost never settle for as much as they would have initially hoped to get. The same letter also placed a lien on personal assets. This came about after a few calls from attorneys saying " We got less than we expected, so would you accept a discounted amount? " When we commented that we are like the electric company, did not accept the case on contingency, and expect to be paid in full, one attorney said, " Then you may get nothing! " To an attorney, you are just another negotiation adversary, not a compassionate humanitarian. Another patient, having settled for a reduced amount without our knowledge, had bought a car, and subsequently had no remaining resources to pay us. We sent them a Form 1099 " Miscellaneous Income " for the full amount. We did not get paid, but the IRS never goes away. Dr. Dick Hillyer, DPT, MBA _____ From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of dougrollptocs Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 10:54 AM To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: Attorney Lien Cases Group, We have updated our LOP letters. We no longer accept the letter from the attorney, we require the attorney to sign ours. Basic stipulations. No fee reductions pay in full, if not settled in 2 years then patient and/or attorney must start making payments. One attorney stated that our letter was in violation of the rules of the state bar association. We are Physical Therapists and the state bar is not our governing body. Roll PT, OCS, Ocean Springs, MS www.ptcos.com > > Average is $200/visit. Bottom amount is $160/visit. Biggest barrier is getting > attorney to sign letter of protection. > > > > Sumesh > > > > > ________________________________ > > To: ptmanager <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 8:56:37 PM > Subject: Attorney Lien Cases > >  > For those of you who take attorney lien cases, what is your average > reimbursement per visit once the case settles? What is your bottom amount that > you try to achieve? What have been some of your barriers in settling a case with > attorneys? If you would prefer, you can email me directly at rick@... > > Thank you in advance. > > Rick Gawenda, PT > Director of Finance > Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Lien cases are handled according to state law. Each state has their own set of laws governing how lien cases are to be handled. Some states MANDATE that commercial insurances are billed and attorneys have to settle up with with them after a case is settled. Other state laws have liability to the responsible party and commercial carriers are kept out of it until after the courts determine the liable party (and in some cases it is too late to file a claim-statute of limitations). I know I have cranked out on this list serv before that I believe it would be helpful to have a set of federal insurance laws that everyone had to abide by. In other words, one set of rules instead of 54 (50 states plus the 4 federal sets of regs). If anyone is interested, I have submitted a couple of articles for consideration to APTA's PPS magazine Impact. I think one of them will be published in the April edition and I believe another is being contemplated. But my point here is that some of you can file claims to commercial carriers and thereby forego the liens. Others cannot, it all depends on your state laws. Jim Hall, CPA <///>< General Manager Rehab Management Services, LLC Cedar Rapids, IA 319/892-0142 Visit our website at: www.rehabmgmt.com Attorney Lien Cases > > Â > For those of you who take attorney lien cases, what is your average > reimbursement per visit once the case settles? What is your bottom amount that > you try to achieve? What have been some of your barriers in settling a case with > attorneys? If you would prefer, you can email me directly at rick@... > > Thank you in advance. > > Rick Gawenda, PT > Director of Finance > Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Lien cases are handled according to state law. Each state has their own set of laws governing how lien cases are to be handled. Some states MANDATE that commercial insurances are billed and attorneys have to settle up with with them after a case is settled. Other state laws have liability to the responsible party and commercial carriers are kept out of it until after the courts determine the liable party (and in some cases it is too late to file a claim-statute of limitations). I know I have cranked out on this list serv before that I believe it would be helpful to have a set of federal insurance laws that everyone had to abide by. In other words, one set of rules instead of 54 (50 states plus the 4 federal sets of regs). If anyone is interested, I have submitted a couple of articles for consideration to APTA's PPS magazine Impact. I think one of them will be published in the April edition and I believe another is being contemplated. But my point here is that some of you can file claims to commercial carriers and thereby forego the liens. Others cannot, it all depends on your state laws. Jim Hall, CPA <///>< General Manager Rehab Management Services, LLC Cedar Rapids, IA 319/892-0142 Visit our website at: www.rehabmgmt.com Attorney Lien Cases > > Â > For those of you who take attorney lien cases, what is your average > reimbursement per visit once the case settles? What is your bottom amount that > you try to achieve? What have been some of your barriers in settling a case with > attorneys? If you would prefer, you can email me directly at rick@... > > Thank you in advance. > > Rick Gawenda, PT > Director of Finance > Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Lien cases are handled according to state law. Each state has their own set of laws governing how lien cases are to be handled. Some states MANDATE that commercial insurances are billed and attorneys have to settle up with with them after a case is settled. Other state laws have liability to the responsible party and commercial carriers are kept out of it until after the courts determine the liable party (and in some cases it is too late to file a claim-statute of limitations). I know I have cranked out on this list serv before that I believe it would be helpful to have a set of federal insurance laws that everyone had to abide by. In other words, one set of rules instead of 54 (50 states plus the 4 federal sets of regs). If anyone is interested, I have submitted a couple of articles for consideration to APTA's PPS magazine Impact. I think one of them will be published in the April edition and I believe another is being contemplated. But my point here is that some of you can file claims to commercial carriers and thereby forego the liens. Others cannot, it all depends on your state laws. Jim Hall, CPA <///>< General Manager Rehab Management Services, LLC Cedar Rapids, IA 319/892-0142 Visit our website at: www.rehabmgmt.com Attorney Lien Cases > > Â > For those of you who take attorney lien cases, what is your average > reimbursement per visit once the case settles? What is your bottom amount that > you try to achieve? What have been some of your barriers in settling a case with > attorneys? If you would prefer, you can email me directly at rick@... > > Thank you in advance. > > Rick Gawenda, PT > Director of Finance > Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 What do you do about copay and deductible? Especially if it's at the beginning of the year and the patient hasn't met their deductible? From: Dick Hillyer <RHillyer@... <mailto:RHillyer%40Comcast.net> > Subject: RE: Re: Attorney Lien Cases To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 4:09 PM Doug et. al. - When I had several clinics and operated several others for another group, we used to have the patient sign a letter directing their attorney to pay us first and in full from any settlement, acknowledging in writing that cases almost never settle for as much as they would have initially hoped to get. The same letter also placed a lien on personal assets. This came about after a few calls from attorneys saying " We got less than we expected, so would you accept a discounted amount? " When we commented that we are like the electric company, did not accept the case on contingency, and expect to be paid in full, one attorney said, " Then you may get nothing! " To an attorney, you are just another negotiation adversary, not a compassionate humanitarian. Another patient, having settled for a reduced amount without our knowledge, had bought a car, and subsequently had no remaining resources to pay us. We sent them a Form 1099 " Miscellaneous Income " for the full amount. We did not get paid, but the IRS never goes away. Dr. Dick Hillyer, DPT, MBA _____ From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of dougrollptocs Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 10:54 AM To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: Attorney Lien Cases Group, We have updated our LOP letters. We no longer accept the letter from the attorney, we require the attorney to sign ours. Basic stipulations. No fee reductions pay in full, if not settled in 2 years then patient and/or attorney must start making payments. One attorney stated that our letter was in violation of the rules of the state bar association. We are Physical Therapists and the state bar is not our governing body. Roll PT, OCS, Ocean Springs, MS www.ptcos.com > > Average is $200/visit. Bottom amount is $160/visit. Biggest barrier is getting > attorney to sign letter of protection. > > > > Sumesh > > > > > ________________________________ > > To: ptmanager <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 8:56:37 PM > Subject: Attorney Lien Cases > >  > For those of you who take attorney lien cases, what is your average > reimbursement per visit once the case settles? What is your bottom amount that > you try to achieve? What have been some of your barriers in settling a case with > attorneys? If you would prefer, you can email me directly at rick@... > > Thank you in advance. > > Rick Gawenda, PT > Director of Finance > Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 What do you do about copay and deductible? Especially if it's at the beginning of the year and the patient hasn't met their deductible? From: Dick Hillyer <RHillyer@... <mailto:RHillyer%40Comcast.net> > Subject: RE: Re: Attorney Lien Cases To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 4:09 PM Doug et. al. - When I had several clinics and operated several others for another group, we used to have the patient sign a letter directing their attorney to pay us first and in full from any settlement, acknowledging in writing that cases almost never settle for as much as they would have initially hoped to get. The same letter also placed a lien on personal assets. This came about after a few calls from attorneys saying " We got less than we expected, so would you accept a discounted amount? " When we commented that we are like the electric company, did not accept the case on contingency, and expect to be paid in full, one attorney said, " Then you may get nothing! " To an attorney, you are just another negotiation adversary, not a compassionate humanitarian. Another patient, having settled for a reduced amount without our knowledge, had bought a car, and subsequently had no remaining resources to pay us. We sent them a Form 1099 " Miscellaneous Income " for the full amount. We did not get paid, but the IRS never goes away. Dr. Dick Hillyer, DPT, MBA _____ From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of dougrollptocs Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 10:54 AM To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: Attorney Lien Cases Group, We have updated our LOP letters. We no longer accept the letter from the attorney, we require the attorney to sign ours. Basic stipulations. No fee reductions pay in full, if not settled in 2 years then patient and/or attorney must start making payments. One attorney stated that our letter was in violation of the rules of the state bar association. We are Physical Therapists and the state bar is not our governing body. Roll PT, OCS, Ocean Springs, MS www.ptcos.com > > Average is $200/visit. Bottom amount is $160/visit. Biggest barrier is getting > attorney to sign letter of protection. > > > > Sumesh > > > > > ________________________________ > > To: ptmanager <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 8:56:37 PM > Subject: Attorney Lien Cases > >  > For those of you who take attorney lien cases, what is your average > reimbursement per visit once the case settles? What is your bottom amount that > you try to achieve? What have been some of your barriers in settling a case with > attorneys? If you would prefer, you can email me directly at rick@... > > Thank you in advance. > > Rick Gawenda, PT > Director of Finance > Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 What do you do about copay and deductible? Especially if it's at the beginning of the year and the patient hasn't met their deductible? From: Dick Hillyer <RHillyer@... <mailto:RHillyer%40Comcast.net> > Subject: RE: Re: Attorney Lien Cases To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 4:09 PM Doug et. al. - When I had several clinics and operated several others for another group, we used to have the patient sign a letter directing their attorney to pay us first and in full from any settlement, acknowledging in writing that cases almost never settle for as much as they would have initially hoped to get. The same letter also placed a lien on personal assets. This came about after a few calls from attorneys saying " We got less than we expected, so would you accept a discounted amount? " When we commented that we are like the electric company, did not accept the case on contingency, and expect to be paid in full, one attorney said, " Then you may get nothing! " To an attorney, you are just another negotiation adversary, not a compassionate humanitarian. Another patient, having settled for a reduced amount without our knowledge, had bought a car, and subsequently had no remaining resources to pay us. We sent them a Form 1099 " Miscellaneous Income " for the full amount. We did not get paid, but the IRS never goes away. Dr. Dick Hillyer, DPT, MBA _____ From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of dougrollptocs Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 10:54 AM To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: Attorney Lien Cases Group, We have updated our LOP letters. We no longer accept the letter from the attorney, we require the attorney to sign ours. Basic stipulations. No fee reductions pay in full, if not settled in 2 years then patient and/or attorney must start making payments. One attorney stated that our letter was in violation of the rules of the state bar association. We are Physical Therapists and the state bar is not our governing body. Roll PT, OCS, Ocean Springs, MS www.ptcos.com > > Average is $200/visit. Bottom amount is $160/visit. Biggest barrier is getting > attorney to sign letter of protection. > > > > Sumesh > > > > > ________________________________ > > To: ptmanager <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 8:56:37 PM > Subject: Attorney Lien Cases > >  > For those of you who take attorney lien cases, what is your average > reimbursement per visit once the case settles? What is your bottom amount that > you try to achieve? What have been some of your barriers in settling a case with > attorneys? If you would prefer, you can email me directly at rick@... > > Thank you in advance. > > Rick Gawenda, PT > Director of Finance > Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 We are in Illinois. Does anyone know where (on the Internet) we can look up the laws that apply to physician's liens? From: Dick Hillyer <RHillyer@... <mailto:RHillyer%40Comcast.net>; > Subject: RE: Re: Attorney Lien Cases To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>; Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 4:09 PM Doug et. al. - When I had several clinics and operated several others for another group, we used to have the patient sign a letter directing their attorney to pay us first and in full from any settlement, acknowledging in writing that cases almost never settle for as much as they would have initially hoped to get. The same letter also placed a lien on personal assets. This came about after a few calls from attorneys saying " We got less than we expected, so would you accept a discounted amount? " When we commented that we are like the electric company, did not accept the case on contingency, and expect to be paid in full, one attorney said, " Then you may get nothing! " To an attorney, you are just another negotiation adversary, not a compassionate humanitarian. Another patient, having settled for a reduced amount without our knowledge, had bought a car, and subsequently had no remaining resources to pay us. We sent them a Form 1099 " Miscellaneous Income " for the full amount. We did not get paid, but the IRS never goes away. Dr. Dick Hillyer, DPT, MBA _____ From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>; [mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>; ] On Behalf Of dougrollptocs Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 10:54 AM To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>; Subject: Re: Attorney Lien Cases Group, We have updated our LOP letters. We no longer accept the letter from the attorney, we require the attorney to sign ours. Basic stipulations. No fee reductions pay in full, if not settled in 2 years then patient and/or attorney must start making payments. One attorney stated that our letter was in violation of the rules of the state bar association. We are Physical Therapists and the state bar is not our governing body. Roll PT, OCS, Ocean Springs, MS www.ptcos.com > > Average is $200/visit. Bottom amount is $160/visit. Biggest barrier is getting > attorney to sign letter of protection. > > > > Sumesh > > > > > ________________________________ > > To: ptmanager <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com>; <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com>; > Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 8:56:37 PM > Subject: Attorney Lien Cases > >  > For those of you who take attorney lien cases, what is your average > reimbursement per visit once the case settles? What is your bottom amount that > you try to achieve? What have been some of your barriers in settling a case with > attorneys? If you would prefer, you can email me directly at rick@... > > Thank you in advance. > > Rick Gawenda, PT > Director of Finance > Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 We are in Illinois. Does anyone know where (on the Internet) we can look up the laws that apply to physician's liens? From: Dick Hillyer <RHillyer@... <mailto:RHillyer%40Comcast.net>; > Subject: RE: Re: Attorney Lien Cases To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>; Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 4:09 PM Doug et. al. - When I had several clinics and operated several others for another group, we used to have the patient sign a letter directing their attorney to pay us first and in full from any settlement, acknowledging in writing that cases almost never settle for as much as they would have initially hoped to get. The same letter also placed a lien on personal assets. This came about after a few calls from attorneys saying " We got less than we expected, so would you accept a discounted amount? " When we commented that we are like the electric company, did not accept the case on contingency, and expect to be paid in full, one attorney said, " Then you may get nothing! " To an attorney, you are just another negotiation adversary, not a compassionate humanitarian. Another patient, having settled for a reduced amount without our knowledge, had bought a car, and subsequently had no remaining resources to pay us. We sent them a Form 1099 " Miscellaneous Income " for the full amount. We did not get paid, but the IRS never goes away. Dr. Dick Hillyer, DPT, MBA _____ From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>; [mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>; ] On Behalf Of dougrollptocs Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 10:54 AM To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>; Subject: Re: Attorney Lien Cases Group, We have updated our LOP letters. We no longer accept the letter from the attorney, we require the attorney to sign ours. Basic stipulations. No fee reductions pay in full, if not settled in 2 years then patient and/or attorney must start making payments. One attorney stated that our letter was in violation of the rules of the state bar association. We are Physical Therapists and the state bar is not our governing body. Roll PT, OCS, Ocean Springs, MS www.ptcos.com > > Average is $200/visit. Bottom amount is $160/visit. Biggest barrier is getting > attorney to sign letter of protection. > > > > Sumesh > > > > > ________________________________ > > To: ptmanager <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com>; <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com>; > Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 8:56:37 PM > Subject: Attorney Lien Cases > >  > For those of you who take attorney lien cases, what is your average > reimbursement per visit once the case settles? What is your bottom amount that > you try to achieve? What have been some of your barriers in settling a case with > attorneys? If you would prefer, you can email me directly at rick@... > > Thank you in advance. > > Rick Gawenda, PT > Director of Finance > Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 We are in Illinois. Does anyone know where (on the Internet) we can look up the laws that apply to physician's liens? From: Dick Hillyer <RHillyer@... <mailto:RHillyer%40Comcast.net>; > Subject: RE: Re: Attorney Lien Cases To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>; Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 4:09 PM Doug et. al. - When I had several clinics and operated several others for another group, we used to have the patient sign a letter directing their attorney to pay us first and in full from any settlement, acknowledging in writing that cases almost never settle for as much as they would have initially hoped to get. The same letter also placed a lien on personal assets. This came about after a few calls from attorneys saying " We got less than we expected, so would you accept a discounted amount? " When we commented that we are like the electric company, did not accept the case on contingency, and expect to be paid in full, one attorney said, " Then you may get nothing! " To an attorney, you are just another negotiation adversary, not a compassionate humanitarian. Another patient, having settled for a reduced amount without our knowledge, had bought a car, and subsequently had no remaining resources to pay us. We sent them a Form 1099 " Miscellaneous Income " for the full amount. We did not get paid, but the IRS never goes away. Dr. Dick Hillyer, DPT, MBA _____ From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>; [mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>; ] On Behalf Of dougrollptocs Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 10:54 AM To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>; Subject: Re: Attorney Lien Cases Group, We have updated our LOP letters. We no longer accept the letter from the attorney, we require the attorney to sign ours. Basic stipulations. No fee reductions pay in full, if not settled in 2 years then patient and/or attorney must start making payments. One attorney stated that our letter was in violation of the rules of the state bar association. We are Physical Therapists and the state bar is not our governing body. Roll PT, OCS, Ocean Springs, MS www.ptcos.com > > Average is $200/visit. Bottom amount is $160/visit. Biggest barrier is getting > attorney to sign letter of protection. > > > > Sumesh > > > > > ________________________________ > > To: ptmanager <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com>; <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com>; > Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 8:56:37 PM > Subject: Attorney Lien Cases > >  > For those of you who take attorney lien cases, what is your average > reimbursement per visit once the case settles? What is your bottom amount that > you try to achieve? What have been some of your barriers in settling a case with > attorneys? If you would prefer, you can email me directly at rick@... > > Thank you in advance. > > Rick Gawenda, PT > Director of Finance > Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 We expect the patient to pay at time of service or make payment arrangements. If the patient has medpay insurance, we will allow them to put their medpay as secondary to cover their out of pocket expenses. We also offer monthly payment plans and patient's seem receptive to this, especially those that are looking for a quick settlement with the insurance. Often attorneys will agree to pay the coinsurance/deductible/copay on behalf of the patient. It is less money out of their pocket. Sometimes we have to sell the patient on the advantages to them and we do sometimes lose patients over the policy but not often. I realize that this is not the best approach for everyone and that there are differences from state to state but I do feel it has been a positive change for us. ________________________________ From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of Francesca Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 10:10 AM To: PTManager Subject: RE: Re: Attorney Lien Cases What do you do about copay and deductible? Especially if it's at the beginning of the year and the patient hasn't met their deductible? From: Dick Hillyer <RHillyer@... <mailto:RHillyer%40Comcast.net> <mailto:RHillyer%40Comcast.net> > Subject: RE: Re: Attorney Lien Cases To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 4:09 PM Doug et. al. - When I had several clinics and operated several others for another group, we used to have the patient sign a letter directing their attorney to pay us first and in full from any settlement, acknowledging in writing that cases almost never settle for as much as they would have initially hoped to get. The same letter also placed a lien on personal assets. This came about after a few calls from attorneys saying " We got less than we expected, so would you accept a discounted amount? " When we commented that we are like the electric company, did not accept the case on contingency, and expect to be paid in full, one attorney said, " Then you may get nothing! " To an attorney, you are just another negotiation adversary, not a compassionate humanitarian. Another patient, having settled for a reduced amount without our knowledge, had bought a car, and subsequently had no remaining resources to pay us. We sent them a Form 1099 " Miscellaneous Income " for the full amount. We did not get paid, but the IRS never goes away. Dr. Dick Hillyer, DPT, MBA _____ From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of dougrollptocs Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 10:54 AM To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: Attorney Lien Cases Group, We have updated our LOP letters. We no longer accept the letter from the attorney, we require the attorney to sign ours. Basic stipulations. No fee reductions pay in full, if not settled in 2 years then patient and/or attorney must start making payments. One attorney stated that our letter was in violation of the rules of the state bar association. We are Physical Therapists and the state bar is not our governing body. Roll PT, OCS, Ocean Springs, MS www.ptcos.com > > Average is $200/visit. Bottom amount is $160/visit. Biggest barrier is getting > attorney to sign letter of protection. > > > > Sumesh > > > > > ________________________________ > > To: ptmanager <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 8:56:37 PM > Subject: Attorney Lien Cases > >  > For those of you who take attorney lien cases, what is your average > reimbursement per visit once the case settles? What is your bottom amount that > you try to achieve? What have been some of your barriers in settling a case with > attorneys? If you would prefer, you can email me directly at rick@... > > Thank you in advance. > > Rick Gawenda, PT > Director of Finance > Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 We expect the patient to pay at time of service or make payment arrangements. If the patient has medpay insurance, we will allow them to put their medpay as secondary to cover their out of pocket expenses. We also offer monthly payment plans and patient's seem receptive to this, especially those that are looking for a quick settlement with the insurance. Often attorneys will agree to pay the coinsurance/deductible/copay on behalf of the patient. It is less money out of their pocket. Sometimes we have to sell the patient on the advantages to them and we do sometimes lose patients over the policy but not often. I realize that this is not the best approach for everyone and that there are differences from state to state but I do feel it has been a positive change for us. ________________________________ From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of Francesca Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 10:10 AM To: PTManager Subject: RE: Re: Attorney Lien Cases What do you do about copay and deductible? Especially if it's at the beginning of the year and the patient hasn't met their deductible? From: Dick Hillyer <RHillyer@... <mailto:RHillyer%40Comcast.net> <mailto:RHillyer%40Comcast.net> > Subject: RE: Re: Attorney Lien Cases To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 4:09 PM Doug et. al. - When I had several clinics and operated several others for another group, we used to have the patient sign a letter directing their attorney to pay us first and in full from any settlement, acknowledging in writing that cases almost never settle for as much as they would have initially hoped to get. The same letter also placed a lien on personal assets. This came about after a few calls from attorneys saying " We got less than we expected, so would you accept a discounted amount? " When we commented that we are like the electric company, did not accept the case on contingency, and expect to be paid in full, one attorney said, " Then you may get nothing! " To an attorney, you are just another negotiation adversary, not a compassionate humanitarian. Another patient, having settled for a reduced amount without our knowledge, had bought a car, and subsequently had no remaining resources to pay us. We sent them a Form 1099 " Miscellaneous Income " for the full amount. We did not get paid, but the IRS never goes away. Dr. Dick Hillyer, DPT, MBA _____ From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of dougrollptocs Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 10:54 AM To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: Attorney Lien Cases Group, We have updated our LOP letters. We no longer accept the letter from the attorney, we require the attorney to sign ours. Basic stipulations. No fee reductions pay in full, if not settled in 2 years then patient and/or attorney must start making payments. One attorney stated that our letter was in violation of the rules of the state bar association. We are Physical Therapists and the state bar is not our governing body. Roll PT, OCS, Ocean Springs, MS www.ptcos.com > > Average is $200/visit. Bottom amount is $160/visit. Biggest barrier is getting > attorney to sign letter of protection. > > > > Sumesh > > > > > ________________________________ > > To: ptmanager <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 8:56:37 PM > Subject: Attorney Lien Cases > >  > For those of you who take attorney lien cases, what is your average > reimbursement per visit once the case settles? What is your bottom amount that > you try to achieve? What have been some of your barriers in settling a case with > attorneys? If you would prefer, you can email me directly at rick@... > > Thank you in advance. > > Rick Gawenda, PT > Director of Finance > Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 We expect the patient to pay at time of service or make payment arrangements. If the patient has medpay insurance, we will allow them to put their medpay as secondary to cover their out of pocket expenses. We also offer monthly payment plans and patient's seem receptive to this, especially those that are looking for a quick settlement with the insurance. Often attorneys will agree to pay the coinsurance/deductible/copay on behalf of the patient. It is less money out of their pocket. Sometimes we have to sell the patient on the advantages to them and we do sometimes lose patients over the policy but not often. I realize that this is not the best approach for everyone and that there are differences from state to state but I do feel it has been a positive change for us. ________________________________ From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of Francesca Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 10:10 AM To: PTManager Subject: RE: Re: Attorney Lien Cases What do you do about copay and deductible? Especially if it's at the beginning of the year and the patient hasn't met their deductible? From: Dick Hillyer <RHillyer@... <mailto:RHillyer%40Comcast.net> <mailto:RHillyer%40Comcast.net> > Subject: RE: Re: Attorney Lien Cases To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 4:09 PM Doug et. al. - When I had several clinics and operated several others for another group, we used to have the patient sign a letter directing their attorney to pay us first and in full from any settlement, acknowledging in writing that cases almost never settle for as much as they would have initially hoped to get. The same letter also placed a lien on personal assets. This came about after a few calls from attorneys saying " We got less than we expected, so would you accept a discounted amount? " When we commented that we are like the electric company, did not accept the case on contingency, and expect to be paid in full, one attorney said, " Then you may get nothing! " To an attorney, you are just another negotiation adversary, not a compassionate humanitarian. Another patient, having settled for a reduced amount without our knowledge, had bought a car, and subsequently had no remaining resources to pay us. We sent them a Form 1099 " Miscellaneous Income " for the full amount. We did not get paid, but the IRS never goes away. Dr. Dick Hillyer, DPT, MBA _____ From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of dougrollptocs Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 10:54 AM To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: Attorney Lien Cases Group, We have updated our LOP letters. We no longer accept the letter from the attorney, we require the attorney to sign ours. Basic stipulations. No fee reductions pay in full, if not settled in 2 years then patient and/or attorney must start making payments. One attorney stated that our letter was in violation of the rules of the state bar association. We are Physical Therapists and the state bar is not our governing body. Roll PT, OCS, Ocean Springs, MS www.ptcos.com > > Average is $200/visit. Bottom amount is $160/visit. Biggest barrier is getting > attorney to sign letter of protection. > > > > Sumesh > > > > > ________________________________ > > To: ptmanager <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 8:56:37 PM > Subject: Attorney Lien Cases > >  > For those of you who take attorney lien cases, what is your average > reimbursement per visit once the case settles? What is your bottom amount that > you try to achieve? What have been some of your barriers in settling a case with > attorneys? If you would prefer, you can email me directly at rick@... > > Thank you in advance. > > Rick Gawenda, PT > Director of Finance > Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Another option is to use a service like Medfin Manager. One of our ortho clinics that refers to us uses this company. You will negotiate with Medfin for a % of billed charges and they basically buy that LOP account from you. You get paid on a % of your charges within 30 days and Medfin waits for the settlement. The provider then gets paid within 30 days at a reduced rate, but it is about the same reimbursement as health insurance and you do not have to wait years to get paid and then still have to deal with requests for discounts. This particular clinic calls the attorney involved and tells them that they need to use Medfin or else pay each visit for the patient with a credit card at time of service. It seems to work well for them. Cheri Freeman, CMRS Healthcare Reimbursement Services, LLC Austin, TX > > > > > > Average is $200/visit. Bottom amount is $160/visit. Biggest barrier is > > getting > > > attorney to sign letter of protection. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sumesh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Rick Gawenda <rick0905@> > > > To: ptmanager <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ptmanager%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 8:56:37 PM > > > Subject: Attorney Lien Cases > > > > > >  > > > For those of you who take attorney lien cases, what is your average > > > reimbursement per visit once the case settles? What is your bottom amount > > that > > > you try to achieve? What have been some of your barriers in settling a > > case with > > > attorneys? If you would prefer, you can email me directly at rick@ > > > > > > Thank you in advance. > > > > > > Rick Gawenda, PT > > > Director of Finance > > > Kinetix Advanced Physical Therapy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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