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RE: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

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Posted
Posted

I have a staff of over 30. We have speech, PT, OT, athletic training, sports

enhancement, industrial rehab, aquatic therapy, SNF, outpatient, and acute inpt.

All staff , except front office, have a full patient load. If you have the right

staff, it should not take much administration.

Trevor PT

IL

Sent from my Windows Mobile® phone.

________________________________

Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 4:36 PM

To: PTManager <PTManager >

Subject: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two administrators

overseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff strength around 9-12

including PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

My questions to the group...

In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient care

responsibilities ?

Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to carry a

25-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively small.

More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

referred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a compulsory

patient load ..

and

what is the average percentage of case load that administrative/supervisory

staff must carry ?

Thanks

Nat

MI

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Posted
Posted

I have a staff of over 30. We have speech, PT, OT, athletic training, sports

enhancement, industrial rehab, aquatic therapy, SNF, outpatient, and acute inpt.

All staff , except front office, have a full patient load. If you have the right

staff, it should not take much administration.

Trevor PT

IL

Sent from my Windows Mobile® phone.

________________________________

Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 4:36 PM

To: PTManager <PTManager >

Subject: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two administrators

overseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff strength around 9-12

including PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

My questions to the group...

In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient care

responsibilities ?

Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to carry a

25-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively small.

More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

referred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a compulsory

patient load ..

and

what is the average percentage of case load that administrative/supervisory

staff must carry ?

Thanks

Nat

MI

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Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

I have a staff of over 30. We have speech, PT, OT, athletic training, sports

enhancement, industrial rehab, aquatic therapy, SNF, outpatient, and acute inpt.

All staff , except front office, have a full patient load. If you have the right

staff, it should not take much administration.

Trevor PT

IL

Sent from my Windows Mobile® phone.

________________________________

Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 4:36 PM

To: PTManager <PTManager >

Subject: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two administrators

overseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff strength around 9-12

including PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

My questions to the group...

In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient care

responsibilities ?

Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to carry a

25-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively small.

More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

referred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a compulsory

patient load ..

and

what is the average percentage of case load that administrative/supervisory

staff must carry ?

Thanks

Nat

MI

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Posted
Posted

It depends on what administrative duties you want them to do.

If it is merely overseeing staff, I would expect them to have a case load.

However, if administrative duties include chart review, marketing, quality

improvement, interdepartmental coordination, program development, facilitate

referrals, community involvement etc, they will have no time to see patients.

Just my 2 cents,

EJ

Ky

Sent from my iPod

> A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two administrators

overseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff strength around 9-12

including PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

>

> My questions to the group...

>

> In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

>

> Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient care

responsibilities ?

>

> Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to carry a

25-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively small.

>

> More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

referred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a compulsory

patient load ..

>

> and

>

> what is the average percentage of case load that administrative/supervisory

staff must carry ?

>

> Thanks

> Nat

> MI

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Good morning!

My 2 cents on this question...

I am a manger of a hospital based rehab department which has ranged from

20-28 employees in my 8 years here. I have carried a full caseload

during at least 4 of my 8 years and have continued to see patients to

varying degrees dependending on the need. Currently my caseload is

quite full.

While Trevor is correct in that if you have the right staff it certainly

makes administration easier, there is and always will be

responsibilities including payroll, interviews, hiring/firing, employee

evaluations, accounts payable, budgeting, scheduling of staff to cover

vacations, illnesses, maternity leaves, etc. In addition, in the

hospital setting, there will be responsibilities to take part in

committees, various meetings, organizational events, contract

negotiations, community outreach, marketing, etc.

There will also be problems to deal with no matter how good your staff

is. Our pt. volumes do vary at times; especially in the last 2 years

with the economic downturn. Even with this being the case I find my

daily schedule to be quite full with/without patients to see.

My hospital is a small Critical Access Hospital which will never be

large enough to not have working managers (managers who perform patient

care). My ideal ratio is 80% admin time/ 20% pt. care time.

I think it is reasonable for managers to work but, you will not be a

manger for long if you attempt to consistently carry a full caseload and

perform all of your managerial duties; let alone a great manager.

In our profession we proclaim to be healthcare providers and to promote

wellness. I will say that during the time that I was consistently

carrying a full caseload my wellness decreased due to putting in 50-60

hour weeks (or more) consistently. My health and my family suffered as

a result. I think we need to rethink some of our " busyness " .

There is a significant amount of research and literature on a leaders

" span of control " . Much of this comes from the military. The number of

people a leader can effectively lead is 5 to 7. Trying to lead 20-30

without assistance is a full-time job and then some. Also, people are

not managed, they are lead. You manage budgets, schedules, etc.

Continuing patient care is important for managers though. By continuing

to see some sort of caseload you will maintain the respect of your

staff. In my role I carry a caseload of out-patients and also find

myself covering for other staff when they are on vacation.

I hope this helps. Please feel free to contact me directly if you (or

anyone else) want some more thoughts on this.

Have a terrific week!

Chad Yoakam, MS, PT

Livingston HealthCare

Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient

load ?

A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two

administrators overseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff

strength around 9-12 including PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

My questions to the group...

In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient

care responsibilities ?

Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to

carry a 25-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively

small.

More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

referred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a

compulsory patient load ..

and

what is the average percentage of case load that

administrative/supervisory staff must carry ?

Thanks

Nat

MI

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Posted
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Nat,

I am talking from experience only, but feel that in order to properly understand

the needs of your staff, you ought to be one. That includes weekends, holidays,

cleaning the equipments, etc. as needed. I wouldn't expect anyone to respect a

director or administrator if they wouldn't do the same for the organization that

they expect a staff member to do. I like making decisions as to the direction

my department goes in, but want to be a part of it as well.

Matt Dvorak, PT

Yankton, SD

________________________________

From: PTManager on behalf of nits_physio

Sent: Sun 7/17/2011 10:46 AM

To: PTManager

Subject: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two administrators

overseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff strength around 9-12

including PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

My questions to the group...

In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient care

responsibilities ?

Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to carry a

25-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively small.

More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

referred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a compulsory

patient load ..

and

what is the average percentage of case load that administrative/supervisory

staff must carry ?

Thanks

Nat

MI

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Posted
Posted

I respect the opinions of those who feel that to be a good manager one must be

out there carrying a patient load with the rest of their staff, but I also think

that managers can be in touch with what's going on without necessarily needing

to be consistently carrying a patient load. Depending upon the organizational

structure and expectations, I would go so far as to say it is unrealistic to

expect that be the case when managing a large number of staff at multiple

clinics and cost centers.. We are expected to be out on the floors every day

" rounding " with staff, patients, and their families to gain feedback for

decision making. Then there are the safety initiatives in which we are expected

to be doing data submission of observations of hand hygiene and other infection

control practices compliance. Financially, in addition to budget development

and monitoring, we are doing daily productivity data submission for comparison

with our Premier Group Peers. Then there is the Information piece and

participation in efforts to continually improve our electronic documentation

tools, to hopefully increase staff efficiencies and documentation quality.

More recently we have started doing our staff annual reviews all to be completed

within a 2 month period, with " differential conversations " to occur again with

all staff 6 months later in addition to the daily rounding. We all take on

additional committee and task force responsibilities that require our

involvement not only within our main medical center but others throughout the

health system, many of which require a significant time commitment. Also we are

expected to participate in Leadership Development training and presentations

that are held on a regular basis for all staff at manager level on up. Add to

that program development in addition to the normal budget, hiring, staff

scheduling oversight, and everything else that is involved with effectively

managing a department as we strive to be a top decile performer.

Carol Rehder, PT

Manager, Physical Therapy

Genesis Medical Center

rehder@...

A J.D. Power and Associates

Distinguished Hospital for providing

" An Outstanding Patient Experience "

>>> " Matt Dvorak " 7/18/2011 1:30 PM >>>

Nat,

I am talking from experience only, but feel that in order to properly understand

the needs of your staff, you ought to be one. That includes weekends, holidays,

cleaning the equipments, etc. as needed. I wouldn't expect anyone to respect a

director or administrator if they wouldn't do the same for the organization that

they expect a staff member to do. I like making decisions as to the direction

my department goes in, but want to be a part of it as well.

Matt Dvorak, PT

Yankton, SD

________________________________

From: PTManager on behalf of nits_physio

Sent: Sun 7/17/2011 10:46 AM

To: PTManager

Subject: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two administrators

overseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff strength around 9-12

including PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

My questions to the group...

In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient care

responsibilities ?

Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to carry a

25-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively small.

More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

referred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a compulsory

patient load ..

and

what is the average percentage of case load that administrative/supervisory

staff must carry ?

Thanks

Nat

MI

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Posted
Posted

Carol -

I agree with your comments.

I " used " to be a working manager and I enjoyed the clinical hands-on and

being " visible " to my staff.

However, in the past three years, our organization has taken a strong

stand re: accountability and success determined by " outcomes " (as opposed

to effort).

My job description as a manager states that I am held accountable to

ensure that quality patient care is provided -- not to necessarily provide

it myself.

I am held accountable to all of the things that you mentioned below --

that is what my job as a manager is all about.

While I would love to be treating patients, it is unreasonable for me to

do everything you highlight below, and still work with patients. This is

particularly awkward with outpatients who schedule appointments in advance

because I am often called to meetings impromptu, or have to handle

customer service or risk management issues immediately, across two

separate buildings/facilities.

It is neither right nor wrong to be a clinical manager or an

administrative manager. So much depends upon the structure and size of the

organization, the size/location of the staff managers are responsible for,

and the specific expectations and accountabilities that are outlined in

the manager job description.

Years ago, I was a 60% admin/40% patient care manager, then I became a 90%

admin/10% manager. I am now essentially 100% manager.

A colleague often reminds me that as the manager, I am the " kingpin " who

removes the barriers so that my staff can do their job. - and that is a

full time job!

Great conversation!

Effie

Effie Elliott, PT

Manager PT/OT KGH

Bayhealth Medical Center

/6820 Office Number

Pager Number

Fax Number

effie_elliott@...

" Next to doing a good job yourself, the greatest joy is in having someone

else do a first-class job under your direction. " Feather,

American author & publisher

From:

" Carol Rehder "

To:

PTManager

Date:

07/19/2011 11:10 AM

Subject:

RE: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

Sent by:

PTManager

I respect the opinions of those who feel that to be a good manager one

must be out there carrying a patient load with the rest of their staff,

but I also think that managers can be in touch with what's going on

without necessarily needing to be consistently carrying a patient load.

Depending upon the organizational structure and expectations, I would go

so far as to say it is unrealistic to expect that be the case when

managing a large number of staff at multiple clinics and cost centers.. We

are expected to be out on the floors every day " rounding " with staff,

patients, and their families to gain feedback for decision making. Then

there are the safety initiatives in which we are expected to be doing data

submission of observations of hand hygiene and other infection control

practices compliance. Financially, in addition to budget development and

monitoring, we are doing daily productivity data submission for comparison

with our Premier Group Peers. Then there is the Information piece and

participation in efforts to continually improve our electronic

documentation tools, to hopefully increase staff efficiencies and

documentation quality. More recently we have started doing our staff

annual reviews all to be completed within a 2 month period, with

" differential conversations " to occur again with all staff 6 months later

in addition to the daily rounding. We all take on additional committee and

task force responsibilities that require our involvement not only within

our main medical center but others throughout the health system, many of

which require a significant time commitment. Also we are expected to

participate in Leadership Development training and presentations that are

held on a regular basis for all staff at manager level on up. Add to that

program development in addition to the normal budget, hiring, staff

scheduling oversight, and everything else that is involved with

effectively managing a department as we strive to be a top decile

performer.

Carol Rehder, PT

Manager, Physical Therapy

Genesis Medical Center

rehder@...

A J.D. Power and Associates

Distinguished Hospital for providing

" An Outstanding Patient Experience "

>>> " Matt Dvorak " 7/18/2011 1:30 PM >>>

Nat,

I am talking from experience only, but feel that in order to properly

understand the needs of your staff, you ought to be one. That includes

weekends, holidays, cleaning the equipments, etc. as needed. I wouldn't

expect anyone to respect a director or administrator if they wouldn't do

the same for the organization that they expect a staff member to do. I

like making decisions as to the direction my department goes in, but want

to be a part of it as well.

Matt Dvorak, PT

Yankton, SD

________________________________

From: PTManager on behalf of nits_physio

Sent: Sun 7/17/2011 10:46 AM

To: PTManager

Subject: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load

?

A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two

administrators overseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff

strength around 9-12 including PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

My questions to the group...

In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient

care responsibilities ?

Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to

carry a 25-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively

small.

More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

referred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a compulsory

patient load ..

and

what is the average percentage of case load that

administrative/supervisory staff must carry ?

Thanks

Nat

MI

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Posted
Posted

Well said, Carol and Dick.

In traversing the country and speaking with leaders throughout all rehab

practice areas, 80-90% carry some type of patient load. Very common.

Speaking from a healthcare-hospital based perspective: It is very difficult, if

not impossible, to wear both hats on a daily basis and perform at one's best.

Many therapists are pulled regularly to patient care due to the staffing

challenge of the day- whether census fluctuation, PTO, associate illness,

" walk-in " client, etc.

As a result, the " less urgent " work that Carol portrays is pushed off to the

evenings or weekends or lunch or 630 AM meeting or, not completed at all. As an

" exempt " employee, we can work as

may hours as we want- lucky us! As noted, working in patient care provides the

value of being in touch with our team and learning new perspectives that we

would not otherwise see being

behind the desk or in a meeting. Of course, most patients appreciate us and give

us the warm fuzzy. Not the same feeling in leading and managing others!

I remember very vividly during one of my numerous computer " go live " events on a

Sunday being " thanked " by the COO (my boss's boss) for being on the floor

supporting the team and helping to

see patients. I thought I was going to VOMI _ (be ill). Little did he know that

I had working the past YEAR on almost each Sunday, all day, due to a prolonged

staffing shortage.

When we are not at the table, in meetings that discuss system strategy, or

budgets, or new policies, or capital, or FTEs, or countless other information

details, or have the time

to network and build relationships with executives, physicians, nurses,

pharmacists, RTs, CFOs, or sending emails, communicating with our elected

officials, etc. in the long term,

our rehab and PT presence suffers.

Carol, you forgot one thing :)

We are now in charge and accountable for our associates' engagement. I love it!

Ed Dobrzykowski, PT, DPT, ATC, MHS

System Director, Rehab Services and Sports Medicine

St. Healthcare

Edgewood, KY

RE: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

respect the opinions of those who feel that to be a good manager one must be

ut there carrying a patient load with the rest of their staff, but I also think

hat managers can be in touch with what's going on without necessarily needing

o be consistently carrying a patient load. Depending upon the organizational

tructure and expectations, I would go so far as to say it is unrealistic to

xpect that be the case when managing a large number of staff at multiple

linics and cost centers.. We are expected to be out on the floors every day

rounding " with staff, patients, and their families to gain feedback for

ecision making. Then there are the safety initiatives in which we are expected

o be doing data submission of observations of hand hygiene and other infection

ontrol practices compliance. Financially, in addition to budget development

nd monitoring, we are doing daily productivity data submission for comparison

ith our Premier Group Peers. Then there is the In

formation piece and participation in efforts to continually improve our

lectronic documentation tools, to hopefully increase staff efficiencies and

ocumentation quality. More recently we have started doing our staff annual

eviews all to be completed within a 2 month period, with " differential

onversations " to occur again with all staff 6 months later in addition to the

aily rounding. We all take on additional committee and task force

esponsibilities that require our involvement not only within our main medical

enter but others throughout the health system, many of which require a

ignificant time commitment. Also we are expected to participate in Leadership

evelopment training and presentations that are held on a regular basis for all

taff at manager level on up. Add to that program development in addition to

he normal budget, hiring, staff scheduling oversight, and everything else that

s involved with effectively managing a department as we strive to be a t

op decile performer.

Carol Rehder, PT

anager, Physical Therapy

enesis Medical Center

563) 421-1475

ehder@...

J.D. Power and Associates

istinguished Hospital for providing

An Outstanding Patient Experience "

>>> " Matt Dvorak " 7/18/2011 1:30 PM >>>

at,

am talking from experience only, but feel that in order to properly understand

he needs of your staff, you ought to be one. That includes weekends, holidays,

leaning the equipments, etc. as needed. I wouldn't expect anyone to respect a

irector or administrator if they wouldn't do the same for the organization that

hey expect a staff member to do. I like making decisions as to the direction

y department goes in, but want to be a part of it as well.

att Dvorak, PT

ankton, SD

________________________________

From: PTManager on behalf of nits_physio

ent: Sun 7/17/2011 10:46 AM

o: PTManager

ubject: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two administrators

verseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff strength around 9-12

ncluding PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

My questions to the group...

In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient care

esponsibilities ?

Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to carry a

5-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively small.

More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

eferred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a compulsory

atient load ..

and

what is the average percentage of case load that administrative/supervisory

taff must carry ?

Thanks

at

I

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PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices ONLY "

essages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

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OTA or ASHA and participate now!

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In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline and

our location or else your message will not be approved to send to the full

roup.

Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat to our

rofessions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model practices. The

escription of PTManager group includes the following:

PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices ONLY "

essages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join APTA,

OTA or ASHA and participate now!

Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

TManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

ahoo! Groups Links

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Posted
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I think in the world of decreasing reimbursement and slimmer margins, licensed

clinicians need to look at their job demands and decide if they are the most

appropriate staff member to be performing that function? Should a licensed

clinician be performing hand hygiene monitoring or can this be delegated to

someone else. Does the license clinician need to be developing all of the

reports or can the front office and then review the data as a group. Can

someone else in the hospital system hired to do QA full time take some of the

responsibility? If we are not seeing patients, we are increasing the over head.

It does take the right staff and is hard to do both. I also realize this can

not be the case in all settings and that I have a great staff that allows me to

do both. It is just food for thought.

Trevor Huffman P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.,C.

Board Certified Sports Physical Therapist

Director of Rehabilitation Services

Passavant Area Hospital

ville, IL 62650

trevor.huffman@...

________________________________

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of

edobski@...

Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:00 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

Well said, Carol and Dick.

In traversing the country and speaking with leaders throughout all rehab

practice areas, 80-90% carry some type of patient load. Very common.

Speaking from a healthcare-hospital based perspective: It is very difficult, if

not impossible, to wear both hats on a daily basis and perform at one's best.

Many therapists are pulled regularly to patient care due to the staffing

challenge of the day- whether census fluctuation, PTO, associate illness,

" walk-in " client, etc.

As a result, the " less urgent " work that Carol portrays is pushed off to the

evenings or weekends or lunch or 630 AM meeting or, not completed at all. As an

" exempt " employee, we can work as

may hours as we want- lucky us! As noted, working in patient care provides the

value of being in touch with our team and learning new perspectives that we

would not otherwise see being

behind the desk or in a meeting. Of course, most patients appreciate us and give

us the warm fuzzy. Not the same feeling in leading and managing others!

I remember very vividly during one of my numerous computer " go live " events on a

Sunday being " thanked " by the COO (my boss's boss) for being on the floor

supporting the team and helping to

see patients. I thought I was going to VOMI _ (be ill). Little did he know that

I had working the past YEAR on almost each Sunday, all day, due to a prolonged

staffing shortage.

When we are not at the table, in meetings that discuss system strategy, or

budgets, or new policies, or capital, or FTEs, or countless other information

details, or have the time

to network and build relationships with executives, physicians, nurses,

pharmacists, RTs, CFOs, or sending emails, communicating with our elected

officials, etc. in the long term,

our rehab and PT presence suffers.

Carol, you forgot one thing :)

We are now in charge and accountable for our associates' engagement. I love it!

Ed Dobrzykowski, PT, DPT, ATC, MHS

System Director, Rehab Services and Sports Medicine

St. Healthcare

Edgewood, KY

RE: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

respect the opinions of those who feel that to be a good manager one must be

ut there carrying a patient load with the rest of their staff, but I also think

hat managers can be in touch with what's going on without necessarily needing

o be consistently carrying a patient load. Depending upon the organizational

tructure and expectations, I would go so far as to say it is unrealistic to

xpect that be the case when managing a large number of staff at multiple

linics and cost centers.. We are expected to be out on the floors every day

rounding " with staff, patients, and their families to gain feedback for

ecision making. Then there are the safety initiatives in which we are expected

o be doing data submission of observations of hand hygiene and other infection

ontrol practices compliance. Financially, in addition to budget development

nd monitoring, we are doing daily productivity data submission for comparison

ith our Premier Group Peers. Then there is the In

formation piece and participation in efforts to continually improve our

lectronic documentation tools, to hopefully increase staff efficiencies and

ocumentation quality. More recently we have started doing our staff annual

eviews all to be completed within a 2 month period, with " differential

onversations " to occur again with all staff 6 months later in addition to the

aily rounding. We all take on additional committee and task force

esponsibilities that require our involvement not only within our main medical

enter but others throughout the health system, many of which require a

ignificant time commitment. Also we are expected to participate in Leadership

evelopment training and presentations that are held on a regular basis for all

taff at manager level on up. Add to that program development in addition to

he normal budget, hiring, staff scheduling oversight, and everything else that

s involved with effectively managing a department as we strive to be a t

op decile performer.

Carol Rehder, PT

anager, Physical Therapy

enesis Medical Center

563) 421-1475

ehder@...<mailto:ehder%40genesishealth.com>

J.D. Power and Associates

istinguished Hospital for providing

An Outstanding Patient Experience "

>>> " Matt Dvorak " <mdvorak@...<mailto:mdvorak%40SDLCSH.COM>> 7/18/2011

1:30 PM >>>

at,

am talking from experience only, but feel that in order to properly understand

he needs of your staff, you ought to be one. That includes weekends, holidays,

leaning the equipments, etc. as needed. I wouldn't expect anyone to respect a

irector or administrator if they wouldn't do the same for the organization that

hey expect a staff member to do. I like making decisions as to the direction

y department goes in, but want to be a part of it as well.

att Dvorak, PT

ankton, SD

________________________________

From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of

nits_physio

ent: Sun 7/17/2011 10:46 AM

o: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

ubject: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two administrators

verseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff strength around 9-12

ncluding PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

My questions to the group...

In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient care

esponsibilities ?

Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to carry a

5-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively small.

More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

eferred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a compulsory

atient load ..

and

what is the average percentage of case load that administrative/supervisory

taff must carry ?

Thanks

at

I

Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline and

our location or else your message will not be approved to send to the full

roup.

Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat to our

rofessions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model practices. The

escription of PTManager group includes the following:

PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices ONLY "

essages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join APTA,

OTA or ASHA and participate now!

Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

TManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

ahoo! Groups Links

OTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or

ntity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,

onfidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of

his communication is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent

esponsible for delivering the communication, you are hereby notified that any

issemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly

rohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me

mmediately by replying to this email.

REMINDER: The disclosure of medical information is strictly prohibited by

ederal regulation. Unauthorized release of medical information may result in

dministrative, civil and criminal sanctions.

Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline and

our location or else your message will not be approved to send to the full

roup.

Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat to our

rofessions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model practices. The

escription of PTManager group includes the following:

PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices ONLY "

essages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join APTA,

OTA or ASHA and participate now!

Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

TManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

ahoo! Groups Links

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Posted
Posted

I think in the world of decreasing reimbursement and slimmer margins, licensed

clinicians need to look at their job demands and decide if they are the most

appropriate staff member to be performing that function? Should a licensed

clinician be performing hand hygiene monitoring or can this be delegated to

someone else. Does the license clinician need to be developing all of the

reports or can the front office and then review the data as a group. Can

someone else in the hospital system hired to do QA full time take some of the

responsibility? If we are not seeing patients, we are increasing the over head.

It does take the right staff and is hard to do both. I also realize this can

not be the case in all settings and that I have a great staff that allows me to

do both. It is just food for thought.

Trevor Huffman P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.,C.

Board Certified Sports Physical Therapist

Director of Rehabilitation Services

Passavant Area Hospital

ville, IL 62650

trevor.huffman@...

________________________________

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of

edobski@...

Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:00 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

Well said, Carol and Dick.

In traversing the country and speaking with leaders throughout all rehab

practice areas, 80-90% carry some type of patient load. Very common.

Speaking from a healthcare-hospital based perspective: It is very difficult, if

not impossible, to wear both hats on a daily basis and perform at one's best.

Many therapists are pulled regularly to patient care due to the staffing

challenge of the day- whether census fluctuation, PTO, associate illness,

" walk-in " client, etc.

As a result, the " less urgent " work that Carol portrays is pushed off to the

evenings or weekends or lunch or 630 AM meeting or, not completed at all. As an

" exempt " employee, we can work as

may hours as we want- lucky us! As noted, working in patient care provides the

value of being in touch with our team and learning new perspectives that we

would not otherwise see being

behind the desk or in a meeting. Of course, most patients appreciate us and give

us the warm fuzzy. Not the same feeling in leading and managing others!

I remember very vividly during one of my numerous computer " go live " events on a

Sunday being " thanked " by the COO (my boss's boss) for being on the floor

supporting the team and helping to

see patients. I thought I was going to VOMI _ (be ill). Little did he know that

I had working the past YEAR on almost each Sunday, all day, due to a prolonged

staffing shortage.

When we are not at the table, in meetings that discuss system strategy, or

budgets, or new policies, or capital, or FTEs, or countless other information

details, or have the time

to network and build relationships with executives, physicians, nurses,

pharmacists, RTs, CFOs, or sending emails, communicating with our elected

officials, etc. in the long term,

our rehab and PT presence suffers.

Carol, you forgot one thing :)

We are now in charge and accountable for our associates' engagement. I love it!

Ed Dobrzykowski, PT, DPT, ATC, MHS

System Director, Rehab Services and Sports Medicine

St. Healthcare

Edgewood, KY

RE: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

respect the opinions of those who feel that to be a good manager one must be

ut there carrying a patient load with the rest of their staff, but I also think

hat managers can be in touch with what's going on without necessarily needing

o be consistently carrying a patient load. Depending upon the organizational

tructure and expectations, I would go so far as to say it is unrealistic to

xpect that be the case when managing a large number of staff at multiple

linics and cost centers.. We are expected to be out on the floors every day

rounding " with staff, patients, and their families to gain feedback for

ecision making. Then there are the safety initiatives in which we are expected

o be doing data submission of observations of hand hygiene and other infection

ontrol practices compliance. Financially, in addition to budget development

nd monitoring, we are doing daily productivity data submission for comparison

ith our Premier Group Peers. Then there is the In

formation piece and participation in efforts to continually improve our

lectronic documentation tools, to hopefully increase staff efficiencies and

ocumentation quality. More recently we have started doing our staff annual

eviews all to be completed within a 2 month period, with " differential

onversations " to occur again with all staff 6 months later in addition to the

aily rounding. We all take on additional committee and task force

esponsibilities that require our involvement not only within our main medical

enter but others throughout the health system, many of which require a

ignificant time commitment. Also we are expected to participate in Leadership

evelopment training and presentations that are held on a regular basis for all

taff at manager level on up. Add to that program development in addition to

he normal budget, hiring, staff scheduling oversight, and everything else that

s involved with effectively managing a department as we strive to be a t

op decile performer.

Carol Rehder, PT

anager, Physical Therapy

enesis Medical Center

563) 421-1475

ehder@...<mailto:ehder%40genesishealth.com>

J.D. Power and Associates

istinguished Hospital for providing

An Outstanding Patient Experience "

>>> " Matt Dvorak " <mdvorak@...<mailto:mdvorak%40SDLCSH.COM>> 7/18/2011

1:30 PM >>>

at,

am talking from experience only, but feel that in order to properly understand

he needs of your staff, you ought to be one. That includes weekends, holidays,

leaning the equipments, etc. as needed. I wouldn't expect anyone to respect a

irector or administrator if they wouldn't do the same for the organization that

hey expect a staff member to do. I like making decisions as to the direction

y department goes in, but want to be a part of it as well.

att Dvorak, PT

ankton, SD

________________________________

From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of

nits_physio

ent: Sun 7/17/2011 10:46 AM

o: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

ubject: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two administrators

verseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff strength around 9-12

ncluding PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

My questions to the group...

In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient care

esponsibilities ?

Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to carry a

5-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively small.

More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

eferred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a compulsory

atient load ..

and

what is the average percentage of case load that administrative/supervisory

taff must carry ?

Thanks

at

I

Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline and

our location or else your message will not be approved to send to the full

roup.

Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat to our

rofessions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model practices. The

escription of PTManager group includes the following:

PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices ONLY "

essages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join APTA,

OTA or ASHA and participate now!

Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

TManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

ahoo! Groups Links

OTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or

ntity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,

onfidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of

his communication is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent

esponsible for delivering the communication, you are hereby notified that any

issemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly

rohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me

mmediately by replying to this email.

REMINDER: The disclosure of medical information is strictly prohibited by

ederal regulation. Unauthorized release of medical information may result in

dministrative, civil and criminal sanctions.

Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline and

our location or else your message will not be approved to send to the full

roup.

Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat to our

rofessions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model practices. The

escription of PTManager group includes the following:

PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices ONLY "

essages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join APTA,

OTA or ASHA and participate now!

Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

TManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

ahoo! Groups Links

Individual Email | Traditional

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

I think in the world of decreasing reimbursement and slimmer margins, licensed

clinicians need to look at their job demands and decide if they are the most

appropriate staff member to be performing that function? Should a licensed

clinician be performing hand hygiene monitoring or can this be delegated to

someone else. Does the license clinician need to be developing all of the

reports or can the front office and then review the data as a group. Can

someone else in the hospital system hired to do QA full time take some of the

responsibility? If we are not seeing patients, we are increasing the over head.

It does take the right staff and is hard to do both. I also realize this can

not be the case in all settings and that I have a great staff that allows me to

do both. It is just food for thought.

Trevor Huffman P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.,C.

Board Certified Sports Physical Therapist

Director of Rehabilitation Services

Passavant Area Hospital

ville, IL 62650

trevor.huffman@...

________________________________

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of

edobski@...

Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:00 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

Well said, Carol and Dick.

In traversing the country and speaking with leaders throughout all rehab

practice areas, 80-90% carry some type of patient load. Very common.

Speaking from a healthcare-hospital based perspective: It is very difficult, if

not impossible, to wear both hats on a daily basis and perform at one's best.

Many therapists are pulled regularly to patient care due to the staffing

challenge of the day- whether census fluctuation, PTO, associate illness,

" walk-in " client, etc.

As a result, the " less urgent " work that Carol portrays is pushed off to the

evenings or weekends or lunch or 630 AM meeting or, not completed at all. As an

" exempt " employee, we can work as

may hours as we want- lucky us! As noted, working in patient care provides the

value of being in touch with our team and learning new perspectives that we

would not otherwise see being

behind the desk or in a meeting. Of course, most patients appreciate us and give

us the warm fuzzy. Not the same feeling in leading and managing others!

I remember very vividly during one of my numerous computer " go live " events on a

Sunday being " thanked " by the COO (my boss's boss) for being on the floor

supporting the team and helping to

see patients. I thought I was going to VOMI _ (be ill). Little did he know that

I had working the past YEAR on almost each Sunday, all day, due to a prolonged

staffing shortage.

When we are not at the table, in meetings that discuss system strategy, or

budgets, or new policies, or capital, or FTEs, or countless other information

details, or have the time

to network and build relationships with executives, physicians, nurses,

pharmacists, RTs, CFOs, or sending emails, communicating with our elected

officials, etc. in the long term,

our rehab and PT presence suffers.

Carol, you forgot one thing :)

We are now in charge and accountable for our associates' engagement. I love it!

Ed Dobrzykowski, PT, DPT, ATC, MHS

System Director, Rehab Services and Sports Medicine

St. Healthcare

Edgewood, KY

RE: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

respect the opinions of those who feel that to be a good manager one must be

ut there carrying a patient load with the rest of their staff, but I also think

hat managers can be in touch with what's going on without necessarily needing

o be consistently carrying a patient load. Depending upon the organizational

tructure and expectations, I would go so far as to say it is unrealistic to

xpect that be the case when managing a large number of staff at multiple

linics and cost centers.. We are expected to be out on the floors every day

rounding " with staff, patients, and their families to gain feedback for

ecision making. Then there are the safety initiatives in which we are expected

o be doing data submission of observations of hand hygiene and other infection

ontrol practices compliance. Financially, in addition to budget development

nd monitoring, we are doing daily productivity data submission for comparison

ith our Premier Group Peers. Then there is the In

formation piece and participation in efforts to continually improve our

lectronic documentation tools, to hopefully increase staff efficiencies and

ocumentation quality. More recently we have started doing our staff annual

eviews all to be completed within a 2 month period, with " differential

onversations " to occur again with all staff 6 months later in addition to the

aily rounding. We all take on additional committee and task force

esponsibilities that require our involvement not only within our main medical

enter but others throughout the health system, many of which require a

ignificant time commitment. Also we are expected to participate in Leadership

evelopment training and presentations that are held on a regular basis for all

taff at manager level on up. Add to that program development in addition to

he normal budget, hiring, staff scheduling oversight, and everything else that

s involved with effectively managing a department as we strive to be a t

op decile performer.

Carol Rehder, PT

anager, Physical Therapy

enesis Medical Center

563) 421-1475

ehder@...<mailto:ehder%40genesishealth.com>

J.D. Power and Associates

istinguished Hospital for providing

An Outstanding Patient Experience "

>>> " Matt Dvorak " <mdvorak@...<mailto:mdvorak%40SDLCSH.COM>> 7/18/2011

1:30 PM >>>

at,

am talking from experience only, but feel that in order to properly understand

he needs of your staff, you ought to be one. That includes weekends, holidays,

leaning the equipments, etc. as needed. I wouldn't expect anyone to respect a

irector or administrator if they wouldn't do the same for the organization that

hey expect a staff member to do. I like making decisions as to the direction

y department goes in, but want to be a part of it as well.

att Dvorak, PT

ankton, SD

________________________________

From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of

nits_physio

ent: Sun 7/17/2011 10:46 AM

o: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

ubject: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two administrators

verseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff strength around 9-12

ncluding PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

My questions to the group...

In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient care

esponsibilities ?

Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to carry a

5-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively small.

More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

eferred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a compulsory

atient load ..

and

what is the average percentage of case load that administrative/supervisory

taff must carry ?

Thanks

at

I

Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline and

our location or else your message will not be approved to send to the full

roup.

Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat to our

rofessions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model practices. The

escription of PTManager group includes the following:

PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices ONLY "

essages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join APTA,

OTA or ASHA and participate now!

Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

TManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

ahoo! Groups Links

OTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or

ntity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,

onfidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of

his communication is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent

esponsible for delivering the communication, you are hereby notified that any

issemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly

rohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me

mmediately by replying to this email.

REMINDER: The disclosure of medical information is strictly prohibited by

ederal regulation. Unauthorized release of medical information may result in

dministrative, civil and criminal sanctions.

Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline and

our location or else your message will not be approved to send to the full

roup.

Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat to our

rofessions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model practices. The

escription of PTManager group includes the following:

PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices ONLY "

essages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join APTA,

OTA or ASHA and participate now!

Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

TManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

ahoo! Groups Links

Individual Email | Traditional

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Excellent post Trevor, obviously different settings produce different demands

but in the outpatient setting there is nothing that a liscensed director can do

that will generate more revenue than using that liscense to treat patients. I

am very fortunate to have a practice manager that I trust to handle the

administrative demands of the office, she is not liscensed but is married to and

lives with a PT (me) so she recognizes the demands if the profession. She also

doesn't get paid nearly what she is worth but that is more a reality of

reimbursement. I don't know how our facility would survive if I had to pay a PT

salary to a PT who wasn't treating patients.

E s, PT, DPT, OCS, FAAOMPT

www.douglasspt.com

>

> I think in the world of decreasing reimbursement and slimmer margins, licensed

clinicians need to look at their job demands and decide if they are the most

appropriate staff member to be performing that function? Should a licensed

clinician be performing hand hygiene monitoring or can this be delegated to

someone else. Does the license clinician need to be developing all of the

reports or can the front office and then review the data as a group. Can

someone else in the hospital system hired to do QA full time take some of the

responsibility? If we are not seeing patients, we are increasing the over head.

It does take the right staff and is hard to do both. I also realize this can

not be the case in all settings and that I have a great staff that allows me to

do both. It is just food for thought.

>

> Trevor Huffman P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.,C.

> Board Certified Sports Physical Therapist

> Director of Rehabilitation Services

> Passavant Area Hospital

> ville, IL 62650

> trevor.huffman@...

> ________________________________

> From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf

Of edobski@...

> Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:00 PM

> To: PTManager

> Subject: Re: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load

?

>

>

>

> Well said, Carol and Dick.

>

> In traversing the country and speaking with leaders throughout all rehab

practice areas, 80-90% carry some type of patient load. Very common.

> Speaking from a healthcare-hospital based perspective: It is very difficult,

if not impossible, to wear both hats on a daily basis and perform at one's best.

>

> Many therapists are pulled regularly to patient care due to the staffing

challenge of the day- whether census fluctuation, PTO, associate illness,

" walk-in " client, etc.

> As a result, the " less urgent " work that Carol portrays is pushed off to the

evenings or weekends or lunch or 630 AM meeting or, not completed at all. As an

" exempt " employee, we can work as

> may hours as we want- lucky us! As noted, working in patient care provides the

value of being in touch with our team and learning new perspectives that we

would not otherwise see being

> behind the desk or in a meeting. Of course, most patients appreciate us and

give us the warm fuzzy. Not the same feeling in leading and managing others!

>

> I remember very vividly during one of my numerous computer " go live " events on

a Sunday being " thanked " by the COO (my boss's boss) for being on the floor

supporting the team and helping to

> see patients. I thought I was going to VOMI _ (be ill). Little did he know

that I had working the past YEAR on almost each Sunday, all day, due to a

prolonged staffing shortage.

>

> When we are not at the table, in meetings that discuss system strategy, or

budgets, or new policies, or capital, or FTEs, or countless other information

details, or have the time

> to network and build relationships with executives, physicians, nurses,

pharmacists, RTs, CFOs, or sending emails, communicating with our elected

officials, etc. in the long term,

> our rehab and PT presence suffers.

>

> Carol, you forgot one thing :)

> We are now in charge and accountable for our associates' engagement. I love

it!

>

> Ed Dobrzykowski, PT, DPT, ATC, MHS

> System Director, Rehab Services and Sports Medicine

> St. Healthcare

> Edgewood, KY

>

> RE: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load

?

>

> respect the opinions of those who feel that to be a good manager one must be

> ut there carrying a patient load with the rest of their staff, but I also

think

> hat managers can be in touch with what's going on without necessarily needing

> o be consistently carrying a patient load. Depending upon the organizational

> tructure and expectations, I would go so far as to say it is unrealistic to

> xpect that be the case when managing a large number of staff at multiple

> linics and cost centers.. We are expected to be out on the floors every day

> rounding " with staff, patients, and their families to gain feedback for

> ecision making. Then there are the safety initiatives in which we are expected

> o be doing data submission of observations of hand hygiene and other infection

> ontrol practices compliance. Financially, in addition to budget development

> nd monitoring, we are doing daily productivity data submission for comparison

> ith our Premier Group Peers. Then there is the In

> formation piece and participation in efforts to continually improve our

> lectronic documentation tools, to hopefully increase staff efficiencies and

> ocumentation quality. More recently we have started doing our staff annual

> eviews all to be completed within a 2 month period, with " differential

> onversations " to occur again with all staff 6 months later in addition to the

> aily rounding. We all take on additional committee and task force

> esponsibilities that require our involvement not only within our main medical

> enter but others throughout the health system, many of which require a

> ignificant time commitment. Also we are expected to participate in Leadership

> evelopment training and presentations that are held on a regular basis for all

> taff at manager level on up. Add to that program development in addition to

> he normal budget, hiring, staff scheduling oversight, and everything else that

> s involved with effectively managing a department as we strive to be a t

> op decile performer.

> Carol Rehder, PT

> anager, Physical Therapy

> enesis Medical Center

> 563) 421-1475

> ehder@...<mailto:ehder%40genesishealth.com>

>

> J.D. Power and Associates

> istinguished Hospital for providing

> An Outstanding Patient Experience "

> >>> " Matt Dvorak " <mdvorak@...<mailto:mdvorak%40SDLCSH.COM>> 7/18/2011 1:30 PM

>>>

> at,

> am talking from experience only, but feel that in order to properly understand

> he needs of your staff, you ought to be one. That includes weekends, holidays,

> leaning the equipments, etc. as needed. I wouldn't expect anyone to respect a

> irector or administrator if they wouldn't do the same for the organization

that

> hey expect a staff member to do. I like making decisions as to the direction

> y department goes in, but want to be a part of it as well.

> att Dvorak, PT

> ankton, SD

> ________________________________

> From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf

of nits_physio

> ent: Sun 7/17/2011 10:46 AM

> o: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> ubject: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

>

> A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two administrators

> verseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff strength around 9-12

> ncluding PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

> My questions to the group...

> In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

> Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient care

> esponsibilities ?

> Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to carry a

> 5-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively small.

> More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

> eferred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a compulsory

> atient load ..

> and

> what is the average percentage of case load that administrative/supervisory

> taff must carry ?

> Thanks

> at

> I

>

> Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> ------------------------------------

> In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline and

> our location or else your message will not be approved to send to the full

> roup.

> Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat to our

> rofessions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model practices. The

> escription of PTManager group includes the following:

> PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices ONLY "

> essages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

APTA,

> OTA or ASHA and participate now!

> Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> TManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> ahoo! Groups Links

>

> OTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or

> ntity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,

> onfidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of

> his communication is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent

> esponsible for delivering the communication, you are hereby notified that any

> issemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly

> rohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me

> mmediately by replying to this email.

> REMINDER: The disclosure of medical information is strictly prohibited by

> ederal regulation. Unauthorized release of medical information may result in

> dministrative, civil and criminal sanctions.

>

> Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> ------------------------------------

> In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline and

> our location or else your message will not be approved to send to the full

> roup.

> Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat to our

> rofessions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model practices. The

> escription of PTManager group includes the following:

> PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices ONLY "

> essages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

APTA,

> OTA or ASHA and participate now!

> Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> TManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> ahoo! Groups Links

> Individual Email | Traditional

> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Excellent post Trevor, obviously different settings produce different demands

but in the outpatient setting there is nothing that a liscensed director can do

that will generate more revenue than using that liscense to treat patients. I

am very fortunate to have a practice manager that I trust to handle the

administrative demands of the office, she is not liscensed but is married to and

lives with a PT (me) so she recognizes the demands if the profession. She also

doesn't get paid nearly what she is worth but that is more a reality of

reimbursement. I don't know how our facility would survive if I had to pay a PT

salary to a PT who wasn't treating patients.

E s, PT, DPT, OCS, FAAOMPT

www.douglasspt.com

>

> I think in the world of decreasing reimbursement and slimmer margins, licensed

clinicians need to look at their job demands and decide if they are the most

appropriate staff member to be performing that function? Should a licensed

clinician be performing hand hygiene monitoring or can this be delegated to

someone else. Does the license clinician need to be developing all of the

reports or can the front office and then review the data as a group. Can

someone else in the hospital system hired to do QA full time take some of the

responsibility? If we are not seeing patients, we are increasing the over head.

It does take the right staff and is hard to do both. I also realize this can

not be the case in all settings and that I have a great staff that allows me to

do both. It is just food for thought.

>

> Trevor Huffman P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.,C.

> Board Certified Sports Physical Therapist

> Director of Rehabilitation Services

> Passavant Area Hospital

> ville, IL 62650

> trevor.huffman@...

> ________________________________

> From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf

Of edobski@...

> Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:00 PM

> To: PTManager

> Subject: Re: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load

?

>

>

>

> Well said, Carol and Dick.

>

> In traversing the country and speaking with leaders throughout all rehab

practice areas, 80-90% carry some type of patient load. Very common.

> Speaking from a healthcare-hospital based perspective: It is very difficult,

if not impossible, to wear both hats on a daily basis and perform at one's best.

>

> Many therapists are pulled regularly to patient care due to the staffing

challenge of the day- whether census fluctuation, PTO, associate illness,

" walk-in " client, etc.

> As a result, the " less urgent " work that Carol portrays is pushed off to the

evenings or weekends or lunch or 630 AM meeting or, not completed at all. As an

" exempt " employee, we can work as

> may hours as we want- lucky us! As noted, working in patient care provides the

value of being in touch with our team and learning new perspectives that we

would not otherwise see being

> behind the desk or in a meeting. Of course, most patients appreciate us and

give us the warm fuzzy. Not the same feeling in leading and managing others!

>

> I remember very vividly during one of my numerous computer " go live " events on

a Sunday being " thanked " by the COO (my boss's boss) for being on the floor

supporting the team and helping to

> see patients. I thought I was going to VOMI _ (be ill). Little did he know

that I had working the past YEAR on almost each Sunday, all day, due to a

prolonged staffing shortage.

>

> When we are not at the table, in meetings that discuss system strategy, or

budgets, or new policies, or capital, or FTEs, or countless other information

details, or have the time

> to network and build relationships with executives, physicians, nurses,

pharmacists, RTs, CFOs, or sending emails, communicating with our elected

officials, etc. in the long term,

> our rehab and PT presence suffers.

>

> Carol, you forgot one thing :)

> We are now in charge and accountable for our associates' engagement. I love

it!

>

> Ed Dobrzykowski, PT, DPT, ATC, MHS

> System Director, Rehab Services and Sports Medicine

> St. Healthcare

> Edgewood, KY

>

> RE: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load

?

>

> respect the opinions of those who feel that to be a good manager one must be

> ut there carrying a patient load with the rest of their staff, but I also

think

> hat managers can be in touch with what's going on without necessarily needing

> o be consistently carrying a patient load. Depending upon the organizational

> tructure and expectations, I would go so far as to say it is unrealistic to

> xpect that be the case when managing a large number of staff at multiple

> linics and cost centers.. We are expected to be out on the floors every day

> rounding " with staff, patients, and their families to gain feedback for

> ecision making. Then there are the safety initiatives in which we are expected

> o be doing data submission of observations of hand hygiene and other infection

> ontrol practices compliance. Financially, in addition to budget development

> nd monitoring, we are doing daily productivity data submission for comparison

> ith our Premier Group Peers. Then there is the In

> formation piece and participation in efforts to continually improve our

> lectronic documentation tools, to hopefully increase staff efficiencies and

> ocumentation quality. More recently we have started doing our staff annual

> eviews all to be completed within a 2 month period, with " differential

> onversations " to occur again with all staff 6 months later in addition to the

> aily rounding. We all take on additional committee and task force

> esponsibilities that require our involvement not only within our main medical

> enter but others throughout the health system, many of which require a

> ignificant time commitment. Also we are expected to participate in Leadership

> evelopment training and presentations that are held on a regular basis for all

> taff at manager level on up. Add to that program development in addition to

> he normal budget, hiring, staff scheduling oversight, and everything else that

> s involved with effectively managing a department as we strive to be a t

> op decile performer.

> Carol Rehder, PT

> anager, Physical Therapy

> enesis Medical Center

> 563) 421-1475

> ehder@...<mailto:ehder%40genesishealth.com>

>

> J.D. Power and Associates

> istinguished Hospital for providing

> An Outstanding Patient Experience "

> >>> " Matt Dvorak " <mdvorak@...<mailto:mdvorak%40SDLCSH.COM>> 7/18/2011 1:30 PM

>>>

> at,

> am talking from experience only, but feel that in order to properly understand

> he needs of your staff, you ought to be one. That includes weekends, holidays,

> leaning the equipments, etc. as needed. I wouldn't expect anyone to respect a

> irector or administrator if they wouldn't do the same for the organization

that

> hey expect a staff member to do. I like making decisions as to the direction

> y department goes in, but want to be a part of it as well.

> att Dvorak, PT

> ankton, SD

> ________________________________

> From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf

of nits_physio

> ent: Sun 7/17/2011 10:46 AM

> o: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> ubject: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

>

> A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two administrators

> verseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff strength around 9-12

> ncluding PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

> My questions to the group...

> In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

> Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient care

> esponsibilities ?

> Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to carry a

> 5-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively small.

> More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

> eferred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a compulsory

> atient load ..

> and

> what is the average percentage of case load that administrative/supervisory

> taff must carry ?

> Thanks

> at

> I

>

> Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> ------------------------------------

> In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline and

> our location or else your message will not be approved to send to the full

> roup.

> Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat to our

> rofessions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model practices. The

> escription of PTManager group includes the following:

> PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices ONLY "

> essages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

APTA,

> OTA or ASHA and participate now!

> Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> TManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> ahoo! Groups Links

>

> OTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or

> ntity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,

> onfidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of

> his communication is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent

> esponsible for delivering the communication, you are hereby notified that any

> issemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly

> rohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me

> mmediately by replying to this email.

> REMINDER: The disclosure of medical information is strictly prohibited by

> ederal regulation. Unauthorized release of medical information may result in

> dministrative, civil and criminal sanctions.

>

> Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> ------------------------------------

> In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline and

> our location or else your message will not be approved to send to the full

> roup.

> Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat to our

> rofessions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model practices. The

> escription of PTManager group includes the following:

> PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices ONLY "

> essages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

APTA,

> OTA or ASHA and participate now!

> Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> TManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> ahoo! Groups Links

> Individual Email | Traditional

> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Excellent post Trevor, obviously different settings produce different demands

but in the outpatient setting there is nothing that a liscensed director can do

that will generate more revenue than using that liscense to treat patients. I

am very fortunate to have a practice manager that I trust to handle the

administrative demands of the office, she is not liscensed but is married to and

lives with a PT (me) so she recognizes the demands if the profession. She also

doesn't get paid nearly what she is worth but that is more a reality of

reimbursement. I don't know how our facility would survive if I had to pay a PT

salary to a PT who wasn't treating patients.

E s, PT, DPT, OCS, FAAOMPT

www.douglasspt.com

>

> I think in the world of decreasing reimbursement and slimmer margins, licensed

clinicians need to look at their job demands and decide if they are the most

appropriate staff member to be performing that function? Should a licensed

clinician be performing hand hygiene monitoring or can this be delegated to

someone else. Does the license clinician need to be developing all of the

reports or can the front office and then review the data as a group. Can

someone else in the hospital system hired to do QA full time take some of the

responsibility? If we are not seeing patients, we are increasing the over head.

It does take the right staff and is hard to do both. I also realize this can

not be the case in all settings and that I have a great staff that allows me to

do both. It is just food for thought.

>

> Trevor Huffman P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.,C.

> Board Certified Sports Physical Therapist

> Director of Rehabilitation Services

> Passavant Area Hospital

> ville, IL 62650

> trevor.huffman@...

> ________________________________

> From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf

Of edobski@...

> Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:00 PM

> To: PTManager

> Subject: Re: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load

?

>

>

>

> Well said, Carol and Dick.

>

> In traversing the country and speaking with leaders throughout all rehab

practice areas, 80-90% carry some type of patient load. Very common.

> Speaking from a healthcare-hospital based perspective: It is very difficult,

if not impossible, to wear both hats on a daily basis and perform at one's best.

>

> Many therapists are pulled regularly to patient care due to the staffing

challenge of the day- whether census fluctuation, PTO, associate illness,

" walk-in " client, etc.

> As a result, the " less urgent " work that Carol portrays is pushed off to the

evenings or weekends or lunch or 630 AM meeting or, not completed at all. As an

" exempt " employee, we can work as

> may hours as we want- lucky us! As noted, working in patient care provides the

value of being in touch with our team and learning new perspectives that we

would not otherwise see being

> behind the desk or in a meeting. Of course, most patients appreciate us and

give us the warm fuzzy. Not the same feeling in leading and managing others!

>

> I remember very vividly during one of my numerous computer " go live " events on

a Sunday being " thanked " by the COO (my boss's boss) for being on the floor

supporting the team and helping to

> see patients. I thought I was going to VOMI _ (be ill). Little did he know

that I had working the past YEAR on almost each Sunday, all day, due to a

prolonged staffing shortage.

>

> When we are not at the table, in meetings that discuss system strategy, or

budgets, or new policies, or capital, or FTEs, or countless other information

details, or have the time

> to network and build relationships with executives, physicians, nurses,

pharmacists, RTs, CFOs, or sending emails, communicating with our elected

officials, etc. in the long term,

> our rehab and PT presence suffers.

>

> Carol, you forgot one thing :)

> We are now in charge and accountable for our associates' engagement. I love

it!

>

> Ed Dobrzykowski, PT, DPT, ATC, MHS

> System Director, Rehab Services and Sports Medicine

> St. Healthcare

> Edgewood, KY

>

> RE: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load

?

>

> respect the opinions of those who feel that to be a good manager one must be

> ut there carrying a patient load with the rest of their staff, but I also

think

> hat managers can be in touch with what's going on without necessarily needing

> o be consistently carrying a patient load. Depending upon the organizational

> tructure and expectations, I would go so far as to say it is unrealistic to

> xpect that be the case when managing a large number of staff at multiple

> linics and cost centers.. We are expected to be out on the floors every day

> rounding " with staff, patients, and their families to gain feedback for

> ecision making. Then there are the safety initiatives in which we are expected

> o be doing data submission of observations of hand hygiene and other infection

> ontrol practices compliance. Financially, in addition to budget development

> nd monitoring, we are doing daily productivity data submission for comparison

> ith our Premier Group Peers. Then there is the In

> formation piece and participation in efforts to continually improve our

> lectronic documentation tools, to hopefully increase staff efficiencies and

> ocumentation quality. More recently we have started doing our staff annual

> eviews all to be completed within a 2 month period, with " differential

> onversations " to occur again with all staff 6 months later in addition to the

> aily rounding. We all take on additional committee and task force

> esponsibilities that require our involvement not only within our main medical

> enter but others throughout the health system, many of which require a

> ignificant time commitment. Also we are expected to participate in Leadership

> evelopment training and presentations that are held on a regular basis for all

> taff at manager level on up. Add to that program development in addition to

> he normal budget, hiring, staff scheduling oversight, and everything else that

> s involved with effectively managing a department as we strive to be a t

> op decile performer.

> Carol Rehder, PT

> anager, Physical Therapy

> enesis Medical Center

> 563) 421-1475

> ehder@...<mailto:ehder%40genesishealth.com>

>

> J.D. Power and Associates

> istinguished Hospital for providing

> An Outstanding Patient Experience "

> >>> " Matt Dvorak " <mdvorak@...<mailto:mdvorak%40SDLCSH.COM>> 7/18/2011 1:30 PM

>>>

> at,

> am talking from experience only, but feel that in order to properly understand

> he needs of your staff, you ought to be one. That includes weekends, holidays,

> leaning the equipments, etc. as needed. I wouldn't expect anyone to respect a

> irector or administrator if they wouldn't do the same for the organization

that

> hey expect a staff member to do. I like making decisions as to the direction

> y department goes in, but want to be a part of it as well.

> att Dvorak, PT

> ankton, SD

> ________________________________

> From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf

of nits_physio

> ent: Sun 7/17/2011 10:46 AM

> o: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> ubject: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

>

> A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two administrators

> verseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff strength around 9-12

> ncluding PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

> My questions to the group...

> In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

> Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient care

> esponsibilities ?

> Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to carry a

> 5-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively small.

> More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

> eferred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a compulsory

> atient load ..

> and

> what is the average percentage of case load that administrative/supervisory

> taff must carry ?

> Thanks

> at

> I

>

> Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> ------------------------------------

> In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline and

> our location or else your message will not be approved to send to the full

> roup.

> Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat to our

> rofessions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model practices. The

> escription of PTManager group includes the following:

> PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices ONLY "

> essages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

APTA,

> OTA or ASHA and participate now!

> Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> TManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> ahoo! Groups Links

>

> OTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or

> ntity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,

> onfidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of

> his communication is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent

> esponsible for delivering the communication, you are hereby notified that any

> issemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly

> rohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me

> mmediately by replying to this email.

> REMINDER: The disclosure of medical information is strictly prohibited by

> ederal regulation. Unauthorized release of medical information may result in

> dministrative, civil and criminal sanctions.

>

> Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> ------------------------------------

> In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline and

> our location or else your message will not be approved to send to the full

> roup.

> Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat to our

> rofessions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model practices. The

> escription of PTManager group includes the following:

> PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices ONLY "

> essages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

APTA,

> OTA or ASHA and participate now!

> Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> TManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> ahoo! Groups Links

> Individual Email | Traditional

> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

It is certainly good for administrators to maintain their clinical skills and

competencies by treating patients but the setting and strategic plan will

dictate reality.  Some believe the administrator needs to be the superhero PT

with all of the specialty certs, etc., to gain the respect and following of the

staff.  I don't agree.  These are the cases in which I've seen the super PT

administrator (no disrespect intended with my word selection) decline to address

admin responsibilities because of backlogged patients, incoming referrals, or

other pressing clinical issues.  This is fire fighting and will continue ad

nauseum unless there is time for practice adjustment, policy/procedure

reconsideration, resource balancing, etc. 

If it is a turn around project, time devoted to patient care can delay needed

clinic gains across multiple staff.  You can either be a superhuman and work

150% yourself or squeeze an extra 10% of productivity out of 15 therapists in a

weakly performing setting.  If it is a stable environment with high

productivity and clean routines--then certainly the admin can jump in to the

extent able.  

Problems arise when those scenarios are reverse...when an admin coasts in a

stable environment OR when an admin treats-treats-treats in an organization that

desperately needs business leadership. 

Alan Petrazzi, MPT, MPMRehab DirectorPittsburgh, PA

Subject: Re: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

To: PTManager

Date: Tuesday, July 19, 2011, 8:14 PM

 

Excellent post Trevor, obviously different settings produce different

demands but in the outpatient setting there is nothing that a liscensed director

can do that will generate more revenue than using that liscense to treat

patients. I am very fortunate to have a practice manager that I trust to handle

the administrative demands of the office, she is not liscensed but is married to

and lives with a PT (me) so she recognizes the demands if the profession. She

also doesn't get paid nearly what she is worth but that is more a reality of

reimbursement. I don't know how our facility would survive if I had to pay a PT

salary to a PT who wasn't treating patients.

E s, PT, DPT, OCS, FAAOMPT

www.douglasspt.com

>

> I think in the world of decreasing reimbursement and slimmer margins, licensed

clinicians need to look at their job demands and decide if they are the most

appropriate staff member to be performing that function? Should a licensed

clinician be performing hand hygiene monitoring or can this be delegated to

someone else. Does the license clinician need to be developing all of the

reports or can the front office and then review the data as a group. Can

someone else in the hospital system hired to do QA full time take some of the

responsibility? If we are not seeing patients, we are increasing the over head.

It does take the right staff and is hard to do both. I also realize this can

not be the case in all settings and that I have a great staff that allows me to

do both. It is just food for thought.

>

> Trevor Huffman P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.,C.

> Board Certified Sports Physical Therapist

> Director of Rehabilitation Services

> Passavant Area Hospital

> ville, IL 62650

> trevor.huffman@...

> ________________________________

> From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf

Of edobski@...

> Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:00 PM

> To: PTManager

> Subject: Re: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load

?

>

>

>

> Well said, Carol and Dick.

>

> In traversing the country and speaking with leaders throughout all rehab

practice areas, 80-90% carry some type of patient load. Very common.

> Speaking from a healthcare-hospital based perspective: It is very difficult,

if not impossible, to wear both hats on a daily basis and perform at one's best.

>

> Many therapists are pulled regularly to patient care due to the staffing

challenge of the day- whether census fluctuation, PTO, associate illness,

" walk-in " client, etc.

> As a result, the " less urgent " work that Carol portrays is pushed off to the

evenings or weekends or lunch or 630 AM meeting or, not completed at all. As an

" exempt " employee, we can work as

> may hours as we want- lucky us! As noted, working in patient care provides the

value of being in touch with our team and learning new perspectives that we

would not otherwise see being

> behind the desk or in a meeting. Of course, most patients appreciate us and

give us the warm fuzzy. Not the same feeling in leading and managing others!

>

> I remember very vividly during one of my numerous computer " go live " events on

a Sunday being " thanked " by the COO (my boss's boss) for being on the floor

supporting the team and helping to

> see patients. I thought I was going to VOMI _ (be ill). Little did he know

that I had working the past YEAR on almost each Sunday, all day, due to a

prolonged staffing shortage.

>

> When we are not at the table, in meetings that discuss system strategy, or

budgets, or new policies, or capital, or FTEs, or countless other information

details, or have the time

> to network and build relationships with executives, physicians, nurses,

pharmacists, RTs, CFOs, or sending emails, communicating with our elected

officials, etc. in the long term,

> our rehab and PT presence suffers.

>

> Carol, you forgot one thing :)

> We are now in charge and accountable for our associates' engagement. I love

it!

>

> Ed Dobrzykowski, PT, DPT, ATC, MHS

> System Director, Rehab Services and Sports Medicine

> St. Healthcare

> Edgewood, KY

>

> RE: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load

?

>

> respect the opinions of those who feel that to be a good manager one must be

> ut there carrying a patient load with the rest of their staff, but I also

think

> hat managers can be in touch with what's going on without necessarily needing

> o be consistently carrying a patient load. Depending upon the organizational

> tructure and expectations, I would go so far as to say it is unrealistic to

> xpect that be the case when managing a large number of staff at multiple

> linics and cost centers.. We are expected to be out on the floors every day

> rounding " with staff, patients, and their families to gain feedback for

> ecision making. Then there are the safety initiatives in which we are expected

> o be doing data submission of observations of hand hygiene and other infection

> ontrol practices compliance. Financially, in addition to budget development

> nd monitoring, we are doing daily productivity data submission for comparison

> ith our Premier Group Peers. Then there is the In

> formation piece and participation in efforts to continually improve our

> lectronic documentation tools, to hopefully increase staff efficiencies and

> ocumentation quality. More recently we have started doing our staff annual

> eviews all to be completed within a 2 month period, with " differential

> onversations " to occur again with all staff 6 months later in addition to the

> aily rounding. We all take on additional committee and task force

> esponsibilities that require our involvement not only within our main medical

> enter but others throughout the health system, many of which require a

> ignificant time commitment. Also we are expected to participate in Leadership

> evelopment training and presentations that are held on a regular basis for all

> taff at manager level on up. Add to that program development in addition to

> he normal budget, hiring, staff scheduling oversight, and everything else that

> s involved with effectively managing a department as we strive to be a t

> op decile performer.

> Carol Rehder, PT

> anager, Physical Therapy

> enesis Medical Center

> 563) 421-1475

> ehder@...<mailto:ehder%40genesishealth.com>

>

> J.D. Power and Associates

> istinguished Hospital for providing

> An Outstanding Patient Experience "

> >>> " Matt Dvorak " <mdvorak@...<mailto:mdvorak%40SDLCSH.COM>> 7/18/2011 1:30 PM

>>>

> at,

> am talking from experience only, but feel that in order to properly understand

> he needs of your staff, you ought to be one. That includes weekends, holidays,

> leaning the equipments, etc. as needed. I wouldn't expect anyone to respect a

> irector or administrator if they wouldn't do the same for the organization

that

> hey expect a staff member to do. I like making decisions as to the direction

> y department goes in, but want to be a part of it as well.

> att Dvorak, PT

> ankton, SD

> ________________________________

> From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf

of nits_physio

> ent: Sun 7/17/2011 10:46 AM

> o: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> ubject: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

>

> A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two administrators

> verseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff strength around 9-12

> ncluding PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

> My questions to the group...

> In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

> Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient care

> esponsibilities ?

> Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to carry a

> 5-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively small.

> More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

> eferred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a compulsory

> atient load ..

> and

> what is the average percentage of case load that administrative/supervisory

> taff must carry ?

> Thanks

> at

> I

>

> Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> ------------------------------------

> In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline and

> our location or else your message will not be approved to send to the full

> roup.

> Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat to our

> rofessions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model practices. The

> escription of PTManager group includes the following:

> PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices ONLY "

> essages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

APTA,

> OTA or ASHA and participate now!

> Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> TManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> ahoo! Groups Links

>

> OTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or

> ntity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,

> onfidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of

> his communication is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent

> esponsible for delivering the communication, you are hereby notified that any

> issemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly

> rohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me

> mmediately by replying to this email.

> REMINDER: The disclosure of medical information is strictly prohibited by

> ederal regulation. Unauthorized release of medical information may result in

> dministrative, civil and criminal sanctions.

>

> Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> ------------------------------------

> In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline and

> our location or else your message will not be approved to send to the full

> roup.

> Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat to our

> rofessions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model practices. The

> escription of PTManager group includes the following:

> PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices ONLY "

> essages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

APTA,

> OTA or ASHA and participate now!

> Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> TManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> ahoo! Groups Links

> Individual Email | Traditional

> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>

>

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Share on other sites
Guest guest

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Posted
Posted

It is certainly good for administrators to maintain their clinical skills and

competencies by treating patients but the setting and strategic plan will

dictate reality.  Some believe the administrator needs to be the superhero PT

with all of the specialty certs, etc., to gain the respect and following of the

staff.  I don't agree.  These are the cases in which I've seen the super PT

administrator (no disrespect intended with my word selection) decline to address

admin responsibilities because of backlogged patients, incoming referrals, or

other pressing clinical issues.  This is fire fighting and will continue ad

nauseum unless there is time for practice adjustment, policy/procedure

reconsideration, resource balancing, etc. 

If it is a turn around project, time devoted to patient care can delay needed

clinic gains across multiple staff.  You can either be a superhuman and work

150% yourself or squeeze an extra 10% of productivity out of 15 therapists in a

weakly performing setting.  If it is a stable environment with high

productivity and clean routines--then certainly the admin can jump in to the

extent able.  

Problems arise when those scenarios are reverse...when an admin coasts in a

stable environment OR when an admin treats-treats-treats in an organization that

desperately needs business leadership. 

Alan Petrazzi, MPT, MPMRehab DirectorPittsburgh, PA

Subject: Re: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

To: PTManager

Date: Tuesday, July 19, 2011, 8:14 PM

 

Excellent post Trevor, obviously different settings produce different

demands but in the outpatient setting there is nothing that a liscensed director

can do that will generate more revenue than using that liscense to treat

patients. I am very fortunate to have a practice manager that I trust to handle

the administrative demands of the office, she is not liscensed but is married to

and lives with a PT (me) so she recognizes the demands if the profession. She

also doesn't get paid nearly what she is worth but that is more a reality of

reimbursement. I don't know how our facility would survive if I had to pay a PT

salary to a PT who wasn't treating patients.

E s, PT, DPT, OCS, FAAOMPT

www.douglasspt.com

>

> I think in the world of decreasing reimbursement and slimmer margins, licensed

clinicians need to look at their job demands and decide if they are the most

appropriate staff member to be performing that function? Should a licensed

clinician be performing hand hygiene monitoring or can this be delegated to

someone else. Does the license clinician need to be developing all of the

reports or can the front office and then review the data as a group. Can

someone else in the hospital system hired to do QA full time take some of the

responsibility? If we are not seeing patients, we are increasing the over head.

It does take the right staff and is hard to do both. I also realize this can

not be the case in all settings and that I have a great staff that allows me to

do both. It is just food for thought.

>

> Trevor Huffman P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.,C.

> Board Certified Sports Physical Therapist

> Director of Rehabilitation Services

> Passavant Area Hospital

> ville, IL 62650

> trevor.huffman@...

> ________________________________

> From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf

Of edobski@...

> Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:00 PM

> To: PTManager

> Subject: Re: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load

?

>

>

>

> Well said, Carol and Dick.

>

> In traversing the country and speaking with leaders throughout all rehab

practice areas, 80-90% carry some type of patient load. Very common.

> Speaking from a healthcare-hospital based perspective: It is very difficult,

if not impossible, to wear both hats on a daily basis and perform at one's best.

>

> Many therapists are pulled regularly to patient care due to the staffing

challenge of the day- whether census fluctuation, PTO, associate illness,

" walk-in " client, etc.

> As a result, the " less urgent " work that Carol portrays is pushed off to the

evenings or weekends or lunch or 630 AM meeting or, not completed at all. As an

" exempt " employee, we can work as

> may hours as we want- lucky us! As noted, working in patient care provides the

value of being in touch with our team and learning new perspectives that we

would not otherwise see being

> behind the desk or in a meeting. Of course, most patients appreciate us and

give us the warm fuzzy. Not the same feeling in leading and managing others!

>

> I remember very vividly during one of my numerous computer " go live " events on

a Sunday being " thanked " by the COO (my boss's boss) for being on the floor

supporting the team and helping to

> see patients. I thought I was going to VOMI _ (be ill). Little did he know

that I had working the past YEAR on almost each Sunday, all day, due to a

prolonged staffing shortage.

>

> When we are not at the table, in meetings that discuss system strategy, or

budgets, or new policies, or capital, or FTEs, or countless other information

details, or have the time

> to network and build relationships with executives, physicians, nurses,

pharmacists, RTs, CFOs, or sending emails, communicating with our elected

officials, etc. in the long term,

> our rehab and PT presence suffers.

>

> Carol, you forgot one thing :)

> We are now in charge and accountable for our associates' engagement. I love

it!

>

> Ed Dobrzykowski, PT, DPT, ATC, MHS

> System Director, Rehab Services and Sports Medicine

> St. Healthcare

> Edgewood, KY

>

> RE: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load

?

>

> respect the opinions of those who feel that to be a good manager one must be

> ut there carrying a patient load with the rest of their staff, but I also

think

> hat managers can be in touch with what's going on without necessarily needing

> o be consistently carrying a patient load. Depending upon the organizational

> tructure and expectations, I would go so far as to say it is unrealistic to

> xpect that be the case when managing a large number of staff at multiple

> linics and cost centers.. We are expected to be out on the floors every day

> rounding " with staff, patients, and their families to gain feedback for

> ecision making. Then there are the safety initiatives in which we are expected

> o be doing data submission of observations of hand hygiene and other infection

> ontrol practices compliance. Financially, in addition to budget development

> nd monitoring, we are doing daily productivity data submission for comparison

> ith our Premier Group Peers. Then there is the In

> formation piece and participation in efforts to continually improve our

> lectronic documentation tools, to hopefully increase staff efficiencies and

> ocumentation quality. More recently we have started doing our staff annual

> eviews all to be completed within a 2 month period, with " differential

> onversations " to occur again with all staff 6 months later in addition to the

> aily rounding. We all take on additional committee and task force

> esponsibilities that require our involvement not only within our main medical

> enter but others throughout the health system, many of which require a

> ignificant time commitment. Also we are expected to participate in Leadership

> evelopment training and presentations that are held on a regular basis for all

> taff at manager level on up. Add to that program development in addition to

> he normal budget, hiring, staff scheduling oversight, and everything else that

> s involved with effectively managing a department as we strive to be a t

> op decile performer.

> Carol Rehder, PT

> anager, Physical Therapy

> enesis Medical Center

> 563) 421-1475

> ehder@...<mailto:ehder%40genesishealth.com>

>

> J.D. Power and Associates

> istinguished Hospital for providing

> An Outstanding Patient Experience "

> >>> " Matt Dvorak " <mdvorak@...<mailto:mdvorak%40SDLCSH.COM>> 7/18/2011 1:30 PM

>>>

> at,

> am talking from experience only, but feel that in order to properly understand

> he needs of your staff, you ought to be one. That includes weekends, holidays,

> leaning the equipments, etc. as needed. I wouldn't expect anyone to respect a

> irector or administrator if they wouldn't do the same for the organization

that

> hey expect a staff member to do. I like making decisions as to the direction

> y department goes in, but want to be a part of it as well.

> att Dvorak, PT

> ankton, SD

> ________________________________

> From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf

of nits_physio

> ent: Sun 7/17/2011 10:46 AM

> o: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> ubject: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

>

> A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two administrators

> verseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff strength around 9-12

> ncluding PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

> My questions to the group...

> In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

> Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient care

> esponsibilities ?

> Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to carry a

> 5-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively small.

> More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

> eferred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a compulsory

> atient load ..

> and

> what is the average percentage of case load that administrative/supervisory

> taff must carry ?

> Thanks

> at

> I

>

> Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> ------------------------------------

> In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline and

> our location or else your message will not be approved to send to the full

> roup.

> Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat to our

> rofessions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model practices. The

> escription of PTManager group includes the following:

> PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices ONLY "

> essages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

APTA,

> OTA or ASHA and participate now!

> Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> TManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> ahoo! Groups Links

>

> OTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or

> ntity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,

> onfidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of

> his communication is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent

> esponsible for delivering the communication, you are hereby notified that any

> issemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly

> rohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me

> mmediately by replying to this email.

> REMINDER: The disclosure of medical information is strictly prohibited by

> ederal regulation. Unauthorized release of medical information may result in

> dministrative, civil and criminal sanctions.

>

> Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> ------------------------------------

> In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline and

> our location or else your message will not be approved to send to the full

> roup.

> Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat to our

> rofessions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model practices. The

> escription of PTManager group includes the following:

> PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices ONLY "

> essages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

APTA,

> OTA or ASHA and participate now!

> Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> TManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> ahoo! Groups Links

> Individual Email | Traditional

> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

It is certainly good for administrators to maintain their clinical skills and

competencies by treating patients but the setting and strategic plan will

dictate reality.  Some believe the administrator needs to be the superhero PT

with all of the specialty certs, etc., to gain the respect and following of the

staff.  I don't agree.  These are the cases in which I've seen the super PT

administrator (no disrespect intended with my word selection) decline to address

admin responsibilities because of backlogged patients, incoming referrals, or

other pressing clinical issues.  This is fire fighting and will continue ad

nauseum unless there is time for practice adjustment, policy/procedure

reconsideration, resource balancing, etc. 

If it is a turn around project, time devoted to patient care can delay needed

clinic gains across multiple staff.  You can either be a superhuman and work

150% yourself or squeeze an extra 10% of productivity out of 15 therapists in a

weakly performing setting.  If it is a stable environment with high

productivity and clean routines--then certainly the admin can jump in to the

extent able.  

Problems arise when those scenarios are reverse...when an admin coasts in a

stable environment OR when an admin treats-treats-treats in an organization that

desperately needs business leadership. 

Alan Petrazzi, MPT, MPMRehab DirectorPittsburgh, PA

Subject: Re: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

To: PTManager

Date: Tuesday, July 19, 2011, 8:14 PM

 

Excellent post Trevor, obviously different settings produce different

demands but in the outpatient setting there is nothing that a liscensed director

can do that will generate more revenue than using that liscense to treat

patients. I am very fortunate to have a practice manager that I trust to handle

the administrative demands of the office, she is not liscensed but is married to

and lives with a PT (me) so she recognizes the demands if the profession. She

also doesn't get paid nearly what she is worth but that is more a reality of

reimbursement. I don't know how our facility would survive if I had to pay a PT

salary to a PT who wasn't treating patients.

E s, PT, DPT, OCS, FAAOMPT

www.douglasspt.com

>

> I think in the world of decreasing reimbursement and slimmer margins, licensed

clinicians need to look at their job demands and decide if they are the most

appropriate staff member to be performing that function? Should a licensed

clinician be performing hand hygiene monitoring or can this be delegated to

someone else. Does the license clinician need to be developing all of the

reports or can the front office and then review the data as a group. Can

someone else in the hospital system hired to do QA full time take some of the

responsibility? If we are not seeing patients, we are increasing the over head.

It does take the right staff and is hard to do both. I also realize this can

not be the case in all settings and that I have a great staff that allows me to

do both. It is just food for thought.

>

> Trevor Huffman P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.,C.

> Board Certified Sports Physical Therapist

> Director of Rehabilitation Services

> Passavant Area Hospital

> ville, IL 62650

> trevor.huffman@...

> ________________________________

> From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf

Of edobski@...

> Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:00 PM

> To: PTManager

> Subject: Re: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load

?

>

>

>

> Well said, Carol and Dick.

>

> In traversing the country and speaking with leaders throughout all rehab

practice areas, 80-90% carry some type of patient load. Very common.

> Speaking from a healthcare-hospital based perspective: It is very difficult,

if not impossible, to wear both hats on a daily basis and perform at one's best.

>

> Many therapists are pulled regularly to patient care due to the staffing

challenge of the day- whether census fluctuation, PTO, associate illness,

" walk-in " client, etc.

> As a result, the " less urgent " work that Carol portrays is pushed off to the

evenings or weekends or lunch or 630 AM meeting or, not completed at all. As an

" exempt " employee, we can work as

> may hours as we want- lucky us! As noted, working in patient care provides the

value of being in touch with our team and learning new perspectives that we

would not otherwise see being

> behind the desk or in a meeting. Of course, most patients appreciate us and

give us the warm fuzzy. Not the same feeling in leading and managing others!

>

> I remember very vividly during one of my numerous computer " go live " events on

a Sunday being " thanked " by the COO (my boss's boss) for being on the floor

supporting the team and helping to

> see patients. I thought I was going to VOMI _ (be ill). Little did he know

that I had working the past YEAR on almost each Sunday, all day, due to a

prolonged staffing shortage.

>

> When we are not at the table, in meetings that discuss system strategy, or

budgets, or new policies, or capital, or FTEs, or countless other information

details, or have the time

> to network and build relationships with executives, physicians, nurses,

pharmacists, RTs, CFOs, or sending emails, communicating with our elected

officials, etc. in the long term,

> our rehab and PT presence suffers.

>

> Carol, you forgot one thing :)

> We are now in charge and accountable for our associates' engagement. I love

it!

>

> Ed Dobrzykowski, PT, DPT, ATC, MHS

> System Director, Rehab Services and Sports Medicine

> St. Healthcare

> Edgewood, KY

>

> RE: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load

?

>

> respect the opinions of those who feel that to be a good manager one must be

> ut there carrying a patient load with the rest of their staff, but I also

think

> hat managers can be in touch with what's going on without necessarily needing

> o be consistently carrying a patient load. Depending upon the organizational

> tructure and expectations, I would go so far as to say it is unrealistic to

> xpect that be the case when managing a large number of staff at multiple

> linics and cost centers.. We are expected to be out on the floors every day

> rounding " with staff, patients, and their families to gain feedback for

> ecision making. Then there are the safety initiatives in which we are expected

> o be doing data submission of observations of hand hygiene and other infection

> ontrol practices compliance. Financially, in addition to budget development

> nd monitoring, we are doing daily productivity data submission for comparison

> ith our Premier Group Peers. Then there is the In

> formation piece and participation in efforts to continually improve our

> lectronic documentation tools, to hopefully increase staff efficiencies and

> ocumentation quality. More recently we have started doing our staff annual

> eviews all to be completed within a 2 month period, with " differential

> onversations " to occur again with all staff 6 months later in addition to the

> aily rounding. We all take on additional committee and task force

> esponsibilities that require our involvement not only within our main medical

> enter but others throughout the health system, many of which require a

> ignificant time commitment. Also we are expected to participate in Leadership

> evelopment training and presentations that are held on a regular basis for all

> taff at manager level on up. Add to that program development in addition to

> he normal budget, hiring, staff scheduling oversight, and everything else that

> s involved with effectively managing a department as we strive to be a t

> op decile performer.

> Carol Rehder, PT

> anager, Physical Therapy

> enesis Medical Center

> 563) 421-1475

> ehder@...<mailto:ehder%40genesishealth.com>

>

> J.D. Power and Associates

> istinguished Hospital for providing

> An Outstanding Patient Experience "

> >>> " Matt Dvorak " <mdvorak@...<mailto:mdvorak%40SDLCSH.COM>> 7/18/2011 1:30 PM

>>>

> at,

> am talking from experience only, but feel that in order to properly understand

> he needs of your staff, you ought to be one. That includes weekends, holidays,

> leaning the equipments, etc. as needed. I wouldn't expect anyone to respect a

> irector or administrator if they wouldn't do the same for the organization

that

> hey expect a staff member to do. I like making decisions as to the direction

> y department goes in, but want to be a part of it as well.

> att Dvorak, PT

> ankton, SD

> ________________________________

> From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf

of nits_physio

> ent: Sun 7/17/2011 10:46 AM

> o: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

> ubject: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

>

> A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two administrators

> verseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff strength around 9-12

> ncluding PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

> My questions to the group...

> In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

> Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient care

> esponsibilities ?

> Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to carry a

> 5-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively small.

> More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

> eferred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a compulsory

> atient load ..

> and

> what is the average percentage of case load that administrative/supervisory

> taff must carry ?

> Thanks

> at

> I

>

> Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> ------------------------------------

> In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline and

> our location or else your message will not be approved to send to the full

> roup.

> Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat to our

> rofessions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model practices. The

> escription of PTManager group includes the following:

> PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices ONLY "

> essages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

APTA,

> OTA or ASHA and participate now!

> Follow Kovacek, PT on Facebook or Twitter.

> TManager blog: http://ptmanager.posterous.com/

> ahoo! Groups Links

>

> OTICE: This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or

> ntity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,

> onfidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of

> his communication is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent

> esponsible for delivering the communication, you are hereby notified that any

> issemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly

> rohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me

> mmediately by replying to this email.

> REMINDER: The disclosure of medical information is strictly prohibited by

> ederal regulation. Unauthorized release of medical information may result in

> dministrative, civil and criminal sanctions.

>

> Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> ------------------------------------

> In ALL messages to PTManager you must identify yourself, your discipline and

> our location or else your message will not be approved to send to the full

> roup.

> Physician Self Referal/Referral for Profit {POPTS} is a serious threat to our

> rofessions. PTManager is not available to support POPTS-model practices. The

> escription of PTManager group includes the following:

> PTManager believes in and supports Therapist-owned Therapy Practices ONLY "

> essages relating to " how to set up a POPTS " will not be approved

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APTA,

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Posted
Posted

To all who believe you need to work as a staff to be a good manager. Please let

me know how you work as an OT or SLP or a PTA so you can be a good manager to

them.

As for me, I have managed MD's, NP's, PA's, nurses, dietitian, massage

therapists as well at PT, OT, SLP not to mention the many support type people

needed. I have not walked in any of their shoes except PT so I must be a poor

manager. (tongue in cheek please, no offense meant)

Marc Lacroix, PT

Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two administrators

overseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff strength around 9-12

including PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

My questions to the group...

In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient care

responsibilities ?

Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to carry a

25-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively small.

More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

referred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a compulsory

patient load ..

and

what is the average percentage of case load that administrative/supervisory

staff must carry ?

Thanks

Nat

MI

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Posted

Absolutely well stated!

Some respect is earned, professionally speaking, and to some extent respect in

society or a professional society should also be a given!

And it’s the entitlement mentality that often “stirs the pot!â€

E. Lynn MS PT

Director of Rehabilitation

Marlton Rehabilitation Hospital

92 Brick Rd.

Marlton, NJ 08055

ext 4204

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of

Malacroix@...

Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 10:20 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

To all who believe you need to work as a staff to be a good manager. Please let

me know how you work as an OT or SLP or a PTA so you can be a good manager to

them.

As for me, I have managed MD's, NP's, PA's, nurses, dietitian, massage

therapists as well at PT, OT, SLP not to mention the many support type people

needed. I have not walked in any of their shoes except PT so I must be a poor

manager. (tongue in cheek please, no offense meant)

Marc Lacroix, PT

Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two administrators

overseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff strength around 9-12

including PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

My questions to the group...

In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient care

responsibilities ?

Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to carry a

25-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively small.

More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

referred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a compulsory

patient load ..

and

what is the average percentage of case load that administrative/supervisory

staff must carry ?

Thanks

Nat

MI

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Posted
Posted

I am a Director of Rehabilitation Services and ....yes.....I treat ....there I

said it!

If your organizational structure and size allows you to treat, I think you

should for many of the reasons mentioned.

Remember what Earl said in " Field of Dreams " when he was about to go

" out with the players " . when he was asked why he said he would write a book

about it " because...Its what I do! "

whether your a PT, OT, ST, MD first and foremost...its what we do.

How do others view themselves.... " Iam an administrator who is a PT/ST/OT/MD or

" Iam a PT/OT/ST/MD who is also

an administrator

the difference can be profound

Jim Dunleavy PT, MS

Trinitas Regional Medical Center

, NJ

Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two administrators

overseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff strength around 9-12

including PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

My questions to the group...

In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient care

responsibilities ?

Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to carry a

25-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively small.

More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

referred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a compulsory

patient load ..

and

what is the average percentage of case load that administrative/supervisory

staff must carry ?

Thanks

Nat

MI

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Guest guest

Posted
Posted

I am a Director of Rehabilitation Services and ....yes.....I treat ....there I

said it!

If your organizational structure and size allows you to treat, I think you

should for many of the reasons mentioned.

Remember what Earl said in " Field of Dreams " when he was about to go

" out with the players " . when he was asked why he said he would write a book

about it " because...Its what I do! "

whether your a PT, OT, ST, MD first and foremost...its what we do.

How do others view themselves.... " Iam an administrator who is a PT/ST/OT/MD or

" Iam a PT/OT/ST/MD who is also

an administrator

the difference can be profound

Jim Dunleavy PT, MS

Trinitas Regional Medical Center

, NJ

Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two administrators

overseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff strength around 9-12

including PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

My questions to the group...

In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient care

responsibilities ?

Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to carry a

25-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively small.

More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

referred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a compulsory

patient load ..

and

what is the average percentage of case load that administrative/supervisory

staff must carry ?

Thanks

Nat

MI

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Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

I am a Director of Rehabilitation Services and ....yes.....I treat ....there I

said it!

If your organizational structure and size allows you to treat, I think you

should for many of the reasons mentioned.

Remember what Earl said in " Field of Dreams " when he was about to go

" out with the players " . when he was asked why he said he would write a book

about it " because...Its what I do! "

whether your a PT, OT, ST, MD first and foremost...its what we do.

How do others view themselves.... " Iam an administrator who is a PT/ST/OT/MD or

" Iam a PT/OT/ST/MD who is also

an administrator

the difference can be profound

Jim Dunleavy PT, MS

Trinitas Regional Medical Center

, NJ

Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two administrators

overseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff strength around 9-12

including PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

My questions to the group...

In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient care

responsibilities ?

Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to carry a

25-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively small.

More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

referred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a compulsory

patient load ..

and

what is the average percentage of case load that administrative/supervisory

staff must carry ?

Thanks

Nat

MI

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Posted
Posted

Marc,

I think this post will be taken out of context.....I see it coming now, but here

it goes.... I have cleaned treatment rooms, transported patients, observed

modified barium swallow studies, helped with infant hearing screens, taped

ankles, dipped hands in parafin, faxed reports, transcribed notes, cleaned

bathrooms, attended football games with the ATC's, helped start patients with

modalities, take out garbage, repaired broken chairs, salted the sidewalks,

shoveled the snow, registered the patients, basically just doing whatever is

needed to be done. All the things that need to be done. Don't need a different

license to perform each of these duties. So yes, I have walked in shoes of

professionals other than my own. Just being a licensed PT doesn't limit me to

doing what needs to be done to help the rest of the staff do their job. I wear

many other hats than my " PT " one and that adds excitement as well as insight

into my job. There are many management styles, and I respect them all. My

style works for me, gets my staff behind what I impliment, and allows them " buy

in " with the department as well. I have lots of desk work like all managers,

but I like to be out working with the staff, greeting and working with the

patients, and doing the " health care thing " . I have seen many healthcare staff

become managers just because they don't want to do the " staff thing " anymore. I

have never met a " staffer " who had respect for this type of manager. I stay

after eveyone else has gone and come in at night. I don't ask for extra pay for

this. It's part of the job. I think Theodore Roosevelt stated once that- " each

man owes something back to his employer " , and also " the credit belongs to the

man who is actually in the arena " . I'm sure other presidents would disagree

with him and his style of leadership, but he seemed to get a few things done in

his time as President.

Matt Dvorak, PT

Yankton, SD

________________________________

From: PTManager on behalf of Malacroix@...

Sent: Wed 7/20/2011 9:20 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

To all who believe you need to work as a staff to be a good manager. Please let

me know how you work as an OT or SLP or a PTA so you can be a good manager to

them.

As for me, I have managed MD's, NP's, PA's, nurses, dietitian, massage

therapists as well at PT, OT, SLP not to mention the many support type people

needed. I have not walked in any of their shoes except PT so I must be a poor

manager. (tongue in cheek please, no offense meant)

Marc Lacroix, PT

Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two administrators

overseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff strength around 9-12

including PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

My questions to the group...

In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient care

responsibilities ?

Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to carry a

25-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively small.

More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

referred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a compulsory

patient load ..

and

what is the average percentage of case load that administrative/supervisory

staff must carry ?

Thanks

Nat

MI

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Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Marc,

I think this post will be taken out of context.....I see it coming now, but here

it goes.... I have cleaned treatment rooms, transported patients, observed

modified barium swallow studies, helped with infant hearing screens, taped

ankles, dipped hands in parafin, faxed reports, transcribed notes, cleaned

bathrooms, attended football games with the ATC's, helped start patients with

modalities, take out garbage, repaired broken chairs, salted the sidewalks,

shoveled the snow, registered the patients, basically just doing whatever is

needed to be done. All the things that need to be done. Don't need a different

license to perform each of these duties. So yes, I have walked in shoes of

professionals other than my own. Just being a licensed PT doesn't limit me to

doing what needs to be done to help the rest of the staff do their job. I wear

many other hats than my " PT " one and that adds excitement as well as insight

into my job. There are many management styles, and I respect them all. My

style works for me, gets my staff behind what I impliment, and allows them " buy

in " with the department as well. I have lots of desk work like all managers,

but I like to be out working with the staff, greeting and working with the

patients, and doing the " health care thing " . I have seen many healthcare staff

become managers just because they don't want to do the " staff thing " anymore. I

have never met a " staffer " who had respect for this type of manager. I stay

after eveyone else has gone and come in at night. I don't ask for extra pay for

this. It's part of the job. I think Theodore Roosevelt stated once that- " each

man owes something back to his employer " , and also " the credit belongs to the

man who is actually in the arena " . I'm sure other presidents would disagree

with him and his style of leadership, but he seemed to get a few things done in

his time as President.

Matt Dvorak, PT

Yankton, SD

________________________________

From: PTManager on behalf of Malacroix@...

Sent: Wed 7/20/2011 9:20 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

To all who believe you need to work as a staff to be a good manager. Please let

me know how you work as an OT or SLP or a PTA so you can be a good manager to

them.

As for me, I have managed MD's, NP's, PA's, nurses, dietitian, massage

therapists as well at PT, OT, SLP not to mention the many support type people

needed. I have not walked in any of their shoes except PT so I must be a poor

manager. (tongue in cheek please, no offense meant)

Marc Lacroix, PT

Should therapy admin staff must carry % patient load ?

A small facility. We planing to have two therapy teams and two administrators

overseeing these teams. Both therapy teams have staff strength around 9-12

including PTs, OTs, STs and assistants.

My questions to the group...

In these days of decreasing reimbursements and " do more with less "

Is it justified to have full time administrative staff with no patient care

responsibilities ?

Is it a reasonable expectation for administrative/supervisory staff to carry a

25-50% patient care load ? Specially if the teams are relatively small.

More importantly, is there an Industry standard or statistic that can be

referred to, to justify that administrative staff must carry a compulsory

patient load ..

and

what is the average percentage of case load that administrative/supervisory

staff must carry ?

Thanks

Nat

MI

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